The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri and B/W Photodude, 

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

You are right about YAHSHUA TOUCHING MT Olivet.

Yes, and I believe that Jesus will then stay upon the earth for the 1000 years as the King / Priest on the Throne of David in the temple in literal Jerusalem as per Isaiah 2:1-5, Isaiah 6:1-3, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44 and all of Zechariah 14.

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

But the remnant was those who return to rebuild the temple and the city during Ezra and Nehemiah.

Yes, the first application was during this return from Babylon, but many of the details of the seven visions have a greater fulfillment in the time of Christ and in the future.  

34 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

Don't believe any group has studied Bible prophecy as much as SDAs (I still have one writer who I am collecting his works and will dig into them as soon as I get one other project done).

Well then, if they have studied Bible prophecy extensively and written about this, then possibly some of the SDA expositors have given a clear and simple exposition of Zechariah 14. What do they write about the feet touching the Mount of Olives and the mortal nations coming up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles?

34 minutes ago, B/W Photodude said:

I do find it amusing, sort of, that some are putting down SDAs for the idea of a universal proclamation of a Sunday law, when the very same thing is being done today. It is being fulfilled as we speak!

Possibly they will have difficulty in Australia, as Sunday is the main day for shopping, football, cricket and surfing. Will shopping and sport be allowed? Zechariah 12:3 seems to indicate that the problem of the status of Jerusalem will be one of the greatest controversies at the end times and Zechariah 14:1-2 appears to be the actions of the nations attempting to solve this problem. This seems to be increasingly the focus of the nations, the status of Jerusalem and the two state solution.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

10 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

Don't see where TrevorL said an expositor was needed.

One thing I have noticed is that some deny the need for a "learned person" to explain Bible truths as they can figure out everything just by reading their Bible. However, they want you to sit and listen to their "expositoring" on their view of the Bible. This is troubling.

First, if I can just "get it" by reading the Bible, I need not listen to anyone or read anyone! However, if I sit in a corner and just read the Bible and perhaps arrive at my own interpretation then I have demonstrated what Peter was writing about when he talked about private interpretations of the Bible. It seems that some amount of study in groups with other serious students of the Bible is highly recommended or desirable. That way, erroneous ideas can be checked.

Given that group study is desirable, reading the works of expositors, or theologians, even if passed from this life,  is one way for them to remain a part of the conversation. Sometimes when you have drift in the general understanding, going back to those of the "old paths" can be a way of correcting creeping errors.

It is a bit of a stretch to say that no one but the Holy Spirit is necessary to lead us into truth. This effectively denies that the "old writers" or even current theologians were/are speaking the words from the Holy Spirit. I tend to find some writers write so deeply, that the Holy Spirit must even interpret them for me! I must say nothing is more exciting than reading a difficult passage and then have a burst of meaning flow from it. Epiphanies make my day!

Happy Sabbath Photodude you stated: "Don't see where TrevorL said an expositor was needed." To clear up the matter he actually stated this: "We had a lecture on this verse recently by one of our senior expositors, but I have not fully digested it as yet. I am more conscious of the many verses that teach the return of Jesus and the establishment of the Kingdom." To be clear, he had not digested the expositor lecture on the verse. He also has mention expositors, commentators before.

Thank you kindly for defining the meaning of the word expositor.

Definition of expositor: a person who explains

Definition of exposition
1 : a setting forth of the meaning or purpose (as of a writing)

That helps me in the point I can make to you. But I will allow EGW to state it to you; she says it so beautifully.

The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as THE VOICE of God; they were erring mortals like ourselves. God has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor. TM p. 105

So, dear friend I agree and I was explaining to Trevor that the Bible explains itself. The Bible itself sets forth its meaning or purpose. Here is those meaning exactly:

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. 2Peter 1:20  

Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive THE DIVINE ENLIGHTENMENT. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, is it true--in harmony with God's WORD? But, by whom is it advocated and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices. TM p. 105

Study to show thyself approved unto ELOHIYM a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Ti 2:15  

THE MASTER often works where we least expect Him; HE surprises us by revealing HIS POWERS through instruments of HIS OWN Choice, while HE passes by the men to whom we have looked as those through whom light should come. God desires us to receive the truth upon its own merits--because it is truth. TM p. 105

In closing, we get lead astray on words that were not written in ancient time. We refuse to believe that YAHWEH is no respect of person. Many do not want to accept that HE came to the Black Canaanites first, and they fail. Then to Abraham descendants and HE chose Jacob and his sons for a reason. It was to show how to overcome. Jacob became Israel who overcame deceit and lying! His older 10 sons had jealousy to like their father and other sins. But they changed and nine overcame. Joseph his son and Benjamin had some they too overcame and they made up the final 12. Most refuse to accept the curse YAHWEH put on the Hebrews and they finalized it by killing HIS SON! They curse themselves and the temple fell and so did their belief. The Pharisees started in 300 AD a Rabbinical school near Tel Aviv. From this school a new religion was formed Rabbinical Judaic. This false religion had nothing to do with YAHWEH and IsraEL! Many of Japheth children joined the religion after the dispersion, when Rome destroyed the temple. The Ashkenazi and their kin took over the religion and they were called Jews during the Middle Ages. The Jews expositors explain themselves in their own almanac. They should know their own history.

Photodue, I hope my exposition explain to you what I meant.

Be Bless!

[stinsonmarri]

15 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri and B/W Photodude, 

Yes, and I believe that Jesus will then stay upon the earth for the 1000 years as the King / Priest on the Throne of David in the temple in literal Jerusalem as per Isaiah 2:1-5, Isaiah 6:1-3, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44 and all of Zechariah 14.

Yes, the first application was during this return from Babylon, but many of the details of the seven visions have a greater fulfillment in the time of Christ and in the future.  

Well then, if they have studied Bible prophecy extensively and written about this, then possibly some of the SDA expositors have given a clear and simple exposition of Zechariah 14. What do they write about the feet touching the Mount of Olives and the mortal nations coming up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles?

Possibly they will have difficulty in Australia, as Sunday is the main day for shopping, football, cricket and surfing. Will shopping and sport be allowed? Zechariah 12:3 seems to indicate that the problem of the status of Jerusalem will be one of the greatest controversies at the end times and Zechariah 14:1-2 appears to be the actions of the nations attempting to solve this problem. This seems to be increasingly the focus of the nations, the status of Jerusalem and the two state solution.

