Did God Implement the Plan of Redemption the Day Adam Sinned?

[Kevin H]

Ok, I'll continue: The everlasting gospel comes from the fact that God is love. The infinite God reached out to finite beings through the 3 revelations of God as the great power, God as personal friend, God working with the subconscious.

The created beings loved God, but they were in many ways children, and they had an immature love. God is dealing with eternity and there is no reason while the childhood of the universe could have lasted billions of years.  But the universe needed to mature in it's love for God. The universe grew to the point where they were to make some decisions, the Holy Spirit lead in their coming to this point. Since creatures were free to love, that meant that they were free not to love and of all the beings that God made the odds of someone choosing not to love was great indeed.  Even without foreknowledge just the awareness of the chance of sin would have the plan of redemption ready to go.

It was Lucifer who was the first to ask these questions. Had he taken the time to think about and looked for answers to his questions, it would have been possible for him to have come to a deeper understanding of God, and the ugliness of evil and choose against evil and helped others to understand as well and the odds of someone choosing not to sin, the chance of someone choosing not to love would have decreased and God could have dealt with the issue of sin without it rising.

The mystery of iniquity is why did Lucifer not look for answers to his questions? Instead of wanting to find answers, Lucifer just began to pat himself on the back and was proud that he was so clever as to come up with these questions. He spread them through the universe and developed these questions into 3 deceptions about God, each attacking a member of the trinity.

The first asked if God was indeed really God, the great infinite creator, or is this power just a higher evolved life form that had a natural start just like the rest of us. If so God has no right to place a law over us, and the law of self-sacrificing love was just to prevent the rest of us from evolving to this higher life form, where we are so busy caring about each other that we don't have time to look out for numeral Uno.  Lucifer accuses God of not following his laws and that it is not natural for created beings to keep the law of self-sacrificing love.

Lucifer then went on to say that if God is God, there is a problem. God claims to be both just and merciful and that it is impossible to be both. That for God to be just sinners need to die. For God to be merciful sinners need to be forgiven.  How can God do both?

Everything revolved around these 3 issues. This earth was made to be a place for Lucifer and other created beings to do experiments in evolution, to see if life could just start naturally. We don't know the details of this time. The Bible only describes it in the words translated "Without form and void" which is a much richer phrase full of ideas than we generally think are in that short term. And the waters were symbols of chaos. The created beings tried to bring about creation here, and where they only had evidence. God wanted people who follow him based on faith. Over this time and looking at what the created beings were learning with their experiments of earth the created beings formed into two groups. Lucifer and those who sided with his rebellion, and those who still had questions but decided not to join the rebellion. Once the two sides were formed based on faith then God started giving some proof by hovering over the chaotic mess that developed here and said "Let there be light" and created order and life and had those special literal seven days.

Now it was one thing when Lucifer and the demons were experimenting and playing along with evil, even when they choose the wrong side and crossed the line of being sinners. God could have still worked on them. But they kept making even worst choices. Mrs. White tells us of one time Lucifer came to repent but that God said it was too late. Now we find that Jesus tends to ask sharp testing questions, like with the woman wanting her daughter healed and Jesus said he could not give food to dogs. She replied that the dogs still get crumbs from the table. Basically God was telling Lucifer that he was right, that it's too late, that God could not be both just and merciful and was stuck with justice. Had Lucifer replied "No Lord, you know that was a lie I was saying and I was wrong." he would have been restored. But instead after crying he gets up with an attitude of "See, I knew I was right" and stomped off in wanting to get revenge on God. And with Adam and Eve.... Lucifer and those he had been talking to had lived for a long, long time, maybe even billions of years, had worshiped God all these years, and had done the experiments here on earth prior to that special week. Adam and Eve were newly created and just children. Teenagers get into mischief, but it is different when you actually harm children. Lucifer had to harden his heart even more to want to attack these innocent children. There is evidence that although the 2 sides had formed by the day that God said "Let there be light" that the created beings did not actually close their probation until the cross. But Satan had to fight his conscience to become so cruel as to attack these children and this young race. Thus they were taking steps in preparing themselves for the lake of fire. Humanity is in a different state due to us basically being little children that this old being was abusing. The plan of salvation that was in the process of being accepted by those who choose to stay faithful and was rapidly being rejected by these experienced beings who were choosing to harden their hearts was more available to these inexperienced beings who had made bad choices due to being victims of abuse. Thus the lake of fire was reserved for the abusers. But among those of the victims who end up hardening their hearts could end up with the same results as their abusers.

