The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JoeMo,

15 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I'm guessing you think the "sons of God" were the sons of Seth.

Yes, descendants of Seth in contrast to the descendants of Cain..

15 hours ago, JoeMo said:

When was the abyss opened in the past to release supernatural locusts

This is symbolic language as is most detail in the Seals, Trumpets and Vials. To use an analogy, it is not wise to discuss Ordinary Differential Equations with someone who has not yet learned Basic Algebra.

15 hours ago, JoeMo said:

You evidently limit your Bible study to Ellen White and other SDA sources.

I am not a SDA. My knowledge of SDA teaching has come from my copy of a few SDA books, participation in the correspondence course The Prophetic Code, discussion on forums and personal contact with a few SDAs.

Kind regards Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri,

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with honour and majesty. Psa 8:5 

Psalm 8:5 uses the framework and language and ideas of Genesis 1:26-27 to speak of the conception / birth of Jesus. Have you considered why the KJV has translated "Elohim" here as "the angels", while many modern translations have rendered this as "God" and does this have any connection with the use of "Elohim" in Genesis chapters 1-3 and elsewhere?

5 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Trevor it does not appear that you can read English my friend. Nothing that you indicated is there. Not 1000 years, nor mortal sinners on the earth.

The mortals and mortal sinners are mentioned in verse 20:

Isaiah 65:20 (KJV):  There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

8 hours ago, TrevorL said:

This is symbolic language as is most detail in the Seals, Trumpets and Vials.

Really? I suggest that calling some scripture "symbolic" is an excuse to interpret it any way that one sees fit.  My rule is that unless a literal reading leads to an obvious absurdity, take it literally.  But that's just me.

8 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Yes, descendants of Seth in contrast to the descendants of Cain.

As I asked in a previous post, please give me some biblical evidence.  My read is that the Hebrew "b'nai a Elohim (sons of God) only relates to creatures created directly by God.  In the NT genealogy of Christ given in both Matthew and Luke, only Adam was called a "son of God".  In the OT only angels were called B'nai a Elohim. The theory that  the "sons of God" are the descendants of Seth was never put forth until Augustine proposed it in the 4th century AD.  Augustine was a Roman Catholic.  Prior to that all Middle Easterners and North Africans believed they were fallen angels; and their prodigy (the giants ot nephilim) were the offspring of the union between fallen angels and human women.  Again, I challenge you to show me even one scripture that ties the "daughters of Adam" to be the exclusive descendants of Seth. If you can show me one or two, I'll shut up about my theory.  Jude 6, 1 Peter 3:19-21, and 2 Peter 2:4-5 strongly support my interpretation.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JoeMo, 

13 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Really? I suggest that calling some scripture "symbolic" is an excuse to interpret it any way that one sees fit.  My rule is that unless a literal reading leads to an obvious absurdity, take it literally.  But that's just me.

Do you have any trouble with the 7 Lampstands as representing the 7 Congregations that the 7 Letters were written to in Revelation 2-3? Even this symbol is explained in Revelation 1. What about the "Hidden Manna". Do you consider this literal? I associate this first with the Manna provided in the Wilderness, and also the fact that the Manna survived for two days to cover the Sabbath, and the portion of the Manna that was placed in the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place. This latter portion is what I would recognise as "The Hidden Manna". Now I mentioned that a major Christadelphian pioneer wrote a 5 volume exposition of the Apocalypse, and he very carefully expounds these almost obvious symbols, but he also with care expounds the symbols given in each Seal, Trumpet and Vial. He relates all of this with the history of the various periods. We may or may not agree with every detail of his exposition, symbols and history, as he was not inspired, but he laid a very strong foundation for our fellowship. After I had considered his exposition over many years, and I am getting towards the end of Volume 4, and agreeing with much of this, it would be almost impossible for me to swallow some of the shallow speculations on this subject. My impression is that the early SDA elders, including EGW, did not give a clear consistent understanding of the Book of Revelation, thus leaving the door wide open for some outrageous exposition.

13 hours ago, JoeMo said:

As I asked in a previous post, please give me some biblical evidence.

