Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary # 24

[Gerr]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 0:06 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

today to live.

3) Judgment:  It is not humanity that is the central focus of the judgment.  It is God.  God is on trial before the created beings of the universe.  Back in the beginning of time, there was a rebellion in heaven.  A being we now call Satan rebelled, charged God with misconduct and proposed that people given freedom of choice would chose to reject God and follow his.  This Earth has been the working out of that rebellion.  At the cross, it convinced the unfallen universe that Satan was a false leader and God was right.  Now in this time of  judgment, God is showing the universe that those who will be translated into eternity to live forever with God have had the propensity to sin  removed  from them and they are safe to save.

 

 

 

On the basis of two or three witnesses, where in the Bible does it say that God is on trial and is being judged? 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel said in the quote below:

 

She  got it right.

There is a WAR going on, for human beings.  Satan claiming some for himself.  Christ claiming others for Himself and His kingdom.  Satan already knows his time is short.  His goal in the time remaining, is to keep from Christ as many human beings as he can - just because this wounds Christ and The Father.   The whole persecution of the Beast is all about keeping souls from Christ.  There IS no other purpose. 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Gerry said in the quote below:

On the surface his quote sounds good.  But, it is lacking in substance.  There is much, in fact some would say that the majority of what is published in official denominational publications is only the view of the author and is not an official teaching of the SDA Church.

As an example:  In the so-called 27/27, it is only the Individual paragraphs just preceding each chapter, and printed in Bold type that constitute the official teachings of the SDA church.  Every thing in the individual chapters reflect only the views of some, not all, SDAs and those chapters are not official teachings of the SDA church at the time the book was printed.

There is a section on the SDA website that contains statements on various subjects issued by GC Officers and committees.  Again, these are only the views of individual SDAs and not official teachings to the SDA denomination.

Gerry's statement below, is subject to major misunderstanding by people reading it.

Just another word of caution.  If you want to know what the SDA Church

officially teaches, then look at official publications of the church.

[JoeMo]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:11 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

IF Jesus was a substitute for sinners, then His death really would have taken away all "the sin of the world", and God would "save" the entire world. 

I agree with Jackson.  Just like a dollar bill used to be a substitute for an equivalent amount of gold or silver, so Christ's death is a substitute for our death - as long as we accept it.  We don't have to (or didn't USED to have to) accept a piece of paper as a substitute for gold or silver.  We don't have to accept Christ's suffering and death as a substitute for our own, either - we can offer our own death as payment for our sins.  The Bible tells me that usually doesn't work out very well.  Isn't "substitution "taking someone's place"?  That's how I view Jesus - He took my place at the judgement seat of God and became sin - MY sin.  He paid the penalty I owe - He took my place in suffering what I deserve in order that I may have the glory only He deserves.

[8thdaypriest]

16 hours ago, jackson said:

Rachel, I stated that "A law without punishment for disobedience would be no law at all."

 and your answer above was "So you believe that God directly PUNISHED Jesus?"

Yes, Is not Isaiah rather clear on this point?   Isa 53:10   Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin 

But you are asking a question rather than replying to my statement.  i ask you again, ,,"Is it not true that a law without a punishment for violation is no law at all?"   

God does not have to directly punish a person who breaks His LAW. 

Israel - for instance - broke God's LAW by their worship of "foreign gods".  When the Babylonians came and destroyed the Temple, the LORD said that HE was punishing Israel.  He did not punish them directly.  He removed His protection, which allowed the Babylonians to perform the punishment. 

God can "punish" by removing His protection. 

God the Father removed His protection from Christ, and that allowed Satan/evil men to torture and kill Him. 

You Jackson, want to make this about God directly tormenting the lost.  That's not want I believe the "lake of fire" IS. 

[8thdaypriest]

Joe,

I am just asking questions at this point.  I'm not convinced one way or the other.  My brain just keeps saying, "I don't think we understand this right.  Something doesn't fit."

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (NKJ)

IF the "sin of the (whole) world" is taken away - is gone, that leaves every human being FREE of SIN.  Right?

