Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[hch]

51 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

I haven't read the book yet; I just read the little sample on Amazon.  I didn't say I believed what was in the book; I just thought it was interesting that the authors had arrived at the same conclusion (concerning popes at least) as you did.  That being said, I will likely read the book; it comes highly recommended by many people whom I respect.

As far as their " strange connection to aliens and the supernatural world", you must be referring to their dreams and visions.  Didn't EGW have dreams and visions?  Yes.  Was she connected to aliens - no.  Was she connected to the supernatural world?  Yes (arguably).  Were other prophets in the Bible connected to the supernatural world? Absolutely.  A connection to the supernatural world could be a gift of the Spirit; not a bad thing.  Just because they didn't mention Obama or reach the same conclusion you reached by a different method doesn't mean they are wrong.  Why are you so hesitant to even consider others' viewpoints?

JoeMo,

The things of the Spirit are in conflict with the world. From all indications: these two authors will lead away from God rather than helping with the Spiritual.

[Gregory Matthews]

There are a number of different groups and/or people on the Internet who have made the same prediction as HCH in regard to the Popes and the Presidents.

No, I have neither the time nor the interest in documenting my statement.  But, it is true.  HCH is clearly not the first to make such predictions.

Some of these people have been around long enough tor their prediction as to a pope tail and have a pope be replaced by another when they said the X was the  last in world history.

 

[hch]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

There are a number of different groups and/or people on the Internet who have made the same prediction as HCH in regard to the Popes and the Presidents.

No, I have neither the time nor the interest in documenting my statement.  But, it is true.  HCH is clearly not the first to make such predictions.

Some of these people have been around long enough tor their prediction as to a pope tail and have a pope be replaced by another when they said the X was the  last in world history.

 

So nice to hear from you Gregory,

I am not be the first nor do I expect to be the last.

But my source is Bible study and prayer. Some of the others that I have been made aware of establish their teachings on other things.

1) Some anti Obama folks that get their info from conspiracy theories.

2) Some use the Catholic prophecies to figure out endtime events.

3) Some folks depend on dreams and visions.

4) And others run with all sorts of rumors or speculation.

I study God's word and prayerfully (because we have a more sure word of prophecy) and I compare it to current events because SOP shows that is a reliable technique.

Quote

 

The prophecies of Daniel and of John [the Revelator] are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which every one should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves.  {7BC 949.6} 

 

 That pretty much says it all. Not yesterday's fulfillments that were understood before 1844 (the time of the end) but their fulfillments that happen in these last days. So now we have two classes: those who are linking prophecy with current fulfillments and those who are not. 

 

 

[hch]

The ongoing escalation in Syria.

America "accidentally" attacked Syrian troops during the ceasefire.

Then the UN aide convey to the US backed troops was bombed by either Russian or Syrian Aircraft

(both were in the area: the cease fire has been laid to rest.

Daniel 11:44  "But tidings out of the east [Iran] and out of the north [Russia] shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many." [supplemented to show how I currently understand the prophecy at this time.]
 

[hch]

Quote

Today the voice of mercy is calling, and Jesus is drawing men by the cords of his love; but the day will come when Jesus will put on the garments of vengeance, and those who have no oil in their vessels with their lamps, will be surprised and confounded in their destitution. The wickedness of the world is increasing every day, and when a certain line is reached, the register will be closed, and the account settled. There will be no more a sacrifice for sin. The Lord cometh. Long has mercy extended a hand of love, of patience and forbearance, toward a guilty world. The invitation has been given, "Let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me." But men have presumed upon his mercy and refused his grace.  {RH, March 27, 1894 par. 13} 

 

[hch]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

The above quotes I supplied are also solidly backed up in Scripture.

There is something to be said for giving the right message at the right time. 

Quote

  Agitate, agitate, agitate. The subjects which we present to the world must be to us a living reality. It is important that in defending the doctrines which we consider fundamental articles of faith we should never allow ourselves to employ arguments that are not wholly sound. These may avail to silence an opposer, but they do not honor the truth. We should present sound arguments, that will not only silence our opponents, but will bear the closest and most searching scrutiny. With those who have educated themselves as debaters there is great danger that they will not handle the word of God with fairness. In meeting an opponent it should be our earnest effort to present subjects in such a manner as to awaken conviction in his mind, instead of seeking merely to give confidence to the believer.  {5T 708.1} 

 

 

[JoeMo]

No one really "knows" how prophetic events will unfold until they unfold. No matter what the end-time scenario turns out to be, our main goal should be to be ready for Jesus to come.  If we are not ready for Jesus to come, we won't be part of His Kingdom regardless of the scenario; and regardless of the 3 angels message.  Their message is not only alive, it's urgent  at this point.

[hch]

9 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

But you are not presenting "sound arguments"  and unless "the message" is one of Christ and Him crucified" as the core argument of whatever you teach, then its a falsehood. Your Obama and Pope stuff is way over the line

That is a false argument. Using a double standard.

Have you presented Christ in every post that you added to this topic?

The best way to lead is by example.