As a Christadelphian we have a different world view of the Edenic creation and the Angels. I find your suggestion completely outside my perspective and understanding of Genesis 6 and I am not interested in going down blind alleys.

Kind regards Trevor

[JoeMo]

I now understand where some of your views come from and why you believe them.  they are part of your denominations doctrine/culture.  Even though I disagree with some of what you say, that doesn't mean I don't respect it.  We are all on the path of theoligical discovery.  Speaking for myself, I doubt is I will ever arrive at my destination on this journey before the Second Coming.  I just pray that I am an overcomer (in the Revelation sense of the word) rather than overcome.

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/17/2021 at 1:55 AM, TrevorL said:

Psalm 8:5 uses the framework and language and ideas of Genesis 1:26-27 to speak of the conception / birth of Jesus. Have you considered why the KJV has translated "Elohim" here as "the angels", while many modern translations have rendered this as "God" and does this have any connection with the use of "Elohim" in Genesis chapters 1-3 and elsewhere?

Trevor: Had you read these thing when you accept certain things of the modern translations and not everything. You have look at the source and just their consistency with facts pertaining to the Bible.

Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1Th 5:20, 21

And for this cause ELOHIYM shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:11  

You first have to listen to what is presented to you. You do not despise or don't accept what some is giving to you, just hear them out. Check out what they are saying. It is what you were saying and who I knew that were saying the same thing. That is why I thought you were a Shepherd's Rod. I was wrong on the title but not on the belief. You see what you said was not truth and the Bible said to prove all things. That what the Bereans did with Paul and there is not book or letter to them because they not only search out the truth; they obedy it. Why? Because their study was deep. It was research! Most are acceptable to religions because they sound good and what let them get away with what they want to do and act. They will also believe a lie because they do not want to accept the truth. They dismiss it and like it is a small bug on them, the flick it away. So, they become delusional to believe things that just do not make any sense. I am sorry to say this Trevor that's what you have become, but you can truly open your eyes and seek understanding and gain true knowledge.

 MY people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to ME: seeing thou hast forgotten the Law of thy ELOHIM, I will also forget thy children. Hos 4:6 

You, my friend accept a lie that YAHWEH'S Law, HE wrote with HIS FINGERS and gave it twice to Moses; is the laws Moses wrote himself. The Laws YAHWEH wrote was called the Testimony, the Covenant, Commandments that you think you partially keep. This will be a little long, so it is my hope, with prayer you are able to read it!

So, you will believe modern Bible scholars over the Bible. Who you claim to believe but you really don't. First, Satan is an angel according to the Bible.

See, my fellow friends on this site do not understand the true parallel to the King of Tyre (a Phoenician king), this king was a Black man, a Canaanite. I have told them as I am telling you that ELOHIM came to the Black people before the Hebrews. They do not want to accept it, yet they provide this Text all the time about Lucifer but not about the King of Tyre. This Scripture was a duel prophecy and that is why Paul said do not despise or turn away from the truth. Just listen to the details, the Bible is so simple it is unbelievable! Lucifer and the King of Tyre was both spoken to but at the end Isaiah was mainly focusing on Lucifer in Eze Chapter 28: 1-19

Now, the rest of the Chapter is referring to Canaan's son Sidon/Zidon who are the Phoenician people. Zidon came from Canaan and these are who Isaiah was told to speak to by YAHWEH. You all need to read the rest of the Chapter.  They had turn away from YAHWEH and had lead IsraEL astray as well. They knew truth but closed their eyes and to IsraEL down with them but YAHWEH was giving IsraEL more time but the Canaanites time was up! Gen 15:16-21.