Then what reason can there be to exclude any human being from the eternal kingdom of Messiah, under God the Father? 

Aren't unforgiven sins the REASON why most will be excluded? 

And is not refusing to believe - a sin?  (Especially when presented with the evidence/and feeling the conviction of the Spirit.)  If I remember right "unbelief" was THE REASON why "branches were broken off" and THE REASON why all but 3 men who left Egypt for the promised land, died in the wilderness.

But if ALL the sins of ALL the people who have every lived,  are "taken away" by "the Lamb", then there IS no sin left to form a basis for condemnation.  

I'm looking for another interpretation of this verse, which allows for most human beings to be judged unworthy of eternal life. 

Maybe Jesus takes sin from this planet ("the world").  This planet will end up free from sin/evil and sinners.   Jesus does that, through His death - by which He regains DOMINION of this planet, and can then remove Satan.  That could be one interpretation.  Maybe this verse is not speaking about the aggregate of individual sinners.  Rather it is speaking about this lost "world".   Once Satan/evil is gone from this planet - it will be free of sin.  Sin will take "taken away" from this "world". 

Maybe Jesus "takes away the sin of" all the human beings who are LEFT on this planet, AFTER Satan/confirmed rebels are GONE.  The "new covenant" does say "I will wash you", and the "new covenant" is made with Israel AFTER she is gathered from "the nations" and returned to the land. 

[8thdaypriest]

34 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

God does not have to directly punish a person who breaks His LAW. 

Israel - for instance - broke God's LAW by their worship of "foreign gods".  When the Babylonians came and destroyed the Temple, the LORD said that HE was punishing Israel.  He did not punish them directly.  He removed His protection, which allowed the Babylonians to perform the punishment. 

God can "punish" by removing His protection. 

God the Father removed His protection from Christ, and that allowed Satan/evil men to torture and kill Him. 

You Jackson, want to make this about God directly tormenting the lost.  That's not what I believe the "lake of fire" IS. 

I do believe God's LAW punishes those who work against it. 

It's not so much whether God punishes, but HOW He punishes.  His LAW carries within it, both blessings and punishments. 

Isaiah 3:1 "For behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, Takes away from Jerusalem and from Judah The stock and the store, The whole supply of bread and the whole supply of water;" (NKJ)

The whole supply of bread and water did NOT suddenly miraculously disappear from Jerusalem.  It was used up, by the citizens of Jerusalem, surrounded by the Assyrians, or Babylonians, or Romans. 

That WAS punishment.  I could give a dozen examples of what happened when God withdrew His protection and blessing.  Each time - God took responsibility for what happened to persons or to Jerusalem.  He always said "I made it happen" or words to that effect. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 5/21/2017 at 11:47 AM, Gerry Cabalo said:

3) Judgment:  It is not humanity that is the central focus of the judgment.  It is God.  God is on trial before the created beings of the universe.  Back in the beginning of time, there was a rebellion in heaven.  A being we now call Satan rebelled, charged God with misconduct and proposed that people given freedom of choice would chose to reject God and follow his.  This Earth has been the working out of that rebellion.  At the cross, it convinced the unfallen universe that Satan was a false leader and God was right.  Now in this time of  judgment, God is showing the universe that those who will be translated into eternity to live forever with God have had the propensity to sin  removed  from them and they are safe to save.

On 5/21/2017 at 11:47 AM, Gerry Cabalo said:

 

I think this was Gregory Matthews.  I would give it five LIKES if I could.

[8thdaypriest]

How many times have we tried to get non-SDA's to "see" a verse of Scripture in a different way?  Can't we try the same thing - on ourselves?

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, jackson said:

I do not know what the Second death feels like, and neither do you.. The Bible does not say. But what it does say,is that Christ was  the sin bearer and the punishment for sin is the Second Death; and that he tasted it for us.