Kind regards Trevor

Hit submit by mistake.

[stinsonmarri]

5 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri and B/W Photodude, 

Yes, and I believe that Jesus will then stay upon the earth for the 1000 years as the King / Priest on the Throne of David in the temple in literal Jerusalem as per Isaiah 2:1-5, Isaiah 6:1-3, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44 and all of Zechariah 14.

Yes, the first application was during this return from Babylon, but many of the details of the seven visions have a greater fulfillment in the time of Christ and in the future.  

Well then, if they have studied Bible prophecy extensively and written about this, then possibly some of the SDA expositors have given a clear and simple exposition of Zechariah 14. What do they write about the feet touching the Mount of Olives and the mortal nations coming up to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles?

Possibly they will have difficulty in Australia, as Sunday is the main day for shopping, football, cricket and surfing. Will shopping and sport be allowed? Zechariah 12:3 seems to indicate that the problem of the status of Jerusalem will be one of the greatest controversies at the end times and Zechariah 14:1-2 appears to be the actions of the nations attempting to solve this problem. This seems to be increasingly the focus of the nations, the status of Jerusalem and the two state solution.

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor: That is not what the Bible said! You my friend sound like the Shepard Rods. I lived in Israel and came across a man who called himself the Branch. His wife and him were both very nice and the gave me Victor Houteff first book. I read and have both of his books. Now you know that the Shepard Rods has had many changes since 1959. David Koresh brought the Shepard Rods to dismay and lives were lost.

Israel during the time of YAHSHUA, took Isa 2:1-5, Micah 4:1-8 and they would not listen. Even his disciples also believe this nonsense and Judas acted upon it. He thought, he was the selected one to assist YAHSHUA to come off the cross and take HIS kingdom here on this wicked earth. The problem with them is the same problem with you. You did not read the entire Chapters. These vision were the plan YAHWEH had for the children of Israel if they were to be obedient to HIS Law.

And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto THE VOICE of YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM. Blessed shalt thou be in the city and blessed shalt thou be in the field.  Deut 28:2, 3 

These blessings continue until Deut 28:14, and this included their enemies just like the vision the prophet told the children of Israel. But the in Deut 28:15 to:

Moreover, all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto THE VOICE of YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM, to keep HIS Commandments and HIS Statutes which HE CONMANDED thee: And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed forever. Because thou servedst not YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; Therefore, shalt thou serve thine enemies which YAHWEH shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. YAHWEH shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; Deut 28:45-49

However, He did not stopped there with the curses at Deut 28:68. Everything that was said in these verses were seen in those vision. But if you continue to read it never happen because they worship false deities of the nations around them and Babylon like Micah said did take them. He also stated that YAHWEH allow a remnant to return but by the time of YAHSHUA they were so corrupted. That when Tyrus surrounded the city, once again they ate their own children which is Deut 28:57.

Now, Isa 6:1-3 does not have any relation to the vision you provided. It relates to Rev 4:6-8. Dan 2:35, 44 Shepard Rods love to use these Texts with their views that the earth will not be destroyed. Why would THE CREATOR need to keep a corrupted earth?

But the day of THE MASTER will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all Holy manner of life and reverence, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of ELOAH, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to HIS promise, look for New heavens and a New earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:10-13 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of ELOAH and of THE MESSIAH and shall reign with HIM a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved City: and fire came down from ELOAH out of Heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 20:5-10 

  And I saw a New heaven and a New earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the Holy City, New Yerushalayim, coming down from ELOAH out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, The Tabernacle of ELOAH is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people, and ELOAH HIMSELF shall be with them, and be their ELOAH. Rev 21:1-3

Finally, Zec 14:4 was giving as the Bible said, “a line upon precept, here a little and there a little.” This is the knowledge of ELOHIIYM. Isa 28:9, 10,13 Here Zechariah could get a glimpse of THE MESSIAH touching the Mount of Olivet the only place on the earth that will not burn by YAHWEH but by THE SON. Once HE plant HIS FEET on the Mountain it will be cleanse and made a plain for the New City from Heaven with the saints in it, to come down and sit there. I live in Jerusalem the city of the Ashkenazi. These people smoke, eat pork break the Sabbath. Oh, yeah they close everything down on their side. But they ride their bikes, swim, and do everything they want to but go to work. Their hatred for the Arabs in the 80’s when I was there is more open now. There are a few people who are colored and I am not talking about the Ethiopians who are called the Fulani. These people are true Middle Easterners and they are very small and few in number and poor. You will not understand Israel unless you live there and not as a tourist. The Orthodox Jews mistreat their wives and they have to walk behind them. They will kill you if you come to the ghetto where they live and break the Sabbath even if you are a Jew. They are very strange. (They are very rich but stingy.) But, they have great celebrations, that I truly enjoyed. I keep the Holy Days of Lev Chapter 23 but not like the Jews and I do not keep the passover but YAHSHUA’S Supper!

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

10 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Trevor: That is not what the Bible said! You my friend sound like the Shepard Rods.

I appreciate your response but cannot accept most of what you have stated. I find your posts too difficult and obscure.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:58 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

I appreciate your response but cannot accept most of what you have stated. I find your posts too difficult and obscure.

Kind regards Trevor

It is obscure, when the truth hurts what you want to believe. You know that your belief is not biblically. Admit who you are we will still love you Trevor.

Blessings to you!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

It is obscure, when the truth hurts what you want to believe. You know that your belief is not biblically.

Firstly I am glad that you did not reply with a full page article. I believe very strongly that Isaiah 2:1-5 is speaking about events soon after the return of Jesus and the Battle of Armageddon. Another perspective on Isaiah 2 that I have alluded to when speaking about Zechariah 14, is that I believe that the earthquake mentioned in Isaiah 2 will be the same earthquake mentioned in Zechariah 14 when Jesus stands upon the Mount of Olives.

Also regarding the concept of dual fulfillment Isaiah 2:1-5 prophesied about the earthquake in Uzziah's time. An interesting background detail is the comparison between Uzziah's military prowess, and his invention of many military weapons with the picture presented in Isaiah 2:1-5. Firstly I believe that Isaiah 2:1-5 had a typical fulfillment when the Assyrian was smitten outside the walls of Jerusalem in the days of Hezekiah. All the armaments could be then used for ploughs, as the surrounding nations began to honour Hezekiah after that deliverance.

