CNN's "Racism in America" surprised me.

[bevin]

The USofA currently has 0.7% of its population in jail

90% are male

75% are black, 15% hispanic, 10% white

Tell me something is not wrong with this picture

/Bevin

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/jails.htm

[John317]

Since the Blacks think they should be called African Americans ... the idea has spread. I guess I am required to be called a SWISS/Swedish American. Let it be known though that I prefer to be called American. I think that anything else is racist.

But, like I said ... it has spread. Now the Head of the Humane Society of the US (Pacelle) states that dogs should not be called dogs. He prefers Canine-Americans. GOODNESS. Will it never end?

I've never understood why we are suppose to give Human Rights to Dogs. They are not human. Now we have to call them Americans.

Redwood

I remember when Jesse Jackson made the announcement that blacks should be referred to from now on as African-Americans. I almost never do. The reason is that I think of them as Americans, not Africans. And many have even said they don't like being called Africans. If they went to Africa, like Malcolm X did, they would probably come back with a different view of whites, again like Malcolm did. He was murdered by other Black Muslims because he no longer hated white people after he returned from worshipping along with people of all races, including whites.

If someone told me, "I want to be called an African-American," then that is what I would call him. But I find myself in general agreement with you in what you say here. I am of German and English descent but I am neither German nor English. I am an American.

Perhaps blacks who want to be called African-American do so because they don't feel fully American. They want everyone, including their own hearts, to always remember they are different from the rest of Americans: they are African. I guess that's OK but by doing that they make it harder to assimulate fully into American society, which may be one reason that a fairly large number of them still have not done so. I would like to see all of them completey one with us.

My sister adopted a little black girl, who is now 11. We call her CC. She's completely welcome in our family.

[John317]

Quote:

She may get a shock when she gets to heaven and sees that Jesus is black, and has an afro!

Quote:

I honestly couldn't care less what color of skin he has or what kind of hair-cut...

I was just being silly. It will be incredible to see Him. He will trancend anything that we can ever imagine or project.

Yes, I didn't think you personally thought that way. My remark was meant for people like the lady you were describing. Actually, I believe there will be people in heaven who were "racist" on this earth. I don't think race will necessarily play a part in determining who is among the saved.

I worship the kind of God who is big enough to overlook a lot of faults, including some really bad theology. For instance, most of the Christians there will be people who kept the wrong day. Most will also have had the wrong idea about what happens when you die. There will be slave-owners there. (You remember Philemon, right? Well, he's the one to whom Saint Paul returned his slave, Onesimus, because Paul believed it was the only right thing to do.) Based on my study of these men, I believe Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee will be in heaven and that they will love Martin Luther King. King won't have to fight off any attempts to enslave him. I know some people won't share my view but that is what I believe the Bible teaches. God accepts us where we are, and for many, that is pretty low. That's where he started with me. He's working hard to bring us all up higher and higher but it ain't easy.

[John317]

The USofA currently has 0.7% of its population in jail

90% are male

75% are black, 15% hispanic, 10% white

Tell me something is not wrong with this picture

/Bevin

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/jails.htm

There are lots of reasons for this; that is, for there to be a disproportionate number of blacks in jails, etc. Some of these reasons may come as a shock to people because, while true, they are not politically correct.

1) For one thing, many blacks are brought up to think of being in jail or prison as no big deal. I personally work with some black kids whose uncles or fathers are in prison, and they tell me all the time that it doesn't matter if they end up in prison. They say all their homeys and their family are there anyway. Many of these kids, sadly, have always thought they would end up in prison sooner or later. You can't say that about too many whites.

What can we say about a society where this happens?

2) I believe that many blacks are made frustrated and angry because they are told that they can have anything they want and be anything they want to be. But they are often not taught that they must work hard and be honest and be responsible. When they believe that society has lied to them by giving them high expectations of what they can get in the way of material things-- they try to get these things easily and quickly by stealing and selling drugs. Naturally getting involved in these things gets them killed or put in prison. (Once in prison and in that kind of setting and mind/set, it is very difficult to get out of it; so it becomes a life-style and something they teach others, including their children and relatives.)