Lucifer, the highest Cherub wanted to be one of THE ELOHIYM'S. He was created by MICHAEL/YAHSHUA, also LIKE ELOHIM THE FATHER. Heb. 1:1-6 Let me make this very clear. Be care of the Greek language and what pieces that were found. Greeks could not comprehend THE SON as HE was called. They used words to compare THE ALMIGHTIES to their false deities who were suppose to be born. This is a lie they never existed and they did not understand and they tried to compare YAHSHUA to Zeus. So have you and this is what he told the Hellenized Hebrews. John 8:23, 24, 58 Again, I tell you Jews or Ashkenazi were not there during the time of YAHSHUA. John 1-3, You also ignore but want to believe a lie that Satan has provided by using the word God! He wants to be an ELOHIYM. Isa 14:12-14 Again, is two individuals that is spoken about. The pride king of Babylon was a descendant of Shem. They had taken Babylon, who have always beling once again,to Black people. From Nimrod a Cushite who ruled the entire world: the children of Japheth, Shem and Ham, before they were scattered and left finishing the city. Gen 11:8 Black people came back, which were the Sumerians. They were the ones who started the writing for all people after the flood. These people also studied the stars; being used by Satan and their city was taken over by the Chaldeans who were related to Abraham. The city had been a prideful city since Nimrod and the Sumerians continue its pride and also the Chaldeans and its pride would make the city fall and it did. The same pride like Lucifer in Heaven!

Blessing and Happy Sabbath Trevor, I will return!

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/17/2021 at 10:39 AM, JoeMo said:

My read is that the Hebrew "b'nai a Elohim (sons of God) only relates to creatures created directly by God.  In the NT genealogy of Christ given in both Matthew and Luke, only Adam was called a "son of God".  In the OT only angels were called B'nai a Elohim. The theory that  the "sons of God" are the descendants of Seth was never put forth until Augustine proposed it in the 4th century AD.  Augustine was a Roman Catholic.  Prior to that all Middle Easterners and North Africans believed they were fallen angels; and their prodigy (the giants ot nephilim) were the offspring of the union between fallen angels and human women.

Joe: My dear friend you are reading outside sources that are not Biblical. The word "b'nai," is not Biblical at all. The Ashkenazi Jews made that word up claiming they are "b'nai b'rith," sons of the Covenant that started in 1843.

Jewish fraternal organization founded in New York City in 1843, Hebrew, literally "Sons of the Covenant," from bene, construct state of banim, plural of ben "son," + brith "covenant." Online Etymology  Dictionary 

Julius Africanus born in 180 AD, became a believer and he was a known Biblical historian who follow the belief that Seth's sons were the one mention in Gen 6:2. Austine did believe the truth as well. Being a Catholic does not mean, that some did not follow some of the principle beliefs of the Bible. The Hebrew word "ben," means: H1121

From H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc. Strong Hebrew Online Dictionary

You, have clearly made it know that you believe that angels are suppose to have  had sex with flesh beings. I have made it known that angels are spirit beings. You find no where that angels reproduce but only in this Chapter. I have told you it's a myth and the word you stated started in 1843 and is not Biblical at all. If that is your choice to believe that angels only in this Chapter had sex with flesh beings so be it; but please provide Scriptural proof of the word "b'nai!" 

Always you friend, Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JoeMo, 

12 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I now understand where some of your views come from and why you believe them.  they are part of your denominations doctrine/culture.

I appreciate your comments. Yes, I have been strongly influenced by those in my environment, starting with our early pioneers. Nevertheless I have considered these fairly carefully and then endorsed these ideas. I am still sometimes fiercely independent on some items and discuss some differences with my brethren, especially on important concepts, and other times hold some differences to myself in recognition that we are all different in some respects and have different perspectives. 

To give a brief perspective on the Seals, starting with a Continuous Historic perspective, after the pattern of Daniel 2, The first four seals speak of the various stages of the decline of the Pagan Roman Empire, starting in AD 96 and ending in AD 312. The symbols used for the horses are almost literal, a time of peace, a time of bloodshed, a time of famine, and a time of widespread death from many causes. Towards the end of there is severe persecution of the faithful and the apostate Christians, and the termination of this period in the sixth Seal is the overthrow of the Pagan Roman Empire by Constantine, the head of the Apostate Church, establishing the Roman Catholic Church. This Church established such doctrines as the Trinity and Heaven going, and they were responsible for persecuting the faithful.

As far as taking things literally, I suggest my understanding of Isaiah 2:1-5 is close to being literal. 

Kind regards Trevor

[Theophilus]

Sorry, but i have to ask. Why in the world would God give angels reproductive , uh, utilities? I am not talking about elimination, because I am certainly not familiar with angel anatomy. However. I cannot fathom angels having seminal fluid. They don't reproduce, and I believe that God only allows genetically reproduction of kind. Angels fallen or no, are not the same kind as man.

