Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[Martn]

17 hours ago, hch said:

the BOM

BOM is VERY much a part of the four angels' message.

Of course many will not see it that way, and to them it will seem off topic, but it is not.

[Nic Samojluk]

23 hours ago, Martn said:

BOM is VERY much a part of the four angels' message.

Of course many will not see it that way, and to them it will seem off topic, but it is not.

And BOM means?

[hch]

3 hours ago, Nic Samojluk said:

And BOM means?

NIc,

I suspect that Martn is using BOM as abbreviation for Book of Mormon

[hch]

On 9/9/2016 at 10:44 AM, JoeMo said:

An SDA unbeliever - sounds like an oxymoron to me. How can one be an SDA and an unbeliever at the same time?  Or was he/she an "unbeliever" because he/she doesn't accept your version of the truth?  If that's the case, you're being a little judgmental and condemning, don't you think?

For truth to be truth, It has to be True

The 3 angels' messages were true in Daniel's day, they were true in 1844, and they were true in 2013 when they repeated.

But they were not and are not considered to be truth for everyone who hears them.

So the bottom line is that from my study of Scripture, President Obama is going to be the man in charge when the image beast forms. The Laodiceans that have not studied the matter to its logical conclusion, are waiting on the sidelines to see if that is Truth. They are lukewarm or uncertain.

Thus faith and sight are in opposition on the eve of the Bridegroom's arrival. When the Bridegroom is here, it will be too late to muster the faith that is needed to be ready for His arrival. Now is the acceptable time to get the oil of faith and develop a character that trusts the word of God as it is written rather than as it is assumed to read. 

It takes faith in the word of God to declare that President Obama is going to be America's last President (he will be President when Jesus comes), that Iran and America will go to war before January 20, 2017, that Mr.Obama will turn on America's constitution (and then on God's covenant), etc.

Some folks are afraid "what if you are wrong?"

They have it backwards--they should be afraid of "what if you're right?"

The parable of the Ten Virgins tells us to Wake Up before it is too late. 

I have agitated this matter to the best of my knowledge since 1997. I have learned much since then and I have been blessed to grow in Christ as I study the word. And my heart goes out for those who won't give the subject a fair study now. They are doing their souls unspeakable harm. But it is up to the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. And when those things which are true come to pass that will come... there will be a shaking of our faith to its foundation.

The Laodiceans will no longer be lukewarm-- they will be hot or cold (wise or foolish) saved or lost. And what we have been years learning will have to be relearned in a few months with the trash that has crept in since 1844 being cast away.

In the meantime, there is a proof reader working on my newest manuscript that has asked the right questions in the context of the study so that (though it is a difficult study to make plain) it will be very understandable by all who read it.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

2 hours ago, hch said:

I suspect that Martn is using BOM as abbreviation for Book of Mormon

Thanks!

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

1/ True, I guess thats why there is no counterfeit three dollar bill, because there is no such thing as a real one. And likewise, the three angel's message. There are many counterfeits, because there is a real one. I don't think you have demonstrated very well why your view is not counterfeit.

Wander,

I'm glad you are thinking. It is helpful when a problem challenges the mind.

But I don't know what else I could have done or what else I can do...

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

2/ A person can have a lot of faith and still not have some point/s in Scripture straight. Look at how the disciples viewed Jesus on the walk to Emmaus. I fear that you may be on that walk yourself. (not everything about that walk was "bad." Some of it was pretty awesome)

Wanderer,

That was a hopeful journey. Jesus met the disciples where they were and gave them Scriptures to point out their errors and point them to the straight and narrow. He did not leave them in error.

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

3/ Even Jesus did not once relegate anyone to "Laodiceans"  just because they did not see the Scriptures the way He did...

Wanderer,

you say "Even Jesus did not once relegate anyone to "Laodiceans"  just because they did not see the Scriptures the way He did."

Who said this to the Laodiceans? "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" (Revelation 3:16).

And what was the reason that Jesus gave for vomiting the Laodiceans? "Because thou sayest, I...have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" (3:17).

And what happens to the rich men? "And the rich men...hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb" (6:15-16).

