Where will the redeemed spend the 7th millennium?

[Wingnut]

Wingnut,

 

You mentioned "future generations" more than once.  Do you BELIEVE that folks who survive the final 7 wrath plagues will go on to procreate? 

Another thought:  What about a dual prophecy, with application at the SC, and final full-fillment during the 8th millennium?  Not all features must apply to BOTH.

 

I do believe in procreation during the millennium.  Here is the proof

 

Isaiah 65:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

 

What this verse is saying is that anyone who dies at age 100 will be considered to have died as a child and must have been bad (and hence accursed).  All through the Millennium folks will be procreating.  Children will play on the hole of an asp, lion lay down with a lamb and child leading them both Is 11:6.

 

I see all prophecies we have discussed as referring to a specific time.  Eg Ezek 38-39 applies to one time, Rev 20 to another.  No features apply to both unless stated in the specific prophecy.

[Wingnut]

I don't believe the LORD is going to "intervene" to save Jerusalem (the great harlot) at the SC.  I think the City will burn, and will stay burned UNTIL the 8th millennium.  Just at the SC, the City called Jerusalem will be the seat of the Beast.  The citizens will be celebrating, because the "two witnesses" are dead.  I don't see much worth "saving" there. 

Now - if you're talking about Spiritual Jerusalem - the "bride of Christ" - that's not a physical place.  Those are the redeemed people of God.  And they certainly DON'T all live in the City that we today call Jerusalem. 

At the Gog/Magog Battle, I do believe that God will defend His City.  And it may actually end up within the New Jerusalem.  After all The New Jerusalem will cover ALL of the territory promised to Abraham.  The area covered by Ezekiel's Temple, OR covered by the Jerusalem of the 8th millennium wouldn't take up much room. 

This confuses me.  Everyone believes the LORD will return to Jerusalem and Armageddon.  That is where the final battle is.  

Jerusalem is also where Gog attacks and where Christ will rule from in the 8th millennium.  If you don't believe this then you have lost me.

[Wingnut]

I don't believe the LORD is going to "intervene" to save Jerusalem (the great harlot) at the SC.  I think the City will burn, and will stay burned UNTIL the 8th millennium.  Just at the SC, the City called Jerusalem will be the seat of the Beast.  The citizens will be celebrating, because the "two witnesses" are dead.  I don't see much worth "saving" there. 

Now - if you're talking about Spiritual Jerusalem - the "bride of Christ" - that's not a physical place.  Those are the redeemed people of God.  And they certainly DON'T all live in the City that we today call Jerusalem. 

At the Gog/Magog Battle, I do believe that God will defend His City.  And it may actually end up within the New Jerusalem.  After all The New Jerusalem will cover ALL of the territory promised to Abraham.  The area covered by Ezekiel's Temple, OR covered by the Jerusalem of the 8th millennium wouldn't take up much room. 

There is no "beloved city" other than Jerusalem.   It is where the LORD placed His name, now and forever.  But for the sake of my question it makes no difference to my argument.  The question remains how many future divine interventions are described in prophecy.  We need to know this before we can start assigning prophecy to the one or the other.  For most of us, this is an easy question.  

"Spiritual Jerusalem" or the "bride of Christ" is the New Jerusalem which comes down in Rev 21.  This is after the Gog destruction, and after the earth is purified with fire, after the lake of fire, after the last judgment etc.  If you believe events of Rev 21 precede and are mixed up with events of Rev 20, then all I can ask is why the perfect, pure and final city would come to an impure earth.  And Rev is chronological, so the moment you change the chronology, I know you are wrong. 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[8thdaypriest]

I do believe in procreation during the millennium.  Here is the proof

 

Isaiah 65:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

 

What this verse is saying is that anyone who dies at age 100 will be considered to have died as a child and must have been bad (and hence accursed).  All through the Millennium folks will be procreating.  Children will play on the hole of an asp, lion lay down with a lamb and child leading them both Is 11:6.

 

I see all prophecies we have discussed as referring to a specific time.  Eg Ezek 38-39 applies to one time, Rev 20 to another.  No features apply to both unless stated in the specific prophecy.