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/20/2021 at 10:48 AM, Theophilus said:

Sorry, but i have to ask. Why in the world would God give angels reproductive , uh, utilities? I am not talking about elimination, because I am certainly not familiar with angel anatomy. However. I cannot fathom angels having seminal fluid. They don't reproduce, and I believe that God only allows genetically reproduction of kind. Angels fallen or no, are not the same kind as man.

Theophilus: That was well said. It shows clearly that words were changed in the Bible. The word that supposed to be Hebrew "nephı̂y" the English word is "Nephilim," does not exist in the Paleo Hebrew. It is a made up word.  The actual H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: – giant. from the Hebrew word Naphal, which means to fall upon, meaning they were creatures of violence. There is no plural Hebrew word this was put in.

The point is the angels were kicked out of Heaven before this earth was created. The Bible said in the bottomless pit and there is proof. Luke Chapter 8: YAHSHUA heals the man with the many legions. They asked not to go back into the deep. That word is a coverup for the bottomless pit. Then they ask YAHSHUA could they go into the swines and HE SAID yes. They went into them and killed the swines. Jude also states very clearly that these evil angels left their first estate and are chained until judgement. Yes, some are allowed to come here. Each one of us have one until we died, then they must return back to prison. If you read Rev Chapter 20 Satan will be prison for a thousand years. He is the only one not prison but that where he resides but is allowed to only come to earth. He tried to enter Heaven and it was YAHSHUA who stopped him at the Gate in the Book of Job.

Finally, Sister White in SP Vol. 1, tells you that they were kicked out before the earth was made. She gives you the detail story finishes it up after Creation. I would advise you and everyone else to read it. You will be schock! 

Blessing to you my sister and to all!

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/18/2021 at 12:14 AM, TrevorL said:

Do you have any trouble with the 7 Lampstands as representing the 7 Congregations that the 7 Letters were written to in Revelation 2-3? Even this symbol is explained in Revelation 1. What about the "Hidden Manna". Do you consider this literal? I associate this first with the Manna provided in the Wilderness, and also the fact that the Manna survived for two days to cover the Sabbath, and the portion of the Manna that was placed in the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place. This latter portion is what I would recognise as "The Hidden Manna". Now I mentioned that a major Christadelphian pioneer wrote a 5 volume exposition of the Apocalypse, and he very carefully expounds these almost obvious symbols, but he also with care expounds the symbols given in each Seal, Trumpet and Vial. He relates all of this with the history of the various periods. We may or may not agree with every detail of his exposition, symbols and history, as he was not inspired, but he laid a very strong foundation for our fellowship. After I had considered his exposition over many years, and I am getting towards the end of Volume 4, and agreeing with much of this, it would be almost impossible for me to swallow some of the shallow speculations on this subject. My impression is that the early SDA elders, including EGW, did not give a clear consistent understanding of the Book of Revelation, thus leaving the door wide open for some outrageous exposition.

Trevor, you have the same problem that our denomination has and you need:

I counsel thee to buy of ME gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and White raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.  Rev 3:18

Look the truth is not what you think the 7 assemblies are! They symbolize the same exactly like the symbols of the 7 Lampsticks! THE FATHER, THE SON  and THE HOLY SPIRIT is dealing with the entire world. Seven always has meant perfection or complete. Even the 7 seals starts with the Adams. The two people after they had sinned in the Garden. They had to come to the Gate of the Garden where the two cherubims stood. The Garden stood for the first Temple, why? Because it was made Holy and still was and the Tree of Life was still in the Garden.  Do you even understand the mystery of a Tree that has LIFE!

There Adam the male and now priest had to offer sacrifices just like the Ark of the Covenant/Testimony/Commandments. It has two cherubims bowing over the top and GLORY of YAHWEH is between the two! Adam had to build an altar between the two cherubims at the Gate. The FLAMING SWORD was YAHWEH'S GLORY that symbolized a sword to reminding them of death and losing their once HOLY HOME! (SWORD coming out of THE MOUTH OF YAHSHUA Rev 19:15) 

So, the Adams were Ephesus,they were the first who loved YAHWEH, and Cain claimed to be an ambassador. But, he was not! He did not follow the instruction given to him. He was angry with YAHWEH and took it out on Abel, his brother and killed him.

