Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

We have enough trouble with what little we already have without worrying about getting more. While I admire the writings of EGW, and even have two threads here where I quote them extensively; I would not say the quote you referred to was not  used correctly.  No ones going to be left out because they didn't know the latest tidbit about obama, or some pope. There is only one reason given in the Scriptures for a person being left out. Not knowing the latest new light hub bub does not cut it, and there is good reason for this. Jesus says that "no man" meaning NO PERSON knoweth the hour. While we can know that it is "near," that is all we can know. I appreciate the fact that you study, wanting to learn more, but extra study does not qualify us to get "more" understanding of Bible truth. Our only reason should be to know the answers that we might help others somehow with it Same reason Jesus prayed or did anything else.

Jesus once chastised some people for not being able to read the signs of his coming; while they could look at the skies and read what the weather is going to be like. Now it's the other way around. Everyone is trying to get in on the "new light" train, and get some special tidbit that will trump everyone elses tidbits. Its never worked before, and I have no reason to believe it will work now.

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 The condemnation that will fall upon the inhabitants of the earth in this day will be because of their rejection of light. Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have lived in error, but from the fact that we have neglected Heaven-sent opportunities for discovering truth. The means of becoming conversant with the truth are within the reach of all; but, like the indulgent, selfish king, we give more attention to the things that charm the ear, and please the eye, and gratify the palate, than to the things that enrich the mind, the divine treasures of truth. It is through the truth that we may answer the great question, "What must I do to be saved?"  {BEcho, September 17, 1894 par. 5} 

To classify all new light as an attempt to get into the limelight is to through the baby out with the wash water-- a very undesirable situation.

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Daniel, chapt 7-12, infact, all of the books of Daniel are Christ-centered, as is the three angel's message. For some reason, I am not seeing much about Him in any of this. Reminds me of the "no room at the inn" story. Not enough room for Jesus because we got too many popes, presidents, kings and queens in the mix.

This thought has been here before (by Alchemy is my memory serves me).

Leading by example is always a good way to initiate change. But many of the churches in our land that lift up the name of Jesus, give Him lip service rather than loving obedient service. 

We can fall out on that side of the salvation too.

[hch]

2 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Being 'approved' of/by God is not something we do and maybe that is where so many people find fault with your views. You seem to spend much time trying to 'prove' when there is no need. since Christ has already paid the price for our ticket to heaven.

If we truly were as we ought to be in the sight of God, would there not be a unity in getting and giving the right message at the right time to a dying world instead of uncertainty, hesitation, and hindering of the Present Truth?

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

But thats not what Im saying. Im saying most new light being presented as such doesnt even mention the name of Jesus and all this pope and obama stuff falls into that category

It would be helpful if to know what you are saying.

Understanding the popes is to understand what is revealed in prophecy: Revelation 12, 13, 14, 18, 17, 16 and Daniel 4, 7, and 11.

Understanding Obama is to understand what is revealed in prophecy: Revelation 13, 14, 18 and Daniel 2, 4, 7, 8, 9 and 11.

Without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is it not possible to correctly understand the Present Truth of Bible prophecy.

Thus we must pray for the testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy lest that which is prophesied comes upon us while we are unaware (sleeping).

How can we give the right message "President Obama is the American President that is prophesied to implement the Mark of the Beast, to make an image to the beast, and to lead the fight against God's covenant keeping people" at the right time; if we do not understand Present Truth? By faith in the sure word of God, we can know this: BUT only if we are students of the word and not just students of what the pioneers and others have written about the Bible. 

As the hour draws nearer, I fear that those who wait until these things are upon us will be unprepared for the crisis. 

So much better to examine the facts and pray for the infilling of the Holy Spirit now then when the trouble that we have been warned of starts. Then it will be so much more difficult to do the work that we could have done err this.

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

The urgency has always been there and it doesnt change just because "knowledge" increases. Gods plans know not haste nor delay

I wonder if anyone said that to Noah?

