Where will the redeemed spend the 7th millennium?

[Wingnut]

 

What I need from you Rachel is what happens to life after Gog.  

I need to know from you what would convince you of life on earth continuing after the 2nd coming.

I was prepared to read the Major and Minor prophets to find scriptures which seem to say life continues on earth at Christ's return.

But that will not convince you.  You will just say that this is 8M.

If I were to point out that Israel is saved from captivity at the time of the 2nd coming, and if I found prophecies of being taken from captivity straight into Christ's kingdom on earth, then I doubt that would convince you.  To me that would clinch my proof.  Would that convince you?  I doubt it.

Maybe if I knew exactly what you believe happens to the inhabitants on earth after Gog.   I believe nothing happens, New J comes down.  I don't know what you believe happens to mortals on earth then.  You have no problem with them burning combustible material for 7 years.  I don't understand that. I need to know what happens to these burners and buryers after that.  Suppose they live on, worshipping in the 8M temple, how do their lives end?  If you don't know, then nothing I point out will make a difference, because if you have no theory of what happens after Gog, nothing I say will make a difference.

[Wingnut]

 

THERE's TIME GAP HERE.

Not in the original scripture.

And notice Zech 14.  The story flow all seems continuous.  But you have to add "THERE's TIME GAP HERE." to have it end in the 8M. Where would you add it?

 

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: 

 

[Wingnut]

 

 

And in this end-time description from Joel 3, where would you like to place the 1000 year gap?  

 

 

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

[Wingnut]

 

Where would you place the 1000 year gap here Rachel?

 

8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.  Wingnut adds: some of Israel survive into the millennium

9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. Wingnut adds:  Israel is brought out of captivity at the start of the 7M not 8M

15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

[Wingnut]

 

I suppose that this passage from Zeph 3 also has a hidden 1000 year gap somewhere too.

 

 

8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.  Wingnut adds:  These sound like people left on earth, not saints in heaven.

11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me:

[8thdaypriest]

What I need from you Rachel is what happens to life after Gog.  

I need to know from you what would convince you of life on earth continuing after the 2nd coming.

I was prepared to read the Major and Minor prophets to find scriptures which seem to say life continues on earth at Christ's return.

But that will not convince you.  You will just say that this is 8M.

If I were to point out that Israel is saved from captivity at the time of the 2nd coming, and if I found prophecies of being taken from captivity straight into Christ's kingdom on earth, then I doubt that would convince you.  To me that would clinch my proof.  Would that convince you?  I doubt it.

Maybe if I knew exactly what you believe happens to the inhabitants on earth after Gog.   I believe nothing happens, New J comes down.  I don't know what you believe happens to mortals on earth then.  You have no problem with them burning combustible material for 7 years.  I don't understand that. I need to know what happens to these burners and buryers after that.  Suppose they live on, worshipping in the 8M temple, how do their lives end?  If you don't know, then nothing I point out will make a difference, because if you have no theory of what happens after Gog, nothing I say will make a difference.

AFTER the Gog-Magog Battle,

I see the City of Hamon Gog sort of like a Holocost Museum.  It's a memorial to what sin caused.  Just my thoughts.  I see the people of earth cleaning up things. 

THEN I see the Holy City New Jerusalem coming down to remain based on the earth permanently.  I believe it is a portal.  It goes 345 miles up into Heaven.  (Jacob's Ladder was the symbol for it.) 

THEN I see the Great White Throne Judgment.  The wicked DEAD are NOT resurrected for that judgment.  Only God's retained memory of them (what He could use to resurrect them) is destroyed at the end of this judgment.  This is a final review and resolution for the redeemed. 

I said, at the beginning of this discussion, that we would probably have to agree to disagree.  And we do.   Those things you say will happen during the 7th millennium, I believe will happen during the 8th millennium.  I do NOT believe that any people will survive the last plagues.  Every mountain range - all over the earth - will fall.  Every Island of the sea - will sink.  The sun will grow 7 times hotter.  That's universal. 

But it's been a good discussion.  Thank you. 

[8thdaypriest]

 

I suppose that this passage from Zeph 3 also has a hidden 1000 year gap somewhere too.

 

 

8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.  Last plagues, and SC judgment of wicked. 