The first seal states the rider on the White Horse. The Horse was Eden, the rider as one was both Adam's male and female. Gen 2:24 Given to them was a bow to ride and have power over the earth. Gen 1:26

I will just go over the seals and you check the 7 assemblies. Red horse was Cain the rider, first killer and the earth tasted flesh beings' blood and did cry out. Gen 4:6-11  It made the earth sick, you wonder why we have volcanic eruptions around the earth? Wars and so much blood! Because it is sick and the carbon is causing hurricanes, tornadoes, heat, floods and the trash we do and so much more. We eat the animals and Gen 9:3 was only dealing with the clean animals. You killed and eat them we all have to pay for doing this. Now, Noah knew that there were clean animals and unclean and the Bible proves it. Gen 7:2 The animals were not afraid of Noah and he took what YAHWEH instructed. We also eat the unclean that was to keep the earth clean!

Third seal you see the rider is holding a balance, and the horse is black. Right after the flood, a man name Nimrod brought religion this is totally against True Worship. He is the rider on the black horse. They never finished the city and nowhere did YAHWEH struck any temple. Matter of fact the Sumerians returned and finish building the temple and the city. This is after Noah's three sons spoke different languages from each other and had to split up. This was a long period of darkness with each son's descendants taking a part of Nimrod's religion and making their own that was against YAHWEH! Remember they all did some type of sacrifice, now how did they know to do that? Now this seal stretch all the way to the death of YAHSHUA and beyond. This was the time of paganism at it best. YAHSHUA had to come to die because thing on this earth was bad and Israel had fail also. Even so that they killed YAHSHUA and THE FATHER deleted their DNA or seed from this earth. Deut 28:15-68.

The paganism went undercover claiming to be followers of THE MESSIAH. Israel fail and lost EL-THE FATHER and refuse to accept HIS SON and they begin to killed all of the disciple who became the apostles for THE MESSIAH. They formed a new religion called Rabbinic Judaic and the name IsraEL was removed and was kept for the time of the end! The Greeks and Latin came into the assembly and Paul saw that iniquity was already working.  2Th 2:7 Constantine saw a cross that have always been a symbol of paganism in history so read it! He claimed it came from the people who now called themselves Christians. Well here comes those who will be angry at me! The apostles never called themself that name and it was later put in the Bible. It is in the history books, but lately they are trying to cover it up even more! This is how Catholicism began and the rider on the grey horse was the papacy! The earth during the Middle Ages was starting to die. Look and see under the altar the martyr of souls crying out to avenge them for giving up their lives for the truth! Rev 6:9-11 

The 6th seal begins when truth was now back on the scene. This seal, pointed to the east coast, especially the moon turning to blood. This happen and it is written in the history books. The great earthquake was the Lisbon that was when the new world after the Middle Ages and the grey horse. Then there were no more horses, time is coming to an end. Truth is standing up and will be heard and will not stop. The 144,000 will be sealed and save. They will finish and reach the great multitude that will be the last sealed and save from the work of the remnant. Rev Chapter 7; 9:4 The 7 seal is the Time of Trouble for the wicked not the righteous. Read  the  7 Trumpets are  THE WRATH of YAHSHUA! Rev 6:16, 17 and THE WRATH of THE FATHER is Rev 16:1  

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri.

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

Even the 7 seals starts with the Adams. 

I stopped reading half way through your post, as I did not want to waste any more time on your most unusual and most weird, speculative view of the seven seals.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri.

I stopped reading half way through your post, as I did not want to waste any more time on your most unusual and most weird, speculative view of the seven seals.

Kind regards Trevor

Well Trevor you have that right and choice. I have the right to spread the truth and I did. It is funny that you always investigate other things. But that's fine. I also provided a lot of Scriptures and I am not your judge. I am an ambassador for YAHSHUA and I do believe when you seek HIS Kingdom and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you in all truth it is weird to those who have their own belief. I just want you to know, you never supplied the Scriptures to prove all things. What you believe is not weird, it does not make sense according to the Scriptures. You are stuck on a few Scriptures and cannot or refuse not to see the truth about the destruction of this earth. You also do not understand that Seven is a complete number so I suspect what I say would be wierd.