Another parallel is that today, similar to Uzziah, Israel is known for their weapons of war, and cunning weapons. In the coming time of Jacob's trouble, these weapons will be be overcome by the King of the North Daniel 11:40-45, but God will intervene through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ who will overcome the latter day Assyrian Micah 5.

Kind regards Trevor    

[stinsonmarri]

21 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

Firstly I am glad that you did not reply with a full page article. I believe very strongly that Isaiah 2:1-5 is speaking about events soon after the return of Jesus and the Battle of Armageddon. Another perspective on Isaiah 2 that I have alluded to when speaking about Zechariah 14, is that I believe that the earthquake mentioned in Isaiah 2 will be the same earthquake mentioned in Zechariah 14 when Jesus stands upon the Mount of Olives.

Also regarding the concept of dual fulfillment Isaiah 2:1-5 prophesied about the earthquake in Uzziah's time. An interesting background detail is the comparison between Uzziah's military prowess, and his invention of many military weapons with the picture presented in Isaiah 2:1-5. Firstly I believe that Isaiah 2:1-5 had a typical fulfillment when the Assyrian was smitten outside the walls of Jerusalem in the days of Hezekiah. All the armaments could be then used for ploughs, as the surrounding nations began to honour Hezekiah after that deliverance.

Another parallel is that today, similar to Uzziah, Israel is known for their weapons of war, and cunning weapons. In the coming time of Jacob's trouble, these weapons will be be overcome by the King of the North Daniel 11:40-45, but God will intervene through His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ who will overcome the latter day Assyrian Micah 5.

Kind regards Trevor    

It's a belief that has fail over and over because I know the Shepard Rods. They had to many problems and they have splinter off too many times. You are the new group and should read about the old groups. Little history is needed.

Blessings

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

17 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

It's a belief that has fail over and over because I know the Shepard Rods. They had to many problems and they have splinter off too many times. You are the new group and should read about the old groups. Little history is needed.

This is the second time that you have mentioned the Shepard Rods, and this seems to be a wrong spelling as there is a group adhering to the Shepherd's Rod. One correspondent stated concerning himself: "I'm a Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist (believer in the Shepherd's Rod)." There is also a historical article on wiki. This is the first time I have heard of this belief, movement or group, and I have no association with this group. I belong to a fellowship that existed in 1847 and partly earlier, and our beliefs have been stabilised from that time. This is before the formation of the present SDA movement in the 1860s or 1870s (??).

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

6 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

This is the second time that you have mentioned the Shepard Rods, and this seems to be a wrong spelling as there is a group adhering to the Shepherd's Rod. One correspondent stated concerning himself: "I'm a Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist (believer in the Shepherd's Rod)." There is also a historical article on wiki. This is the first time I have heard of this belief, movement or group, and I have no association with this group. I belong to a fellowship that existed in 1847 and partly earlier, and our beliefs have been stabilised from that time. This is before the formation of the present SDA movement in the 1860s or 1870s (??).

Kind regards Trevor

You right I spell it wrong but the Davidian are an offshoot of the Shepherd's Rod. Your group did not start in 1847 that is not true.The Branch Davidians was founded in 1955 by Benjamin Roden. I told you in 83, I met another offshoot, and he just call himself the Branch. Houteff and his followers founded the original Davidians. Then  Koresh, with his sexual and military false belief had a fight with the ATF and many left. Quietly, you all mounded a come back going back to Davidians. I may have spell the name wrong, but I know all about you people and your beliefs. I have Houteff books, that why you all got the name Shepherd's Rod from the book. Prove when you started.

Prayer is Needed!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Your group did not start in 1847 that is not true.

I am not a SDA, or a 7th Day Sabbath-keeper as I find my rest 24/7 in Jesus, the true sabbath. I do not particularly advertise my fellowship, but I am a Christadelphian and I suggest 1843-1847 as a reasonable start time as about that time John Thomas confessed the things of the Kingdom and Name and was baptised into the one faith in that time. He had been developing his understanding in a loose fellowship with the Campbellites before that, but had been polarising away from their beliefs and faced opposition from many of them, including Alexander Campbell. Soon after he wrote the book Elpis Israel at the conclusion of his extensive preaching tour of Great Britain. He had his first acceptance in the UK amongst the British Millerites in Nottingham. I have copies of most of his books and all of his magazines from the years 1834-1838, 1845-1848, 1851-1860. I am the librarian at my meeting. He also had contact with William Miller but did not accept Millers' idea of going to heaven and burning the earth as he even titled his book "Elpis Israel", that is The Hope of Israel, advocating on page 444 a clear exposition of the return of the Jews based in part from Ezekiel 38. He also claimed, based upon mainly Ezekiel 38, that the King of the North of Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 would be Russia. His strongest exposition is his five volume exposition of the Book of Revelation, which he called "Eureka". 

Kind regards Trevor

[TrevorL]

Greetings again stinsonmarri (and Rahab who endorsed her erroneous post),

I mentioned Elpis Israel page 444, but I quoted the wrong page. The following is from page 441, clearly anticipating the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, based upon Ezekiel 38:11-13.:

There is, then, a partial and primary restoration of Jews before the manifestation, which is to serve as the nucleus, or basis, of future operations in the restoration of the rest of the tribes after he has appeared in the kingdom. The pre-adventual colonization of Palestine will be on purely political principles; and the Jewish colonists will return in unbelief of the Messiahship of Jesus, and of the truth as it is in him. They will emigrate thither as agriculturists and traders, in the hope of ultimately establishing their commonwealth, but more immediately of getting rich in silver and gold by commerce with India, and in cattle and goods by their industry at home under the efficient protection of the British power. And this their expectation will not be deceived; for, before Gogue invades their country, it is described by the prophet, as “a land of unwalled villages, whose inhabitants are at rest, and dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; and possessed of silver and gold, cattle and goods, dwelling in the midst of the land” Ezekiel 38:11-13.

John Thomas was not inspired, but he understood Ezekiel 38 and other similar passages.

He then anticipates that Britain would become involved in facilitating the return of the Jews to the land of Israel.

