JoeMo Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 "His tail drew a THIRD of the stars of heaven." The repeating THIRD, is a clue to who is behind the terrible trumpet plagues. I believe six of the TRUMPET events, are Satan's plagues (1/3, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3) - part of his masterpiece of deception, to make folks THINK those are the 7 last plagues. I believe Satan will make his appearance in a rebuilt Temple, on the Mount at Jerusalem. The world will worship him. It is likely that the Ark of the Covenant will be recovered, and placed in that Temple. When Satan places his hand on that Ark, and claims that He is Christ and that He can change that Law - THAT will be the moment when He crosses the line. Just like the Feast of Belshazzar, using vessels from the Jerusalem Temple. Satan will - at that moment - be weighed in the balances, and his kingdom will be "taken from him" and given to Christ, in the heavenly judgment scene described in Daniel 7:9-10. While the 5th and 6th trumpets indeed seem to refer to demonic harassment (which God has to allow before it happens), the first 4 sound like the result of a large meteor strike. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 I did not say us newly resurrected saints would be fighting. We would be watching the angels fighting, as you say. This idea that we need 1000 years training is unnecessary. We have been in righteousness and obedience training all our Christian walk. Christ just has to tell us "judge that dispute" or "solve that marriage problem" and "do it by the 613 OT laws and 1050 NT laws" - and I feel good to go. I don't feel ready to judge anyone else. I believe all those times in the Sanctuary, WERE PROPHECY. They were telling us something. Those to become priests were "consecrated" for 7 days. They DID NOT begin to minister as priests UNTIL the 8th day. They were to "remain within the Tabernacle" UNTIL the 8th day. Heaven itself, IS "the true tabernacle". This is WHY I do not believe we will come BACK to this earth, to minister as priests - to govern and teach the nations, UNTIL the 8th millennium. IF - as I believe - no one from "the nations" will survive the plagues, or the "sword from His mouth", then there is no one to minister for, during the 7th millennium. They are not resurrected UNTIL the 8th. There are so many 8ths in the Tabernacle symbolism. People with any disease were quarantined for 7 days. They could not rejoin the congregation until the 8th day. People who had touched death, were anointed with the ashes of the red heifer on the 3rd day, and on the 7th day. They were NOT fully CLEAN until the END of the 7th day - which IS the beginning of the 8th. Lepers went through an elaborate ceremony - very similar to the consecration of priests. They could once again - enter His HOUSE - on the 8th day. I believe this symbolizes humanity - again as part of "the House" (the universal Kingdom) of God. We ARE LEPERS - who will become PRIESTS. We are diseased. We have touched death. It all points to final and full resolution for the ENTIRE family of God - at the 8th day. Newborn animals were not suitable for presentation to the LORD, UNTIL the 8th day. Newborn Israelites also - were circumcised the 8th day. If circumcision is "that of the heart" then WE "newborn" Israelites will NOT be fully and completely "circumcised" until the Spirit of the New Covenant is poured upon us - at the 8th day. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 "The rest" - that would be everyone who is NOT the Beast and NOT the false prophet - "were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh." This is the same argument as the "ALL". "The rest" does not mean "ALL the rest". This is a common (rookie) mistake in exegesis. In everyday language we use these all inclusive words which do not mean literally that. "You always leave your dirty washing on the floor". No, sometimes we don't. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 On the Sabbath of the 7th Day: Israel was not to "do any work". Collecting bones and cleaning up the earth, restoring and rebuilding, and planting vineyards, SEEMS LIKE "WORK". The manna, did NOT FALL during the 7th day. The manna represents Christ. So - that would mean no Christ on this earth during the 7th (sabbath) millennium. Quote 8thdaypriest
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 While the 5th and 6th trumpets indeed seem to refer to demonic harassment (which God has to allow before it happens), the first 4 sound like the result of a large meteor strike. So - Satan can't know WHEN that's coming, and take advantage of it - to deceive??? Quote 8thdaypriest