Blessing on You Trevor! 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

9 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I do believe when you seek HIS Kingdom and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you in all truth it is weird to those who have their own belief.

I was a bit worried that I would offend you by using the word "weird", but you managed to tolerate this. I am not sure if your view of the 7 Seals is the standard SDA view, or whether this is your unique view or even shared with a small group. If you are different to the SDAs, then at least either you or the SDAs or both are not being guided by the Holy Spirit.

One of my brethren researched to determine how many commentators and expositors believed the concept that the Seals represent the Gospel era 1st Century for Seal 1, and then successive war / famine /plague events for Seals 2-4, and then Constantine victorious for Seal 6. I am not sure if all of these considered Constantine as a true Christian, or a significant milestone in the development of the Apostate Church. I claim the latter. I should consider that the SDAs who believe in the Trinity would endorse Constantine as he helped to develop and endorse the Trinity. My brother came up with a list of about 40 commentators, many of them Protestants from the Reformation period in the 1500s up until the 1850s.

Kind regards Trevor

[phkrause]

16 hours ago, TrevorL said:

SDAs who believe in the Trinity would endorse Constantine as he helped to develop and endorse the Trinity.

I know of no SDAs who buy that!! or of any that actually believe he was a Christian??

[stinsonmarri]

15 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

I was a bit worried that I would offend you by using the word "weird", but you managed to tolerate this. I am not sure if your view of the 7 Seals is the standard SDA view, or whether this is your unique view or even shared with a small group. If you are different to the SDAs, then at least either you or the SDAs or both are not being guided by the Holy Spirit.

One of my brethren researched to determine how many commentators and expositors believed the concept that the Seals represent the Gospel era 1st Century for Seal 1, and then successive war / famine /plague events for Seals 2-4, and then Constantine victorious for Seal 6. I am not sure if all of these considered Constantine as a true Christian, or a significant milestone in the development of the Apostate Church. I claim the latter. I should consider that the SDAs who believe in the Trinity would endorse Constantine as he helped to develop and endorse the Trinity. My brother came up with a list of about 40 commentators, many of them Protestants from the Reformation period in the 1500s up until the 1850s.

Kind regards Trevor

If you read the beginning Trevor you would have read that I said: "you have the same problem that our denomination has..." I do not go along with all the views of the church. I agree with Sister White, she was a messenger not a prophet. Just like the Bible said: Act 2:16-17 She said this:

How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what
they teach? We should come to the investigation of God’s word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit. We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what God has said. TM p. 105

The Church cannot save me, neither all of their views if they differ from the Bible. I am a Seventh Day Adventist by faith. I believe  the Holy Day of Atonement that they kept was correct. Some of their belief were not correct at that time. Hiram Edson saw why we should keep the Day of Atonement he saw the Judgment in Heaven. He saw THE FATHER sitting on the Throne and THE LAMB-YAHSHUA take the Book which is The Book of Life of the world. This Book was open and the world view that you call weird was shown and everyone that would be saved name was in that Book. YAHSHUA was giving them milk leading them to meat. Sadly, they rejected the 1888 Message. Like the Canaanites, Hebrews, Gentiles and now all the nationalities of Noah they went on the wrong path. They did not believe in the trinity, neither do I but many truth is in this assembly that the pioneer believed so do I.

Trevor I do not go along with commentators unless they speak the truth of the Bible. I accept some of what you commentators said from your Church. They know about the Sabbath very well, but claim it is part of Moses' laws. It is not! It was place inside the Ark of the Covenant/ Commandments/Testimonies. You all just don't want to keep it! It was written by THE FINGER of MICHAEL/YAHSHUA/THE MESSIAH. 

