The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled

[Gustave]

2 hours ago, Rahab said:

during the 1,000 years there is no man on earth

 

Jer 4:23  I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Where are you getting this????

[Rahab]

18 minutes ago, Gustave said:

Where are you getting this????

Jeremiah 4:23

[stinsonmarri]

23 hours ago, phkrause said:

Yep two resurrections,

John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,  29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

and than Revelation where the two are shown to be 1000 years apart!!

 

Let's make it even clearer, when YAHSHUA returns the second time it will be called the Executive Judgment. You see we are made like THE THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS in Heaven. So, we here on earth have the same type of Judgement, the only difference is our is sinful in certain things, but not the principle. Follow ELOHIYM'S JUDGEMENT along with ours and you will see. We do not yet, clearly understand HIS JUDGEMENT nor what Edison saw when he was walking across the field. What he saw was Rev Chapter 4, and 5; it was THE MOST HOLY PLACE. Chapter four explains THE PLACE in detail if you would just read it yourself! 

You first read that a door open for John. John said a voice talked to him like a trumpet. In College, I learned being in Afrikan first; that my people drums talk, and I heard in class! The voice told John he was going to showed to him what hereafter would come to pass. Those do not understand, it is not going to be soon. A day is like a Thousand years to YAHWEH, please think. We used the word spirit too much and really do not understand it at all. We think we are spirit beings inside of us. Not true, we are flesh beings through and through. John was in his mind look it up and it will tell you various shades of meaning only two are true. Both the Holy angels and evil angels are spirit beings along with THE THREE ALMIGHTY BEINGS. Heb 1:1-7 We want to compile also the soul and flesh beings as spirit and that is not true. What is true when they say vital principles which is the mind- true and simple!

What we do to make us believe we are in a computer, YAHWEH DOES IT for real. HE taps into the mind and actually and physically carried John to Heaven, his body is still here! These are our CREATORS, you nor I never think, act or have ways like THEM now! Then John saw THE FATHER sitting on HIS Throne, HE had various precious stones covering HIM and  around HIM. John could not see HIS FACE and the rainbow around HIM looking like an emerald.

Now, here comes the similarity to our courtroom. The twenty four elders was with the multitude that was risen with YAHSHUA as a witness of HIS OWN POWER, HE laid down HIS LIFE to become flesh like Adam and die for the entire world! 1Chron 24:1-19, Matt:27:51-53,  Eph 4:8 We do do not know who was risen with THE MESSIAH, but I want to believe that Able was one of those elders! So, now we have a jury of our peers and the rest of the multitude are there as witnesses. Keep in mind Enoch, Moses and Elijah are also there and can be one of the elders. I personally think they are. Notice they have a crown and YAHSHUA has the Bible says many crowns, do you get it! The lamps of fire are seven spirits of ELOHIYM. Again, we want to make it like mythology. Angels are spirits that surround and carries the Throne-read Ezekiel Chapters 1-10 please. The four living creatures referred to are also angels, they are Seraphim. Isa 6:1-7 These angels means “burning ones,” and they fly above THE FATHER'S Throne. These angels constantly glorify and praise with song;  "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY IS YAHWEH ALMIGHTY!" Their song of praise is so POWERFUL that the 24 Elders cast their crowns down before THE FATHER and they said:

Thou art WORTHY, O SOVEREIGN, even our ELOHIYM, to receive Worship and HONOUR and POWER: for THOU HAST CREATED all things, and for THY PLEASURE they are and were created. Rev 4:11  

Many of you who think it is wrong to shout, dance and praise THE ALMIGHTY FATHER! You can do at a game for your favorite sport player who owes you nothing! But you can't do for THE CREATOR! Well Heaven does and the scene of the Judgement stopped or pause to give Praises to THE ONE who send HIS SON to save me, I do not about you. I need to pause too, THANK YOU FATHER!

[TrevorL]

Greetings Rahab,

15 hours ago, Rahab said:

during the 1,000 years there is no man on earth 

Jer 4:23  I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

But there are many prophecies that detail what will happen upon the earth during the 1000 years, for example Zechariah 14 clearly speaks of mortal nations, and Isaiah 65:17-25 also speak of this period and call it the new heaven and new earth, and again mortals are mentioned.

