Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[hch]

8 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

that actually wouldn't surprise me...  

God has a way of accomplishing things with a few in number. (of all those who read this thread there are about 4 that say that they will not be surprised) the ratio is of those who will be shocked to those who are expecting it is very lopsided. 

[LifeHiscost]

Whatever the case might be, this advice is never out of context. None of us are guaranteed the next heartbeat

12"Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, O Israel." ...Amos 4

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[CoAspen]

Obama has much more respect for the office of president and the results of the elections. We apparently have only one individual, at this point, who seems to show no respect for the office or others.

[pierrepaul]

7 hours ago, hch said:

God has a way of accomplishing things with a few in number. (of all those who read this thread there are about 4 that say that they will not be surprised) the ratio is of those who will be shocked to those who are expecting it is very lopsided. 

I will be among those surprised if this comes to pass; but in the last few days I have read every word you have posted in this thread and I appreciate you sharing with us. May God bless you.

[hch]

On 1/11/2017 at 8:11 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH, thank you for opening the discussion up to an issue that I will suggest is important.  Let us look at the image of Daniel 2:

In Daniel 2, the image is described as having:

* A head of good.

* Chest and arms of silver.

* Belly and thighs of brass.

* Legs of iron.

* Feet and toes of iron and clay.

* A stone that demolishes the image.

Each of the above is further explained in the chapter.  E.G  Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the head of gold.

If we believe that the Bible is sufficient to explain itself, it is very important to note what the Bible explains and what it does not explain.  We can state with  confidence that Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold because the Bible says so.

But, it is just as  important to note what that Bible does not explain.

The Bible does not state:

* That there are two (2) legs.

*  That there are ten (10) toes)

* That there are five (5) toes on each leg.

I know of people who attempt to give  detailed discussions of all three (3) of the above on the basis that people generally have two (2) legs and ten (10) toes.  Because the Bible does not give that detail, it is not justified for us to attribute prophetic importance to such issues and to do so goes beyond the Bible.  Yet, I know of people who think it proper to do so.  such is reading into the Biblical text what  in not there.

   

NOTE:  We can not say that everyone has two legs and 10 toes.  I have a relative who has eleven (11) toes.

 

When we accept the Bible's interpretation, we are on solid ground. But when the Bible is added to from human knowledge things often get confused. 

The same king that dreamed that he was the head of gold in Daniel 2, dreamed that he was a great tree in Daniel 4.  The problem arises when The king in Daniel 2 is turned into a kingdom, but he is only a king in Daniel 4. The inconsistency of applying the meaning to the known symbols is unfortunate. It hinders our advancement in knowledge.

on the other hand, there are some things that are standardized in the Bible like the fact that the image with the head of gold was not a two headed image and it is safe to conclude that it had two arms, two legs, and ten toes because that follows the pattern that God established when He made man of which the image is patterned. To assume that the image has three legs or 11 toes is to deviate from the pattern. And as Daniel continues to have dreams and visions, he explains in Daniel 7 that the fourth sea beast becomes 2 kingdoms (Imperial and papal Rome) that has ten horns. The increase of knowledge in Daniel expands and explains the symbolism in Daniel 2 (two legs 10 toes).

[hch]

My work has been to agitate until that which is foretold has come to pass for there is a danger in waiting to see if these things are so as there was a danger in waiting for the rain in Noah's day as compared to accepting the message and getting into the ark of safety before the rain began to fall. The 10 virgins are separated by their preparation beforehand and their failure to prepare until it is too late. For judgment will begin at the house of God. I pray that none will be so foolish as to wait until it is too late.

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH, it  is never safe to go beyond what the Bible says and to read into the Scripture  our own personal thoughts.  In Daniel  2, The Bible does NOT give any meaning to the fact that the image probably has two legs, two feet and ten toes. To read any meaning into that is to engage in eisegesis which  is never safe.  It is of interest that those who do this do it on a selective basis.  The Bible states that the 2nd kingdom has two arms, but it does not give meaning to that and that is ignored by those who want to give meaning to the legs and the toes.  In addition, the Bible tells us that the 3rd kingdom has two thighs (legs) and that is ignored by those who give meaning to the legs and the toes.