I believe that children will be resurrected at the 8th millennium, and the prophecies of Isaiah Cpt 11, and Isaiah 65:20, will be fulfilled THEN.  Women who have already conceived - and died with the babies in their wombs, will be resurrected, and their children BORN, during the 8th millennium.  But I don't believe there will be further conception.  That would prolong the sin-problem, waiting for more and more, and more individuals to mature enough to make their CHOICE.

Jesus said, "in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage".  That would mean - NO conception.  

People will live very long lives - just as they did before Noah's flood.  The one who dies "accursed" would be one who has been judged worthy of execution by the ruling "priests of God". 

Just my opinion.

[8thdaypriest]

There is no "beloved city" other than Jerusalem.   It is where the LORD placed His name, now and forever.  But for the sake of my question it makes no difference to my argument.  The question remains how many future divine interventions are described in prophecy.  We need to know this before we can start assigning prophecy to the one or the other.  For most of us, this is an easy question.  

"Spiritual Jerusalem" or the "bride of Christ" is the New Jerusalem which comes down in Rev 21.  This is after the Gog destruction, and after the earth is purified with fire, after the lake of fire, after the last judgment etc.  If you believe events of Rev 21 precede and are mixed up with events of Rev 20, then all I can ask is why the perfect, pure and final city would come to an impure earth.  And Rev is chronological, so the moment you change the chronology, I know you are wrong. 

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I don't believe that Gog/Magog come up to surround the Holy City New Jerusalem.  I don't believe THAT City will descend until the earth (and the people) are cleaned up and prepared to stand in the presence of God. 

There is an interim City, and an interim Temple (the one shown to Ezekiel).  There's no REASON for an interim Temple, unless there are people who are NOT YET READY to stand in the presence of God.  They still need a buffer.   The question:  Will that interim Temple exist during the 7th millennium, or the 8th millennium?

You're taking the 7th millennium argument.  I'm taking the argument for the 8th.  That makes a good discussion. 

I'm not sure that the Book of Revelation is strictly chronological.  Christ comes at the sixth seal (6:17).  He comes at the 7th trumpet (11:15-19).  He is described as sitting on the cloud, and reaps the "harvest of the earth" in 7 wrath plagues.  (14:14 to 16:21).  He is described again as riding a white horse and leading the armies of heaven (19:11-16) to tred the winepress of the wrath of Almighty God".

I think the prophecies give sweeping overviews, and then go back to give more details of various steps along the way.  Daniel - I believe - does this.  The four horns of Cpt 8, that come up in place of the one notable one, are the SAME POWERS represented by the "four beasts" in Cpt 7.  Daniel 7 gives the last great powers, and Daniel 8 widens the view, to see what lead up to those four powers, and what will follow. 

[8thdaypriest]

I'm moving this one over from the "Rapture" thread, cause it's more on this topic. 

The seventy years of Babylonian captivity during which the land lay desolate, were to fulfill 70 sabbatical years (rest years) which Israel had not kept.  Israel had been in rebellion for 490 years (2 Chron. 36:21).  The “rest” of desolation after the Babylonians destroyed “the land,” is a type (or symbolic prophecy) of the desolation which will come upon the whole earth, because men have forsaken the Law of the LORD.
    Leviticus 26:33-35  “I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.  Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land; then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.  As long as it lies desolate it shall rest – for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.”  

I thought Joe had a good comment.  Anciently there WERE people left in the land.  Does that point to people LEFT on the earth, who survive the last plagues?

What happened to Israel - being the TYPE for what happens to the whole world. 

The people LEFT in the land of Judea, (after the Babylonian destruction) were the poor.  They actually fled the land - to Egypt - taking the prophet Jeremiah with them (without his consent).  Israel was GONE from the land. 

[Wingnut]

I don't believe that Gog/Magog come up to surround the Holy City New Jerusalem.  I don't believe THAT City will descend until the earth (and the people) are cleaned up and prepared to stand in the presence of God. 

There is an interim City, and an interim Temple (the one shown to Ezekiel).  There's no REASON for an interim Temple, unless there are people who are NOT YET READY to stand in the presence of God.  They still need a buffer.   The question:  Will that interim Temple exist during the 7th millennium, or the 8th millennium?