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, hch said:

Wanderer,

Since so many who should be watchmen in the Lord's cause have had no time to study the sure word or prophecy, just rehashing what others have studied in the past, that which should be sure and firmly grounded is unsure and vague.

hch,

Are you saying that just because some of us don't understand or accept your point of view that we are unstudied?  If so, I find that to be a very arrogant assumption.   I have studied Daniel and Revelation for over 30 years.  I may not know everything; but just because some of us disagree with you doesn't mean we are wrong or ignorant. 

[Martn]

The EVER lasting gospel --good news that will never come to an end!

This is what the four angels' message is really about.

There's something in it --the MAIN point, throughout-- which is extremely good news.

All that other talk, about beasts and marks, is a warning only to those who dare attack the good news and the ones who have it.

[hch]

Here's an update for those who have been following my ongoing commentary about President Obama stirring up trouble with Russia and Iran leading up to the election.

Kerry gave the ultimatum in May

It kicked in August first (8/1/16) the day the Syrian rebels downed their first Russian helicopter

Report:   Sun Sep 18, 2016 ---  "U.S.-led coalition air strikes reportedly killed dozens of Syrian soldiers on Saturday, endangering a U.S.-Russian brokered ceasefire and prompting an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting as tensions between Moscow and Washington escalated."

 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11N062

The US has been accusing Russia of bombing Syrian rebels while claiming to target ISIS for months, now the shoe is on the other foot. Did Obama take a page out of Putin's play book?

But the saints are is a deep sleep not knowing that Armageddon is at the door. And it is getting closer.

I'll post a video about what the conspiracy world is saying about Obama remaining in office when he is supposed to be gone. But they cite secular sources and dreams. Laying the ground work for a great deception. It looks like they are saying the same thing that I am saying = the outcome appears to be the same... BUT the difference is that my views are Bible based and theirs are without the sure word of prophecy. It is like down playing the Bible while uplifting peoples' opinion to be more "reliable" than the Bible that God's people are misreading, misinterpreting and misapplying.

Funny how I give the Bible texts (from that still small voice) to explain how prophecy is being fulfilled and nobody seems to care. But when folk dream dreams and popular talk show hosts speculate about what might happen, lots of folks show more interest in those spectacular pronouncements. 

End results = world is informed and God is not in the warning. Jesus left out of the warning.

 

 

[hch]

This video was uploaded yesterday if I read the footer right

 

 

 

[hch]

As I said that I would post the video that I came across yesterday showing how conspiracy theorists view Obama's staying in office,

I posted it. That was not an endorsement, it was sharing information that seems far fetched.

From my study of Scriptures, Iran (Chittim) will attack America's fleet in the Gulf and America will go to war with Iran and trouble from the north is Russia.

Why would Iran take on America either soon before the election or shortly after it but before a new President is sworn in?

Remember how Reagan talked tough while running for President and at the very time that he was being sworn in, the Iranians released all of the hostages that they had held captive. 

Donald Trump is talking tough on Iran: 

Pensacola, Florida (CNN)Donald Trump vowed Friday that if Iran inappropriately approached US ships, they would be "shot out of the water."

"And by the way, with Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats and they make gestures that our people -- that they shouldn't be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water," he said at a rally here.

Taking such action would have tremendous ramifications and would likely be considered an act of war. The comments, even given Trump's penchant for tough language, are unusual for a presidential candidate.

Trump appeared to be referring to a series of close encounters between the US and Iran in international waters in the Persian Gulf... http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/donald-trump-iran/

If Iran is keeping up with events in the US and they remember the Reagan history, JUST maybe they would rather go to war with Obama and negotiate for peace with him than to have to bargain with Trump? 

Whatever the reasoning, God's word states the ships of Chittim will attack America's fleet and Obama will then implement a war against the Covenants (Constitution = Covenant... it gets suspended) and (Ten Commandments  = Covenant... the Sabbath will be under attack). 

If folks do not see and understand how God's word is being fulfilled in front of us, it won't be long before they will see all the particulars.

