there buster Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Quote: "Children want real people who stand for the truth at any cost and to their own hurt. Not the flakes that are floating around today." "The land is filled with weakness and selfpity; blind, stupid fools are the majority of the people in North America and sad to say our church is not far behind." I do recall this pair of statements. This was a veiled attack. Instead of saying "you are a flake," or "you are a blind, stupid fool" the poster opted for a general statement that allowed him/her to vent his/her spleen. This is a case-- as most are-- where context determines the import. In context, it was clearly uncivil, and should have been noted as such-- sort of the equivalent of 'the yellow card' they give in soccer-- cautioning the poster to modify the post. Doing it publicly would have had enough sting to give the poster second thoughts, and increased the safety level for those whom the poster targeted. My reaction at the time was that I agreed with the first statement: "Children want real people who stand for the truth at any cost and to their own hurt" and I thought "even at the cost of a tongue-lashing by a self-righteous jerk." (Perhaps there is at least one more "blind, stupid fool" in the church than the poster realized. However true it might have been, it would have been uncivil, so I decided, unlike the poster, to simply leave the field. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
Lil Star Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 This is exactly why I do not post much on here any longer. When someone gets hurt by a posters attack or pecking and pecking; all seem to forget what they have said or they say something like "h/she didn't mean it that way, you took it wrong, h/she must have had a bad day, among other ways it has been said. All in all no one "forgets" what they say. On the internet people say what they mean. Some, like me believe others. I do not believe anymore. The longer I read posts I find out what the "true christian" is all about. Thanks to all who have made this board such a lively board with all sorts of people who can peck and peck their way into the hearts of all proclaimed christians! :( Quote
Stan Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 This is not directed at the person who did the last post. Reread as needed. AS pointed out to me, the ones who are so against the personal attacks, are too often those who dish it out best... Physician, heal thyself.. Stan - Duck for cover :) Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Stan Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I am not sure about the others, but in response to some previous comments, this admin, is tired of addressing issues, then getting hit with 'BUT MOM, HE SAID IT FIRST' comments... Have tried things private, some public, some... well just left them alone... ALL in ALL there are some great folks here. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Guest Male Man Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Quote: Moses,Paul,Peter, Martin Luther etc would not have long been tolerated in our churches today. Yep, or EGW. Quote: All you are advocating is gathering certain men together, specifically men, who think like...well, what YOU call "men". Like the working class, truckers, the ones who love country music, the farmers, and thier ranch hands...construction workers, framers, small business laborors...ect. Yeah, well they are the ones missing from church are they not? Among this class are qualities the church needs - fearlessness and not caring for one's reputation above doing what is right. Quote: What kind of "take the wheel" attitude are you talking about? What are your standards for men to uphold and 'stand up 'to? Not letting fear of opinion dominate our thinking so much. Risk, danger radical manouvers and revolutionary thinking needs to be encouraged in our "wet paper bag" church culture. Quote: A couple of questions-1]Who says this doesn't happen here? 2]When those guys come out of the Cell, are they amicable toward each other? Are they friendly outside of the Cell toward each other? Does it happen 100% of the time? I dont see a thread dedicated for this thing? Yeah, they get it out of their system and move on. The point of the Cell is to have a little room for cordiality in public - keeps the dirty stuff offline. Quote: Your 'general statements' attacked every males 'maleness'in the church... No. I attacked a disease to please. I never named any males. My whole point is there is little maleness in a typicall SDA male. Quote: I think we went through this with a certain poster on the topic of Women Pastors. HE thought HE had all the answers. But HE would not share them with us. All HE did was to condemn the thoughts that the rest of us had. Is MM a clone? No. I don't think I have all the answers but I do believe in what I am saying on this topic. I will spar a little and if you get personal so will I. Quote: So, if one does not agree with the poster's position, it's because their Christian experience is deficient. They haven't prayed to God-- and therefore reached the poster's understanding--and they don't have peace. . . with the poster's position If one does not agree with the posters position then thats all it is - a disagreement. We should not become personal and get our knickers in a knot over it. Quote: How can we best continue to point out problem posts without condemning the author? I am serious on this. I do not want to condemn the author ... but I do want to learn. We should never condemn an author whether naming them or not. We can condemn a thought ot a culture but when we name and direct those comments to the individual, this I believe becomes a personal attack. Quote: Maybe that is what Ichabod is getting at in stopping attacks of all kinds. You use strong language. Disagreement is not an attack. Having a gripe about the way things are at church is not an attack. Fighting someone with the same ammo they use online is not an attack but a defense - albeit personal attacks should not be allowed. Quote: Sometimes they are so nice that most see the other guy as the problemI don't think it helps either that they always seem to have so many convinced of what a great guy he is Exactly. There are many that try to do this down at church. They are so obsessed with showing their religiosity/holiness that they forget that Jesus actually said we will have enemies. Quote: I would just suggest that forum boundaries restrain such things as personal attacks, and encourage people to stay on issue, and be pleasant. Don't see why it couldn't be done. Right on. Quote: Perhaps this is something that should go to the men's forum and be discussed.... Still dont know where this is? Quote: I think attacking the church that I love just once is once too many. Particularly when one is attacking the "people" in the church. So all the prophets/preachers and church men including EGW throughout history were wrong? Quote
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 ... addressing issues, then getting hit with 'BUT MOM, HE SAID IT FIRST' comments... Sorta reminds you of when your children were little kids, right? :) Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 I don't think people are stupid. In general they will be able to judge pretty accurately someone's character by his/her words (which are the only 'actions' available in this medium). Quote Truth is important