You're taking the 7th millennium argument.  I'm taking the argument for the 8th.  That makes a good discussion. 

I'm not sure that the Book of Revelation is strictly chronological.  Christ comes at the sixth seal (6:17).  He comes at the 7th trumpet (11:15-19).  He is described as sitting on the cloud, and reaps the "harvest of the earth" in 7 wrath plagues.  (14:14 to 16:21).  He is described again as riding a white horse and leading the armies of heaven (19:11-16) to tred the winepress of the wrath of Almighty God".

I think the prophecies give sweeping overviews, and then go back to give more details of various steps along the way.  Daniel - I believe - does this.  The four horns of Cpt 8, that come up in place of the one notable one, are the SAME POWERS represented by the "four beasts" in Cpt 7.  Daniel 7 gives the last great powers, and Daniel 8 widens the view, to see what lead up to those four powers, and what will follow. 

I agree with everything you say above.  

[Wingnut]

One reason I believe there will be people on earth during the millennium is because, as I read the following verses, God promised it.

Genesis 8:20-22

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Here we see God promising that He will never smite the whole earth again, in spite of "the imagination of man's heart [being] evil from his youth".

To me that settles it.  Earth remains, seedtime and harvest remain....etc.

Or is God a sneaky Father who appears to promise one thing, but gets around His promise through a technicality in the wording.

Like, there will be no seedtime for a while so I can smite them all.

Or I promised not to utterly destroy them with a flood, BUT I did not promise not to utterly destroy them with giant hailstones.

If God were to play this wording game, I would have no faith in Him.  Neither would a child have any faith in a parent who promises to do something good for a child, and then backs out of that promise on a technicality.

We might look at Genesis 9 and say God specifically promises no more worldwide flood, but this does not negate what God says to Himself generally in Genesis 8:21.

Who's sin brought about the flood?  Man's.

Who did man primarily target in this flood, animals or man?  Man.

Who is God promising this to in this Book?  Man.

Who is the only one who can understand this promise? Man.

So when God says "neither will I again smite any more every thing living", to which "living thing" is this promise directed?  Man.

And, very clearly its a promise directed at earth, lest we try to make the excuse that the righteous will be in heaven.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Wingnut

[Wingnut]

Does this verse not PROMISE that all flesh will not be destroyed at Christ's second coming?

 

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The logic I see is this, if God did not shorten the end, all men would die.

But for the elect's sake God will shorten the end.

Only possible conclusion therefore - all men will not die in the end-time.

 

[Wingnut]

I'm moving this one over from the "Rapture" thread, cause it's more on this topic. 

The seventy years of Babylonian captivity during which the land lay desolate, were to fulfill 70 sabbatical years (rest years) which Israel had not kept.  Israel had been in rebellion for 490 years (2 Chron. 36:21).  The “rest” of desolation after the Babylonians destroyed “the land,” is a type (or symbolic prophecy) of the desolation which will come upon the whole earth, because men have forsaken the Law of the LORD.
    Leviticus 26:33-35  “I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.  Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land; then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.  As long as it lies desolate it shall rest – for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.”  

I thought Joe had a good comment.  Anciently there WERE people left in the land.  Does that point to people LEFT on the earth, who survive the last plagues?

What happened to Israel - being the TYPE for what happens to the whole world. 

The people LEFT in the land of Judea, (after the Babylonian destruction) were the poor.  They actually fled the land - to Egypt - taking the prophet Jeremiah with them (without his consent).  Israel was GONE from the land. 

The point about land sabbaths was not that during them everyone moved off the land.  People remained exactly where they were and ate food from the previous year (because God promised to bless them double in the 6th year).

The idea that the millennium is like a land sabbath would therefore not fit the type at all.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Wingnut

[Wingnut]

Rachel wrote...

IMO:  The "Beast" is a huge world-wide geopolitical system.  The BEAST is not just one man.  The BEAST has 7 heads - going back thru centuries and centuries.  To destroy ALL of the Beast, you would have to resurrect everyone who served the BEAST back thru the centuries.  And that would be a resurrection of the wicked, and then their destruction.  The FALSE PROPHET is - most probably a last day man, channeled by Satan Himself.  He could even be the counterfeit Christ.  