Who you offended is YAHWEH, THE LAMB and THE HOLY SPIRIT. You do not want to keep offending THE HOLY SPIRIT if HE LEAVES you have NO ONE to seal you. Eph 1:13, 4:30 I do not believe in calling anything weird when it comes to the Bible. I will tell you you are wrong. I then provide Scriptures to prove it. You will not truly understand or refuse to accept the truth. People who refuse to accept or hear the truth will say unkind things. I believe we all have a choice that is what Joshua said.

Happy Sabbath and blessings on you Trevor!

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, phkrause said:

I know of no SDAs who buy that!! or of any that actually believe he was a Christian??

Phkrase: You are good and honest person. However, you need to realize that SDA accept the trinity just like the Catholic. You show me the different. Tri means three parts of the whole! How can you divide THEM up like that? Now, the male Adam said the female Adam they are one. The same thing YAHWEH, THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE ONE! You know the Adams were married and have two separate bodies. So are THE FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT (and HE IS not a ghost-we should be ashamed of ourselves). You cannot get three from one it is impossible. THEY ARE THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS, THEY HAVE BODIES but THEY ARE SPIRITS. We do not know what spirit beings are made from and we need to leave it alone. We know angels are also spirit beings and they can do things that we can't. However, the angels are not made like THE ALMIGHTY ONES, we are and that should be enough don't you think? We know that these spirit beings along with YAHSHUA appeared to Abraham and HE along appear to Joshua, Moses, Aaron, Nadad, Abihu, and 70 of the elders. They saw HIM and ate with HIM with a portion of HIS GLORY and did not die. Ex 24:1-11

If you truly study why we accepted the trinity because we were called an occult like the Mormons. You need to read on it don't take my word please and then you will know for yourself.

Happy Sabbath and Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/20/2021 at 6:43 AM, TrevorL said:

To give a brief perspective on the Seals, starting with a Continuous Historic perspective, after the pattern of Daniel 2, The first four seals speak of the various stages of the decline of the Pagan Roman Empire, starting in AD 96 and ending in AD 312

You come up with your concept but only with Dan Chapter 2. Show in Dan Chapter 2 all of this about the Roman Empire because I certainly would like to see it  and the four seals too!

Blessings!

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings phkrause,

2 hours ago, phkrause said:

I know of no SDAs who buy that!! or of any that actually believe he was a Christian??

My understanding of the Nicaen Council is that he agreed with Athanasius against Arius, and was instrumental in the final decision. Later he was baptised by an Arian shortly before his death to wipe away all of his many sins. Many modern SDAs are closer to Trinitarian, but many older are closer to Arian. I attended a SDA seminar where they were teaching the Trinity.

Kind regards Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

9 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

You come up with your concept but only with Dan Chapter 2. Show in Dan Chapter 2 all of this about the Roman Empire because I certainly would like to see it  and the four seals too!

I only used Daniel 2 as an illustration of the concept of the Continuous Historical understanding of some prophecies. The first three metals of the image had been replaced by the Iron, the Roman Empire, and it is some detail about the Roman Empire in the history after John the Apostle that is the subject of the Seals. Please consider the introduction:

Revelation 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Also consider that the Seals could not at first be opened until Jesus prevailed to open them, thus it is not speaking about past history as you suggested, but prophecies of the periods after John.

Kind regards Trevor

[stinsonmarri]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:17 AM, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

I only used Daniel 2 as an illustration of the concept of the Continuous Historical understanding of some prophecies. The first three metals of the image had been replaced by the Iron, the Roman Empire, and it is some detail about the Roman Empire in the history after John the Apostle that is the subject of the Seals. Please consider the introduction:

Revelation 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Also consider that the Seals could not at first be opened until Jesus prevailed to open them, thus it is not speaking about past history as you suggested, but prophecies of the periods after John.

Kind regards Trevor

What does that have to do with Rome, which is not mentioned. I did consider the seal and provided you numerous of Scriptures. Remember you refuse read the rest because it was weird. You words not mine. You Trevor you do not provide Scriptures (notice the s behind the word). You just want people to take your word and again I said it does not make sense. Because in Chapter 2 these are two verse that deals with the iron.