 In contrast to Daniel 2, Daniel 7 is more specific and it gives meaning to more elements of the dream.  It gives meaning to the 10 horns.  So, it  is proper for us to discuss that meaning.  But, Daniel 7 does not give meaning to the  four wings of the 3rd beast.  Anyone who attempts to attach a Biblical meaning to those is engaging in eisegesis,

I will acknowledge that it may be of interest to speculate on such issues, as long as  we acknowledge that we are speculating, may be wrong and do not suggest that our human speculations are what the Bible teaches.

My issues to some of the speculation about President Obama and a 3rd term is related to the attempt to attribute such to a teaching of the Bible, instead of purely human reasoning.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The Wanderer has posted a link to an interesting video which places more authority in a 1907 novel than it does in the Bible.

NOTE:  I am not suggesting that the video presents the view of The Wanderer.

 

 

[Samie]

20 hours ago, hch said:

The 1335 days will end 20 January 2017 when President Obama will exalt himself by his own authority to be America's President for a third term. The abomination that President Obama set up was to exalt himself and it will be fulfilled at the end of the 1335 days.

^KJV Daniel 12:11-12   

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

It appears, to me, from the above verses that the setting up of the AoD is at the end of the 1290 days.  If the 1335 days will end 20 Jan 2017, then 1290 days ended 06 December 2016.  Any event of particular relevance to the AoD that occurred on Dec 6, 2016?

[hch]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

The Wanderer has posted a link to an interesting video which places more authority in a 1907 novel than it does in the Bible.

NOTE:  I am not suggesting that the video presents the view of The Wanderer.

Gregory you pretty much summed it up. When it comes to presenting the word of God and trying to get people to study it, so many folks overwhelmingly turn to conspiracy theories, dreams that are flooding the net, and novels to get their information. Everything seems to get jumbled together as though it is of the same value. The common is mixed with the Holy. It is like mixing a little bit of medicine or something good with the poison.

[hch]

5 hours ago, Samie said:

^KJV Daniel 12:11-12   

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

It appears, to me, from the above verses that the setting up of the AoD is at the end of the 1290 days.  If the 1335 days will end 20 Jan 2017, then 1290 days ended 06 December 2016.  Any event of particular relevance to the AoD that occurred on Dec 6, 2016?

 

Samie, 

 

Since the passage in question was fulfilled in 1843 initially, the wording might be different if we were to take it to Strong's and do a thorough word study for the endtime final fulfillment. I have not done it yet.

 

President Obama toured a tornado site in Moore, Oklahoma.

 

"And it's a reminder, as Scripture often is, that God has a plan, and it's important, though, that we also recognize that we're an instrument of his will." President Obama, 26 May 2013

 

The 1290 days ended, 6 December 2016.

 

"The power of the presidency is awesome, but it is supposed to be bound by you, our citizens." President Obama 6 December 2016.

 

Read the entire speech on counter terrorism. He mentions the 2 Islamic powers that he and GW have plucked up (Afghanistan and Iraq) and Iran (the 3rd power that is pending to be plucked up)

 

The 1335 days end on 20 January 2017 when Donald Trump is supposed to be inaugurated.

 

I have been praying about this and a week or 2 weeks ago, the Lord gave me a dream (for my own edification). It does not replace the Scriptures that I have shared (but the two witnesses in it simply stated Wednesday the 18th). Wednesday and the date of 18 rang loud in my head as I awoke from that power nap. And sure enough, the Wednesday before the Inauguration is the 18th. It was nothing spectacular. My wife was in the front room of a house I had never been in visiting with an old friend. I did not disturb their visit and went into the kitchen. As I turned two beings were there that said "Wednesday 18." And I awoke. 

 

God promises "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions" (Joel 2:28). [And being as close to 70 as I am, I could probably pass for an old man.]

 

I am encouraged that God will fulfill His word as He has promised and He strengthens us for the trial and gives us courage to accept His word, believe it and share it.

 

[hch]

6 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

HCH, it  is never safe to go beyond what the Bible says and to read into the Scripture  our own personal thoughts.  In Daniel  2, The Bible does NOT give any meaning to the fact that the image probably has two legs, two feet and ten toes. To read any meaning into that is to engage in eisegesis which  is never safe.  It is of interest that those who do this do it on a selective basis.  The Bible states that the 2nd kingdom has two arms, but it does not give meaning to that and that is ignored by those who want to give meaning to the legs and the toes.  In addition, the Bible tells us that the 3rd kingdom has two thighs (legs) and that is ignored by those who give meaning to the legs and the toes.