Wingnut replies:  I agree, with the addition that the Bible does call the end-time leader of this BEAST system "the beast".

Rachel replies:  I don't believe we will reign over anyone in Heaven.  I believe we will rule "the nations" for 1000 years DURING the 8th day - ON THIS EARTH.  I do not personally FEEL READY to "rule over" anyone.  And I've been studying the Bible and trying to walk with Christ for 37 years now-since I was 30.  I FEEL I would need preparation for some time, first.  

Rachel replies:  I believe there WILL BE a Battle, with Russia, and Muslims against the present state of Israel.  Satan has worked for centuries, to bring this about.  He is working to deceive the world into believing that He is Christ come - when He appears in the rebuilt Temple on the Mount. 

Wingnut replies: I agree with you here too.

Rachel writes further: In order to deceive folks who have read the prophecies, He must make it appear that prophecy HAS been fulfilled.  "Israel" must be "returned to the land (even though they never believed in Christ and in fact fight against Him, and have NOT surrendered their hearts to God).  Satan has to create an Antichrist, so that He can appear to vanquish said Antichrist and rescue "Israel".  Most folks have heard of the 7 last plagues.  So Satan has to make several last plagues, before He appears.  (I believe Satan's plagues will be the trumpets.)  The  Battle of Armageddon takes place under the sixth bowl.  Most folks have heard of it, even if they don't understand the specifics.  Evangelicals are teaching that Christ will defend "Israel" to vanquish the Antichrist.  They are saying that Armageddon IS Gog/Magog.  Satan is fomenting this coming Battle, so that he can appear to "save Israel".  The world will then accept HIM as Christ come. 

Wingnut replies: Interesting theory, and I respect all out-of-the-box thinking.  I believe the first 4 horsemen of the apocalypse are the plagues Satan sends on the earth, from which he pretends to be the "saviour" by stopping what he himself commanded.  But not before 1/4 of earth dies or nearly 2 billion people.

 Do you not think that Satan will present the 2 witnesses as Satanic since they are plaguing the world by cursing it with no rain for 3 years?

Do you have any ideas as to how Satan gets folks to accept his 666 mark which allows them to buy or sell? I do not see the mark of the Beast being primarily Sunday keeping since Sunday cannot be worn on hand or forehead.  Even "Sunday keepers" do not keep Sunday.  I think there would be huge resistance to enforcing any sabbath observance, and why would Satan bother to enforce one of the 10 commandments, even on the wrong day?

I see Satan sitting in the newly erected tabernacle in Jerusalem, setting up an image (probably a religious image acceptable to most Christians) and saying that all Christians should have no objection to bowing down to this image, or having it tatooed on hand or forehead to show they really are Christians.  Perhaps he will even present it as if God has told him that if enough people do this, it will break the drought.  Thus he will present those who refuse the mark as not true Christians (since so many Christians will accept it).  

Apart from the fact that you lost a millennium, maybe we have some things in common which should be celebrated.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2015 by Wingnut

[8thdaypriest]

One reason I believe there will be people on earth during the millennium is because, as I read the following verses, God promised it.

Genesis 8:20-22

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Here we see God promising that He will never smite the whole earth again, in spite of "the imagination of man's heart [being] evil from his youth".

To me that settles it.  Earth remains, seedtime and harvest remain....etc.

Or is God a sneaky Father who appears to promise one thing, but gets around His promise through a technicality in the wording.

Like, there will be no seedtime for a while so I can smite them all.

Or I promised not to utterly destroy them with a flood, BUT I did not promise not to utterly destroy them with giant hailstones.

If God were to play this wording game, I would have no faith in Him.  Neither would a child have any faith in a parent who promises to do something good for a child, and then backs out of that promise on a technicality.

We might look at Genesis 9 and say God specifically promises no more worldwide flood, but this does not negate what God says to Himself generally in Genesis 8:21.

Who's sin brought about the flood?  Man's.

Who did man primarily target in this flood, animals or man?  Man.