I'm not Jesus, so I won't call the Laodiceans a brood of vipers, or scribes and Pharisees, or the blind leading the blind or anything like that. But I will speak the word as I see it and learn from those who take pity on me to show me where I have made any errors in my study that I may have a more perfect understanding.

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

3/...Please, believe me when i say that my posting this is not personal. I really do not see validity in what you say here. Even if Obama does remain in power, what you say on this point, in my mind, still cannot be right. The whole of Bible prophecy is called "the sure word of prophecy."  And your theory on this remains very unsure.  I will say more when i have time my friend.

Wanderer,

You have hit the nail on the head. "Even if Obama does remain in power, what you say on this point, in my mind, still cannot be right."

It is a battle for the mind. Though I said 8 times from 9/30/2011 through 9/30/2012 that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the spring of 2013 and he resigned in February 2013 so that he was not pope after the Spring of 2013, Laodiceans do not believe that it is a fulfillment of Revelation 17 because they do not read Revelation 17 correctly. So when the correct reading of the prophecy is confirmed by current events, what I say on the point "still cannot be right."

When I point out that Revelation 18 is upon us:

1) Babylon is fallen because of her fornications...Benedict resigned because of the priests loose loins.

2) Babylon is the cage of every unclean bird... Pope Francis demonstrated that when he had birds projected on the facade of St Peter's [a spiritual truth literally fulfilled] 

3) The king of the earth [President Obama] declaring that Babylon's fornication [male with male] is a human right within the marriage relationship.

4)The merchants of the earth are lamenting the fall of Babylon. Brexit is a confirmation that Daniel 2 is true. Europe cannot remain united after God declared that they will not cleave together though they were permitted to bond for an hour [83-years 4-months].

5) ISIS is drying up the Euphrates in preparation for Christ's Advent.

But the position of many is "Even if...what you say on this point, in my mind, still cannot be right."

It is a battle for the mind. Discernment is of God and now is the time to pray to be filled with the Holy Spirit that we may study to show ourselves approved of God, His workman, that need not be ashamed because we rightly divide the word of truth!

[Alchemy]

The Three Angels Messages are alive and relevant to this day.

Many are trying to make them seem irrelevant, but, that is impossible.

[Alchemy]

On September 13, 2016 at 3:20 AM, hch said:

Wanderer,

You have hit the nail on the head. "Even if Obama does remain in power, what you say on this point, in my mind, still cannot be right."

It is a battle for the mind. Though I said 8 times from 9/30/2011 through 9/30/2012 that Pope Benedict would not be pope after the spring of 2013 and he resigned in February 2013 so that he was not pope after the Spring of 2013, Laodiceans do not believe that it is a fulfillment of Revelation 17 because they do not read Revelation 17 correctly. So when the correct reading of the prophecy is confirmed by current events, what I say on the point "still cannot be right."

When I point out that Revelation 18 is upon us:

1) Babylon is fallen because of her fornications...Benedict resigned because of the priests loose loins.

2) Babylon is the cage of every unclean bird... Pope Francis demonstrated that when he had birds projected on the facade of St Peter's [a spiritual truth literally fulfilled] 

3) The king of the earth [President Obama] declaring that Babylon's fornication [male with male] is a human right within the marriage relationship.

4)The merchants of the earth are lamenting the fall of Babylon. Brexit is a confirmation that Daniel 2 is true. Europe cannot remain united after God declared that they will not cleave together though they were permitted to bond for an hour [83-years 4-months].

5) ISIS is drying up the Euphrates in preparation for Christ's Advent.

But the position of many is "Even if...what you say on this point, in my mind, still cannot be right."

It is a battle for the mind. Discernment is of God and now is the time to pray to be filled with the Holy Spirit that we may study to show ourselves approved of God, His workman, that need not be ashamed because we rightly divide the word of truth!

But, Pope Benedict is still a Pope! He doesn't do all the traveling and kissing of feet, but, Benedict is still a Pope!

Remember, Bible prophecy must be fulfilled as the Bible says it should be fulfilled. Our own man-made ideas don't mean anything.

[Martn]

On 9/10/2016 at 1:15 PM, Martn said:

The BOM is what first convinced me, absolutely convinced me, a Jew, that Jesus was and is a real, historical, and miraculous person.

