Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

[JoeMo]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

When God "chose" Isaac, was it not because of his faith

I don't think so; Isaac was chosen by God even before his birth.

 

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Was Jacob not "chosen" because of his faith?

No; he was chosen because of an act of deceit.  If he was chosen by anyone's faith, it was Rachel's faith.

 

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

God saw the future faith of these men, before they were born, and termed them "chosen", just as He saw Jeremiah, and John the Baptist.

I infer from this that you may think that Isaac, Jacob, and John the Baptist had no free will choice in this matter?  They could have said "no" to God; just like Israel - God's chosen people - have said "no" to God so many times in the past.  God doesn't choose people or nations based on how "good" they are.  He chooses them based on how good He is.  He will not relent on His Purpose or promises because that would give satan evidence in calling God a liar.

[JoeMo]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Joe,  

Would you grant that Satan may be using those who term themselves "Israel" ?  Are they not vulnerable to being used of Satan - because they are not especially protected by Christ?  He cannot protect those who knowingly mock and reject Him (and bar Christian materials from entering the country, and bar immigration of individuals unless they renounce Jesus as Messiah). 

We know from prophecy, that "Israel" will be central in the very last days.  Is it not possible that Satan could use "Israel" (in name only), to deceive the whole world, into worship of the Antichrist, through their misunderstanding of just who really are Israel?   

I personally believe the capitol of "Israel" (in name only) IS "the great harlot" of Revelation Cpt 17, just as the NEW Jerusalem is the "bride of Christ".  

This "great harlot" rides on "the Beast".  One of her names IS "Babylon the Great".  Other names are "Sodom and Egypt" (Rev. 11:8) ["where also our Lord was crucified"].    The "ten horns" completely destroy her and "burn her with fire".  The "two witnesses" testify in her streets for 1260 days, before they are killed. 

When the angel cries, "come out of her my people" - could He not be calling those who are Christ's, to come out from "Israel" (in name only) - to declare themselves Christ's ? 

I would grant that what you pose above is a reasonable scenario.  Arguments can be reasonably made for several other entities to be Babylon, the Beast, the Antichrist - whatever.  As I have said before - none of us will "know" how prophecy will unfold until it starts unfolding.  Until that time, all any of us can offer is conjecture based on feasible interpretations of prophecy.  Chances are we will all be at least partially wrong.

[8thdaypriest]

10 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I don't think so; Isaac was chosen by God even before his birth.

 

No; he was chosen because of an act of deceit.  If he was chosen by anyone's faith, it was Rachel's faith.

 

I infer from this that you may think that Isaac, Jacob, and John the Baptist had no free will choice in this matter?  They could have said "no" to God; just like Israel - God's chosen people - have said "no" to God so many times in the past.  God doesn't choose people or nations based on how "good" they are.  He chooses them based on how good He is.  He will not relent on His Purpose or promises because that would give satan evidence in calling God a liar.

I think we discussed - in another thread, that God's foreknowledge of the future choices that a person will make, does not interfere with the FREE WILL of the individual later making the choice.   

[JoeMo]

On 6/12/2017 at 1:12 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I think we discussed - in another thread, that God's foreknowledge of the future choices that a person will make, does not interfere with the FREE WILL of the individual later making the choice.   

I remember - yes.

I was reading the Cyrus prophecy in Isaiah 44 and 45.  This prophecy was made about 700 years before Cyrus attacked Babylon.  I guess Cyrus could have said "no" to God at any time - especially since he was likely a non-believer until he went to Babylon and met Daniel.  So God "knew" the choices Cyrus would make so well that he predicted Cyrus' victory over 700 years in advance.  So yes; God could have known Isaac and Jacob would "work out" well before the fact.  He also probably knew that Saul would eventually fail miserably as a king; still He directed Samuel to anoint Saul (See 1 Samuel 9).  He also probably knew that Hitler would cause the Holocaust, but He allowed Hitler's rise to power anyways.  Sometimes God does stuff that I don't understand very well; but my experience and faith tell me that that He is always right.