Your reference of Jeremiah 4:23 is set in the context of the anticipated invasion by Babylon in Jeremiah's time, and the desolation of the city and the children of Israel taken into captivity. Jeremiah 4:23 and much of the context appears to be figurative language. The whole of the passage could be quoted to show this context, but a few of the verses should suffice:

Jeremiah 4:19–29 (KJV): 19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. 20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.

When God's judgements occur at the return of Jesus, there will be some destruction and burning, but Peter tells us that the overall effect of the return of Jesus will be a time of blessing, times of refreshing and restoration.

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Two of the many passages that Peter could have referred to and expounded could have been Isaiah 2:1-5 and Zechariah 14, and these are like bookends to much of the detail of the blessings of the coming Kingdom of God upon the earth during the 1000 years, see also Daniel 2:35,44.

Kind regards Trevor

[Gustave]

15 hours ago, Rahab said:

Jeremiah 4:23

That's speaking of Jerusalem and those cities that surrounded Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with a "global" event. It's speaking of the "fruitful land" (Israel). "Horsemen and archers" are running around causing folks to flee from their home and dig into weeds and thickets like rodents.  

 

[Rahab]

59 minutes ago, Gustave said:

That's speaking of Jerusalem and those cities that surrounded Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with a "global" event. It's speaking of the "fruitful land" (Israel). "Horsemen and archers" are running around causing folks to flee from their home and dig into weeds and thickets like rodents.  

 

prophets speak of their time and future times as well, check it out

[Rahab]

5 hours ago, Gustave said:

That's speaking of Jerusalem and those cities that surrounded Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with a "global" event. It's speaking of the "fruitful land" (Israel). "Horsemen and archers" are running around causing folks to flee from their home and dig into weeds and thickets like rodents.  

 

G & T
 

Verse 22 ends the talk of Jerusalem and their time. 
 

verse 22 is different 

 

Jeremiah 4:25 KJV
[25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

no man? No birds? This is during the time of 1,000 years 

 

check it out 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Rahab,

12 hours ago, Rahab said:

prophets speak of their time and future times as well, check it out

Yes, there are sometimes an application in the day of the prophet and sometimes also the future. I have already checked out some of these, but like any of these we begin a journey and increase in understanding over many years, and possibly never fully arrive on any particular prophecy. Take for example the rest of Isaiah 2 which seems to talk about an earthquake, but this is not mentioned in the two historical records, or again in Isaiah. But consider two other mentions of an earthquake in the days of Uzziah:

Isaiah 2:19–21 (KJV): 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Amos 1:1 (KJV):  The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.

Zechariah 14:1–5 (KJV): 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The above verses of Zechariah 14 speak about the return of Jesus to the Mount of Olives, refer Acts 1:11, and the events that occur at that time and some details of the Kingdom of God upon the earth. In many respects Zechariah 14 is parallel with Isaiah 1:1-5.

In my youth I discussed Zechariah 14 with a senior SDA, and he said that he could not understand why God gave Zechariah 14. At a similar time, one of my workmate's mothers sent a SDA Pastor and his assistant to my house and the Pastor's answer to the detail in such passages as Zechariah 14 is that these passages will never be fulfilled, and would have only been fulfilled if the Jews had accepted Jesus. Both of these encounters had an effect on the rest of my life, to walk away from SDA beliefs and accept the Kingdom of God upon the earth as per Isaiah 2:1-5 and many other passages.

Kind regards Trevor

 

[Rahab]

yes, T. some of those sections that you mention are of the 3rd coming of Christ...   and the battles of Gog and Magog

we know that at the 2nd coming Jesus' feet will not touch the ground and the angels will accompany Him

at the 3rd coming Jesus will come with all the saints

[Rahab]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:42 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Let's make it even clearer, when YAHSHUA returns the second time it will be called the Executive Judgment. You see we are made like THE THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS in Heaven. So, we here on earth have the same type of Judgement, the only difference is our is sinful in certain things, but not the principle. Follow ELOHIYM'S JUDGEMENT along with ours and you will see. We do not yet, clearly understand HIS JUDGEMENT nor what Edison saw when he was walking across the field. What he saw was Rev Chapter 4, and 5; it was THE MOST HOLY PLACE. Chapter four explains THE PLACE in detail if you would just read it yourself! 