I don't know that Jesus experienced the second death.  There are parts of scripture that seem to indicate that Jesus descended into hell, hades or the abyss (whatever you want to call it) to announce to the demons there that they had lost the battle:

 This is why it says:

“When he ascended on high,
    he took many captives
    and gave gifts to his people.”

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?  He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) (Eph. 4:9-10)

The original Nicean Creed states that "He descended into hell; and on the third day He arose from the dead."

I wish I could find the other Bible verses that indicate that Jesus did this.

[JoeMo]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't know that Jesus experienced the second death.  There are parts of scripture that seem to indicate that Jesus descended into hell, hades or the abyss (whatever you want to call it) to announce to the demons there that they had lost the battle:

 

I found the verse I was looking for:

^" For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. ¹⁹ After being made alive,^[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— ²⁰ to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."(1 Peter 3:18-20)

(d)  1 Peter 3:19 Or but made alive in the spirit, ¹⁹ in which also

I think that (taking the footnote into account), it is highly unlikely that Jesus suffered the second death - not to mention that the second death is death from which there is never ever any possibility of return.

[8thdaypriest]

An internet server near us was flooded out the other day.  Our service was down.  This morning I just saw it was back.  Information flies sooooo quickly in this age.  No wonder the LORD can finish the work quickly.

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson,  I have heard folks who believe in ending conscious torment in Hell, say the same words you used,

13 hours ago, jackson said:

the Bible makes that so clear that no one should be in doubt.

So please - don't tell me I'm "blind" or don't see what is obvious or "clear", because I don't interpret a passage of Scripture in the exact same way that you do.  It comes across as arrogant. 

I have read every one of those verses you typed out for us.   And yes - I believe that Jesus Christ will judge each and every human being.  "All judgment is committed to the Son"  (John 5:22).

"judgment" - determination of guilt or innocence

"judgment" - the sentence determined by the "court" or legal authority  (the sentence may be waived or lessened by a circumstance, such as belonging to Christ)

"judgment" - execution of the sentence determined

Jesus will render judgment and also execute judgment.  He will also waive execution judgment if circumstances warrant such. 

Was Jesus a SUBSTITUTE for all mankind?  

I do not believe that He was.  I believe that He WON the right to judge all men.  I believe that He WON the right to save those who acknowledge Him as Lord, and serve Him as such.  I believe He won the right to DOMINION over this earth.  He did this by His perfect obedience to God the Father - unto death.  He fulfilled the one condition for DOMINION.  That one condition was perfect obedience. 

I do NOT believe that Jesus died the "second death".  That death is in the Lake of Fire.  Jesus was not thrown into the "Lake of Fire".  That is WHY He could be resurrected by His Father. 

Jesus was TESTED to the ultimate degree.  And do believe the Father withdrew Himself from His Son.  God treated His Son as a sinner beyond saving.  Without this separation - I'm not sure that Jesus could have died.  But this separation is not (in my understanding) "the second death".  

In my opinion:  "the iniquity of us all" was put "on Him" in this sense. 

Jesus knew that the eternal fate of "all" mankind rested upon His passing (or failing) the final TEST - torture by crucifixion, torment by demons, and death by separation from His Father.  Wow!  What a burden to carry.  I believe He was given a taste of it in the Garden, when He sweat blood. 

He was not "found guilty" by any Heavenly court, of the iniquity of "all mankind".  There is no record suggesting THAT.  He was - in fact - perfectly innocent.  His execution was perfectly UNJUST.  That was part of the TEST - to endure total injustice from both God and men, without complaining and without rebellion, and without calling God unjust (as Job did for quite awhile). 

I do not believe that Jesus was made the "whipping boy" for this world. 

Only confessed sin was put "on" to the lamb for the sin offering - NOT known rebellious sin for which there was no confession/repentance.   Jesus WAS "the sin offering".  If the iniquity of the entire race of human beings was somehow transferred to Jesus, then how would you separate out "known rebellious sin", from sin that would be confessed and forsaken.  And how could my sin have been transferred to Jesus.  I had not sinned yet.  I didn't even exist yet.  It doesn't make sense - that all sin past/present/future, was somehow transferred to Jesus. 