3) Among many blacks, being a criminal and going to prison gives one higher status, not lower. They brag about it. Some blacks I know refer to these things as "doing the black thing." By contrast, among most whites it's something to be ashamed of.

I was going to say more but I get tired of talking about it. I just got home from work where I have to deal with these issues every day. Let me outa here.

[Doug]

Originally Posted By: bevin

The USofA currently has 0.7% of its population in jail

90% are male

75% are black, 15% hispanic, 10% white

Tell me something is not wrong with this picture

/Bevin

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/jails.htm

There are lots of reasons for this; that is, for there to be a disproportionate number of blacks in jails, etc. Some of these reasons may come as a shock to people because, while true, they are not politically correct.

1) For one thing, many blacks are brought up to think of being in jail or prison as no big deal. I personally work with some black kids whose uncles or fathers are in prison, and they tell me all the time that it doesn't matter if they end up in prison. They say all their homeys and their family are there anyway. Many of these kids, sadly, have always thought they would end up in prison sooner or later. You can't say that about too many whites.

What can we say about a society where this happens?

2) I believe that many blacks are made frustrated and angry because they are told that they can have anything they want and be anything they want to be. But they are often not taught that they must work hard and be honest and be responsible. When they believe that society has lied to them by giving them high expectations of what they can get in the way of material things-- they try to get these things easily and quickly by stealing and selling drugs. Naturally getting involved in these things gets them killed or put in prison. (Once in prison and in that kind of setting and mind/set, it is very difficult to get out of it; so it becomes a life-style and something they teach others, including their children and relatives.)

3) Among many blacks, being a criminal and going to prison gives one higher status, not lower. They brag about it. Some blacks I know refer to these things as "doing the black thing." By contrast, among most whites it's something to be ashamed of.

I was going to say more but I get tired of talking about it. I just got home from work where I have to deal with these issues every day. Let me outa here.

So who lied to them? Their parents?

[John317]

Quote:

John317 ... I believe that many blacks are made frustrated and angry because they are told that they can have anything they want and be anything they want to be. But they are often not taught that they must work hard and be honest and be responsible. When they believe that society has lied to them by giving them high expectations of what they can get in the way of material things-- they try to get these things easily and quickly by stealing and selling drugs.

Quote:

So who lied to them? Their parents?

Like I say, society. But of course that's all of us, really.

Who lied to them is often an older gang member or adult who they watch making lots of money from selling and they're told that if do the same thing they can have nice clothes, cars, girls, status, respect, etc., everything they dream of having. They don't dream of being of service to society, etc., unless you mean delivering drugs. They dream of being a successful pimp or drug pusher. For lots of these kids, being a thug is the highest thing they aim for. There are tens of thousands of inner city kids like that in all the major cities of America.

Yet, by society, I mean anyone who affects the thinking of a child as it is growing up, and that includes TV, radio, mass communications, advertising, schools, churches, book publishers, Presidents like Clinton, liquer stores, etc. etc. These kids are often getting the wrong messages about life and what they can expect and how to live. They get told over and over again that they can be rich and become anything they want to be; but then they are not given the tools to accomplish these things. In fact, some are told these things even though they don't have the mental capacity and are not provided the education it takes to do them. In other words, they are being set up to fail and to get angry.

I can't tell you how often a kid tells me he doesn't know who his dad is, and often his mom is a prostitute or on drugs, etc. Where I work are many kids who don't leave on Christmas because they have no place they can go to. Often they're told by their family (such as it is) not to come home. Why? Because, for instance, they've raped their mothers and sisters, stolen their mom's jewlery, and destroyed their grandparent's furniture when they got mad about whatever. [These are hard facts but true.] So it would be nice if we could talk about having parents to lie to them, but we aren't even at that point yet, at least as far as a lot of kids are concerned.

A very large percentage of black kids, and even of hispanic kids, are born without a father. American society-- whatever that means-- needs to do something about that, such as inculcating morals and the importance of having a dad in the home and of father's taking a leading role in the family. But then dads often hear that they're not head of the home any more and even that they are not really essential.