You first read that a door open for John. John said a voice talked to him like a trumpet. In College, I learned being in Afrikan first; that my people drums talk, and I heard in class! The voice told John he was going to showed to him what hereafter would come to pass. Those do not understand, it is not going to be soon. A day is like a Thousand years to YAHWEH, please think. We used the word spirit too much and really do not understand it at all. We think we are spirit beings inside of us. Not true, we are flesh beings through and through. John was in his mind look it up and it will tell you various shades of meaning only two are true. Both the Holy angels and evil angels are spirit beings along with THE THREE ALMIGHTY BEINGS. Heb 1:1-7 We want to compile also the soul and flesh beings as spirit and that is not true. What is true when they say vital principles which is the mind- true and simple!

What we do to make us believe we are in a computer, YAHWEH DOES IT for real. HE taps into the mind and actually and physically carried John to Heaven, his body is still here! These are our CREATORS, you nor I never think, act or have ways like THEM now! Then John saw THE FATHER sitting on HIS Throne, HE had various precious stones covering HIM and  around HIM. John could not see HIS FACE and the rainbow around HIM looking like an emerald.

Now, here comes the similarity to our courtroom. The twenty four elders was with the multitude that was risen with YAHSHUA as a witness of HIS OWN POWER, HE laid down HIS LIFE to become flesh like Adam and die for the entire world! 1Chron 24:1-19, Matt:27:51-53,  Eph 4:8 We do do not know who was risen with THE MESSIAH, but I want to believe that Able was one of those elders! So, now we have a jury of our peers and the rest of the multitude are there as witnesses. Keep in mind Enoch, Moses and Elijah are also there and can be one of the elders. I personally think they are. Notice they have a crown and YAHSHUA has the Bible says many crowns, do you get it! The lamps of fire are seven spirits of ELOHIYM. Again, we want to make it like mythology. Angels are spirits that surround and carries the Throne-read Ezekiel Chapters 1-10 please. The four living creatures referred to are also angels, they are Seraphim. Isa 6:1-7 These angels means “burning ones,” and they fly above THE FATHER'S Throne. These angels constantly glorify and praise with song;  "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY IS YAHWEH ALMIGHTY!" Their song of praise is so POWERFUL that the 24 Elders cast their crowns down before THE FATHER and they said:

Thou art WORTHY, O SOVEREIGN, even our ELOHIYM, to receive Worship and HONOUR and POWER: for THOU HAST CREATED all things, and for THY PLEASURE they are and were created. Rev 4:11  

Many of you who think it is wrong to shout, dance and praise THE ALMIGHTY FATHER! You can do at a game for your favorite sport player who owes you nothing! But you can't do for THE CREATOR! Well Heaven does and the scene of the Judgement stopped or pause to give Praises to THE ONE who send HIS SON to save me, I do not about you. I need to pause too, THANK YOU FATHER!

Just a short comment ..   When Jesus comes the 2nd time it is not the execution of judgment yet.  The judgment is in 3 phases.  First the pre-advent judgment of who is holy and who is not.  Then Jesus comes to take the sheep on the right back to heaven, this is phase 2.  When Jesus comes again at the 3rd coming, now is the execution of the judgment of the wicked.

Mentioned in Jude;  Jud 1:14  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 
Jud 1:15  To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 

 

check it out  ?

[Rahab]

Zechariah is a difficult book to study.  Much prayer is needed.  Many parts zigzag back and forth:  past and future.

[Gustave]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:02 PM, Rahab said:

G & T
 

Verse 22 ends the talk of Jerusalem and their time. 
 

verse 22 is different 

 

Jeremiah 4:25 KJV
[25] I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

no man? No birds? This is during the time of 1,000 years 

 

check it out 

No man and no birds in the sky's around Jerusalem. This simply isn't a global event described here.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Rahab,

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

yes, T. some of those sections that you mention are of the 3rd coming of Christ...   and the battles of Gog and Magog

I parallel Zechariah 14 with Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45 and Joel 3, each giving additional detail. Yes there will be a Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years, but the Gog and Magog is at the beginning of the 1000 years at a time when the dispersed children of Israel have again returned from their dispersion.