[hch]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

No one really "knows" how prophetic events will unfold until they unfold. No matter what the end-time scenario turns out to be, our main goal should be to be ready for Jesus to come.  If we are not ready for Jesus to come, we won't be part of His Kingdom regardless of the scenario; and regardless of the 3 angels message.  Their message is not only alive, it's urgent  at this point.

We have a more sure word of prophecy.

When Maxwell was editor of the signs during WWII, he put out an issue that clearly said that Hitler would fail because Daniel 2 said that Europe would not cleave together.

The brethren were upset with his action because Hitler was sweeping across Europe and appeared unstoppable.

A correct view of Bible prophecy prevailed even thought it was not embraced by all the brethren and was at odds with the uncertainty that plagued most of them. They knew the prophecy, but by sight, current events were not aligning with what they knew to be true---so they hesitated in the valley of unbelief.

An aside: I have written 9 books on Daniel and Revelation with much prayer, Bible study, Spirit of prophecy research, and historical study. My testimony is that God knows what He is talking about in Bible prophecy. He tells us before hand so that we may make the needed preparations.  If we stay true to the word, we will be blessed. But Satan is too willing and able to cast his shadow over God's word and we are often too weak in faith to see beyond it.

[hch]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

No one really "knows" how prophetic events will unfold until they unfold. No matter what the end-time scenario turns out to be, our main goal should be to be ready for Jesus to come.  If we are not ready for Jesus to come, we won't be part of His Kingdom regardless of the scenario; and regardless of the 3 angels message.  Their message is not only alive, it's urgent  at this point.

JoeMo

The Holy Spirit inspired Bible prophecy. The Holy Spirit knows the meaning of what He inspired. The issue with the 10 virgins is that 5 of them had the Holy Spirit and 5 of them did not. And the ones that did not did not know their lack until it was too late to obtain what they lacked. If we do not have the Holy Spirit, we won't be ready for Jesus to come.

The Bible says we have a more sure word of prophecy. It is not called a more reliable way to guess. Though there are some things that we do not understand before the fact, there are many things that are revealed so that we could understand more than we do. But if we look to the world to find answers instead of God's word, we will find the world's answers that are at odds with what God would teach us. The results is to become confused. Satan is the author of confusion.

The fourth angel is joining the loud cry NOW. Yes it is urgent to give the right message at the right time based on Bible study.

 

[hch]

18 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I see that you think that is a great come back. Im just going to let you have it. You "win." 

There is no merit in winning at the expense of another's loss.

If I am giving the right message at the right time, it is Present Truth.

To reject God's word because the messenger is a faulty human is not as God would have it.

To give up is not the way to Jesus or the Kingdom.

Stand for what you know is right and study to be sure that you are right.

[hch]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

No its not. I set no standard for anyone, only for something.  I have been asking why He is not the center and foundation of your predictions, and they are indeed predictions. Your "points" above here are ad hominems of complete irrelevance to the OP I am not your example here on the forum for anything. It is becoming all too common for "private interpretations" to make grand pronouncements against all who "don't believe, complete with superfilous quotes that mean nothing so out of context; but there have been hundreds before you who have done the same and failed. When you are able to make christ the center and foundation of your "prophecy predictions," then I will listen to your "new light."

Wanderer,

Jesus is the focus of God's word, the Bible.

My postings have focused on understanding His word, thus on Jesus.

God knows the ending from the beginning and He reveals it to us so that we can trust Jesus.

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts" (2 Peter 1:19)

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private [idios fr. Gk] interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20). 

The 3rd angel is:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb" (Revelation 14:9-10).

An interpretation of the 3 angel's message on the eve of its fulfillment that fails to see that President Obama is identified in the prophecy is an idios interpretation.

It is not to the glory of God or the honor of Jesus to cling to an idios interpretation.

[hch]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Thats exactly what i am doing and then when I do it you start rattling on about how I practice "double standards." Everytime you do that to someone here who does not go for your private interpretation; you follow the same road of cat-calling and binge-insulting them with SOP whatever that is. Like I said before try checking the dictionary meanings of SOP and then come back here and tell us you are using THAT word correctly here.

Wanderer,

I believe that you are sincere. But even sincere people can be wrong.

To say that I do not uphold Jesus when I am commenting on a Bible passage is to say that the Bible passage did not uphold Jesus.

To set up Jesus as the standard and accuse me of failing to uplift Jesus without uplifting him in posts that are directed to me, appears to be a double standard from the perspective of the one that is receiving the criticism.

I suspect that SOP was used by Adventists to mean Spirit of Prophecy long before Standard Operational Procedures was ever coined. Which is a not a real issue because there are countless instances of initials having dual meanings like ABC: Adventist Book Center and American Broadcasting Company. Context. 

My Standard Operational Procedure is to use the Spirit of Prophecy to increase my understanding of the Bible. After reading the dictionary definition, when I used SOP, I was saying two things in that post. 

[JoeMo]

16 hours ago, hch said:

If I am giving the right message at the right time, it is Present Truth.

We'll know whether or not it is "present truth" soon enough - 3 months.

[Martn]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

We'll know whether or not it is "present truth" soon enough - 3 months.