Having said all this, I believe everyone is responsible for his actions, even though we can all blame people for doing bad things to us. When we blame others, we aren't learning so much as saying it's other people's fault. Some things are other people's fault, but it does no good to dwell on that because we can't control what other people do. I can only control what I do.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

American society-- whatever that means-- needs to do something about that, such as inculcating morals and the importance of having a dad in the home and of father's taking a leading role in the family.

When I was in college I took a class called Family Life. It was mostly filled with statistics about the results of different decisions we make. The results of having children outside of marriage. The results of divorce. The results of cohabitation. The results of sexual molestation. With a little fine tuning, such a class should be taught at the high school level.

[bevin]

Quote:

Having said all this, I believe everyone is responsible for his actions, even though we can all blame people for doing bad things to us. When we blame others, we aren't learning so much as saying it's other people's fault. Some things are other people's fault, but it does no good to dwell on that because we can't control what other people do. I can only control what I do.

Basically there are segments (not just Black segments) of the USA population which are caught cycles of poverty and ignorance, and the USA is not trying to break those cycles.

Parent's who are themselves uneducated, malnourished, abused, addicts are going to produce similar children unless some outside influence is exerted - and that means more than just funding inadequate schools and jails.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

the USA is not trying to break those cycles.

The USA? Is that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

[Woody]

Yes Shane ... That would be Jesse and Al. You are correct. They don't want Blacks to prosper. They want them to keep their hands out with the palm up. Forearm supination is their favorite anotomical position.

The proof of that is how they hate any black who has succeeded. I will name two as examples ... POWELL and RICE. They are not accepted in the Black community because of their intelligence and success.

[Amelia]

Jesse doesnt want blacks to prosper? Then why did he run for democratic presidential nomination twice? Why would he put himself up there along with Powell and Rice, whom some blacks see as more white than black?

[Dr. Shane]

I like Al Sharpton although I disagree with his priorities. I have no use for Jesse Jackson whatsoever. He claims to be a Christian minister and yet he says Christians should not prostelitize. One of the biggest crisis the black community faces is out-of-wedlock births and he commits adultry on his wife and gets a woman pregnant out of wedlock. Instead of being part of the solution he is part of the problem.

'The other Jesse' blasts Jackson

Quote:

According to the Rev. Jesse Peterson, head of the Los Angeles-based civil rights group BOND, or Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny -- "it is not a big surprise that Jesse Jackson has committed adultery," and that his actions are unfortunately "all too typical" of "black ministers and politicians in the black community."

"The black community will accept and defend Jackson's sexual escapade as they did with Bill Clinton. This is the reason black Americans are suffering today -- not due to racism, but rather because of the lack of character," Peterson said in a blistering statement released by his organization yesterday.

[John317]

Quote:

Having said all this, I believe everyone is responsible for his actions, even though we can all blame people for doing bad things to us. When we blame others, we aren't learning so much as saying it's other people's fault. Some things are other people's fault, but it does no good to dwell on that because we can't control what other people do. I can only control what I do.

Basically there are segments (not just Black segments) of the USA population which are caught cycles of poverty and ignorance, and the USA is not trying to break those cycles.

Parent's who are themselves uneducated, malnourished, abused, addicts are going to produce similar children unless some outside influence is exerted - and that means more than just funding inadequate schools and jails.

I think by USA you probably mean the US government. If you do, I agree. But I don't believe that the solution is throwing money at these problems, although of course it takes money to accomplish the needed programs. I lived through Johnson's War On Poverty and saw what a failure that was, so I don't trust the government to use money to fight poverty.

For whatever reason, the US government has its priorities all messed up. We send billions to people living outside the US while our own people remain for years in desperate need. I know we have to participate in foreign aid but it seems to me we just waste billions and get nothing in return for it. Much of that money should be going to make our own country better. I'm afraid if we keep up some of our policies America will soon be (indeed already is in some places and in some ways) a third world country. In fact, I have no doubt that some powerful people and institutions want it that way.