 In contrast to Daniel 2, Daniel 7 is more specific and it gives meaning to more elements of the dream.  It gives meaning to the 10 horns.  So, it  is proper for us to discuss that meaning.  But, Daniel 7 does not give meaning to the  four wings of the 3rd beast.  Anyone who attempts to attach a Biblical meaning to those is engaging in eisegesis,

I will acknowledge that it may be of interest to speculate on such issues, as long as  we acknowledge that we are speculating, may be wrong and do not suggest that our human speculations are what the Bible teaches.

My issues to some of the speculation about President Obama and a 3rd term is related to the attempt to attribute such to a teaching of the Bible, instead of purely human reasoning.

 

Gregory

You make a great point.  But sometimes we use sound principles of Bible study that are inappropriately discounted. And sometimes those who think that they are using sound principles are breaking all the rules of common sense and don't have a clue. That is why it is good to remember and review Christ's words "How readest thou?"  lest we stray from rightly dividing the word of truth in favor of an incorrect methodology.

 

Rejoice for our Lord Cometh! Amen Amen Amen!

[CoAspen]

Quote

 When it comes to presenting the word of God and trying to get people to study it, so many folks overwhelmingly turn to conspiracy theories, dreams that are flooding the net, and novels to get their information. Everything seems to get jumbled together as though it is of the same value. The common is mixed with the Holy. It is like mixing a little bit of medicine or something good with the poison.

Do you not see that you're insertion of Obama and other ideas into Biblical texts is very near to being a 'conspiracy theory'?

>conspiracy theorynouna belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.<We could get technical amd say "Obama is not a covert organization", so therefore to say that.......but when you say he will do such and such, with out his name being mentioned or being described in the Bible, we have something akin to a conspiracy theory.

[Samie]

2 hours ago, hch said:

Samie, 

 

Since the passage in question was fulfilled in 1843 initially, the wording might be different if we were to take it to Strong's and do a thorough word study for the endtime final fulfillment. I have not done it yet.

. . .

The 1290 days ended, 6 December 2016.

I believe that Jesus was referring to a singular abomination of desolation (AoD) which when set up at the end of 1290 days will trigger the occurrence of the great tribulation = time of trouble.  No AoD was set up in 1843, neither on 06 Dec 2016.

And in the language of Dan 12:1, 2, the time of trouble occurs just at the verge of the Second Coming.

[pierrepaul]

HCH - I've read through this thread and I have a few questions if you will indulge me. These were likely answered in your other posts, but I must have missed them.

1. Why do you consider September 11, 2001 to be a significant date in Bible prophecy? (I agree that the September 11, 2001 events were significant in US and recent world history, but lots of significant events such as the Sarejevo assassination starting WWI, the Russian revolution, the start of WWII, the Hiroshima bombing, etc. have no reference in Bible prophecy).

2. Secondly, why do you consider President Reagan as a significant figure? He is not the only president to live past 91 - Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, George HW Bush have all lived past 91 and the latter two are still alive.

3. Why do you date the "short time" that Western Europe was united from 1929? There was no semblance of West European unity until the post-WWII era.

Thank you and God bless you.

[hch]

3 hours ago, pierrepaul said:

HCH - I've read through this thread and I have a few questions if you will indulge me. These were likely answered in your other posts, but I must have missed them.

1. Why do you consider September 11, 2001 to be a significant date in Bible prophecy? (I agree that the September 11, 2001 events were significant in US and recent world history, but lots of significant events such as the Sarejevo assassination starting WWI, the Russian revolution, the start of WWII, the Hiroshima bombing, etc. have no reference in Bible prophecy).

2. Secondly, why do you consider President Reagan as a significant figure? He is not the only president to live past 91 - Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, George HW Bush have all lived past 91 and the latter two are still alive.

3. Why do you date the "short time" that Western Europe was united from 1929? There was no semblance of West European unity until the post-WWII era.

Thank you and God bless you.