Again it is getting late. My eyes are heavy. A couple of things we have to look at is what (or who) is this lake  of fire. Just how does God destroy sinners. Why was Lucifer not killed when he crossed the line of sin, or when he closed his probation. What about his accusations about God. Is God's law just? Does God himself keep his law. would he  be able to keep it if he actually became a creature. And can God be both Just and merciful.

These are the issues in the 3 temptations of Satan, the issues in Gethsemane,  in Job, in the 3 beasts of Revelation and the 3 angel's messages.

But therefore I believe that when Adam sinned the plan of Salvation was already in progress.

[Samie]

Hi Kevin,

Since you were insinuating that God applied the plan of redemption to the angels, did God save Lucifer too that day he first fell into sin just like He saved Adam on the day of his fall?  Do you have a Biblical basis for your answer?

One of my Biblical basis for believing that God saved Adam the day he sinned is Christ's being the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world.

[Kevin H]

The same Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world could have saved Lucifer and any or all the demons if only they would let him.

[Samie]

On 02/06/2016 at 1:09 PM, Kevin H said:

The same Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world could have saved Lucifer and any or all the demons if only they would let him.

. . . if only they would let Him. Let's apply that to our case as God's children.

You see your own child drowning. As a good father, you will come to his rescue. Will you ask your child, "Will you allow me to rescue you? Because if not, then I better leave you alone." Of course, you won't even ask him. You will just rescue him, even at the peril of your own life. But he refuses to be rescued. He screams and kicks you, even shouting invectives at you. Will you leave him to drown?

Now compare your answer as a good father with what you think would be the answer of the BEST Father, our Father in heaven.

What I'm simply saying is we all are born In Christ because our loving Father implemented the plan of redemption He devised before the foundation of the world and saved Adam that day he sinned, reinstating him to his pre-fall spiritual status, an act that cost Him His Only Begotten Son, the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world. That saving act through His Son that He did to all of us by fashioning us all into parts of the body of Christ on the cross, was revealed through the life, death, resurrection and high priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary of our Lord. Hence, we all are heaven-bound UNLESS & UNTIL blotted out from the book of life for being overcome of evil instead of overcoming evil with good.

To be blotted out from the book of life is to be removed from the Body of Christ, expelled from membership in the Family of God.

[trinsabb]

On 6/3/2016 at 7:13 AM, Samie said:

we all are born In Christ because our loving Father implemented the plan of redemption

This idea is just not Biblical scripture is clear man was born in sin and shapen in iniquity Ps 51:5

[Samie]

1 hour ago, trinsabb said:

This idea is just not Biblical scripture is clear man was born in sin and shapen in iniquity Ps 51:5

Ohh.  Had you read the earlier posts of this thread like this one and this one, then you would not have posted what you have just posted but instead addressed those earlier posts that clearly addressed what you posted which I quoted above.

I'll wait for you to address those earlier posts.

[trinsabb]

On 5/21/2016 at 4:57 PM, Samie said:

KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee

1) what God is saying to Jeremiah is that before he was in the belly He sanctified (Heb.qadash, to be set apart, to be hallowed, consecrated) him. how? God said "I ordained thee" "I knew thee" so in God's mind He set him apart. further proof can be found in Num 7:1 Moses sanctified the tabernacle he didn't make it sinfree! additionally, Gen 2:3 God sanctified the seventh day which means is set it apart from the other days He didn't make the day sinfree His works were already perfect!

 

On 5/22/2016 at 3:16 AM, Samie said:

KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

2) Yes, the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. what this means is that sin cause God to suffer from the foundation of the world. so the death of Christ on the cross was a physical manifestation in time showing how sin makes God suffer, how sin makes man suffer, the horribleness of sin and the gift of life God provided, showing his love for man.  So, What Paul is saying in Heb 10:14 is that the death of Christ (His suffering and gift of life) the gift of life provided a subjective benefit to those who are sanctified!

 

[Samie]

1 hour ago, trinsabb said:

Moses sanctified the tabernacle he didn't make it sinfree!

Is the sin-free perfect or not, trinsabb?

 

1 hour ago, trinsabb said:

So, What Paul is saying in Heb 10:14 is that the death of Christ (His suffering and gift of life) the gift of life provided a subjective benefit to those who are sanctified!

The verse says "perfected forever" instead of "provided a subjective benefit". Are you saying to be perfected forever is to be provided a subjective benefit?