I'll give you an example of what I think is a huge waste of money. At the place where I work, the counties spend between 6 to 10 thousand on each kid PER MONTH. We have them for up to one year, although some have stayed much longer. We do what we can to help them. They get therapy from a pychologist, they go to high school, and they get people like me. I try to make friends with them and show them that I care, but my job is really to confront them with what they are doing wrong and see to it that they stop it. I write reports that end up with Probation Officers, Therapists, and Judges. Once they leave us they go back to their own neighborhood and their old ways, and there is no follow-up. No one sees to it that the training that went into making changes in their lives is not wasted. So a very high percentage of these kids ultimately go to prison for murder or end up dead themselves on some city street. We often hear a short time after a boy leaves us that he is dead or in prison. Something better must be done but what? And who's going to be willing to pay for it?

[John317]

I like Al Sharpton although I disagree with his priorities. I have no use for Jesse Jackson whatsoever. He claims to be a Christian minister and yet he says Christians should not prostelitize. One of the biggest crisis the black community faces is out-of-wedlock births and he commits adultry on his wife and gets a woman pregnant out of wedlock. Instead of being part of the solution he is part of the problem.

'The other Jesse' blasts Jackson

Yes, sadly, this is very true, but it is controversial and can make some people accuse you of racism. But I am not afraid of that. I see how that is used every day and I refuse to lie about things in order to escape being called any names, even if one of them is "racist." Let anyone follow me around for a week and watch me and listen to me, and I guarantee you that's one name I wouldn't get called.

Several years ago, I worked for about a year with a young black man who was studying theology at a Baptist college in California. He has actually appeared on some TV religious programs in the last year. His father was a well-known pastor in East Texas. We had great talks together about the Bible and about churches. But I was horrified at what he told me about his father and the church he pastored. He told me that at his dad's church, it was common and even expected for the pastor to have something like a harem. He told me of pastors he knew that expected it as one of the privilages of being in their position. However, he said he was going to be different. I think he will be different too because he was such a nice person and he seemed so sincere and wanted to do some good. I pray that he won't change.

Now in all fairness, I must tell you that when I worked at an SDA church in the Bay Area, I knew a youth pastor who was doing the same kinds of things, and this youth pastor was not black. So we should not think that it only happens among blacks, yet it is true that there is a great problem with these kinds of behaviors among blacks because frankly it is largely accepted and very seldom condemned. It should be something people are made ashamed of, but it almost never is. It is too often something that is celebrated. That has to stop. But to do that, people have to be willing to take some real criticism and even anger. I'm ready.

[bevin]

Quote:

No one sees to it that the training that went into making changes in their lives is not wasted. So a very high percentage of these kids ultimately go to prison for murder or end up dead themselves on some city street. We often hear a short time after a boy leaves us that he is dead or in prison. Something better must be done but what? And who's going to be willing to pay for it?

The solution is simple.

The USA spends too much of its welfare dollars on trying to fix the already damaged, and not enough on preventing the damage in the first place.

This is true in health care and in social services and in law.

It is caused by a voter mindset that the politicians exploit rather than fix.

/Bevin

[lazarus]

Wow!

Like I said, why does a dicussion about racism decend into a discussion about the state of black America. I understand why.

Its simply a way to justify your own racism and the racism towards others.

The last several posts have been a litany of racist stereotypes about black people, black teens, black pastors. Shane said racsit would not participate ina discussion like this. This is precisely the type of discussion racists love. It is not about racism it is a subtle justification of the racism that is so engrained in American culture.

Rather than post something that would get me banned, let me share this.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=42

Existing Stereotypes about African-Americans Are Way Off the Mark-and Impede Reconciliation

February 1, 2000

(Ventura, CA) Next time you see an African-American person, tell yourself that what you think you know about them is probably wrong. That advice is based on a new study released by the Barna Research Group of Ventura, California, concerning African-Americans, entitled "African-Americans and Their Faith." The study explores their lifestyles, attitudes, relationships and faith and arrives at some surprising conclusions - including many that nullify the stereotypes held of black people and black churches.

Life Is Good

A common perspective is that blacks are dissatisfied with life and have little to look forward to in the future. The research provides an entirely different portrait of blacks. They emerge as very positive and upbeat. For instance, almost nine out of ten (85%) describe themselves as "happy," three out of four (72%) think of themselves as "successful" and half (50%) say that they are "financially comfortable."