1) September 11 is identified in Daniel 7:11-12 season and time 91 years. Reagan turned 90 on 6 Feb 2001. 9/11/01 marked a mild stone in history in his 91st year. Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton were all alive and out of office on that day as the prophecy stipulated. And the little horn that was speaking great things who plucked up Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton was John-Paul II, who received a deadly wound that was healed, toppled communism without firing a shot, all the world wondered after him, and he died 42 months after 9/11/01 (4/2/04).

2) Reagan was the great orator (lion's mouth in Revelation 13). Reagan Bush I and clinton are the only three horns that align with John-Paul II, the little horn that was speaking great things (Dies Domini). Knowing the identity of Reagan, Bush I, & Clinton (the kings from the earth- America) insert them in the prophecy Dan 7 (lion, bear, leopard). Then follow the prophecy to the 4th beast (2 presidents as tho they were one like pagan and papal Rome).  Then the prophecy talks about the beast having 10 horns (Truman to Clinton) 3 were plucked up (R B C). Compared to Revelation 13 The deadly wound was healed in 1929 when secular kingdom was restored to pope/king. It is allotted one hour 83 years 4 months from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013. Only 7 popes ruled as solo kings for those 83 years 4 months. The power of the papal beast transitioned to the beast with lamblike horns during the reign of the 7th pope (Benedict). Since the horns on the papal beast depicted reigning American presidents from truman to Clinton, the next president in the sequence that it the first one on the earth beast Bush II. And the beast only has 2 lamblike horns - Obama is the last. Revelation 17 nails it down when it states that Benedict reigns a short space. By Babylonian custom after he finished John-Paul II's final year, he became a solo pope 28 March 2006 and quit 28 February 2013 (month and a day short of 7 years... 7 is the # of completeness as it relates the the churches to the end of time).

3) I don't date the "short time" as you suggest. The judgment hour of the dead began 22 October 1844 (the papacy was dead having died in 1798) the time allotted for the Judgment of the dead was 1 hour (83 years 4 months) so that it ended on 22 February 1928. Mussolini healed the secular wound beginning in Feb 1929 through June 1929. The wound was healed by the Day of Atonement in 1929 so the Judgment hour of the Living began 14 October 1929 and continued for 83 years 4 months until  14 February 2013. During that hour all 7 solo popes/kings ruled and the power transferred to the beast with the 2 lamblike horns (GW and Obama). The power transfer from the papal beast to the earth beast (GW) was on 17 May 2006. 

Quote

“Truth is progressive; and those who are preparing for the last great day will go forward in accordance with the accumulated light which shines upon them from the prophecies and from the lessons of Christ and the apostles.” (RH, January 5, 1886 par. 6 )

Quote

“The prophecies, so far as they had been fulfilled, had been fulfilled literally; that all the various figures, metaphors, parables, similitudes, etc., were either explained in their immediate connection, or the terms in which they were expressed were defined in other scriptures, and when thus explained, were to be literally understood.” (GC 320.2) 

 

 

From the lessons of Christ, in the parable of the 11^th hour—the hour just before the Bridegroom (Christ) comes—the first Greek letter alpha (A) is last and the last Greek letter omega (W also written W) is first. How does reversal of the AW (AW), Alpha Omega sequencing that represents Jesus, to the WA (WA) compare to the five Presidents identified in Daniel’s Prophecy on the eve of Christ’s Second Advent? The householder went out five times to get workers for his vineyard: 1) early, 2) at the third hour, 3) at the sixth hour, 4) at the ninth hour, and 5) at the eleventh hour (cf Matthew 20:1-6). Five sequential American Presidents have been identified with the omega alpha sequencing. President Obama, who does not have a W in his name, is included.

The first A shall be last and the last W shall be first:

WA = Ronald Wilson ReAgan

WA = George Herbert WAlker Bush

WA = WilliAm Jefferson Clinton

WA = George WAlker Bush

 

George Walker Bush & Barack Obama are depicted as one

WA = George Walker Bush & Barack ObamA

There is much more, but I am getting my book ready for 20 January 2017 when President Obama takes his third term.

I hope I answered you questions without getting too sidetracked. My dyslexia kicks in sometimes and I answer what I thought I was asked and don't always get the point that they wanted.

 

 

[hch]

9 hours ago, hch said:

... During that hour all 7 solo popes/kings ruled and the power transferred to the beast with the 2 lamblike horns (GW and Obama). The power transfer from the papal beast to the earth beast (GW) was on 17 May 2006...