[hch]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

There has been trouble from/with Russia for many years now. That is certainly nothing new at all.

 

Satan is a masterful enemy. He is only too willing and able to confuse our understanding of Scripture.

Quote

The enemy has made his masterly efforts to unsettle the faith of our own people in the testimonies, and when these errors come in they claim to prove all the positions by the Bible, but they misinterpret the Scriptures. They make bold assertions, as did Elder Canright, and misapply the prophecies and the Scriptures to prove falsehood. And, after men have done their work in weakening the confidence of our churches in the testimonies, they have torn away the barrier, that unbelief in the truth shall become widespread, and there is no voice to be lifted up to stay the force of error. This is just as Satan designed it should be, and those who have been preparing the way for the people to pay no heed to the warnings and reproofs of the testimonies of the Spirit of God will see that a tide of errors of all kinds will spring into life. They will claim Scripture as their evidence, and deceptions of Satan in every form will prevail.--Letter 109, 1890, p. 5. (To W. C. White and J. E. White and wife, Dec. 6, 1890.)  {9MR 198.3}  

 

[LifeHiscost]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Understanding Jesus is the key to understanding Bible prophecy. one can do that without knowing a thing about any popes or Potentates, or anything in between.

The name of Jesus is mentioned 29 times in The Revelation of Jesus Christ alone, yet I so often hear people talking away about the Popes and what their latest who dunnit is rather than having the emphasis on our Savior.

The Bible doesnt say "behold the Pope" or "behold Obama." (John 1:29)

See my last post on "Right or Left".

[hch]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Doesnt really matter when it was uploaded. There is nothing in the Bible to give us any kind of "sure word of prophecy"  here. Dont get me wrong tho; I do appreciate reading your thoughts and comparing notes with you a bit on this. You sure do a lot of studying. I wish I had the time to do that! I do know that we both agree that we can trust God to lead us through what ever is coming. Personally, i do not think that most of 'the news" we hear these days is really the news. How I long for a newspaper that has nothing but good news in it.

To agree that God is able does not give much consolation.

Quote

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge... Hosea 4:6

 

[hch]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Understanding Jesus is the key to understanding Bible prophecy. one can do that without knowing a thing about any popes or Potentates, or anything in between.

The name of Jesus is mentioned 29 times in The Revelation of Jesus Christ alone, yet I so often hear people talking away about the Popes and what their latest who dunnit is rather than having the emphasis on our Savior.

The Bible doesnt say "behold the Pope" or "behold Obama." (John 1:29)

The Bible does not say behold Nebuchadnezzar, but he has his p;ace in the three angels' messages and prophecy that get us started on the road to understanding Bible prophecy. Likewise the place of endtime popes and presidents give us insights into the events that are before us at the end of the journey.

To understand the beginning of the journey and not to understand the ending is not really very helpful to those of us that are nearing the end of the journey.

Quote

We are living in the last days. The end of all things is at hand. The signs foretold by Christ are fast fulfilling. There are stormy times before us, but let us not utter one word of unbelief or discouragement. He who understands the necessities of the situation arranges that advantages should be brought to the workers in various places, to enable them more effectively to arouse the attention of the people. He knows the needs and the necessities of the feeblest of His flock, and He sends His own message into the highways and the byways. He loves us with an everlasting love. Let us remember that we bear a message of healing to a world filled with sin-sick souls. May the Lord increase our faith and help us to see that He desires us all to become acquainted with His ministry of healing and with the mercy seat. He desires the light of His grace to shine forth from many places.  {CH 392.1}

 

[hch]

14 minutes ago, LifeHiscost said:

See my last post on "Right or Left".

Is it in this thread? what page?

[LifeHiscost]

7 minutes ago, hch said:

Is it in this thread? what page?

 

Real Issues in Adventism today

•  The Ordination of Women
•  Homosexuality and Gender issues

Real issues, no abuse.This is NOT a place to confront the 28 fundamental beliefs.