Even young blacks possess a generally upbeat attitude about their life. A survey among African-American teenagers discovered that more than nine out of ten black teens (94%) described themselves as "excited about my future." While they are not naïve about the realities of American culture, relatively few feel burdened by insurmountable racism. Just 9% of black teens say that they feel "oppressed."

The Movement Has Dissipated

Social analysts note that a key to building a movement is for a group to understand how it is being oppressed and to convert its suffering into a compelling cause. Possessing a common experience and perspective was key to the progress achieved by Martin Luther King Jr. and the Civil Rights Movement in the sixties.

The prevailing stereotype is that the black population of our nation has retained its sense of community and common purpose. The research shows, however, that today most blacks do not feel that they are part of a cohesive community, perhaps due to the absence of a sense of urgency and shared perspective. Three out of every four black adults (74%) and almost two-thirds of black teenagers (62%) concur that race relations in America are getting worse rather than better. (Interestingly, whites have the opposite perspective.) But the probability of blacks banding together today to address such issues is limited by the fact that only one out of every three African-American adults (34%) claims that there is a real sense of unity among blacks these days.

Faith, Front and Center

One of the most remarkable findings of the research is the significance of faith in the lives of black Americans. Reliance on the principles of their Christian faith, more than anything else, explains how this segment has been able to maintain a positive outlook on life in the midst of challenging experiences.

For instance, when asked to identify their goals in life, the top-rated goal - listed as "very desirable" by 94% - was to have a close, personal relationship with God. That goal surpassed even such tangible, culturally acceptable desires as having good health and living comfortably.

The depth of faith among blacks was further demonstrated by the conviction, held by 92%, that in times of crisis they are "absolutely certain" that they can count on God to answer their prayers. A similar percentage of black adults also say that their faith is a source of emotional strength.

A majority of African-American adults even go so far as to maintain that the only reason to live is to know, love and serve God. That is a much higher proportion than is found among either whites or Hispanics. Black adults are also substantially more likely than any other ethnic group to believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all that it teaches.

Further, half of all black adults directly attribute their ability to handle prejudice and to endure the injustice that they encounter to their focus on their anticipated life after death, based on their faith in Christ.

There were numerous indicators of the centrality of the Christian church in the lives of black adults. Among the most telling findings was the fact that two-thirds of all African-American adults listed pastors as the most important leaders and primary spokespeople for the black community. Among the black pastors interviewed, the most commonly listed church priority was helping people in crisis. Another dominant role of the church was to bring black people together and connect them around a common purpose.

Differences Placed in Context

The profile of blacks' attitudes and their faith commitment stands in stark contrast to the profile of the Caucasian population of the U.S. "Placing the profile of whites and blacks side by side is like looking at people from different sides of the planet," commented George Barna, the president of the organization that conducted the research. "While whites tend to be self-reliant, blacks are more likely to rely on God. Whites persevere on the basis of their drive to achieve; blacks, on the basis of their faith. Whites turn to business leaders and government officials to represent them in the world; blacks support their religious leaders. These two groups have very divergent strategies for interpreting and dealing with virtually every aspect of life."

Barna also noted that some of the stereotypes of blacks will die hard among whites. "For most whites, the perspectives of black people make no sense. Being happy in spite of a very high proportion of single-parent families, feeling financially comfortable in spite of a substantially lower household incomes, and describing themselves as successful despite being shut out of the highest ranks of government and corporate America makes no sense to the average white person. But what most whites don't comprehend is that African-Americans perceive and approach life on the basis of completely different assumptions. This confusion explains why reconciliation efforts have largely failed in our country. Whites are trying to bring about reconciliation based on a white view of reality and within the context of white lifestyles and goals."

The faith focus of blacks also prompted some unexpected comments from the California-based researcher. "The research findings demonstrate why most of the efforts at developing multi-racial congregations or creating multi-ethnic worship services fall flat. These different population groups have relatively little in common. They may believe in the same Jesus, but the ways in which they express their faith and experience their savior are radically different. Frankly, our interviews suggested that most blacks don't have much interest in being part of a multi-racial worship experience. They don't hate whites and they do not dismiss the white spiritual experience - but neither do they feel any need to appropriate it as their own. Their faith culture is unique and is one life element that blacks are neither willing to alter nor abandon."