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

we know that at the 2nd coming Jesus' feet will not touch the ground and the angels will accompany Him

I think you may be quoting SDA literature on that one, as Acts 1:11, Acts 3:19-21 and Zechariah 14:4 seem to me at least to teach that Jesus will return and will no longer be in heaven. Psalm 110:1 could also be considered.

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

at the 3rd coming Jesus will come with all the saints

At the 2nd coming Jesus will come with the glorified faithful to judge the nations, beginning possibly with the Battle of Armageddon. These faithful saints will have been judged before this, and then glorified, as judgement must begin at the house of God 

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

Then Jesus comes to take the sheep on the right back to heaven

I find no evidence of heaven going. The meek shall inherit the earth.

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

When Jesus comes again at the 3rd coming, now is the execution of the judgment of the wicked. Mentioned in Jude;  Jude 1:14-15.

He will judge the wicked at his 2nd coming. The wicked at the end of the 1000 years are the unfaithful mortals who have lived during the 1000 years Isaiah 65:17-20, Zechariah 14:15-19. Jude is speaking about the 2nd coming.

14 hours ago, Rahab said:

Zechariah is a difficult book to study.  Much prayer is needed.  Many parts zigzag back and forth:  past and future.

When you come up with a satisfactory explanation of  Zechariah 14 please let me know, as it seems to be lacking from SDAs and their literature. "check it out". In one SDA book when speaking about the Millennium, it details three groups that were combined in giving some support to William Miller and his view of 1843. There were some Millerites that agreed with William Miller that the earth was going to be burnt and the faithful taken to heaven, and it also mentions two other groups including British Millerites. Some of these believed in the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth when Jesus returned, and some also believed that the Jews would return to the Holy Land and form the first dominion as per Ezekiel 38-39 and Micah 4:1-8. I endorse this third group.

Kind regards Trevor

[phkrause]

14 hours ago, TrevorL said:

I find no evidence of heaven going. The meek shall inherit the earth.

We have in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (RSV) these words:

16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;

17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

This is the second coming? Is it not? So here it tells us that Jesus comes to get us and takes us to Heaven!!

 

Now in Revelation 20:4-6 (RSV) we have these words:

 

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

This tells us that at the second coming Jesus comes and gets those that don't have the mark of the beast (the righteous) and brings them to heaven, which is the first resurrection and it also says that the rest of the dead are not raised until the 1000 years are over!! So please don't say that we are not going to heaven to be with Jesus for 1000 years when it plainly states this right here! And that the rest of those that have not been resurrected are dead until the 1000 years are over!! At the end of chapter 20 it talks about the dead being judged and than in chapter 21 we read where we come back to a new heaven and new earth and God will dwell with us forever!!

 

 

[Rahab]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:14 AM, Rahab said:

yes, T. some of those sections that you mention are of the 3rd coming of Christ...   and the battles of Gog and Magog

we know that at the 2nd coming Jesus' feet will not touch the ground and the angels will accompany Him

at the 3rd coming Jesus will come with all the saints

Rev 20:7  And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 
Rev 20:8  And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[this is after the 1,000 years, Gog and Magog]

 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 

[all the righteous dead risen and living will be caught UP together with Jesus in the clouds.  His feet will not touch the ground]

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[This is the 2nd coming of Jesus where He takes the saints with Him to heaven.]

[Rahab]

T start a new thread on Zechariah.  And we will go there..

[TrevorL]

Greetings again phkrause and Rahab,

9 hours ago, phkrause said:

We have in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (RSV) these words: ...  This is the second coming? Is it not? So here it tells us that Jesus comes to get us and takes us to Heaven!!

 

9 hours ago, Rahab said:

1Th 4:16-17 ... [all the righteous dead risen and living will be caught UP together with Jesus in the clouds.  His feet will not touch the ground]

You have both quoted 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. I understand this to be figurative language, that the faithful will be the new clouds, ruling over the earth. I also consider Isaiah 26:19-21 as an indication that after the resurrection the faithful will be hidden upon the earth for a while together with those faithful that were alive when Jesus returns.

 

9 hours ago, Rahab said:

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[This is the 2nd coming of Jesus where He takes the saints with Him to heaven.]

The faithful cannot be kings and priests if all the mortals have been killed and the earth empty.

