Did God Implement the Plan of Redemption the Day Adam Sinned?

[Samie]

19 minutes ago, Robert said:

Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,  sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee

[Samie]

23 minutes ago, Robert said:

I have the Bible  on my side....you have speculation on yours....

Wrong.

I believe Jesus is the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world. You don't.

[Samie]

Robert's theology teaches that God did not save Adam the day he sinned.

The right side of Robert's tongue says God is agape while the other side of his tongue insinuates God simply watched Adam drown. Two-forked tongue?

[Samie]

If God did not save Adam the day he sinned, then why is Jesus the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world?

[Robert]

3 hours ago, Samie said:

KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee

"I sanctified thee" means that Jeremiah was set apart.  It does not mean he was born sinless.  Come on....

[Robert]

3 hours ago, Samie said:

Two-forked tongue?

Play nice....

[Samie]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

"I sanctified thee" means that Jeremiah was set apart.  It does not mean he was born sinless.  Come on....

KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Come  on...

 

[Samie]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

Play nice....

Sorry. I should have instead written:

The RIGHT side of Robert's tongue says God is agape while the WRONG side of his tongue insinuates God simply watched Adam drown.

[Robert]

3 hours ago, Samie said:

KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Come  on...

 

Notice that it is Christ who has perfected the believer.  Why would you need to perfect something that is already sanctified (made holy)?  No, "sanctified" in these cases means "set apart".

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,  before you were born I set you apart;    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”  Jeremiah 1:5 NIV

Anyway, you took Jeremiah 1:5 out of context and completely ignored Ps 51:5.  

Let me quote it again for you in case that was an oversight on your part:

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Not only was David sinful at birth, but the moment David was formed he was sinful.  How can that be?  Because the life he received from his mother originated with Adam and Adam's life was fallen and polluted with iniquity.  This is our position in Adam.  

 

[Samie]

David said he was conceived in sin.
KJV Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God told Jeremiah He sanctified him before he was born:
KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee.

Scriptures say those sanctified were made perfect: :
KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Why do you find it hard to believe what Scriptures say, Robert?

 

[Samie]

David said he was conceived in sin. God told Jeremiah He sanctified him before he was born. Apply to David what God told Jeremiah and you will have David conceived in sin but born sanctified. And Scriptures say those sanctified were made perfect forever.

But Robert protests because his theology doesn't sit well with what Scriptures say.

[Samie]

And Robert still has no response relative to what I perceive as his paradoxical stance:

5 hours ago, Samie said:

The RIGHT side of Robert's tongue says God is agape while the WRONG side of his tongue insinuates God simply watched Adam drown.

 

[Samie]

Also Robert obdurately keeps mum on why Jesus is the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world.

[Robert]

Your theology is nothing short of heresy, Samie.  It's a subtle, if not outright, form of legalism. It has salvation by one's goodness stamped all over it.  It's "another gospel"; so I would be very careful in perpetuating this unsound doctrine. 

[Robert]

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned - 

13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 

[Samie]

Robert, your theology is guilty of a perfect number (7 counts) of errors:

1. It's your theology that can't explain why Jesus is the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world.

2. It's your theology that teaches God did not save Adam the same day he sinned.

3. It's your theology that depicts God as a Father who did NOTHING to save his drowning child.

4. It's your theology that teaches God sent down heaven's Ambulance down to earth 4000 years AFTER the emergency occurred.

5. It's your theology that teaches God made available the Life Jacket 4000 years AFTER people needing it have drowned.

6. It's your theology that teaches UNLESS the spiritually dead puts in his share of the deal - believe - into the basket, he can't be saved.

7. It's your theology that teaches the spiritually dead can believe, in direct opposition to Christ Who said apart from Him man can do NOTHING.

[Samie]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Your theology is nothing short of heresy, Samie.  It's a subtle, if not outright, form of legalism. It has salvation by one's goodness stamped all over it.

Wrong.

Here are two questions you will NOT directly answer:

1.  Is God's reinstating Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status legalism?

2.  Did God reinstate Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status based on Adam's goodness?

 

[Samie]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Your theology is nothing short of heresy, Samie.  It's a subtle, if not outright, form of legalism. It has salvation by one's goodness stamped all over it.

Wrong.

Here are two questions you will NOT directly answer:

1.  Is God's reinstating Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status legalism?

2.  Did God reinstate Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status based on Adam's goodness?

 

[Robert]

2 hours ago, Samie said:

Wrong.

Here are two questions you will NOT directly answer:

1.  Is God's reinstating Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status legalism?

2.  Did God reinstate Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status based on Adam's goodness?

 

1] No, because God did not do as you state.  

Yes, because that would mean that  Adam was sinless when the Bible (especially Paul) states differently.  After all Paul said "there is none righteous".

2] God didn't do as you state.

[Robert]

4 hours ago, Robert said:

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned - 

Verse 12: Adam's sin brought sin and sin brings mortality.  That means that sin and death are linked as righteousness and immortality are linked.

 If an infant in its mother's womb has been restored to Adam's unfallen life and nature that would mean that the infant was immortal and beyond death, but, as we know, women have miscarriages.  This alone disproves your unbiblical idea that infants have been restored to Adam's unfallen state. 

[Samie]

3 hours ago, Samie said:

1.  Is God's reinstating Adam to his pre-fall spiritual status legalism?

1 hour ago, Robert said:

1] No, because God did not do as you state.  

So how is God agape if He just watched Adam drown?

[Robert]

4 minutes ago, Samie said:

So how is God agape if He just watched Adam drown?

How could a God of love allow six million Jews to be slaughtered?

How can a God of love allow infants, in their mothers' wombs, to be murdered for the sake of convenience?  

I too can ask questions....

[Robert]

Satan's rebellion was to be a lesson to the universe through all coming ages—a perpetual testimony to the nature of sin and its terrible results. The working out of Satan's rule, its effects upon both men and angels, would show what must be the fruit of setting aside the divine authority. It would testify that with the existence of God's government is bound up the well-being of all the creatures He has made. Thus the history of this terrible experiment of rebellion was to be a perpetual safeguard to all holy beings, to prevent them from being deceived as to the nature of transgression, to save them from committing sin, and suffering its penalty.  [THE FAITH I LIVE BY, PAGE 70]

[Samie]

1 minute ago, Robert said:

How could a God of love allow six million Jews to be slaughtered?

How can a God of love allow infants, in their mothers' wombs, to be murdered for the sake of convenience?  

I too can ask questions....

So, you are now in doubt whether God is agape? If No, then how is He agape if He just watched Adam drown?

[Robert]

2 minutes ago, Samie said:

.... how is He agape if He just watched Adam drown?

Because God cannot force....It's outside His nature.  Agape doesn't force.  What part of this can't you understand?

Adam was warned....Adam failed to take the warning seriously (or something like this).  The result was sin and death.