Who is God promising this to in this Book?  Man.

Who is the only one who can understand this promise? Man.

So when God says "neither will I again smite any more every thing living", to which "living thing" is this promise directed?  Man.

And, very clearly its a promise directed at earth, lest we try to make the excuse that the righteous will be in heaven.

Wow!!!  You'll "have no faith in Him" if God doesn't fulfill things in the manner you think He should.  Really?  Don't crawl too far out on a limb Wingnut. 

Doesn't God preserve a whole LOT of living human beings, by removing them from this earth, to the safety of "the City which He has prepared" ?    That would fulfill the promise for me.

[8thdaypriest]

Wingnut, 
 I like it - that you have thought about those who lived and died in ignorance.  How will the LORD give them an opportunity to "know" Him?  If HE doesn't give them any opportunity at all - then He's not JUST.  Or - on the other hand - if HE simply gives them a FREE PASS, without their ever having to CHOOSE, that would also be UNJUST.  If they died in ignorance, the only way they can have an opportunity to learn about God and Christ, is to wake them up.  So WHEN does this happen? 

I believe it will happen at the 8th millennium.  I believe they will be "the rest of the dead". 

[8thdaypriest]

I've met a few folks, who believe that this earth will actually "pass away" at the SC.  It will no longer exist as the place where humans live.  God will later create a "new" earth. 

That would mean the earth would no longer "remain".   The words of God were "so long as the earth remains".   If earth passes away at the SC, then it would no longer remain. 

Jesus did say, "Heaven and earth will pass away." 

2 Peter 3:7  But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2Pe 3:10 NKJ)

2 Peter 3:12  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

If the whole heavens are on fire, that could be because our sun goes super nova.  If the atmosphere splits ("receded as a scroll when it is rolled up'), that might cause all ocean water to vaporize into space.   I'm just thinking here.  In the New Earth, there is no longer any great ocean covering 75% of the planet.  Land mass would increase by 75%, and there would no longer be any high mountains either, or islands far out in the sea. 

2 Peter 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

On the other hand: 

Hebrew Roots teachers say it's NOT a new earth.  It's a "renewed earth".  They also say the "new covenant" is NOT NEW - but rather "renewed" (but that's a different subject).  Most SDAs I know, are on the side of a RENEWED earth, rather than an entirely NEW one. 

I favor the idea that THIS PLANET will be renewed, or restored to its pre-fall, or at least it's pre-flood state, rather than the idea that an entirely new planet will be created for human habitation. 

[8thdaypriest]

The point about land sabbaths was not that during them everyone moved off the land.  People remained exactly where they were and ate food from the previous year (because God promised to bless them double in the 6th year).

The idea that the millennium is like a land sabbath would therefore not fit the type at all.

If "sowing" and "reaping" is NOT talking about FOOD, be rather about sowing the truth, and reaping in a harvest of souls (as Jesus talked about) - and we applied the types to the 7th sabbatical millennium, that would mean no ignorant persons are taught the truth, nor are they harvested for the kingdom of God.  Personally, I think it does fit. 

[8thdaypriest]

The point about land sabbaths was not that during them everyone moved off the land.  People remained exactly where they were and ate food from the previous year (because God promised to bless them double in the 6th year).

The idea that the millennium is like a land sabbath would therefore not fit the type at all.

The POINT I was making, is that God said "it will rest in desolation".  Desolation IS also "rest". 

Most Evangelicals are teaching that "rest" for the earth, just means there are no wars during the 7th millennium.  It's just REST from WARS.

[8thdaypriest]

 

Do you have any ideas as to how Satan gets folks to accept his 666 mark which allows them to buy or sell? I do not see the mark of the Beast being primarily Sunday keeping since Sunday cannot be worn on hand or forehead.  Even "Sunday keepers" do not keep Sunday.  I think there would be huge resistance to enforcing any sabbath observance, and why would Satan bother to enforce one of the 10 commandments, even on the wrong day?

 

I believe the 666 "mark of the Beast" system will be like a bar code or social security number:  six numbers-six numbers-six numbers.  With that numbering system, you could number (identify) every person on the face of earth.  The numbers would say where you were born, in what country, of what nationality or descent, etc. etc. etc.