Research Methodology

These findings are based on a report about blacks entitled "African-Americans and Their Faith," written by George Barna. The report is based upon a series of surveys conducted with African-American adults, African-American teenagers and the pastors of black churches. In total, the report includes data from interviews with more than 1100 black adults, approximately 400 black teenagers and 400 pastors of black Christian churches across the nation. All of the interviews were based on random sampling techniques and were conducted via telephone.

The survey interviews were conducted from the Barna Research Group telephone interviewing facility in Ventura, California. Households were selected randomly through a random-digit dialing procedure (RDD), and each household contacted was screened for the presence of African-Americans. (Because the surveys among adults and teenagers were conducted separately, only one person was interviewed from any given household.) Geographic quotas were used to ensure accurate regional distribution and minor statistical weighting was employed to ensure that the samples reflected national demographic norms. Multiple callbacks were used to increase the probability of selecting a representative sample of both adults and teenagers.

The Barna Research Group, Ltd. is an independent marketing research company located in Ventura, California. Since 1984 it has been studying cultural trends related to values, beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. This research was jointly funded by The Barna Institute, the Maclellan Foundation and the Barna Research Group. The Barna Institute is a non-profit organization dedicated to studying significant dimensions of America's faith activity. Future data releases regarding trends in people's lifestyles, faith and attitudes may be obtained at no cost by subscribing to The Barna Update, a free bi-weekly e-mailing of new data drawn from Barna Research Group studies. To subscribe, enter your e-mail address in the Barna Update subscription field on the upper left-hand portion of any page of this web site.

[Amelia]

Quote:

Its simply a way to justify your own racism and the racism towards others

Well DUH, Laz.

This right here...

Quote:

The faith focus of blacks also prompted some unexpected comments from the California-based researcher. "The research findings demonstrate why most of the efforts at developing multi-racial congregations or creating multi-ethnic worship services fall flat. These different population groups have relatively little in common. They may believe in the same Jesus, but the ways in which they express their faith and experience their savior are radically different. Frankly, our interviews suggested that most blacks don't have much interest in being part of a multi-racial worship experience. They don't hate whites and they do not dismiss the white spiritual experience - but neither do they feel any need to appropriate it as their own. Their faith culture is unique and is one life element that blacks are neither willing to alter nor abandon."

Is the best answer to the question of why Adventists have black, hispanic, asian and white conferences.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Shane said racsit would not participate ina discussion like this.

Actually Shane was responding to comment by a black preacher that a white person has never admitted to him that the white person was a racist. That should be kept in context.

Quote:

That is becuase a real racist will not discuss racism with black people.

What we see here is the unwillness of blacks in this forum to admit that the black community has some serious problems. The fact that blacks lead other groups in unwed women giving birth is not racist. It is a simple fact that black preachers should be concerned about and working to change. The fact that our nation's prisons are filled with black youth is another fact that black preachers should be concerned about and working to change. The fact that the high school drop-out of blacks is twice as high as whites should be another concern. Another concern of black pastors should be that blacks rely on a disproportionate share of welfare dollars.

The undeniable fact that the black community is in crisis was on display when black politicians and leaders abandoned the poor citizens in New Orleans before Huricane Katrina hit. The idea that the black community is no worse off than the average American community and it is only due to racism that the blacks have a tough time is snake oil that one has to be willfully ignorant to buy.

Now I am part of the hispanic community. We have our own set of problems. Many are the same as the black community has. Hispanic girls are the most likely to drop out of school because the hispanic males don't think of educated girls as being attractive. So being a drop-out actually makes a girl more attractive. Instead of somehow trying to blame this problem on white people, the hispanic community recognizes it and is working to change the male attitudes toward women that encourage the girls to drop out.

If minorites want to participate in an open and healthy discussion with whites about racism they need to drop their defensiveness. Whites can admit to past racism. Whites can even admit to racism that exists in a small degree today but is still cruel and even damaging to the carears of some minorities. However, if the discussion is going to be productive, the minorities have to be honest about the issues their communities struggle with that are unrelated to racism.