I misspoke above. The statement should read "After that hour when all 7 solo popes/kings had ruled, the power transfer from the papal beast to the earth beast with the two lamblike horns (GW and Obama). The power transferred to GW during the 70 weeks from 18 June 2006 through 20 October 2007 and then to Obama when he was inaugurated."

Too many facts in my head. A senior moment. My dyslexia. Whatever. The facts were not stated correctly  

[Gregory Matthews]

Well, in a very few hours . . .

[hch]

2 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Well, in a very few hours . . .

It is so interesting. I just opened my email to find a brief note from a virtual stranger (someone I write to a couple times a year or less, who I never met and don't know how I met him) he asked, "are you doing ok?" [knowing the times, there's a lot of love in that question.]

I answered. Doing fine [because God is faithful. and then I shared a brief thought that I had sent to others:]

 

My position:

When Babylon fell, Daniel was its third ruler. Babylonian kings ruled from March 29 to March 28. Babylonian kings were head of church and state. 

 

I understood why Pope Benedict resigned in February 2013 according to the Babylonian calendar and that there will soon be a third pope (Satan posing as John-Paul II). 

 

Since Obama is identified as Americas's last President in Bible prophecy, if Trump is inaugurated, He will finish the time allotted to President Obama as if Obama's time as President were counted according to the Babylonian calendar. In that scenario, Christ will Return before 29 March 2017. By Babylonian custom, if Trump or any other person should be America's President on 29 March 2017, then I have completely misunderstood Daniel, Revelation, the Spirit of Prophecy, and the Holy Spirit's leading. 

 

The possibility of Trump or someone else being President for less than 3 months is something that I have said for years , but it was too much like time setting so I never focused on it. And of course, those who did not want me to be right about Obama, will not want me to be right about Trump. But the final 70 weeks of Daniel 9 end on 11 March 2017 (the Sabbath that ends as Purim begins).

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

By the way. The doctors have finally found out what is wrong with my wife. An area in her brain is shrinking unusually fast. It is progressive and fatal. There is no known treatment or cure. She is currently confined to a wheelchair. She can stand with assistance, but her legs are so wobbly that it almost takes 2 to walk her.

 

[phkrause]

33 minutes ago, hch said:

By the way. The doctors have finally found out what is wrong with my wife. An area in her brain is shrinking unusually fast. It is progressive and fatal. There is no known treatment or cure. She is currently confined to a wheelchair. She can stand with assistance, but her legs are so wobbly that it almost takes 2 to walk her.

Very sad to hear that hch! Will add your wife and you to our pray-list.

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH has spoken:

Quote

During my study into the early hours of this morning, the Lord blessed me with the understanding that the 1290 days of Daniel 12 have begun and ended. The 1335 days will end 20 January 2017 when President Obama will exalt himself by his own authority to be America's President for a third term. The abomination that President Obama set up was to exalt himself and it will be fulfilled at the end of the 1335 days. The info is readily available so anyone who is interested can pray and study and find it.

and again:

Quote

Since Obama is identified as Americas's last President in Bible prophecy, if Trump is inaugurated, He will finish the time allotted to President Obama as if Obama's time as President were counted according to the Babylonian calendar. In that scenario, Christ will Return before 29 March 2017. By Babylonian custom, if Trump or any other person should be America's President on 29 March 2017, then I have completely misunderstood Daniel, Revelation, the Spirit of Prophecy, and the Holy Spirit's leading. 

EISEGESIS

 

 

 

[hch]

19 minutes ago, phkrause said:

Very sad to hear that hch! Will add your wife and you to our pray-list.

Thank you. There is the consolation that she now knows what the problem is. She won't have to go to 30 specialists and undergo more testing and new drugs and the uncertainty of not knowing. 

And an aside: I am consoled that I saw President Trump take the oath of office with my own eyes (on the tube).

I rejoice for my redemption draws neigh. And the things of this world that seem so important will soon pass away.

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH, may the Lord be with both you and your wife in this time of stress.

 

[Samie]

[Gail]

All the best to you hch and I wish that your wife will not suffer terribly as the disease progresses. It would be awesome to have total healing now, but if not Jesus is coming soon with the ultimate answer to our life's suffering.  ((( hch + sweetheart )))

Re: Trump- I think it will get worse before it gets better. I am hoping he will surprise us all.