David Koot Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 AS pointed out to me, the ones who are so against the personal attacks, are too often those who dish it out best... Physician, heal thyself.. I have been gone all day, just took at look at this thread again a few minutes ago. Without checking to see what the specifics Stan is referring to, I will say something generally, in regard to how I handle such things. I am one who has spoken out against personal attacks. They detract from a discussion forum, and are out of place. I have at times commented when they are made against someone else. I more frequently respond when they have been made against me. I am not aware of a single occurrence when I have INITIATED a personal attack. This thread is no exception. I will, however, for good reasons, respond when personal attacks are made. I cannot speak for others, as that is up to them. Dave Quote
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen ... addressing issues, then getting hit with 'BUT MOM, HE SAID IT FIRST' comments... Sorta reminds you of when your children were little kids, right? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
David Koot Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 In saying something is 'satanic' while at the same time talking about the person equates the 'two'. If one wishes to separate the 'actions' from the 'person', then state it in such a way as to make it apparent. Quote
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 This is exactly why I do not post much on here any longer. ...[snip].... The longer I read posts I find out what the "true christian" is all about. Thanks to all who have made this board such a lively board with all sorts of people who can peck and peck their way into the hearts of all proclaimed christians! Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Amelia Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 *tacking on Having this very same topic posted many times over the years, without much more outcome than this one has accomplished; I ask all of you why should it stay open? Has anyone gained insight from the words posted? Has anyone gained peace from the words posted? Has any love been shown or given? Does anyone care? Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 Quite the reverse - it's making me despair. Quote Truth is important
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 *tacking on Having this very same topic posted many times over the years, without much more outcome than this one has accomplished; I ask all of you why should it stay open? Has anyone gained insight from the words posted? Has anyone gained peace from the words posted? Has any love been shown or given? Does anyone care? [tic] Wait! Wait!! Wait!!! Let me get one last word in, before the other guy and then you can close it down!.....[/TIC] Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
David Koot Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 1) It sure looks like Dave has a personal experience in mind. Perhaps he does not, but it looks like he does. Quote
David Koot Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Wait! Wait!! Wait!!! Let me get one last word in, before the other guy and then you can close it down!.....[/TIC] Oh, Neil, you and your last word! (Silent, this time, I see. TIC. Good learning here!) Quote
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Originally Posted By: Neil D Wait! Wait!! Wait!!! Let me get one last word in, before the other guy and then you can close it down!.....[/TIC] Oh, Neil, you and your last word! (Silent, this time, I see. TIC. Good learning here!) Isn't it the truth? You [and I am speaking generic-ly here] gotta have that last word to shut the opposing person up....but when they continually move slightly off the arguement or have a rebuttal or make it personal...well, golly gee willicures...you just gotta have the last word.... May I suggest that this 'having the last word' is an indication that it is not the opposing guy that has a problem....rather it is you [generic] yourself that has the problem...afterall is said and done here, it is about you and you alone...not the stubborness of the other guy, not his "pecking, and pecking", it is not about the other guy at all...It is about me, and if you were writing this post, it would be about you.... I mean, come on, guys and gals...You ain't the Holy Spirit...you can't convict of the wrongness of the situation, you cant convince the other guy of the wrongness of his position...You can't MAKE him write the words that you want to hear...YOU AREN"T GOD NOR DO YOU HAVE HIS POWERS. So, it's about what you do, your feelings and how you deal with them...it's about you...and when you post, we [collectively] see what YOUR problem is better than you do....You are naked out here when you post. So, what are you gonna do? Well, there is forgiving...you can forgive yourself...and the other guy...and you can pray...And sometimes that is sooo hard...I know...been there done that a million times a week... But it can be done....And we [collectively] need to do that....ourselves.... Now, I have banntered with David, and given some good advice for all....and left this post on a positive note...It would seem to me, that if the Administration is thinking about closing this thread, that it do so now, on a positive note.... Just my opionion......misspelt Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
David Koot Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 In saying something is 'satanic' while at the same time talking about the person equates the 'two'. If one wishes to separate the 'actions' from the 'person', then state it in such a way as to make it apparent. Upon further reflection, I think some clarification of my previous response to your post here is needed. When a person engages in actions which are wrong, which are evil and destructive, s/he is doing so under the influence of satan. This does not mean that the entire person, always, is 'satanic,' however, to the extent s/he has responded to satan's influence or temptations by committing the actions, as Jesus referred to in John ch. 8, s/he certainly is acting under the influence of satan, rather than that of God. Ties in with the 'fruits of the Spirit' or of the other spirit. Dave Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 Here's my simplistic take on the matter: Ignore Ignore Ignore Bravus made this suggestion in another thread somewhere. I gave it a try. It worked. I've done the M18 with some folk and it doesn't work so I just ignore them. Most people respond well to reasonable approaches for dialog and understanding. There a few who don't. This is how real life is. This board is a reflection of real life. Most of you didn't pick up the personal attack on me in Neil's last post Quote: Just my opionion......misspelt It was his subtle but ineffectual attempt to attack my spelling abilities but I just have to ignore him! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Quote: Most of you didn't pick up the personal attack on me in Neil's last post Quote: Just my opionion......misspelt It was his subtle but ineffectual attempt to attack my spelling abilities but I just have to ignore him! Zing! Lazarus 1 Neil zip Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 Quote: Lazuras I'm still ignoring you Niel. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Neil D Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Quote: Lazuras I'm still ignoring you Niel. And I have NO idea what you are talking about..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Stan Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 NO!! It was my spelling he was making fun of.. :) Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 just being sillly Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators lazarus Posted January 22, 2008 Moderators Posted January 22, 2008 NO!! It was my spelling he was making fun of.. Stan why are you trying to minimize my spelling issues and hijack this thread??? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
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