Racism doesn't cause black men to be dead-beat dads. Racism didn't cause Jesse Jackson to set such a bad example for other blacks by committing adultry and having a "love" child. Racism doesn't cause blacks to steal from others - often times other blacks. Racism doesn't cause blacks to join street gangs. It doesn't cause blacks to use drugs. It doesn't cause blacks to drop out of school. It doesn't prevent blacks from attending church and giving their lives to Jesus. Racism cannot be the scapegoat for all the problems in the black community. (I am not saying that all blacks do these things, only that these are issues)

I must add that not all blacks are like those in this forum that are unwilling to admit to these problems. I have spoken to many blacks and listened to others on TV and the radio that speak openly about these problems. Bill Cosby is perhaps the most known black that openly speaks about the problems the community faces but he is not alone.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Is the best answer to the question of why Adventists have black, hispanic, asian and white conferences.

Actaully we have black conferences and "all nation" conferences. No white, hispaic or asian conferences. The whites, hispanics and asians are all together and actually have some black churches in them too.

During the time I studied at Andrews, I worshipped with the black congregation. Every time we travel we worship with a black congregation. Unfortunately, we don't have a local black congregation otherwise we would be member there. I much prefer their worship services and completely understand why many blacks are not too interested in multi-racial congregations.

[Doug]

Quote:

Shane said racist would not participate ina discussion like this.

Actually Shane was responding to comment by a black preacher that a white person has never admitted to him that the white person was a racist. That should be kept in context.

Quote:

That is because a real racist will not discuss racism with black people.

What we see here is the unwillingness of blacks in this forum to admit that the black community has some serious problems.

Hey now, I admit it, this is why I usually distance myself from most blacks. I attend a multiracial church also. I usually don'tr say anything because my own people will resort to calling me an Uncle Tom. And I never really have had issues with white people, 99% of those that I have met have treated me well.

[John317]

Wow!

Like I said, why does a dicussion about racism decend into a discussion about the state of black America. I understand why.

Its simply a way to justify your own racism and the racism towards others.

The last several posts have been a litany of racist stereotypes about black people, black teens, black pastors. Shane said racsit would not participate ina discussion like this. This is precisely the type of discussion racists love. It is not about racism it is a subtle justification of the racism that is so engrained in American culture.

Would you admit that in any discussion of race relations, it is necessary to discuss, among other apropos conditions, the "state of black America"?

I think it's time to stop thinking of, and calling, people "racist" because they say things someone doesn't want to hear. As long as that is done, there can't be the kinds of discussions that are needed. We have to realize that as long as either side of the dialogue is calling people names and thinking of the other as "racist" because of something they say, the discussion can't go forward successfully. Both sides have to sit back and listen to what the other is saying. Both sides have important things to say and are worthy of being heard.

When it comes to "stereotypes," the reason they are called by that term is that there is usually a lot of truth to them. The problem comes when anyone thinks that there is no reality outside of them or that they are representative of everyone in a certain catagory.

But I don't think anyone is saying the descriptions on this board are an exhaustive view of the current social/racial situation. Yet they are things that are important and that need to be said because they add to the picture of life that Americans experiece in their race relations. It's important that each side of that discussion not reject the other's experience as inconsequential. That is what happens when a label such as "racist" is applied to it.

[Doug]

I think it will always revert to "problems with the black community" because nobody is doing anything about it, it keeps being swept under the rug.

[John317]

Wow!

Like I said, why does a dicussion about racism decend into a discussion about the state of black America. I understand why.

Its simply a way to justify your own racism and the racism towards others.

The last several posts have been a litany of racist stereotypes about black people, black teens, black pastors. Shane said racsit would not participate ina discussion like this. This is precisely the type of discussion racists love. It is not about racism it is a subtle justification of the racism that is so engrained in American culture.

Rather than post something that would get me banned, let me share this.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=42

I'd like to hear what you have to say that you think might get you banned. I really doubt it would get you banned. I don't think it could be that bad. I am for total honesty in this forum and I can promise you that I will love you as a Christian SDA brother no matter what you say about race relations. I really mean that, Lazarus.