Now any person acquainted with the present insecure condition of Palestine under the Ottoman dominion must be satisfied from the testimony, that some other power friendly to Israel must then have become paramount over the land, which is able to guarantee protection to them, and to put the surrounding tribes in fear. This is all that is needed, namely, security for life and property, and Palestine would be as eligible for Jewish emigration as the United States have proved for the Gentiles. But to what part of the world shall we look for a power whose interests will make it willing, as it is able, to plant the ensign of civilization upon the mountains of Israel? The reader will, doubtless, anticipate my reply from what has gone before. I know not whether the men, who at present contrive the foreign policy of Britain, entertain the idea of assuming the sovereignty of the Holy Land, and of promoting its colonization by the Jews; their present intentions, however, are of no importance one way or the other, because they will be compelled, by events soon to happen, to do what, under existing circumstances, heaven and earth combined could not move them to attempt. The present decisions of “statesmen” are destitute of stability. A shooting star in the political firmament is sufficient to disturb all the forces of their system; and to stultify all the theories of their political astronomy. The finger of God has indicated a course to be pursued by Britain which cannot be evaded, and which her counsellors will not only be willing, but eager, to adopt when the crisis comes upon them.

Kind regards Trevor

[Kevin H]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:36 AM, TrevorL said:

The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled

The vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 depicts the aftermath of the Battle of Armageddon, when Jesus will have returned to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, with the Temple built and Jesus will be reigning as King / Priest on the Throne of David in Jerusalem. The significant remnant of the Jews will be converted and the surrounding nations subjected. These nations will come up to Jerusalem to worship and to learn God’s ways.

Isaiah 2:1–5 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Events have been happening slowly, but the pace may quicken up and we need to be prepared for the return of Jesus. The Temple was destroyed in AD 70, and the Jews were taken into captivity and Jerusalem had been trodden down by the Gentiles for most of the last 2000 years Luke 21:24. But there has been a gradual progress towards the fulfilment of Isaiah 2. There have been many contributing factors, and many milestones. Mentioning a few, there was Theodor Herzl and his advocacy of a Jewish State in 1897, the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the gradual return of the Jews to the Holy Land as prophesied, the formation of the State of Israel 1947-1948, the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 in fulfilment of the 2300 years of Daniel 8:13-14. We have yet to determine the outcome of the present troubles, and most probably things will settle down for a while, but possibly it will set up and precipitate the events surrounding the Battle of Armageddon.

Blessed is he that watches and loves the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ who will soon come to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth as prophesied in Isaiah 2:1-5, Revelation 16:15, 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8.

Kind regards Trevor

We need to remember that our last days are not Isaiah's last days. May I recommend the essay "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" in the SDABC vol 4. 

Every generation has a chance to play a major role in the spreading of the gospel with the potential of the last days occurring either in that generation, or only a few generations thereafter. 

The book of Isaiah starts out with an eschatology based on the Hezekiah reformation spreading into the whole world. Hezekiah's illness and healing bringing the representatives from Babylon could have been the start. If Hezekiah shared his wealth with them (His God and the gospel) this could have happened. But instead of sharing his wealth, Hezekiah showed them his stuff. They did not bring the gospel home, but took home the memory of the stuff with the idea that they would eventually come back for it. 

Deuteronomy 4 predicted that the exile could have been the last days. Isaiah 40 starts out with the exactment that (if the Hebrews shared the gospel with their neighbors while in exile) the exile could end in an imminent return from exile in a second great exodus lead by the Messiah. But it goes on to talk about the need for the Hebrews to repent, and closes with how if the gospel did not spread the Hebrews would find themselves back in the land (indicating a lackluster exodus) but that God wanted to do special things for them (such as the very long lifespans) to attract people the way Hezekiah's illness drew Babylon to share the gospel with the world. 

The principles will be reapplied to similar situations over history, but we need to first study how the echelon could occurred in the original context, then apply the principles to later situations.  

[TrevorL]

Greetings Kevin H,

2 hours ago, Kevin H said:

We need to remember that our last days are not Isaiah's last days. May I recommend the essay "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" in the SDABC vol 4. 

I do not have access to the essay, but I believe that the last days mentioned by Isaiah, even if we call them Isaiah's last days, are still in the future and will yet be fulfilled at the return of Jesus. I am not sure if you are saying that Isaiah's "last days" are only relevant to Isaiah's days and if Israel did not fully receive Isaiah's message then the prophecy would be cancelled or superseded to another generation. One of the features of Isaiah's ministry is that he was told that his message would NOT be fully received during his own time by the nation as a whole Isaiah 6:9-10.

2 hours ago, Kevin H said:

Every generation has a chance to play a major role in the spreading of the gospel with the potential of the last days occurring either in that generation, or only a few generations thereafter. 

I believe that God has always set the time when the Kingdom will be established Acts 1:6-7, 17:30-31.

2 hours ago, Kevin H said:

The book of Isaiah starts out with an eschatology based on the Hezekiah reformation spreading into the whole world

Yes, Hezekiah is part of the framework of Isaiah, but this framework or pattern is the basis for the fulfillment in Christ's ministry and second coming. Some of the prophecies are given in the days of Uzziah, Jotham and Ahaz and have relevance to their reigns and to the future regarding Christ, even if Hezekiah became a shadow or pattern of Christ's future role. 

2 hours ago, Kevin H said:

The principles will be reapplied to similar situations over history, but we need to first study how the echelon could occurred in the original context, then apply the principles to later situations.

Yes, I agree with the principle in general, but possibly not how you apply this if you dismiss the detail of the prophecies. I believe that Isaiah 2:1-5 was given during the reign of Uzziah to contrast his obsession with warfare, and some years before the earthquake in his time. This is a pattern for our future days, the last days. Also Micah 4:1-8 quotes Isaiah 2:1-4 during Hezekiah's time with different background and adds details which include the restoration and acceptance of Israel after captivity. Micah's last days are still future also as the return from Babylon did not fulfill all the detail of Micah's prophecy.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/10/2021 at 9:31 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again stinsonmarri,

I am not a SDA, or a 7th Day Sabbath-keeper as I find my rest 24/7 in Jesus, the true sabbath. I do not particularly advertise my fellowship, but I am a Christadelphian and I suggest 1843-1847 as a reasonable start time as about that time John Thomas confessed the things of the Kingdom and Name and was baptised into the one faith in that time. He had been developing his understanding in a loose fellowship with the Campbellites before that, but had been polarising away from their beliefs and faced opposition from many of them, including Alexander Campbell. Soon after he wrote the book Elpis Israel at the conclusion of his extensive preaching tour of Great Britain. He had his first acceptance in the UK amongst the British Millerites in Nottingham. I have copies of most of his books and all of his magazines from the years 1834-1838, 1845-1848, 1851-1860. I am the librarian at my meeting. He also had contact with William Miller but did not accept Millers' idea of going to heaven and burning the earth as he even titled his book "Elpis Israel", that is The Hope of Israel, advocating on page 444 a clear exposition of the return of the Jews based in part from Ezekiel 38. He also claimed, based upon mainly Ezekiel 38, that the King of the North of Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 would be Russia. His strongest exposition is his five volume exposition of the Book of Revelation, which he called "Eureka". 