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 I'm looking at it from the sense that some are taken in death and others are left alive. The ones that were "taken away" in the time of Noah(as referred to in Matt. 24) are those who died. The "we who are left" in 1Thess.4 refers to the ones left alive. All I'm saying is that it's not a "proof" because it can be taken more than one way. It's just a piece of the puzzle. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I don't feel ready to judge anyone else. I believe all those times in the Sanctuary, WERE PROPHECY. They were telling us something. Those to become priests were "consecrated" for 7 days. They DID NOT begin to minister as priests UNTIL the 8th day. They were to "remain within the Tabernacle" UNTIL the 8th day. Heaven itself, IS "the true tabernacle". This is WHY I do not believe we will come BACK to this earth, to minister as priests - to govern and teach the nations, UNTIL the 8th millennium. IF - as I believe - no one from "the nations" will survive the plagues, or the "sword from His mouth", then there is no one to minister for, during the 7th millennium. They are not resurrected UNTIL the 8th. There are so many 8ths in the Tabernacle symbolism. People with any disease were quarantined for 7 days. They could not rejoin the congregation until the 8th day. People who had touched death, were anointed with the ashes of the red heifer on the 3rd day, and on the 7th day. They were NOT fully CLEAN until the END of the 7th day - which IS the beginning of the 8th. Lepers went through an elaborate ceremony - very similar to the consecration of priests. They could once again - enter His HOUSE - on the 8th day. I believe this symbolizes humanity - again as part of "the House" (the universal Kingdom) of God. We ARE LEPERS - who will become PRIESTS. We are diseased. We have touched death. It all points to final and full resolution for the ENTIRE family of God - at the 8th day. Newborn animals were not suitable for presentation to the LORD, UNTIL the 8th day. Newborn Israelites also - were circumcised the 8th day. If circumcision is "that of the heart" then WE "newborn" Israelites will NOT be fully and completely "circumcised" until the Spirit of the New Covenant is poured upon us - at the 8th day. Gematria /ɡəˈmeɪ.tri.ə/ (Greek: meaning geometry) is an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of code and numerology later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Rachel, I guarantee you don't want to play that game with me, that "ALL" means "each and every" or without exception. I will find countless uses of "all" in the Bible where "all" means "many" or "most" but not "each and every". There is still time to recant It's a piece of the puzzle Wingnut. That's all. There is NO VERSE which says explicitly "The "saints" will come back to earth, to live and rebuild and "rule over" the billions of people who survive the plagues." We are trying to see where the weight of the evidence falls. This is NOT a contest, where one opponent must say "Give, give!!" to declare the other winner. Quote 8thdaypriest
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Last night I was trying on your theory, in my mind. I was imagining how it might work. I imagined the redeemed, coming back to earth after the last plagues. First they would have to minister to all the wounded and diseased. The "river" flowing out from Ezekiel's Temple would help with that. Then cleaning up, and rebuilding, and planting vineyards, and building houses. But it's all for nothing. If you are right, then - at the 8th millennium - all they have built is "burned up" again, when the "lake of fire" cauterizes the entire earth. I thought the LORD promised that Israel would NEVER again be removed from "the land". Wouldn't they have to be removed, if fire is going to consume "the earth and the works that are therein"? I like better, the idea that this earth is "cauterized" at the SC. THEN Israel can return to "the land" forever. The only thing "consumed" at Gog-Magog, is the rebel army, along with it's supporters. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 It's a piece of the puzzle Wingnut. That's all. There is NO VERSE which says explicitly "The "saints" will come back to earth, to live and rebuild and "rule over" the billions of people who survive the plagues." We are trying to see where the weight of the evidence falls. This is NOT a contest, where one opponent must say "Give, give!!" to declare the other winner. Again I apologise for coming across too strongly. I did add a smiley face to soften it though. So we agree that in this and many cases "all" does not mean all? Maybe? Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Gematria /ɡəˈmeɪ.tri.ə/ (Greek: meaning geometry) is an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of code and numerology later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures. So you're dismissing the ENTIRE Tabernacle symbolism as a man made numerology ? No significance - prophetically speaking. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Last night I was trying on your theory, in my mind. I was imagining how it might work. I imagined the redeemed, coming back to earth after the last plagues. First they would have to minister to all the wounded and diseased. The "river" flowing out from Ezekiel's Temple would help with that. Then cleaning up, and rebuilding, and planting vineyards, and building houses. But it's all for nothing. If you are right, then - at the 8th millennium - all they have built is "burned up" again, when the "lake of fire" cauterizes the entire earth. I thought the LORD promised that Israel would NEVER again be removed from "the land". Wouldn't they have to be removed, if fire is going to consume "the earth and the works that are therein"? I like better, the idea that this earth is "cauterized" at the SC. THEN Israel can return to "the land" forever. The only thing "consumed" at Gog-Magog, is the rebel army, along with it's supporters. I built my own house with my own hands which took me 5 years. It was worth it even now that I have lived in it for 10 years. To build brand new houses and live in them for 1000 years, and as long as they continue to do into the 8M will be so worth it. Israel continues to live in the land, just as someone continues to live on their land when some extreme demolition company knocks the house down and replaces it. There are TV shows like that. The final lake of fire in the 8M I see as happening in a day, with New Jerusalem arriving immediately after. Also, I take with a grain of salt "Never" as used in the Bible. "Never" may not mean without exception, and I am sure my concordance could find places where "never" has exceptions (an Edomite shall never be be allowed into Israel, but Ruth was). Quote
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 So you're dismissing the ENTIRE Tabernacle symbolism as a man made numerology ? No significance - prophetically speaking. No. 8 is used of new beginnings and purification, which perfectly suits the 8M. Shemini Azeret or the 8th day after the Feast of Tabernacles symbolises the 8M and the New Beginning. But one cannot prove anything with numbers, except as one does with maths such as 2 + 2 = 4. Quote
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I like better, the idea that this earth is "cauterized" at the SC. THEN Israel can return to "the land" forever. The only thing "consumed" at Gog-Magog, is the rebel army, along with it's supporters. Don't you believe that New Jerusalem will replace all that was built before in the 8M? You know how big New Jerusalem is? Quote
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Rachel, I tried out your 1000 years planning for the 8M, but doing nothing while earth just lies there. The idea sounds as close as one can get to the Protestant idea of sitting around on a cloud playing harps. I will admit to a total prejudice against this idea of sitting around doing nothing constructive for 1000 years. I mean, that sounds close to what Satan does for the 7M. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Don't you believe that New Jerusalem will replace all that was built before in the 8M? You know how big New Jerusalem is? Yes I know it will cover entirely "the land" that was promised to Abraham. I believe the New Jerusalem will incorporate the entire "land of Israel". Quote 8thdaypriest
8thdaypriest Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Rachel, I tried out your 1000 years planning for the 8M, but doing nothing while earth just lies there. The idea sounds as close as one can get to the Protestant idea of sitting around on a cloud playing harps. I will admit to a total prejudice against this idea of sitting around doing nothing constructive for 1000 years. I mean, that sounds close to what Satan does for the 7M. "Nothing constructive" - really? My idea of the 7th millennium goes something like this. We go to the Holy City New Jerusalem (the "place" He has prepared). We sit down with Him and the redeemed in "the marriage supper of the Lamb". We meet and dialog with our angels. We meet and fellowship with our ancestors who believed. We will probably go to lectures by Abraham, and David, and Jeremiah, and Queen Esther, etc. etc. etc. We get to ask every question we ever wanted an answer for. We also meet those who wounded us during our lives, but still now belong to Christ. We experience a healed relationship with them. We also meet those we ourselves wounded, and we have the time to ask their forgiveness. Relationships are restored. We learn to live in peace. I think we HAVE NO IDEA how damaged we really are. In this world we THINK defensively. We expect people to fail us, and to hurt us (because THAT is our experience). We don't open up to them, without time and testing. We carry that "post traumatic stress disorder" within us, just from living in a sinful world. It will take TIME to heal. I don't believe the LORD magically heals our minds. It is a process - which will take time. I would no more be "bored" with this process, than I will be "bored" once all of the restoration is completed, and there is no one else to win over for the LORD. We will NEVER come to a point where we know everything there is to know. God is infinite. We will always be growing, and learning. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 "Nothing constructive" - really? My idea of the 7th millennium goes something like this. We also meet those who wounded us during our lives, but still now belong to Christ. We experience a healed relationship with them. We also meet those we ourselves wounded, and we have the time to ask their forgiveness. Relationships are restored. We learn to live in peace. I think we HAVE NO IDEA how damaged we really are. In this world we THINK defensively. We expect people to fail us, and to hurt us (because THAT is our experience). We don't open up to them, without time and testing. We carry that "post traumatic stress disorder" within us, just from living in a sinful world. It will take TIME to heal. I don't believe the LORD magically heals our minds. It is a process - which will take time. Nice scenario. But guys do not like to talk about their wounding. What would we do? Quote
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Rachel, I think I am going to have to pull out the big guns to convince you, seing as our visions of the kingdom differ and are speculative. I am going to have to pull out some OT prophecies which I have not read for decades, and frankly have forgotten they exist, such as the one below from Is 66. This is Christ's second coming. Folks are eating swines flesh etc. The bits in blue prove for me that there is a remnant left immediately after Christ's second coming. Just see what you think. For me vs 19 is a clincher. Those left go around the world preaching to those who "have not heard my fame". How could people not have heard God's fame by the middle of 8M? And then they bring back their converts on horses, litters etc. to worship Christ in Jerusalem, and He takes them and makes them Levites in His temple in Jerusalem. To me this can only be start of 7M not middle 8m. a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 2nd 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Wingnut adds - they remain on earth to worship at Jerusalem 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Wingnut adds: I don't believe that at the final Rev 20 fire, they remain to lie around. Fire comes from heaven, purifies earth, New J comes down. Edited October 12, 2015 by Wingnut Quote
Wingnut Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Rachel, I realised that I do not understand what you believe happens immediately after the fire destroys Gog in the 8M. Could you list for me what happens after this till New J comes down. Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Wingnut, Are you a "right wing" - nut, or a "left wing" - nut. hahaha I just don't know how I can discuss much with you, if you dismiss the Sanctuary times as something that "came in" during the Babylonian captivity. It's like you're saying that God did not appoint these times. All those commands concerning cleansing, and sacrifices that culminated at the 8th day - those were just something added to the Scripture - NOT God commanded??? The Sanctuary is the framework, into which we plug EVERYTHING else - all prophecy. It's like the edge of the puzzle - only much more so. Without the Sanctuary "times" to serve as our framework, we have no idea WHERE to place these prophecies. Quote 8thdaypriest
Wingnut Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Wingnut, Are you a "right wing" - nut, or a "left wing" - nut. hahaha I just don't know how I can discuss much with you, if you dismiss the Sanctuary times as something that "came in" during the Babylonian captivity. It's like you're saying that God did not appoint these times. All those commands concerning cleansing, and sacrifices that culminated at the 8th day - those were just something added to the Scripture - NOT God commanded??? The Sanctuary is the framework, into which we plug EVERYTHING else - all prophecy. It's like the edge of the puzzle - only much more so. Without the Sanctuary "times" to serve as our framework, we have no idea WHERE to place these prophecies. What sanctuary times did I mention? Are you addressing the right person. I know nothing of sanctuary times? Quote
JoeMo Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 Gematria /ɡəˈmeɪ.tri.ə/ (Greek: meaning geometry) is an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of code and numerology later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like. Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures. I can see how this applies to things that are language specific (like "VICTARIVS FILII DEI" - the falsely assiged title of the Pope in Latin = 666 in Roman numerals); because it only fits for Latin - doesn't work for Greek or Hebrew. However, the word used for "8" or "8th" is NOT language specific, 8 = 8 in any language you want to translate it into. The way it looks like you're interpreting gematria, the numbers 3, 7, and 12 could be Assyro-Babylonian-Greek numerology as well. I think they are numbers with significant spiritual meaning in any language - not some kind of a code. Quote