Apparently that part of my posts on the BOM didn't get through the filter.

In case anyone has missed it, let me be clear --our Master is the all of ALL I think, say, and do.

I may not often use the name Jesus ('cause I don't believe that was and is his true name), but the man is very much a part of my whole being.

Jus' 'cause I don't believe in him the same way Christians do doesn't mean I don't believe in him. All things which are true of him I do believe.

[Martn]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

 this thread..did it ever occurr to the would be prophets here tha that just might be a little out of our realm and all in Gods realm

Some things the Revelator was told not to write, because they are not for us to know. But the four angels' message is written, and we can read it. Since it is written, and we can read it, we can understand it. If we dare (if we have faith).

[hch]

7 hours ago, Alchemy said:

But, Pope Benedict is still a Pope! He doesn't do all the traveling and kissing of feet, but, Benedict is still a Pope!

Remember, Bible prophecy must be fulfilled as the Bible says it should be fulfilled. Our own man-made ideas don't mean anything.

Alchemy,

You are correct as far as you take it, but you stop too soon.

The popes identified in Revelation 17: Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I (are the 5 that were fallen; they were dead when history met prophecy).

The one that is was Pope John-Paul II (he was alive after receiving a deadly wound).

And the pope for a short space is Benedict XVI, who resigned a month and day short of 7-years, which is the number of completeness (a short space).

These 7 popes were in power after the deadly wound was healed by Mussolini in 1929 And they were all solo popes; until Benedict retired. Now the papacy has a dual monarchy like the one of Ancient Babylon. When Daniel was made the third ruler in the kingdom, Babylon fell.

When Satan personates John-Paul II, there will be three pope as Babylon had three kings the night that it fell. ISIS is now drying up the Euphrates to prepare for the kings of the east.

[hch]

Quote

 

Wanderer wrote:

Theres a whole lot a sortin going on..in this thread..did it ever occurr to the would be prophets here tha that just might be a little out of our realm and all in Gods realm.

 

Wanderer,

The problem as I understand it; is not going outside of our realm because God promised:

De 29:29  "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

The problem is settling in on what is truth before the book of Daniel was completely opened in the endtime. Thus letting a partial fulfillment from the past serve as a complete and final fulfillment so much so that when the complete and final fulfillment is upon us, it is not understood correctly. Thus by not following the light, Jesus moves away from those who are steadfast in yesterday's Present Truth.  Thus the foundation upon which the building should be built is admired as if it is the complete building.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

Thus letting a partial fulfillment from the past serve as a complete and final fulfillment so much so that when the complete and final fulfillment is upon us, it is not understood correctly.

I don't think anything from Daniel 8 - 12 has even had partial fulfillment yet.  Maybe "applications" but not fulfillment.  These prophecies all involve the time of the end - the "distant future" from Daniel's perspective.  See Daniel 8:17, 19, and 26.

[hch]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't think anything from Daniel 8 - 12 has even had partial fulfillment yet.  Maybe "applications" but not fulfillment.  These prophecies all involve the time of the end - the "distant future" from Daniel's perspective.  See Daniel 8:17, 19, and 26.

The ''distant future" is upon us -- The many days in Daniel 8:26 the term days appears 2008 times in scripture. It is like saying it shall be for 2008, which is an interesting coincidence because some things in this prophecy were fulfilled in 2008. 

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Well; I did climb the mountain, and got my "perspective."  We should be so busy climbing the mountain of prayer, that we have no time for such unsure words of prophecy which do not have Jesus at the center, and at the top, and at the bottom. See my devotional thread "They Get Me By," later tonight.

Wanderer,

Since so many who should be watchmen in the Lord's cause have had no time to study the sure word or prophecy, just rehashing what others have studied in the past, that which should be sure and firmly grounded is unsure and vague.

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Daniel, Chapter nine might have some "fulfillment" as well as "application, many times over too I might add. Don't you see any possibilities?

Since Daniel 9 identifies the exact day that Antichrist was anointed, I would agree that it is important for us to understand it.