Kind regards Trevor

Trevor: I never called you an SDA, nor were those who called themselves Davidians/Shepherd's Rods, The Branch Davidians, The Branch, and the offshoot that believes that THE HOLY SPIRIT is a female. You should have become real from the beginning when I called you out! Christadelphians was started by the UK John Thomas who was introduce to William Miller. True, that Alexander Campbell and Thomas here in US took a lot of Millerites from the movement. But this was after the disappointment. They were Adventist but they had no dealing with the Seventh Day Adventist that came from out of the Millerite movement like the Jehovah Witness. Many Adventist in Britain return back to the Adventists belief of that time.

Now, the Millerites all kept Sunday worship, also the Christadelphians. The Christadelphians did say that Saturday is the Sabbath day and not Sunday, they also agree that Sunday is the first day of the week. However, you said this: “I find my rest 24/7 in Jesus, the true sabbath.” Well, that is not what the Bible states. Matter of fact you hardly quote the Bible. Your denomination states: “We call the seventh day of the week Saturday, so Saturday is the Sabbath.” Christadelphian Resource Literature They also make the most absurd statement:

God commanded people to keep the Sabbath in the time of Moses. There was no law about it before this. Christadelphian Resource Literature

Now, they speak about the Sabbath and separate it from the other Commandment claiming it Moses Law. Yet they contradict themselves:

The Sabbath does not start in the early hours of Saturday morning. It starts when the sun goes down on Friday evening, so there is darkness at the beginning of the Sabbath. This follows the pattern set in Genesis chapter 1, where we read that the evening came first:

"... the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:5) Christadelphian Resource Literature

Let’s show the Sabbath in the OT before Moses and the NT. The Bible specifically called the 7^th day a Holy day and repeated what HE said in the Commandment that HE wrote with HIS OWN FINGERS.

And HE gave unto Moses, when HE had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of Testimony, tables of stone, written with THE FINGER of ELOHIYM.

A little above this Text YAHWEH says:

Six days may work be done; but in the Seventh is the Sabbath *A Special Holy Day to YAHWEH: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Ex 31:15 

The word is not rest nor does it mean it here and in Gen. Here the Paleo Canaanite word is Shabbâthôn is a noun, which means A Special Holy Day. Gen 2:2  is shâbath is a verb and it actually means to desist or to stop to celebrate and to prove this:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the cornerstone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of ELOHIYM shouted for joy? Job 38:4-7 

Sounds like a pause or stop for a celebration to me. Now, the other word spoken by THE SON is nûach in Ex 20:11 that is called a primitive root word and the English translated has to be deeply understood of the word “rested,” is used. Rested is an adjective but it comes from the original word rest that is a verb. But originally this verb before the 13^th century meant: "cease from, have intermission" Etymology Online Dictionary I wanted to provide this because SDA have not study like we should, to show ourselves approved unto YAHWEH!

Act 13:44;17:2; 18:4 all mention the disciples and the apostles kept the Sabbath after YAHSHUA return to Heaven. Ex 24:12; 31:18 is when YAHWEH told Moses to come up to receive; “a Law, and Commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” HE then gave it to Moses and called it HIS Testimony. Ex 25:16 speaks when the Testimony was placed inside the Ark. The Mercy Seat was place over the Testimony and YAHWEH told where HE would meet and commune between the two cherubims. Ex 25:21, 22  Deut 9:9 is when the Testimony, Commandments were call the Covenant. Deut 31:24, 26 here it shows clearly that Moses law was written in a book and placed on the side of the Ark. If you believed the Bible you need to believe all the truth which you do not quote Scriptures except partially about your belief that your Jesus will reign on a sinful earth. I know you do not believe in the trinity; neither do I. The Bible shows that THREE DIVINE BEINGS lives in Heaven and YAHSHUA was in the beginning with YAHWEH and HE came down and commune with Abraham, Moses, the 70 elders, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and Joshua. Gen 17:1, Ex 24:1-11 This enough for now.

Blessings Trevor and Happy Sabbath!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

I never called you an SDA, nor were those who called themselves Davidians/Shepherd's Rods,

You insisted that I had some Davidians/Shepherd's Rods connections even after I denied that I had never previously heard of the group. My brief read of wiki and an Adventist website seemed to indicate that they were at least offshoots from the SDAs.

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Now, the Millerites all kept Sunday worship, also the Christadelphians.

No, we do not "KEEP" Sunday. We usually remember the death and resurrection once a week, but some of our travelling Mission people will share during the week, especially if they can only stay in one location for a day or two. Also a Christadelphian in a Muslim country would most probably remember the sacrifice of Jesus on a Friday, and in Israel on Saturday. Our rest in Christ is 24/7 as taught in Matthew 11:25-30, Hebrews 4. We have found rest in Christ.

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Act 13:44;17:2; 18:4 all mention the disciples and the apostles kept the Sabbath after YAHSHUA return to Heaven.

No, Paul preached in the Synagogue on the Sabbath because that is when and where the Jews were assembled. It does not record that he shared the fellowship memorial when he was in the Synagogue in those particular references, and if he tried to do this he would most probably met some strong opposition from the unbelieving Jews, for example in Antioch Acts 13. Also preaching is not resting, but an increase of their labours. If I was invited to speak at the local SDA hall, I would most probably need to go on Saturday. If I was invited to speak at the local Baptist Church I would most probably need to go on Sunday.

Kind regards Trevor 

[stinsonmarri]

9 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

You insisted that I had some Davidians/Shepherd's Rods connections even after I denied that I had never previously heard of the group. My brief read of wiki and an Adventist website seemed to indicate that they were at least offshoots from the SDAs.