It makes more sense - to me - to say that He was TESTED to the max, in order to WIN dominion of the earth, and the right to forgive sins committed against God.

Just my opinion.
 

[8thdaypriest]

When I confess my sins, and ask forgiveness in His name - I am saying that I want to be reconciled to God our Father.  When I was baptized, and when I commemorate the Passover, I am SAYING that I want to be reconciled to God our Father.  When I refrain from sin, and do good in Jesus name, I am SAYING that I want to belong to Jesus, and to be part of His kingdom.

When I do these thing in Jesus' name, I am saying that I BELIEVE in what Jesus did, and in who Jesus is.  

During the OT period, those who desired reconciliation  with Yahweh, brought a sin offering, and a whole burnt offering, and then served Yahweh in their actions.  They also were making a STATEMENT of their allegiance. 

Those STATEMENTS and subsequent ACTIONS (or lack thereof) are the "evidence" by which we will be judged - by Jesus Christ.

I did not personally crucify Jesus, but His desire to forgive me WAS part of the reason why He went to that terrible death. Thus He did it FOR me, and FOR "us all".   He carried the burden of our iniquity because we were all "lost" in iniquity, and the only way to "save" some of us, was to win DOMINION of the earth and the right to forgive those who desire such healing.  

[8thdaypriest]

Jesus would REMOVE sin from "the world".  He would "take away" sin from this world.  He would "take away the sin of the world".

He would do this in stages. 

First:  He would WIN back dominion of the world (entire creation within this dimension).  He did this by incarnating into humanity, and then by living a life of perfect obedience to God the Father (as a human being), thus fulfilling the one condition for dominion, (first given to mankind in Adam and lost by Adam). 

Second:  He would become the High Priest, presenting the petitions of those who wished to be reconciled to God.  He would be "head of all things to the congregation". 

Third:  He would take up the DOMINION at the end of the age.  This is Revelation 11:15, when the 7th angel sounds.  "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ."  v. 17 "You have taken Your great power and reigned".  This is Daniel 7:14  "Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him." 

Fourth:  He would execute judgment upon the USURPER - Satan, from whom dominion is taken (Daniel 7:26), and upon those who chose to serve Satan.

Fifth:  He would rescue those who belong to Him and serve Him.

Sixth:  Those whom He does not choose for His own, will be obliterated by God the Father in a special "Lake of Fire" which was "created for the Devil and his angels". 

Seventh:  He would restore His dominion - creating an "earth made new" - without sin.

You can see that it all begins with the first step - His incarnation and perfect obedience until death. 

It was NOT death that Jesus offered to God.  It was perfect obedience. 

[JoeMo]

4 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Was Jesus a SUBSTITUTE for all mankind?  

I do not believe that He was.

Jesus died in place of me dying for my sins.  Jesus did not die to make bad people good; He died to make dead people alive.  The only way He could make me alive was to be a substitute for me at the judgment bar.  He may not be a substitute for all mankind; but He is definitely a substitute for me because I asked Him to be through my faith in Him as my Deliverer.

Deliverer - maybe that's a better word than substitute.  He delivered me from judgement.

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Jesus died in place of me dying for my sins.  Jesus did not die to make bad people good; He died to make dead people alive.  The only way He could make me alive was to be a substitute for me at the judgment bar.  He may not be a substitute for all mankind; but He is definitely a substitute for me because I asked Him to be through my faith in Him as my Deliverer.

Deliverer - maybe that's a better word than substitute.  He delivered me from judgement.

I could very easily see Jesus - at the judgment - saying "I died FOR this one" (meaning me).  OR - I claim this one for myself. 

It's like traditional Christianity is saying BOTH "He died in my place" (IF I accept Him) and "He didn't die in my place" (IF I don't accept Him).  How can it be both?  Either He DID or He DIDN'T.  Unless God foreknew exactly who would accept His Son, and how many sins each one would commit.  And He put only those sins onto His Son. 