We know it is an economic control system, because you cannot buy or sell without it.  If you don't co-operate with the Beast system, they simply pull your number. 

[JoeMo]

I'm really digging this conversation - I have nothing to add.  You both have some great points.  I'm on board with Rachel's 8th millennium theory that the rest of the dead who weren't resurrected or destroyed at the 2nd coming are those who never had a fair chance to know of God.  At that time (after the 7th millennium) both Jesus and satan will be walking the earth.  People will have an opportunity to make the intelligent choice they weren't able to make in the current age.

I'm leaning towards Wingnut's proposal on an earthly millennium ( was leaning that way before Wingnut got here).  I believe some of those who fight against God will be the offspring of those who survived the 2nd coming.  I think we all agree that after the Gog/Magog battle, there is no more evil no more death, and no more hell-fire.  Yes; there will still be "nations"; but they all will worship the Lord; and always be with Him.

Personally, I don't care how the scenario plays out, as long as I am in the Kingdom!  I love discussing it, though.

[8thdaypriest]

Maybe it would be good to write out - in as short a form as possible WHAT we believe (not WHY yet). 

I believe:

1.  At the Second Coming: Christ will resurrection all of the redeemed, and give them eternal life, with new "spiritual bodies".

2.  At the Second Coming:  IF there ARE any righteous witnesses still living, they will be given eternal life.  Their physical bodies will be changed to new "spiritual bodies".

3.  At the Second Coming:  Those confirmed in rebellion against God, will HEAR judgment pronounced against them.  Those who have died will be resurrected to HEAR this judgment. 

They will then be left to die in the last plagues.     

4.  The redeemed will be removed from this earth at the 7th trumpet.  They will not go through the last wrath plagues which are poured out WHEN the 7th trumpet sounds. 

5.  Those who lived and died in ignorance are NOT raised at the SC.  Their sins were those of ignorance, and thus are not counted against them.  They will sleep on through the 7th millennium.

5.  The redeemed (Israel) will go with Christ to "the City which He has prepared", where they will enter into training and preparation for priesthood. 

6.  At the 8th millennium, redeemed Israel will "return to the land" to rebuild and restore.  They will build Ezekiel's Temple. 

7.  A river of life will flow out from Ezekiel's Temple to restore the face of the earth. 

8.  "The rest of the dead" will come to life.  They will constitute "nations".  They will be governed by the priesthood - under Christ.

9.  Satan will be released, because now there are souls for whom the battle has not been decided.  He will seek to deceive them.

10.  Many will come to know the LORD. 

11.  Many will rebel against the ruler-ship of Christ.  They will come against "the land of Israel" (not just against Jerusalem), as the army of Gog-Magog.

12.  God will defend His City.  Fire will come down from Heaven to consume them.

13.  The Holy City New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven.   

[8thdaypriest]

I did not include the gathering of the bones, or their burial. 

It's possible this could happen as part of the clean-up and restoration by returned/redeemed Israel.  The bones may be those of the wicked who died at the SC.   Possible...

[8thdaypriest]

I'm really digging this conversation - I have nothing to add.  You both have some great points.  I'm on board with Rachel's 8th millennium theory that the rest of the dead who weren't resurrected or destroyed at the 2nd coming are those who never had a fair chance to know of God.  At that time (after the 7th millennium) both Jesus and satan will be walking the earth.  People will have an opportunity to make the intelligent choice they weren't able to make in the current age.

I'm leaning towards Wingnut's proposal on an earthly millennium ( was leaning that way before Wingnut got here).  I believe some of those who fight against God will be the offspring of those who survived the 2nd coming.  I think we all agree that after the Gog/Magog battle, there is no more evil no more death, and no more hell-fire.  Yes; there will still be "nations"; but they all will worship the Lord; and always be with Him.

Personally, I don't care how the scenario plays out, as long as I am in the Kingdom!  I love discussing it, though.

So Joe - you don't believe the fire that comes down at Gog-Magog is the final "lake of fire".  Right?  The final one comes AFTER Gog-Magog, at the conclusion of the Great White Throne Judgment.  Right?