And then we'll know for sure whose interpretation is actually "idios" as he calls our view.

[hch]

16 hours ago, JoeMo said:

We'll know whether or not it is "present truth" soon enough - 3 months.

In the days of Noah, they knew the truth when it started raining.

Should we expect it to be any different in our day?

[hch]

I certainly do not intend to embarrass anyone.

But the word of God is sure. And when folks fail to understand it, they get notions that are false that they think are well founded.

This was true in 1843. Jesus did not come.
It was true in 1844. Jesus did not come.

But the Adventists were sure that they were right.
But Jesus did not come!

 

Should we forget how God has led His people in the past?

Should we expect Him to lead differently now?

Jesus did not come in the past. He allowed them to have enough light to go with it and then He gave more light when the glimpse did the work that it was intended to do.

The new light is illuminating the Third Angel's Message. Before President Obama shows that he will implement the National Sunday law, prophecy has revealed that he will be the President to do it.

So when it happens, are we to disregard it because he did not fit into your reading of the Bible? 

True Bible study does not force fit one's opinion upon the Scripture. It studies and learns from the Scriptures and changes as knowledge is increased.

The example of the Jews is before us. Jesus did not fit their scenario of what the Bible said and they rejected Him in spite of the word of God that clearly pointed to Him as the Messiah.

In this situation, If I am wrong about President Obama, I face embarrassment. But if those who refuse to study the particulars are wrong the consequences are more dire. How does one undo their profession of unbelief? How does one contact everyone who was affected by their unbelief and undo the damage? 

I know of a fine Christian man and lady who sent her children to and SDA school because it offered a good education. Their son was converted. They straightened him out. Then the school gave them Bible studies and they learned the truth. They went to their graves believing that their son was lost because of their unbelief (before they knew better).

Oh that folks could be spared that agony.

_________________________
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).

[LifeHiscost]

I have learned the second most important lesson to be learned before Jesus returns is how to love. The first lesson most important is with Whom one should be taught. No one will be withheld from the kingdom for ignorance, but for turning deliberately away from what they know is right and refusing to repent.

…22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ 24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.… Matthew 7

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[hch]

8 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

...The above quote is purely anecdotal and has nothing in it that we could verify from scripture re your Obama thing. Its just that simple...

So from your study of Scripture, what do you find wrong with identifying Obama from Daniel 7:17, 11-12; and Revelation 13?

[hch]

5 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

I have learned the second most important lesson to be learned before Jesus returns is how to love. The first lesson most important is with Whom one should be taught. No one will be withheld from the kingdom for ignorance, but for turning deliberately away from what they know is right and refusing to repent.

…22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ 24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.… Matthew 7

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

Lest we forget: and paint a picture with too broad of strokes.

"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).

The wages of sin is not life in the kingdom.

And God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. 

[LifeHiscost]

4 hours ago, hch said:

Lest we forget: and paint a picture with too broad of strokes.

"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).

The wages of sin is not life in the kingdom.

And God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. 

 

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me

 

Thank you for drawing my attention to that Scripture text. I guess my question would be is it primarily the lack of knowledge that would prevent a person from entrance to the heavenly abodes, or is it the deliberate turning away from that which one believes might open their eye to personal responsibility? What comes to my mind from the Word is this;

Zechariah 7:11

“But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear.

Acts 7:57

Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

Rev 7:9-14 tells us that we do not have to believe tall tales about Popes and Presidents in order to be in Gods kingdom and to stand before His throne. It is my suggestion to anyone reading this topic to study the "qualifications" therein and to watch for Jesus rather than Obama whose name is not once named in Scripture. The three angels message is alive in all such people as named therein

Is it your position that we should not understand Bible prophecy? Or attempt to understand it?

Then why did God give us prophecy if He did not want us to understand it?

Are you implying that Christians are closer to Christ if they are ignorant about the meaning of God's word?

[hch]

5 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

 

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me

 

Thank you for drawing my attention to that Scripture text. I guess my question would be is it primarily the lack of knowledge that would prevent a person from entrance to the heavenly abodes, or is it the deliberate turning away from that which one believes might open their eye to personal responsibility? What comes to my mind from the Word is this;

Zechariah 7:11

“But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear.

Acts 7:57

Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

Lack of knowledge because of a refusal to accept and apply what they already know?

It is the sin problem (self, I, nobody else)

Blessings

[Gregory Matthews]

HCH asked, below:

Esigesis

So from your study of Scripture, what do you find wrong with identifying Obama from Daniel 7:17, 11-12; and Revelation 13?

[JoeMo]

9 hours ago, hch said:

Is it your position that we should not understand Bible prophecy? Or attempt to understand it?

Then why did God give us prophecy if He did not want us to understand it?

Are you implying that Christians are closer to Christ if they are ignorant about the meaning of God's word?

Is it your position that we must understand Bible prophecy in the way you interpret it?

Why did God give us prophecy if he didn't want us to investigate it for ourselves, like the noble Bereans?  Or are you the only "noble Berean"?

Are you implying that Christians are closer to Christ only if they agree with your "out-of-the-box" interpretation of God's word?