Jesus could die FOR the whole world, and still loose the ones who refuse to accept Him as Lord.  Soldiers who fought FOR their country, fought FOR every citizen - even the ones who spit on them when they returned from Nam.  But would they go into business later, with the ones who spit on them.  Nope - unless their attitude had changed.

[8thdaypriest]

Here's my take on

1 Peter 3:18-20  “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

        Christ was “made alive” by the Spirit of God His Father (Rom. 8:11, Gal. 1:1).  God (who IS spirit) resurrected Christ, and God through Christ preached to “spirits in prison” back in the “days of Noah”.  He preached to them through Noah.  Peter is making the point that the SAME SPIRIT did both - resurrected Christ and inspired preaching in the days of Noah.     
    
    First:     The word “Hell” is NOT in this passage.
    Second:  The preaching was done back “in the days of Noah.”

        Third:   Christ testified through all of the Old Testament prophets (1Peter 1:11).

        Compare 1 Peter 4:6: “The gospel was preached (past tense) to those who are dead” (present tense).  It was preached to them in the past, while they were still alive.

        Fourth:  The people of Noah’s day were called “spirits in prison” because their minds (pneuma) were in bondage - to Satan and sin. (Compare Ps. 142:7;  Isa. 42:6,7;  Isa. 61:1;  Lk 4:18).

So - I'm pretty much in agreement with Jackson on this one.

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, jackson said:

JoeMo, I cannot even imagine what Jesus felt in the Garden of Gethsemane or the mental anguish He felt on the cross, but in my mind that is the horribleness of the Second death.

Had Jesus sinned during His life, I concede that He may have died the Second Death - never to return.  Yeah; He probably endured that mental torture that would have preceded the second death - the realization of the possibility that sin had permanently separated Him from His Father.  Even though I'm not a fan of EGW in general, I mostly agree with the texts you quoted.

 

[JoeMo]

41 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah

This verse can also be interpreted that Jesus preached to these spirits between His death and resurrection; and that these spirits were imprisoned in the days of Noah.  The Nicaean Creed (one of the earliest Christian statements of faith) states the chronology of events this way " "[Jesus] was crucified, died and was buried.  He descended into hell; and on the 3rd day He rose again from the dead".

[8thdaypriest]

11 hours ago, jackson said:

JoeMo, I cannot even imagine what Jesus felt in the Garden of Gethsemane or the mental anguish He felt on the cross, but in my mind that is the horribleness of the Second death. It is not the death itself, for once dead you "know not anything" I like the notion that He" rested on the Sabbath" and arose Sunday morning. 

I CAN AGREE with this.  It will be the realization that they have LOST eternal life - which they might have enjoyed.  THAT will be the punishment.  The terminally rebellious are resurrected to HEAR judgment pronounced against them.  Who knows - maybe they are given a little time to let the realization sink in.  But - I believe - their actually DEATH will be quick - like Nadab and Abihu, or the 250 princes.  I believe their DEATH will actually be merciful, because it will end their suffering.  And it certainly will prevent more suffering of others (should they be allowed to continue living) - so THAT is also merciful. 

If Jesus FELT His separation from the Father was permanent, THEN He DID experience the agony of "punishment death".  I don't call it the "second death" because I have a different understanding of "the second death".

Good insight Jackson!!  This kind of insight that makes the discussion worth it. 

Jesus could suffer punishment death FOR all of humanity, and still later reject (for His kingdom) those who have knowingly continued in resistance/rebellion against Him. 

All I'm saying is that Jesus' suffering FOR all of humanity, did not leave those who knowingly continue in rebellion/resistance free from guilt.  The punishment was not permanently REMOVED from them, when Christ suffered FOR them. 

Another topic - I realize.  But just wanted to comment on the when/what of "punishment" vs "second death".  Adventist theology puts both at the same event.  I do not.

In my view - there is "punishment death" and there is "the second death".   I believe the rebellious who are resurrected to judgment at the Second Coming, will then experience "punishment death" - death with the realization that they have lost eternal life.  Thus the "weeping and gnashing of teeth".  I believe there will be multitudes/many who are resurrected to this judgment at the Second Coming (Daniel 12:2-3). 