No, we do not "KEEP" Sunday. We usually remember the death and resurrection once a week, but some of our travelling Mission people will share during the week, especially if they can only stay in one location for a day or two. Also a Christadelphian in a Muslim country would most probably remember the sacrifice of Jesus on a Friday, and in Israel on Saturday. Our rest in Christ is 24/7 as taught in Matthew 11:25-30, Hebrews 4. We have found rest in Christ.

No, Paul preached in the Synagogue on the Sabbath because that is when and where the Jews were assembled. It does not record that he shared the fellowship memorial when he was in the Synagogue in those particular references, and if he tried to do this he would most probably met some strong opposition from the unbelieving Jews, for example in Antioch Acts 13. Also preaching is not resting, but an increase of their labours. If I was invited to speak at the local SDA hall, I would most probably need to go on Saturday. If I was invited to speak at the local Baptist Church I would most probably need to go on Sunday.

Kind regards Trevor 

“You insisted that I had some Davidians/Shepherd's Rods connections even after I denied that I had never previously heard of the group. My brief read of wiki and an Adventist website seemed to indicate that they were at least offshoots from the SDAs.”

I felt that way because that is what they do is teach the same message you teach. So do the Jehovah Witness. You all varies on other belief except this one.

“No, we do not "KEEP" Sunday. We usually remember the death and resurrection once a week, but some of our travelling Mission people will share during the week, especially if they can only stay in one location for a day or two. Also, a Christadelphian in a Muslim country would most probably remember the sacrifice of Jesus on a Friday, and in Israel on Saturday. Our rest in Christ is 24/7 as taught in Matthew 11:25-30, Hebrews 4. We have found rest in Christ.”

You are not making sense because the word “keep,” also means; “to carry out in practice; look out for, regard, pay attention to." Your church brings up like most who wants to substitute Sunday for the Sabbath, the breaking of bread. What does breaking of bread or eating every Sunday have to do with a day? It doesn’t! People in the ancient met together on specific days because of time and travel. In certain culture they meet like that even now, in what we called third world countries.

Now, tell me how do you find rest in Christ/27, along with the explanation you provided does not make sense as well? YAHSHUA is not a day and the Bible never said to substitute HIS SON  for HIS HOLY DAY. What YAHSHUA Said and it was clear that HE is MASTER of the Sabbath because HE made it Holy when HE created the Worlds. That is why the Bible said in Gen 2:1, 2: that the heavens (universe) and the earth and all the host (all the habitable worlds) of them were now finish or complete. How was this done in six day for each world, that HE created. It was done and on the 7th day HIS work stopped to celebrate on HIS HOLY SABBATH. Heavens worship THE SON and THE FATHER! YAHSHUA said take MY YOKE because it is lite and a yoke does not relate to resting. It means HIS YOKE is easy to bear but still have to work. That means faith without work is dead. Yep, you are resting alright in a grave doing nothing!

For as the New heavens and the New earth, which I will make, shall remain before ME, Saith YAHWEH, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one New moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before ME, saith YAHWEH. Isa 66:22, 23 

Your Church also do not believe that YAHSHUA is not THE CREATOR and not an ELOAH like HIS FATHER. You appeared to make breaking bread a day, but do not read the truth about THE SON. Gen 1:26, John 1:3, 14, Cols1:16, Heb1:1, 2,

Finally, your Church do not stand for anything but fits in where it can fit in from Muslims, Protestants, the Jews who are not IsraEL (they call themselves Israeli), or why not Voodoo, Hindu to be flexible with their religion.

"No, Paul preached in the Synagogue on the Sabbath because that is when and where the Jews were assembled. It does not record that he shared the fellowship memorial when he was in the Synagogue in those particular references, and if he tried to do this he would most probably met some strong opposition from the unbelieving Jews, for example in Antioch Acts 13. Also preaching is not resting, but an increase of their labors. If I was invited to speak at the local SDA hall, I would most probably need to go on Saturday. If I was invited to speak at the local Baptist Church I would most probably need to go on Sunday."

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the *Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Act 13:42 

* This word is truthful, but not understandable by most Denominations. They do not understand this are the Greeks and the Romans. Shem or Ham are called Gentiles and YAHWEH told who the Gentiles are. You as I have said with regret have not read our Paul at all. Paul was sent to preach to the Gentiles. That would be the Corinthians (Greeks), Thessalonians(Greeks) , Ephesians “the Luwians an Aryan tribe), Galatians (the Europeans Celtic), Colossians (the Greeks and the Turks), Romans (the Latins). All were Japheth’s children.

There is a lot of bad information concerning who or what a Gentile is. Most denominations within Christianity teach that a Gentile is anyone who is not a Jew. The Webster dictionary defines Gentile in this way:

A person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith.

Yet, from a Scriptural standpoint is this correct? Who Are The Gentiles According to Scripture? At Genesis 10:1-5, we are told that Gentiles are persons who are descendants of Japheth. http://www.e-prophetic.com/articles/who-are-gentiles/ 

Happy Sabbath Trevor, blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I felt that way because that is what they do is teach the same message you teach. So do the Jehovah Witness. You all varies on other belief except this one.

JWs, SDAs and Christadelphians all share in the belief of 1000 years, but each have a different view of what will happen. JWs and SDAs consider that God will destroy most of the present inhabitants while the current JWs or SDAs will survive. The JWs locate most of them upon the earth during the 1000 years, while the SDAs believe that the SDAs will go to heaven for the 1000 years. Christadelphians believe the faithful will be resurrected and given immortality, and then there will be judgements on the earth, a significant number of the Israelites will be converted, and the nations will be subjected and learning God's ways. These last two categories will be mortal and on the earth for the 1000 years as per Isaiah 2:1-5 and Zechariah 14 and both of these passages disagree with the JW and SDA perspective.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Now, tell me how do you find rest in Christ/27, along with the explanation you provided does not make sense as well?

Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I have quoted all the above because it is linked with Psalm 8, and SDAs do not understand Psalm 8, and I quote Psalm 8 also in the next segment. You practice some sort of rest every seventh day. We have come to Christ and he has given us rest. I could also consider some of the detail of Hebrews 4, but this is not a Sabbath thread.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

You do not read the truth about THE SON. Gen 1:26

I am not interested in turning this thread into a Trinity thread, but I believe that in Genesis 1:26 Yahweh, God the Father is inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man, refer Psalm 8:5 which is a summary of Genesis 1:26-27. Perhaps one reason why I have not previously disclosed that I am a Christadelphian, is that it opens up the possibility that I would need to defend many of our teachings in a thread which is considering another subject. It certainly gives you the opportunity to ignore the subject of the thread, and then post your usual very long posts.