9 hours ago, Rahab said:

T start a new thread on Zechariah.  And we will go there.

I am interested in the Book of Zechariah and have extensive notes that I have written on chapters 1-3, while I have a general overall view of much of the rest. Even here there are some very interesting verses which teach important lessons. I suggest that we each need to examine the book individually, unless you have some comments on a particular portion.  But to me Zechariah 14 is very clear in its detail, giving a clear picture of the events leading up to the Kingdom and some aspects of the Kingdom of God upon the earth during the 1000 years. I find it interesting that you like to quote Jeremiah 4:23, but this is first related to the Babylonian captivity. I suggest that the Assyrian invasion in Hezekiah's time is more often used as a pattern of the second coming of Christ, for example Isaiah 53, Micah 5:1-5.

Kind regards Trevor

[phkrause]

15 hours ago, TrevorL said:

You have both quoted 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. I understand this to be figurative language, that the faithful will be the new clouds, ruling over the earth. I also consider Isaiah 26:19-21 as an indication that after the resurrection the faithful will be hidden upon the earth for a while together with those faithful that were alive when Jesus returns.

It is not figurative language!! Not sure where you came up with that

[Rahab]

T, it just seems like we ready the Word of God differently.  

[TrevorL]

Greetings again phkrause and Rahab,

8 hours ago, phkrause said:

It is not figurative language!! Not sure where you came up with that

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV): Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We had a lecture on this verse recently by one of our senior expositors, but I have not fully digested it as yet. I am more conscious of the many verses that teach the return of Jesus and the establishment of the Kingdom. Part of his exposition was that “caught up” can be rendered “caught away”, the same word use concerning Philip after he had preached to the Ethiopian Eunuch. And the word “air” is not speaking of going to heaven, but can be considered to be figurative of the “ruling atmosphere” of this world.

6 hours ago, Rahab said:

T, it just seems like we ready the Word of God differently.  

Yes, when you encounter a clear SDA exposition of the detail of Zechariah 14 I would be interested. As far as Zechariah is concerned, I am interested in the first part where it talks about the return of the Jews from captivity in Babylon and the rebuilding of the Temple. I understand this to be in many respects a dual application of what will happen when Jesus returns, the Jews are regathered and the Temple built. My favourite chapter is Zechariah 3. I also like the fact that it talks about the 70 years in Zechariah 1:12 and this is a dual application in another sense that the 70 years has two starting dates and two termination dates. I also use this in Daniel 8 where I understand Daniel 8:13 the 2300 days has a number of starting and ending dates, including the most obvious BC 334-333 to AD 1967 the recapture of Jerusalem by the Jews.

My first note in my Zechariah Notes is a breakup of the Book, and you will most probably find something similar in many commentaries. I most probably borrowed most of this:

Analysis - Yahweh hath remembered and Yahweh hath blessed at the appointed time

1:1-8:23 Prophecies given whilst the Temple was being rebuilt

A - 1:1-6:8 The night of seven visions

1:1-6 True repentance will be rewarded

1:7-17 1st Vision: Four horsemen - Zion shall see prosperity

1:18-21 2nd Vision: Four craftsmen to terrify Israel's adversaries

2:1-13 3rd Vision: Jerusalem's down-treading is limited

3:1-10 4th Vision: A change of raiment for the High Priest

4:1-14 5th Vision: The world to be illuminated by Divine light

5:1-11 6th Vision: The flight of the storks

6:1-8 7th Vision: Two mountains of brass and four chariots of war

 

B - 6:9-8:23 Enacted parables

6:9-15 Exiles from Babylon witness the coronation of Joshua

7:1-14 Deputation from Bethel instructed in true righteousness

8:1-17 Words of encouragement outlining future blessings for Jerusalem

8:18-23 How fasts will be converted into joyful festivities

 

9:1-14:21 Prophecies given after the Temple was completed

C - 9:1-11:17 Prophecies showing the limitations of present labour

9:1-17 Human conqueror or Divine Prince of Peace

10:1-12 The future work of the Good Shepherd

11:1-17 The rejection of the Good Shepherd and the scattering of the flock

 

D - 12:1-14:21 The coming day of Yahweh

12:1-14 Israel to seek the Good Shepherd

13:1-9 Israel to be cleansed and grafted into the olive tree

14:1-:21 The glorious consummation: Yahweh universally honoured

 Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:19 AM, Rahab said:

Just a short comment ..   When Jesus comes the 2nd time it is not the execution of judgment yet.  The judgment is in 3 phases.  First the pre-advent judgment of who is holy and who is not.  Then Jesus comes to take the sheep on the right back to heaven, this is phase 2.  When Jesus comes again at the 3rd coming, now is the execution of the judgment of the wicked.