26,127

posts

• 
• Right or Left?
• By LifeHiscost
• 26 minutes ago

…19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! 21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen.… Revelation 22

…9Then the angel told me to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” 10So I fell at his feet to worship him. But he told me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who rely on the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” ....Revelation 19

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

Wow! I didn't see that coming!

…11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.… Ephesians 3

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[hch]

On 9/16/2016 at 4:30 PM, JoeMo said:

hch,

Are you saying that just because some of us don't understand or accept your point of view that we are unstudied?  If so, I find that to be a very arrogant assumption.   I have studied Daniel and Revelation for over 30 years.  I may not know everything; but just because some of us disagree with you doesn't mean we are wrong or ignorant. 

JoeMo,

The Lord sent me to this post. I try to read them as they are posted, but I missed it. Then when I was clearing out my emails, I deleted a bunch but not this one. And then I realized that I had missed reading it.

The Lord brings folks to the TRUTH in many different ways. The issue is not one of agreeing with me or not agreeing with me. The issue is do I speak the truth? If I speak truth then the issue is agreeing with the truth. If I speak the truth and it is different then what you believe I am not arrogant because I know what I am talking about. If it is truth that I speak and I modify it to make it sound more pleasant, then it does not continue to be truth.

Do I now have the truth as far as it is available from God at this time in earth's history or not?

then the question becomes "how readest thou?"

I have been speaking to a group of folks every Sabbath for months and the leader of the group always is so kind and hospitable. But he is a retired colporter and has a friend (also a colporter) who takes him aside and privately challenges everything I say. My friend was put into the valley of uncertainty.

The week before last, he finally got up in front of the group and pleaded for those who believed my message to tell him how it was that they believed, but no one understood his request. The following week, I spoke and explained my understanding of his predicament. He was surprised that I knew about the man who was trying to keep him from hearing this message. Then I presented a talk on Revelation 13.

His reply, Now I understand it. I've heard you for weeks, but not until now do I understand what you are saying.

Prayer and Bible study are essential to understand the word of God. 

I speak the truth as I understand it and when I learn more, I will adjust my understanding to go with the increased light.

The problems that some folks have with my studies is that it seems to them

1) like time setting,

2) it is too specific,

3) they are not hearing it from others in the pulpit,

4) it is not popular.

But all roads do not lead to God. Yes God can and does find folks on any road and He redirects them to Him. But the promise that is born by two witnesses is:

Deuteronomy 4:29  "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."
Jeremiah 29:13  "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart."

But of course the promise is conditional--- When God reveals something to us we have to do it. Like change our lifestyle to meet that which He has revealed to us. If we do act upon what He is showing us, He stops showing us more until we respond to what He has shown us already.

That is God's mercy and God's love. 

 

[LifeHiscost]

1 hour ago, hch said:

JoeMo,

Deuteronomy 4:29  "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."
Jeremiah 29:13  "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart."

But of course the promise is conditional--- When God reveals something to us we have to do it. Like change our lifestyle to meet that which He has revealed to us. If we do (don't?) act upon what He is showing us, He stops showing us more until we respond to what He has shown us already.

That is God's mercy and God's love. 

 

Is the underlined what you meant to type? Just asking. Keep looking up.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, hch said:

From my study of Scriptures, Iran (Chittim) will attack America's fleet in the Gulf

Small problem - the "Chittim" referred to in scripture is the modern Island of Cyprus - not Iran..  Is scripture, Iran is referred to as Persia.  Chittim was the original home to Phoenicians; not Persians.

[hch]

5 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

Is the underlined what you meant to type? Just asking. Keep looking up.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

Thanks for correcting my typo

JoeMo,

Deuteronomy 4:29  "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."
Jeremiah 29:13  "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart."

But of course the promise is conditional--- When God reveals something to us we have to do it. Like change our lifestyle to meet that which He has revealed to us. If we don't act upon what He is showing us, He stops showing us more until we respond to what He has shown us already.

That is God's mercy and God's love. 