GAP of 1000 years.  Israel them returns to her inheritance.  This would be Jubilee. 

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.  Wingnut adds:  These sound like people left on earth, not saints in heaven.

It is people on the earth.  "The rest of the dead" raised AFTER the 1000 years, many of whom come up to worship the LORD, and learn His ways. 

11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me:

[8thdaypriest]

Not in the original scripture.

And notice Zech 14.  The story flow all seems continuous.  But you have to add "THERE's TIME GAP HERE." to have it end in the 8M. Where would you add it?

 

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: 

 

I think this portion you quoted COULD possibly all be 8th day.  The plain, would be for the Holy City to descend upon. 

[8thdaypriest]

 

 

And in this end-time description from Joel 3, where would you like to place the 1000 year gap?  

 

 

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.  And the "earth is moved out of her place", and is shaken like  potters hut in a field, and every mountain and island sinks into the earth.  All second coming.

16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

THEN - means after that.  AFTER THAT can follow immediately, or follow 1000 years AFTER.  So yes, "then" is where I see the gap. 

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

[8thdaypriest]

AFTER the Gog-Magog Battle,

I see the City of Hamon Gog sort of like a Holocost Museum.  It's a memorial to what sin caused.  Just my thoughts.  I see the people of earth cleaning up things. 

THEN I see the Holy City New Jerusalem coming down to remain based on the earth permanently.  I believe it is a portal.  It goes 345 miles up into Heaven.  (Jacob's Ladder was the symbol for it.) 

THEN I see the Great White Throne Judgment.  The wicked DEAD are NOT resurrected for that judgment.  Only God's retained memory of them (what He could use to resurrect them) is destroyed at the end of this judgment.  This is a final review and resolution for the redeemed. 

I said, at the beginning of this discussion, that we would probably have to agree to disagree.  And we do.   Those things you say will happen during the 7th millennium, I believe will happen during the 8th millennium.  I do NOT believe that any people will survive the last plagues.  Every mountain range - all over the earth - will fall.  Every Island of the sea - will sink.  The sun will grow 7 times hotter.  That's universal. 

But it's been a good discussion.  Thank you. 

We've been talking about TWO different things here. 

1.  Where the redeemed will spend the 1000 years from the SC to the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" ?

2.  Will any people (other than the redeemed) survive the last plagues, to live (and die?) on this earth during the 7th millennium?

I do NOT believe that any people (other than the redeemed will survive).  "Without form and void" is "without form and void" (Jeremiah 4:23). 

Now - I do NOT know exactly WHEN the redeemed will return to this earth, to restore and rebuild.  I'm assuming it would be some time BEFORE "the rest of the dead" are resurrected. 

In the Hebrew TYPES, a Hebrew who lost his property and then sold himself into slavery was free after SIX years, but could not reclaim His inheritance.  He could not return to his inheritance UNTIL the Jubilee.  As far as we know, the Jubilee was NEVER kept - not even once.  Israel once freed their debt slaves, but later went and hauled them back. 

The Jubilee BEGAN on the Day of Atonement, half way thru the 49th year.  It overlapped year 49 and year 1 of the next cycle.  So it's POSSIBLE that redeemed Israel will "return to the land" to the inheritance, in the middle of the 7th millennium.  POSSIBLE. 

Maybe THAT is when the redeemed of Israel will gather bones, and build fires with the (atomic?) weapons for 7 years, and build a Museum to the holocaust which sin caused, as a teaching tool for those raised as "the rest of the dead".  Maybe???

 

[8thdaypriest]

Wingnut,

I also have lots of "stuff" I'm trying to get done.  We live on 10 acres.  We're trying to prepare for Fall garden.  I'm not on the forum every day, and when i am, it's usually in my morning.  I'm 7 hours behind your time. 

When i disagree with your interpretation, I mean no disrespect whatsoever.  I just have a different understanding of portions of Scripture.  We can share our theories, but really - we'll just have to wait and see, exactly HOW everything comes to pass. 

I don't think our view regarding the exact nature of the 8th millennium, or the 7th, is a salvation-al issue.  Even the nature of those issues which I would call salvation-al, is not perfectly clear.  I mean, we say that belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, who died for us, is absolutely salvational.  Right?   But there are those who actually BELIEVE that Jesus was/is the literal son of God the Father, and there are those who do not.  