I am reading everything you say on these posts and am giving everything serious attention and consideration.

I don't have any trouble condemning things that white people do that I believe are wrong. It just seems to me that black people have a hard time bringing themselves to do the same thing, and I have to admit, that kind of bothers me. Because with me, it's not a race issue-- I mean saying people are wrong to do things-- yet with blacks it seems to be an issue of race, whether they will come out in public and say certain kinds of behaviors, etc., are wrong. I actually understand this, but I wish someone would explain it to me so that I can see if my view is correct. Or am I completely crazy and saying something totally off the wall that has no basis in reality?

[lazarus]

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What we see here is the unwillness of blacks in this forum to admit that the black community has some serious problems.

Blacks on this forum. How many black people are on this forum. I really don't know. Do the 2/3 black people who have posted on this thread represent the blacks on this forum? If there are only 2/3 black people on this forum then it may say something!

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT RACISM.

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It is a simple fact that black preachers should be concerned about and working to change. The fact that our nation's prisons are filled with black youth is another fact that black preachers should be concerned about and working to change. The fact that the high school drop-out of blacks is twice as high as whites should be another concern. Another concern of black pastors should be that blacks rely on a disproportionate share of welfare dollars.

As someone who as a black preacher, tell me something I do not know! You talk as if black preachers don't care about these issues and don't do anything about these issues.

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The idea that the black community is no worse off than the average American community and it is only due to racism that the blacks have a tough time is snake oil that one has to be willfully ignorant to buy.

No one has ever posted that here are far as I can see. I cannot remember any black preacher/leader saying that. Can you provide a quote to support such an insulting and ridiculous assertion.

Now I am part of the hispanic community. We have our own set of problems. Many are the same as the black community has. Hispanic girls are the most likely to drop out of school because the hispanic males don't think of educated girls as being attractive. So being a drop-out actually makes a girl more attractive. Instead of somehow trying to blame this problem on white people, the hispanic community recognizes it and is working to change the male attitudes toward women that encourage the girls to drop out.

How about the majority being honest about their issues. How about taking the beam out before you seek to extract the splinter!

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I must add that not all blacks are like those in this forum that are unwilling to admit to these problems.

What do you know about the black people on this forum other than what your prejudices drive you post? Only yesterday in my end of year sermon I enouraged my members mostly black, to buy books for their kids, read, turn off the TV etc.) I understand the issues that face my people more than you will ever know.

What evdience do you for the rediculous thing that you continue to post about black people on this forum?

Hey lets have a thread, whats wrong witth black community!

[John317]

I think it will always revert to "problems with the black community" because nobody is doing anything about it, it keeps being swept under the rug.

Bill Cosby has tried but it just about got him crucified. I admired his honesty in saying some of those things. There have been others but a lot of times those people are described as Uncle Toms and as not really black.

I freely admit that there are problems in the white community but they are not usually problems confined to, or primarily occuring among, the whites. They are problems that are spread among all the various races. But I would be among the first to condemn any of those problems that do exist among us, whether they occur elsewhere or not. For example, I condemn all illicit drug use, all sexual immorality, all lyrics that encourages or celebrates sin, all leaders and others who practice sexual behaviors which the Bible says are wrong, all prejudice that causes people to mistreat others, etc. I also condemn all bad language, such as the use of "ho", "niggah," "[theN-word]," whether it comes from blacks or whites or members of other race. I also condemn any kind of prejudice based on race, whether that be the payment of money to one race by another or the decision to pay for a member of one race to go to college and not another. I favor what Martin Luther said: we should base our judgment of people not on the color of their skin but on the content of their characters.

I am proud to be white and to have descended from European peoples. That is one reason I don't favor allowing white kids to get away with crime, etc. I want to see my white race prosper and progress, and they can't do that as long as it's doing things or thinking in ways that destroy it or are self-defeating. But I want to see blacks prosper and progress too, and I think blacks have a perfect right to feel good about their ancestory as well. At my work, I encourage black kids not only to read about their own but about whites and other races as well. But very few like to read. We're trying to organize a library for them now and I will try to help them experience the marvellous beauty of books.