Wingnut Posted October 13, 2015 Posted October 13, 2015 My little dig at gematria was only to say that I don't think we can prove anything using it. My regret in this discussion is that I did not find out what Rachel believed happened after Gog. She mentioned something about us examining the records of the damned to agree with God. I want to know what sort of normal human life she believes continues on after the Gog battle, But I respect anyones wish to discontinue the discussion at any time. I have 1000 things to do Quote
8thdaypriest Posted October 13, 2015 Author Posted October 13, 2015 Rachel, I think I am going to have to pull out the big guns to convince you, seing as our visions of the kingdom differ and are speculative. I am going to have to pull out some OT prophecies which I have not read for decades, and frankly have forgotten they exist, such as the one below from Is 66. This is Christ's second coming. Folks are eating swines flesh etc. The bits in blue prove for me that there is a remnant left immediately after Christ's second coming. Just see what you think. For me vs 19 is a clincher. Those left go around the world preaching to those who "have not heard my fame". How could people not have heard God's fame by the middle of 8M? Rachel replies in red: I don't think this is "the middle" of the 8th millennium. It is AFTER these people are resurrected as "the rest of the dead", which doesn't happen UNTIL 1000 years AFTER the SC. They lived at a time, or in a place, when the truth of God was unknown. We - the redeemed - will serve as "priests of God and of Christ" to TEACH them the way of the LORD. TEACHING the Law was THE primary ROLE of the priests and Levites. We will also govern them - just as we saw in Israel before she had a King, only at the 8th millennium, Israel will have a King - Jesus. And then they bring back their converts on horses, litters etc. to worship Christ in Jerusalem, and He takes them and makes them Levites in His temple in Jerusalem. To me this can only be start of 7M not middle 8m. Rachel replies: To me this is during the 8th millennium - on this earth - after "the rest of the dead" are resurrected. a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies. 2nd coming Rachel agrees. 7 Before she (Israel) travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child (Christ). 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: 11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. (Second Coming - agreed). 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. Rachel: The above describes the wicked idolators. 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. Rachel replies: This is resurrection of wicked AT the SC, for judgment. THERE's TIME GAP HERE. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. Rachel: The ones who "escape" from "the nations" who are judged at the SC - ARE the redeemed. They are made priests to teach and govern "the rest of the dead", who are NOT raised, or judged at the SC, BECAUSE they died in ignorance. 20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. Rachel: Many of those raised AFTER the 1000 years, as "the rest of the dead" will come to know the LORD, and will choose to serve Him. The LORD will even take some of these people to be priests and Levites, to go teach others. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Wingnut adds - they remain on earth to worship at Jerusalem. Rachel replies: "Your seed" is Christ. Christ's people are the "seed of Abraham". This is NOT referring to miscellaneous people who survived the last wrath plagues. Psalm 89:4 `Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations.'" (NKJ) 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. All redeemed people will go up to worship the LORD at the appointed times. That's the command. If "the family of Egypt will not go up" then they will not receive any "rain" (symbol of the Spirit) Zech Cpt 14. They will be deceived by Satan, and end up DEAD at Gog/Magog. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Wingnut adds: I don't believe that at the final Rev 20 fire, they remain to lie around. Fire comes from heaven, purifies earth, New J comes down. This prophecy is pointing to the "curse" pronounced against the Valley of Himmon, just outside Jerusalem. They used to offer human sacrifice there. It became a giant garbage dump, where they burned garbage, and the corpses of executed criminals. It is called Gehenna in the NT. Jesus quoted this prophecy from Isa. 66 several times. When the Romans destroyed Jerusalem at 70 AD, this valley was filled with thousands of rotting corpses. It will happen again at Armageddon. And it will happen again at Gog/Magog. How much of the prophecy will be LITERALLY fulfilled at Gog/Magog during the 8th millennium, I don't know. The army of Gog/Magog WILL be physically DEAD. And AFTER Gog/Magog there will be a FINAL judgment event - the Great White Throne Judgment. THEN - the New Jerusalem will come down to earth. Quote 8thdaypriest
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