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Finally, your Church do not stand for anything but fits in where it can fit in from Muslims, Protestants, the Jews who are not IsraEL (they call themselves Israeli), or why not Voodoo, Hindu to be flexible with their religion.

This is typical of the nonsense that you promulgate, and yes, I agree it is time to agree with "finally". I am not interested in the rest of your post. This thread is about Isaiah 2:1-5 and similar passages.

Kind regards Trevor 

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/13/2021 at 2:34 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

JWs, SDAs and Christadelphians all share in the belief of 1000 years, but each have a different view of what will happen. JWs and SDAs consider that God will destroy most of the present inhabitants while the current JWs or SDAs will survive. The JWs locate most of them upon the earth during the 1000 years, while the SDAs believe that the SDAs will go to heaven for the 1000 years. Christadelphians believe the faithful will be resurrected and given immortality, and then there will be judgements on the earth, a significant number of the Israelites will be converted, and the nations will be subjected and learning God's ways. These last two categories will be mortal and on the earth for the 1000 years as per Isaiah 2:1-5 and Zechariah 14 and both of these passages disagree with the JW and SDA perspective.

Matthew 11:25–30 (KJV): 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I have quoted all the above because it is linked with Psalm 8, and SDAs do not understand Psalm 8, and I quote Psalm 8 also in the next segment. You practice some sort of rest every seventh day. We have come to Christ and he has given us rest. I could also consider some of the detail of Hebrews 4, but this is not a Sabbath thread.

I am not interested in turning this thread into a Trinity thread, but I believe that in Genesis 1:26 Yahweh, God the Father is inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man, refer Psalm 8:5 which is a summary of Genesis 1:26-27. Perhaps one reason why I have not previously disclosed that I am a Christadelphian, is that it opens up the possibility that I would need to defend many of our teachings in a thread which is considering another subject. It certainly gives you the opportunity to ignore the subject of the thread, and then post your usual very long posts.

This is typical of the nonsense that you promulgate, and yes, I agree it is time to agree with "finally". I am not interested in the rest of your post. This thread is about Isaiah 2:1-5 and similar passages.

Kind regards Trevor 

Trevor, my friend you said; "This is typical of the nonsense that you promulgate, and yes, I agree it is time to agree with "finally". I am not interested in the rest of your post. This thread is about Isaiah 2:1-5 and similar passages." I know that you feel it is nonsense because you claim to believe in the Bible only when it comes to that nonsense you proclaim. You only harp on one thing that has no merit. I gave you Isaiah where he says very clearly that the New heaven and New earth that remain before HIM. You want to call it nonsense and you are not interested in the rest of what I provide because you don't have an answer for it. So, I truly understand your dilemma!

"I am not interested in turning this thread into a Trinity thread, but I believe that in Genesis 1:26 Yahweh, God the Father is inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man, refer Psalm 8:5 which is a summary of Genesis 1:26-27. Perhaps one reason why I have not previously disclosed that I am a Christadelphian, is that it opens up the possibility that I would need to defend many of our teachings in a thread which is considering another subject. It certainly gives you the opportunity to ignore the subject of the thread, and then post your usual very long posts."

Did you read Trevor my comments? I don't think you did. I do not believe in the Trinity at all. It is not Biblical. The word "trinity," is tri (three part of a whole), not THREE!  I believe in THREE SPIRITUAL BEINGS, EGW and the pioneers believed in two. There are those like me in my church who do not accept the trinity at all. The majority do and they say it not like the Catholic. It is because they believe in three persons, which is just like the Greeks. A person is a flesh being, THEY ARE not! 

Where do you find anywhere that angels created anything? Again, that does not make sense. You do not want to defend your teachings but you can put down truth in your threads. That's what people do when they come and comment here. Not being interested is not responding at all! You have! No one is turning it to what you call a trinity tread. You say what you like in this thread about the trinity though! But feel you think you have the right to preach your belief here, interesting!

Your post are long to and I do read them, I don't get upset and act the way you are acting. What I do is provide Scriptures a lot of them.

"This is typical of the nonsense that you promulgate, and yes, I agree it is time to agree with "finally". I am not interested in the rest of your post. This thread is about Isaiah 2:1-5 and similar passages."

Okay so here are some for you: Isaiah 65:17; Jer. 4:23-25; Malachi 4:12; Mat 13:29, 37-43; 2 Thess 1:9; Peter 3: 1-18; Rev 19:11-21; 20:7-10; 21:8

Trevor when you first started, you were different then now. You are not the same. I am sorry that truth hurts, but it does. When you come to make comments, be prepared to give an answer. It's not the length or how long it is, it is can you stand to bear truth and knowledge? This is all in love don't get angry, we all must choose whom we will serve. Remember if you are right then you never changed your attitude. I haven't!

Be bless Trevor your friend always!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I know that you feel it is nonsense because you claim to believe in the Bible only when it comes to that nonsense you proclaim.

You seem to have a unique view of who are Jews and Gentiles and possibly many other unique concepts.

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Where do you find anywhere that angels created anything?

Genesis 1:26-27, Psalm 8:5.

2 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Okay so here are some for you: Isaiah 65:17

This passage teaches that there will be mortal sinners upon the earth during the 1000 years.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:14 AM, TrevorL said:

Possibly you are waiting to be taken to heaven some time after a universal proclamation of a Sunday Law.

There will be no Sunday Law; but there very well could be widespread persecution of Christians in general who refuse to renounce Christ; which will be part of receiving the Mark of the Beast.  It doesn't matter what valid Christian denomination you belong to, if you refuse to publicly renounce Christ and follow the world's political/economic/religious agenda (which I believe will soon be established),you are forever lost.

" During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." (Rev 9.6)

Could the reason that death eludes them be because part of receiving the Mark will be "genetic therapy" to extend life to several hundred years (like the people before the flood).  Between implants to people's brains so they can access the Web with their brains; and robotic implants that will increase a person's strength 10-fold in addition to genetic engineering to create a more perfect human, thereby helping human "evolution", science will "create" a virtually indestructible human chimera (hybrid) that God never intended to exist. God will have to destroy all of them, just like He had to destroy the Nephilim children of the of the sons of God (fallen angels) and daughters of Adam (human women) described in Genesis 6 just prior to the flood.