His legs of iron, his feet part of iron, and part of clay. And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. Dan 2:33, 40    

It is understood that the iron is Rome, but nowhere here and in Rev 1:1-3 does it mention Rome at all. Dan Chapter 7 only mention Rome in the teeth of the fourth beast. However my denomination cannot see that the beast is all three animals that Daniel see at first and Rome and in the head of the beast at this period of time (meaning Daniel did not see what John saw. He saw one head, John saw the beast had seven more heads attach to his original head?) What Daniel and John saw, it had to do with the last four religions; they are putting back together Nimrod's world religion that you claim is weird. We will see very soon if it is weird or not. I know this earth is dying you refuse to see it! It is in decay and it will be destroyed it is of no use to THE ALMIGHTY ONES only part spared will be Mt. Olivet when YAHSHUA plants HIS FEET and burn out the sin and make it plan for the New Jerusalem to come down from Heaven. Rev 21:1-3 Again, you refuse to see this as well. 

The Time of Trouble is near, YAHWEH is sending the angel from the east to seal the New IsraEL. This tribe will consist of people from every nation and not just from Shem! That will be the 144,000 and will keep all of ELAH'S Commandment which included the Sabbath. HIS House of Prayer or Assembly will be a House that will be IsraEL as HE stated for all people.

It is my hope and prayer that all who is a part of Adventistan will be a part of the 144,000 who will do what the Bible says:

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.  And one said to THE MAN clothed in Linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard THE MAN  clothed in Linen, which was upon the waters of the river when HE HELD held up HIS RIGHT HAND and HIS LEFT HAND unto Heaven, and sware by HIM that LIVETH FOREVER  that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried, but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.  And from the time that the daily (sacrifice) shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan 12:3-7, 10-12

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the SOVERIGN of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. Rev 11:3-6  

I know this must be weird to you also, so I will not take the time out to explain. Those who are wise will understand.

Blessings!

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Stinsonmarri, 

9 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Dan Chapter 7 only mention Rome in the teeth of the fourth beast.

My impression is that the normal SDA view is that they believe that the fourth metal is Rome and ALSO the fourth beast is Rome. Possibly there may be other SDA speculations, and judging from a few of Greg's magazine articles some speculations are published and tolerated. On the other hand your view may be personal, or a group, or a faction. I suggest that you need to discuss your view on Daniel 7 and settle this idea with the SDAs.

The Apostle John was in exile, and under the authority of the fourth Empire Rome. Thus "to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass" relates to future events from the time of John, and this would be during the ascendancy of Rome, the fourth metal and the fourth beast.

Kind regards Trevor

[timtofly]

 

Isaiah 2:1-5 is a description of the Lord's Day.  The last day of the creation He started 6991 years ago.  Known to most as the Millennial reign in Revelation 20.  This Day is the Holy Day as promised in Daniel 9:24.

 

 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

 

The soon to happen Second Coming will finish the last of the 70th week.  Christ and the angels gathering the final harvest.   All of Adam's flesh and blood, will be harvested one way or the other.  This is the only way to remove sin, and finish the transgression. 

 

The only way for a soul to come out at the end is through this resurrection. 

 

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

 

After this resurrection we see the events of Isaiah 2:1-5.

[TrevorL]

Greetings timtofly

59 minutes ago, timtofly said:

The soon to happen Second Coming will finish the last of the 70th week. 

I consider that the 70 weeks or 490 years was concluded in the first advent and shortly afterwards and is only part of a much longer 2300 days or 2300 years which is ushering in the time of the end and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth at the return of Jesus who will reign upon the Throne of David as King / Priest in the Temple for 1000 years, as depicted in Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44 and Zechariah 14, and many other Scriptures.

Kind regards Trevor. 

[timtofly]

11 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings timtofly

I consider that the 70 weeks or 490 years was concluded in the first advent and shortly afterwards and is only part of a much longer 2300 days or 2300 years which is ushering in the time of the end and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth at the return of Jesus who will reign upon the Throne of David as King / Priest in the Temple for 1000 years, as depicted in Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44 and Zechariah 14, and many other Scriptures.

Kind regards Trevor. 

How do you justify the last 1991 years will be the same as the next 1000?

 

The point of the Millennial reign on David's throne for 1000 years is the promises given in Daniel 9 at the conclusion of the 70 weeks.