Mentioned in Jude;  Jud 1:14  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 
Jud 1:15  To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 

 

check it out  ?

Thanks you but THE FATHER IS THE JUDGE, THE SON does the Executive Judgement. I will get to that Rahab but I wanted to continue with Rev Chapter 5 that Edison saw and if we study it closely you will see THE FATHER IS THE JUDGE.

Chapter 5: We already see THE FATHER sitting on HIS Throne but we had to pause while the elders and the angels were giving HIM shout of praises and GLORY! The scene returns and not their is a Book in HIS RIGHT HAND! A strong angel shout loudly to the those in the Courtroom; who is worthy to open the Book in THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND! John looks and neither the 24 elders nor any of the angels or the rest of the multitude of saints that were raised were found worthy. John realize that no on in Heaven or on earth was worthy to open the Book. He wept, so would have I but wait-YAHSHUA appears as A LAMB that was slain. And one of the elder told John not to weep because in the midst of THE FATHER'S Throne, the angel and the 24 thrones stood the slain Lamb! Now, THE LAMB having seven horn, seven eyes that seven spirits from ELOHIYM again is understandable. These angels are seven angels, remember that have a calf face that does have horns. ELOHIYM could be THE FATHER, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT. Let pause here to prove this Gen 1:2 say THE SPIRIT and the word of is not in the Hebrew, that was put there because those who refuse to believe that HE does not speaks of HIMSELF. John 6:13. So, it should say THE SPIRIT ELOHIYM. HE also sealed us for redemption (again of is not in the Greek when it was originally quoted either). Eph 4:30 Finally, HE IS THE ONE who leads and guide us into truth! John 6:13  YAHSHUA IS ELOHIYM too! Ex 23:20, 22 John 1: 1-3 That why the Bible speaks of ELOHIYM it could be all THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS or ONE of THE THREE. If you knew the History of the Old Language you would know that EL or ELOAH was use more and ELOHIYM were put in the place of the singular word instead.

YAHSHUA took the Book out of HIS FATHER'S RIGHT HAND. The 24 elders now have Golden Harps and Golden Vials that are full of odor which are the prayers of the saint on earth in them. When YAHSHUA takes the Book they also fall on their knees and they sing a new song. They sing to THE FATHER that YAHSHUA IS WORTHY to take the Book. Because HE HAS REDEEM people from evertonguee and nation  on the earth. Making us kings and priests with HIS BLOOD and HE IS WORTHY to take the the Book! They sung with a host of angels and the Sephrims around THE FATHER'S THRONE! These angels in Heaven sung worthy is THE LAMB TO RECEIVED POWER, GLORY, RICHES WISDOM, and STRENGTH, and HONOR and BLESSINGS. Then John said to all creatures in Heaven and earth and the sea, BLESSINGS, HONOR and GLORY to BOTH THE FATHER and THE SON  FOREVER and FOREVER! The Sephrims said "Amen," and the four elders worship THEM!

Then THE LAMB or YAHSHUA open the Book. We need to take the time and read and also understand the Book. We get hung on the seals and not what is inside every time the Book pages opens for us  to look and see. Also you need to know what is The Book?

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/1/2021 at 12:33 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Rahab,

Yes, there are sometimes an application in the day of the prophet and sometimes also the future. I have already checked out some of these, but like any of these we begin a journey and increase in understanding over many years, and possibly never fully arrive on any particular prophecy. Take for example the rest of Isaiah 2 which seems to talk about an earthquake, but this is not mentioned in the two historical records, or again in Isaiah. But consider two other mentions of an earthquake in the days of Uzziah:

Isaiah 2:19–21 (KJV): 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

Amos 1:1 (KJV):  The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.