[Wingnut]

Wingnut, 
 I like it - that you have thought about those who lived and died in ignorance.  How will the LORD give them an opportunity to "know" Him?  If HE doesn't give them any opportunity at all - then He's not JUST.  Or - on the other hand - if HE simply gives them a FREE PASS, without their ever having to CHOOSE, that would also be UNJUST.  If they died in ignorance, the only way they can have an opportunity to learn about God and Christ, is to wake them up.  So WHEN does this happen? 

I believe it will happen at the 8th millennium.  I believe they will be "the rest of the dead". 

Now that I agree fully with you will be in the 8th millennium!

My speculation is that those living during the millennium build shelters for those about to be resurrected when the 1000 years are past.

The ignorant dead rise into a world no longer influenced by Satan.

They are given a few short years to make a choice.  How hard will that be with Christ living and reigning from Jerusalem?

Then Satan is released.

He sweeps those on the fence up to surround Jerusalem.  Those on the fence include those who lived through the 7th millennium.

All those mortals who accepted Christ are changed to immortal.

The dead who knew Christ and knowingly rejected Him (Judas etc) are now resurrected as mortals on earth.

That means that everyone left on earth is destined for the lake of fire. 

Fire comes down from heaven and fries the whole earth, north, south east and west.

New Jerusalem descends to earth.

And they all live happily ever after.

 

Edited October 11, 2015 by Wingnut

[Wingnut]

I'm really digging this conversation - I have nothing to add.  You both have some great points.  I'm on board with Rachel's 8th millennium theory that the rest of the dead who weren't resurrected or destroyed at the 2nd coming are those who never had a fair chance to know of God.  At that time (after the 7th millennium) both Jesus and satan will be walking the earth.  People will have an opportunity to make the intelligent choice they weren't able to make in the current age.

I'm leaning towards Wingnut's proposal on an earthly millennium ( was leaning that way before Wingnut got here).  I believe some of those who fight against God will be the offspring of those who survived the 2nd coming.  I think we all agree that after the Gog/Magog battle, there is no more evil no more death, and no more hell-fire.  Yes; there will still be "nations"; but they all will worship the Lord; and always be with Him.

Personally, I don't care how the scenario plays out, as long as I am in the Kingdom!  I love discussing it, though.

I agree with everything you wrote above.  I am also on board with Rachel that the ignorant dead are given a chance. 

And from this statement of yours "At that time (after the 7th millennium) both Jesus and satan will be walking the earth.  People will have an opportunity to make the intelligent choice they weren't able to make in the current age" I lean towards this thought which I invite your comment on...

My thought is this, that at some stage EVERY human must come into contact with the influence of Satan, and say "No" to him.  They must also come into contact with Christ and say "Yes" to Him.  Those who lived through the 7M without Satan are not given immortality till the 8M when Satan is released to surround "the beloved city" which includes Jerusalem and all Christ's cities.  So the big test for those born and living in the millennium is to remain faithful to the end - the end being 1000 years away in some cases.

Thanks for acting like a Chairman during this debate, and for keeping me from becoming rowdy.  

Edited October 11, 2015 by Wingnut

[Wingnut]

 

I believe the 666 "mark of the Beast" system will be like a bar code or social security number:  six numbers-six numbers-six numbers.  With that numbering system, you could number (identify) every person on the face of earth.  The numbers would say where you were born, in what country, of what nationality or descent, etc. etc. etc.

We know it is an economic control system, because you cannot buy or sell without it.  If you don't co-operate with the Beast system, they simply pull your number. 

I agree with you.  Do you believe it will be given only when people also agree to abide by a set of rules, some of them regulating religion?  It seems to me that this boolean "yes", "no" to the mark affects ones eternity, so it would not be fair to just issue every citizen one without them making this life-altering decision

[Wingnut]

I did not include the gathering of the bones, or their burial. 

It's possible this could happen as part of the clean-up and restoration by returned/redeemed Israel.  The bones may be those of the wicked who died at the SC.   Possible...

Bones and combustible material do not lie around for 1000 years and then still need burying.  In most parts of the world these mortal remains do not remain even 100 years if left unburied.