[hch]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Small problem - the "Chittim" referred to in scripture is the modern Island of Cyprus - not Iran..  Is scripture, Iran is referred to as Persia.  Chittim was the original home to Phoenicians; not Persians.

JoeMo,

Great point, 

That is exactly what I used to think Until I studied it more.

Cyprus is the island in the Mediterranean that has been called Chittim in Scriptures.

It has traditionally been inhabited by the Greeks (Javan) 

When Babylon fell, The next world empire was Medo-Persia [Media and Persia] (Persia is modern Iran)

The kingdom of Medo-Persia (Persian Empire was toppled by Greece). 

Thus the Javan people extended their culture beyond the limits of the Mediterranean Sea to Iran

And the name Chittim?

It is like the British moving from England in the old world to New England in the new world.

In fact lots of places in America have old world names, Portsmouth, Plymouth, London, etc

and you will that to be true in other countries: same name from old country in the new country.

I am not aware of a "place" named Chittim in Iran, but the people associated with Chittim conquered Iran.

And there are islands off Iran that are naval and military bases that have a plan in place to attack

American Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf should a war break out.

I have a chart in my new book that follows the Kings of the North and South to their current namesakes:

Wm Miller followed the King of the North from Turkey to Britain (I follow it from Britain to Obama)

Wm Miller followed the King of the South from Egypt to an area near France (I follow it from France to Iran)

Thanks for asking

 

[hch]

2 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

The Popes and/or the presidents cannot be used for any forms, subtle or no so subtle of time-setting. When Jesus said that "no man knows the hour,"  He meant it The Bible places by far, the major emphasis on Jesus, and Him crucified in all Bible prophecy, and those of us who do not do the same will be sounding the wrong trumpet. Your time theories are completely unproven. Many have done what you are doing with various political figures, and there has been a 100% failure rate in those kinds of "prophecies."   End time prophecies are actually not about who is in power or when; they are about Jesus.

No man knows the hour of Christ's return. I do not know it! 
 

Quote

 

“Though no man knoweth the day nor the hour of His coming, we are instructed and required to know when it is near. We are further taught that to disregard His warning, and refuse or neglect to know when His Advent is near, will be as fatal for us, as it was for those who lived in the days of Noah not to know when the flood was coming.” GC88 370.2

 

 

Quote

 

“The perils of the last days are upon us, and in our work we are to warn the people of the danger they are in. Let not the solemn scenes which prophecy has revealed be left untouched. If our people were half awake, if they realized the nearness of the events portrayed in the Revelation, a reformation would be wrought in our churches, and many more would believe the message. We have no time to lose; God calls upon us to watch for souls as they that must give an account. Advance new principles, and crowd in the clear-cut truth. It will be as a sword cutting both ways. But be not too ready to take a controversial attitude. There will be times when we must stand still and see the salvation of God. Let Daniel speak, let the Revelation speak, and tell what is truth. But whatever phase of the subject is presented, uplift Jesus as the center of all hope, ‘the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright and morning Star.’ Revelation 22:16.” 6T 61.4

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

I am not aware of a "place" named Chittim in Iran, but the people associated with Chittim conquered Iran.

And there are islands off Iran that are naval and military bases that have a plan in place to attack

American Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf should a war break out.

There is not a place in Iran called Chittim, but there is a place in SE Cyprus named Chittim.   Cyprus is in the Mediterranean Sea; Iran has no coastline on the Mediterranean.  Iran does have coastline on the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf; and has naval/military bases in those islands.  I Googled Cyprus-Iran, and could find no place in ancient history where Persians ever occupied Cyprus.

[hch]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

There is not a place in Iran called Chittim, but there is a place in SE Cyprus named Chittim.   Cyprus is in the Mediterranean Sea; Iran has no coastline on the Mediterranean.  Iran does have coastline on the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf; and has naval/military bases in those islands.  I Googled Cyprus-Iran, and could find no place in ancient history where Persians ever occupied Cyprus.

JoeMo,

after reading your reply, I reread my post.

We don't appear to be talking about the same thihg