But - there will also be millions who are NOT RESURRECTED at the Second Coming.  These will be "the rest".  THEY will "not live again" for 1000 years.  These will be the people who were not able to CHOOSE Yahweh/and Christ because they were immature or ignorant because of life circumstances.  They must be given the opportunity to CHOOSE.  Everyone who is given eternal life in the Kingdom of Messiah, will have chosen to serve Him. 

These people will be resurrected to continue their lives on the earth, with Messiah ruling, to make their CHOICE concerning whom they will serve.  Those who join the Army of Gog, will experience "punishment death" when they come up in their attempt to overthrow the rule of Christ. 

THEN will come the final judgment, and AFTER THAT "the lake of fire".  In the text of Revelation, the final great white throne judgment, with the Ancient of Days presiding FOLLOWS AFTER Gog/Magog.  Hence the lost are all physically DEAD at that point.  So there is no suffering associated with "the second death" - for lost humans.  (Satan and his angels are another story.  They WILL be tormented there.) 

I see only (1) the resurrection to judgment at the Second Coming, and (2) the resurrection of "the rest" at the 8th millennium.  I don't see a THIRD resurrection.  Those who are thrown into the Lake of Fire, after the great white throne judgment ARE DEAD. 

Personally - I believe what is thrown into the "fire" is that part of a human being which God could use to resurrect him.  Call it a heavenly version of a memory stick download from a human mind.  After that "memory" is destroyed - it is impossible to resurrect that person again. 

If human beings are resurrected to judgment and "punishment death" at the Second Coming, why would God resurrect them AGAIN, to judgment them AGAIN, to execute them AGAIN a thousand years later.  In my mind, that doesn't make sense.  And I DO NOT BELIEVE the redeemed will want to exact further vengeance in the form of intense suffering, upon "the wicked".   They will be ready to "let it go".  If God were to inflict further intense torment upon human beings, no matter how wicked - with the universe of redeemed watching, WHAT MESSAGE would that send.  In my mind, that would take us right back to obedience from FEAR.  It's just not something I see God doing.  

Just my opinion.

 

[8thdaypriest]

5 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

This verse can also be interpreted that Jesus preached to these spirits between His death and resurrection; and that these spirits were imprisoned in the days of Noah.  The Nicaean Creed (one of the earliest Christian statements of faith) states the chronology of events this way " "[Jesus] was crucified, died and was buried.  He descended into hell; and on the 3rd day He rose again from the dead".

I believe Jesus WAS DEAD - sleeping in death, like every other dead human.

[8thdaypriest]

Jesus suffering of "punishment death" was the worst TEST that He must endure.   We know that Satan was trying to break Him - to cause Him to rebel against the will of His Father.  I myself wonder if the demons (let loose without restraint upon Christ) so clouded His mind, that Jesus thought He was separated from His Father forever.  Just a moment before He actually died, this cloud was lifted, and Christ realized that He had won.

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I believe Jesus WAS DEAD - sleeping in death, like every other dead human.

Jesus was both Divine and Human.  While His "humanity" died, I have a hard time believing that His eternal divinity perished with Him.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

Jesus was both Divine and Human.  While His "humanity" died, I have a hard time believing that His eternal divinity perished with Him.

But His divinity could "sleep" - without perishing.

Without a BODY for Him to live in and act through, His divinity would be sleeping too.  I don't believe the Son of God was conscious and doing things in the spirit realm during the period when His human body was in the tomb.  JMO. 

He was STILL living in, and acting through His human body, albeit a glorified body, when He appeared to John.   My whole belief concerning the state of the dead, revolves around my belief that without a body - there IS no life for a created being.  The Son of God WAS - before His incarnation - "spirit", just like His divine Father.  When He incarnated into a human BODY, He was no longer "spirit".   After He was glorified, the spirit of His Father flowed through Him, to us, thereby enabling Him to be "with us".