The essential beliefs - those that determine whether one will be saved, CAN vary from person to person, depending upon what each person has "seen" or understood.  For instance, there WILL be many Sunday keepers saved in the Kingdom, BECAUSE they did not "see" that truth.  On the other hand, there will be many LOST, because they DID "see" that truth, and failed to honor God by resting on His day. 

For me - it all comes down to love.  Do we love our neighbors and even our enemies?  Or do we not?  I would much rather deal with a loving agnostic, than a hateful "believer". 

[pnattmbtc]

Wingnut,

I also have lots of "stuff" I'm trying to get done.  We live on 10 acres.  We're trying to prepare for Fall garden.  I'm not on the forum every day, and when i am, it's usually in my morning.  I'm 7 hours behind your time. 

When i disagree with your interpretation, I mean no disrespect whatsoever.  I just have a different understanding of portions of Scripture.  We can share our theories, but really - we'll just have to wait and see, exactly HOW everything comes to pass. 

I don't think our view regarding the exact nature of the 8th millennium, or the 7th, is a salvation-al issue.  Even the nature of those issues which I would call salvation-al, is not perfectly clear.  I mean, we say that belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, who died for us, is absolutely salvational.  Right?   But there are those who actually BELIEVE that Jesus was/is the literal son of God the Father, and there are those who do not.  

The essential beliefs - those that determine whether one will be saved, CAN vary from person to person, depending upon what each person has "seen" or understood.  For instance, there WILL be many Sunday keepers saved in the Kingdom, BECAUSE they did not "see" that truth.  On the other hand, there will be many LOST, because they DID "see" that truth, and failed to honor God by resting on His day. 

For me - it all comes down to love.  Do we love our neighbors and even our enemies?  Or do we not?  I would much rather deal with a loving agnostic, than a hateful "believer". 

Given that God does not change the character at the resurrection, then what's most important must be our character.  What is it that impacts our character?  It is our faith, principles our perception of God's character.  As we perceive the love of God revealed through Christ, we become transformed into that same image. (iow, I agree with your point here).

[Wingnut]

Wingnut,

I also have lots of "stuff" I'm trying to get done.  We live on 10 acres.  We're trying to prepare for Fall garden.  I'm not on the forum every day, and when i am, it's usually in my morning.  I'm 7 hours behind your time. 

When i disagree with your interpretation, I mean no disrespect whatsoever.  I just have a different understanding of portions of Scripture.  We can share our theories, but really - we'll just have to wait and see, exactly HOW everything comes to pass. 

I don't think our view regarding the exact nature of the 8th millennium, or the 7th, is a salvation-al issue.  Even the nature of those issues which I would call salvation-al, is not perfectly clear.  I mean, we say that belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, who died for us, is absolutely salvational.  Right?   But there are those who actually BELIEVE that Jesus was/is the literal son of God the Father, and there are those who do not.  

The essential beliefs - those that determine whether one will be saved, CAN vary from person to person, depending upon what each person has "seen" or understood.  For instance, there WILL be many Sunday keepers saved in the Kingdom, BECAUSE they did not "see" that truth.  On the other hand, there will be many LOST, because they DID "see" that truth, and failed to honor God by resting on His day. 

For me - it all comes down to love.  Do we love our neighbors and even our enemies?  Or do we not?  I would much rather deal with a loving agnostic, than a hateful "believer". 

Thank you for the discussion Rachel.  I am a self-confessed prophecy hobbyist.  What I think I know about prophecy has never helped me one iota in my Christian walk, and it may never.  For me it's just fun to cross "e-swords" with someone as knowledgeable as you, on a topic as unimportant as this.  And I did learn a lot, so thanks for that. 

[phkrause]

Here's a sermon by Pr Doug Batchelor on this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuZWUqcEebU

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/10/2015 at 11:35 PM, Wingnut said:

Bones and combustible material do not lie around for 1000 years and then still need burying.  In most parts of the world these mortal remains do not remain even 100 years if left unburied.

They DO if there is NO OXYGEN in the atmosphere.