Zechariah 14:1–5 (KJV): 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The above verses of Zechariah 14 speak about the return of Jesus to the Mount of Olives, refer Acts 1:11, and the events that occur at that time and some details of the Kingdom of God upon the earth. In many respects Zechariah 14 is parallel with Isaiah 1:1-5.

In my youth I discussed Zechariah 14 with a senior SDA, and he said that he could not understand why God gave Zechariah 14. At a similar time, one of my workmate's mothers sent a SDA Pastor and his assistant to my house and the Pastor's answer to the detail in such passages as Zechariah 14 is that these passages will never be fulfilled, and would have only been fulfilled if the Jews had accepted Jesus. Both of these encounters had an effect on the rest of my life, to walk away from SDA beliefs and accept the Kingdom of God upon the earth as per Isaiah 2:1-5 and many other passages.

Kind regards Trevor

 

Trevor: You are right about YAHSHUA TOUCHING MT Olivet. But the remnant was those who return to rebuild the temple and the city during Ezra and Nehemiah.

Happy Sabbath.

[stinsonmarri]

23 hours ago, TrevorL said:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV): Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You said you do not need expositors to understand this. It is self understandable by THE HOLY SPIRIT, HE LEADS US INTO ALL TRUTH only! Those alive and remain will be call up with those who were asleep or who died in the resurrection. All of them all together who will saved by YAHUSHUA.  How on earth is that not hard to understand. Old British English to modern take the WOY:

For THE MASTER, HIMSELF shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of THE ARCHANGEL, and with THE TRUMP of YAHWEH: and the dead in THE MESSIAH shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet THE MASTER in the air: and so shall we ever be with THE MASTER. 

Happy Sabbath Blessing!

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1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

On 6/4/2021 at 12:45 AM, TrevorL said:

We had a lecture on this verse recently by one of our senior expositors, but I have not fully digested it as yet. 

Yes, when you encounter a clear SDA exposition of the detail of Zechariah 14 I would be interested.

You said you do not need expositors to understand this. It is self understandable by THE HOLY SPIRIT, HE LEADS US INTO ALL TRUTH only!

Quote

Definition of expositor
: a person who explains

Definition of exposition
1 : a setting forth of the meaning or purpose (as of a writing)

Don't see where TrevorL said an expositor was needed.

One thing I have noticed is that some deny the need for a "learned person" to explain Bible truths as they can figure out everything just by reading their Bible. However, they want you to sit and listen to their "expositoring" on their view of the Bible. This is troubling.

First, if I can just "get it" by reading the Bible, I need not listen to anyone or read anyone! However, if I sit in a corner and just read the Bible and perhaps arrive at my own interpretation then I have demonstrated what Peter was writing about when he talked about private interpretations of the Bible. It seems that some amount of study in groups with other serious students of the Bible is highly recommended or desirable. That way, erroneous ideas can be checked.

Given that group study is desirable, reading the works of expositors, or theologians, even if passed from this life,  is one way for them to remain a part of the conversation. Sometimes when you have drift in the general understanding, going back to those of the "old paths" can be a way of correcting creeping errors.

It is a bit of a stretch to say that no one but the Holy Spirit is necessary to lead us into truth. This effectively denies that the "old writers" or even current theologians were/are speaking the words from the Holy Spirit. I tend to find some writers write so deeply, that the Holy Spirit must even interpret them for me! I must say nothing is more exciting than reading a difficult passage and then have a burst of meaning flow from it. Epiphanies make my day!

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On 5/28/2021 at 2:14 AM, TrevorL said:

Possibly you are waiting to be taken to heaven some time after a universal proclamation of a Sunday Law.

Many or most SDAs may yet suffer the second great disappointment unless they start to read the detail of the prophets and the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles correctly.

Don't believe any group has studied Bible prophecy as much as SDAs (I still have one writer who I am collecting his works and will dig into them as soon as I get one other project done). And I have seen enough to believe I will stay with the SDA theologians in their interpretations of Bible prophecies. All that said, it has even been prophesied that many SDAs will have a great disappointment at the Second Coming as they take the part of the foolish virgins. 

I do find it amusing, sort of, that some are putting down SDAs for the idea of a universal proclamation of a Sunday law, when the very same thing is being done today. It is being fulfilled as we speak!