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

I do not understand it as "Jesus moves away from us"  just because we do not see certain points of Scripture, exactly the same.  "Doing all the words of this law,' has always been possible, whether it be during Daniel's time, or during creation week, in genesis, chapter one. The book of Daniel still has NOT been "completely opened," and there is evidence to suggest that that will only happen when we get our prophecies centered properly on "Christ, and Him crucified." No need for popes, or Obamas, or any other characters. Like a former member of this forum used to say before they passed away, years ago: "Jesus is enough," and this is especially true when it comes to the book of Daniel, and of The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Christ, and Him crucified is the center, or hub of the wheel, and all the other doctrines are the spokes. All truths are vested with power and influence, according to their relation to this theme. Its time to rework the theories and the predictions.

Wanderer,

 As I recall in one of Sister White's writings: When Jesus moved from the Holy Place into the Most Holy Place in 1844, those who did not follow Him there -- were left worshiping before the empty throne and Satan took the seat where Christ had been and breathed his spirit upon those who thought that they were in the presence of God.

Seems like there is a passage that says something about those who have will receive more and those who have not will have their little bit taken away. The spiritual application of that principle encourages me to study, study, study, & pray not a little

If God did not want us to know about popes and Obama, He would not have put them there next to Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus, etc.

Quote

 Bible truth is of heavenly origin, and sanctifies the receiver. It refines the taste, improves the judgment, and ennobles the character.  {RH, October 7, 1884 par. 13}  

[hch]

My Sabbath School teacher, is praying that I will see the error of my beliefs before it is too late. She has told me that she does not understand what I teach, but she knows that it is wrong. But rather than study what I am teaching and comparing it to Scripture, she gets a snippet and compares it to what SDA writers have written about others who she supposes teach something similar. Thus she is makes straw-man presentations that are incorrect and concludes that my position is incorrect as well. But we will not have much time to wait to see that the Lord knows what His word says and He knows what it means.

Oh that we would study to show ourselves approved pf God and need no reproof!

[hch]

Quote

I was talking about possibilities as in something to show how Christ-centered Daniel chapter nine is.

God is not taken by surprise. Yes, Daniel 9 shows that Christ fulfilled prophecy. And it shows that antichrist is counterfeiting Christ's life and ministry as much as God will allow. And 2000-years after Christ lived on earth, we can learn from a book that was written 600-years before Christ about our Savior and about His arch rival. God is Awesome!

[CoAspen]

Quote

.....we would study to show ourselves approved pf God.......

Being 'approved' of/by God is not something we do and maybe that is where so many people find fault with your views. You seem to spend much time trying to 'prove' when there is no need. since Christ has already paid the price for our ticket to heaven.

[Martn]

23 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't think anything from Daniel 8 - 12 has even had partial fulfillment yet.  Maybe "applications" but not fulfillment.

As I read it, the 2300 days (years) began when Jerusalem and its People/Temple (the daily) was removed and replaced with its couterfeit (Greco-Rome). So we have about another 300 years to go until the Temple Mount (the Sanctuary) is fully restored to its original People --the Jews.

The symbols, in this same framework, appear also to refer to Jesus (Jesus the Jew, that is), removed and replaced by Greco-Rome (including Greco-Roman Christianity/Islam, under the impostor Jesus to come), with the true (Jewish) Jesus being restored to the scene sometime after the 2300 years are done.

In ancient Babylonian astrology/prophecy, days are in fact used to represent years. Also in Babylonian astrology, an astrological Age --in our case the Age of Pisces (the Age of the Fish, symbol of the Church, the Church Age)-- is said to be about 2300 years in length.

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

The gospel message is to be repeated on a daily basis, not just yelled out once. There is nothing wrong with repeating the old old story. We do this by how we conduct ourselves in daily life. It is the only "sure word" that many people will get. No one qualifies for a preeminent message because they have studied more than most others.

God is seldom found among the majority (except maybe at Calvary when the mob was taking Christ to what they had planned to be His doom)

The repetition of the Gospel in the 3 angels' messages is not just repeating the historical account that the judgment hour of the dead began in 1844. Knowledge has increased. We now know that the Judgment Hour of the Dead has ended and the Judgment Hour of the living has begun and it is in its final stages (the sealing time immediately before Christ Comes). The urgency of getting the gospel to the world is at a crisis level. What we fail to do now will be most difficult to do very soon!