Scientists have already created human-monkey chimeras  See https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01001-2

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JoeMo, 

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

There will be no Sunday Law; but there very well could be widespread persecution of Christians in general who refuse to renounce Christ; which will be part of receiving the Mark of the Beast.  It doesn't matter what valid Christian denomination you belong to, if you refuse to publicly renounce Christ and follow the world's political/economic/religious agenda (which I believe will soon be established),you are forever lost.

" During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." (Rev 9.6)

I suggest that what you are stating is very speculative. Only in very totalitarian countries could any such persecution occur, while here in Australia the most important activity is sport. Rveleation 9:6 is part of the 5th Trumpet, and I believe in the continuous historical view of the Seals AD 96-312, the Trumpets AD 312-1789 and the Vials AD 1789 until the coming of Christ in the 6th Vial. The Trumpets are complete and we are in the 6th Vial period. The rest of your post is almost bizarre, science fiction. You may get a job writing the script for an episode of Dr Who.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

9 hours ago, TrevorL said:

The rest of your post is almost bizarre, science fiction.

 

Greetings, Trevor,

I agree it's bizarre, but it ain't fiction.  Did you bother to click on the link from Nature magazine? What is your explanation of Genesis 6?  (I'm guessing you think the "sons of God" were the sons of Seth.) If that is so, show me some biblical evidence.  When was the abyss opened in the past to release supernatural locusts that sting like scorpions and looked like horses? The they were indeed the sons of Seth, why were only 8 people saved in the flood?

You evidently limit your Bible study to Ellen White and other SDA sources.  Try expanding your research a little and read/ surf for guys like Josephus, Chuck Missler, Brandon Holthous, LA Marzulli, and Douglas Hamp.  My post agrees with many non-SDA commentators.

Looking at the signs of the times today, I suggest that a National (or worldwide) Sunday Law is quite speculative.  Just cuz EGW says so don't make it a fact. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

You seem to have a unique view of who are Jews and Gentiles and possibly many other unique concepts.

My dear Trevor do you read your Bible? You cannot possibly because this is what Gen 10:5 says:

By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. 

Find a book that Paul wrote to any other Semitic people but his people the Hebrews. It also did not write any book to Ham's children if so, find it!

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

Genesis 1:26-27, Psalm 8:5.

And ELOHIYM Said, Let us make man in our IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  So, ELOHIYM created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, in IN THE IMAGE of ELOHIYM created HE him; male and female created HE them. Gen 1:26, 27  

Where do you see the word angel? What you see is a cover up. The translators want to keep the thought of the trinity a one god with three persons. Which do not make sense. They should have continue ELOHIYM created Adam and that was not the name for just a man, it was for both! Here is the proof:

Male and female created  HE them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen 5:2  Verse one was change from the word Adam to be only man-wrong! They had to fix it and words that were not in the Hebrew. Now, ELOHIYM is plural and they ALL THREE INDIVIDUAL ARE ALMIGHTY; the angels are not! Proof also in the 2nd Verse because THE HOLY SPIRIT assist in Creation. The word of was put in between THE SPIRIT and the word ELOHIYM. Knowing Hebrew that is not correct and does not compute! If THE SPIRIT was told than how come the angels were not?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with honour and majesty. Psa 8:5 

This is when YAHSHUA was giving a flesh body that YAHWEH THE FATHER PREPARED!

Wherefore when HE cometh into the world, HE saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but A BODY hast THOU prepared ME: Heb 10:5

The Adam were made a little lower than the angels. They had power of the entire earth before they sin. Now, that amazing you do not believe that Satan, an angel is a real being that cause other angels to fall. However, you want to put words in a verse that did not say anything about angels creating. Be for real!

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

This passage teaches that there will be mortal sinners upon the earth during the 1000 years.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Isa 65:17  

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

You seem to have a unique view of who are Jews and Gentiles and possibly many other unique concepts.

My dear Trevor, do you read your Bible? You cannot possibly because this is what Gen 10:5 says:

By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; everyone after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. 

Find a book that Paul wrote to any other Semitic people but his people the Hebrews. He also did not write any book to Ham's children if so, find it.

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

Genesis 1:26-27, Psalm 8:5.

And ELOHIYM said, Let us make man in our IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and overall the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  So, ELOHIYM created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, in IN THE IMAGE of ELOHIYM created HE him; male and female created HE them. Gen 1:26, 27  

Where do you see the word angel? What you see is a cover-up. The translators want to keep the thought of the trinity a one god with three persons. Which does not make sense. They should have continue ELOHIYM created Adam and that was not the name for just a man, it was for both! Here is the proof:

Male and female created  HE them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen 5:2  Verse one was changed from the word Adam to be only man-wrong! They had to fix it and words that were not in Hebrew. Now, ELOHIYM is plural and they ALL THREE INDIVIDUAL ARE ALMIGHTY; the angels are not! Proof also in the 2nd Verse because THE HOLY SPIRIT assists in Creation. The word of was put in between THE SPIRIT and the word ELOHIYM. Knowing Hebrew is not correct and does not compute! If THE SPIRIT was told then how come the angels were not?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with honour and majesty. Psa 8:5 

This is when YAHSHUA was giving a flesh body that YAHWEH THE FATHER PREPARED!

Wherefore when HE cometh into the world, HE saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but A BODY hast THOU prepared ME: Heb 10:5

The Adams were made a little lower than the angels. They had power of the entire earth before they sin. Now, that amazing you do not believe that Satan, an angel is a real being that causes other angels to fall. However, you want to put words in a verse that did not say anything about angels creating. Be for real!

On 6/15/2021 at 12:27 AM, TrevorL said:

This passage teaches that there will be mortal sinners upon the earth during the 1000 years.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. Isa 65:17  

Trevor it does not appear that you can read English my friend. Nothing that you indicated is there. Not 1000 years, nor mortal sinners on the earth. The Verses is not teaching, it makes a statement or promises what YAHWEH SAID. HE will create a New heavens and a New Earth. Stop adding and subtracting things please.

Blessing on you Trevor!

PS: Somehow I hit submit before finishing. Ignore the first and here is the completed one. Thank you!