'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day

[Robert]

-PC- ST

-PT- The Signs of the Times

-DT- 02-26-85

-AT- Sanctification--The True and the False

-PR- 10

"No one who claims holiness is really holy."

Now wait a minute...how many times have I heard SDA make the claim that not only do they keep the commandments, but they keep all ten? Going by EGW's remark I must conclude that they aren't holy, but rather self-righteous.

"Those who are registered as holy in the books of Heaven are not aware of the fact, and are the last ones to boast of their own goodness. None of the prophets and apostles ever professed holiness, not even Daniel, Paul, or John. The righteous [the just] never make such a claim. The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to him; for their consciences are sensitive, and they regard sin more as God regards it."

Did you get that? "The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to Him ...."

Ultimately, that's why Paul states that the best of Christians "fall short of the glory of God" and that "there's none righteous, no, not even one." And Ellen White adds, "He who says, 'I am holy, I am sinless,' is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, 'I am Christ.' To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves..."

Now how do the self-righteous come to the point of admitting this truth? Well, how did God bring Saul around to becoming Paul the great champion of justification by faith? Answer: The law - the terms of the Old Covenant.

[Robert]

-PC- ST

-PT- The Signs of the Times

-DT- 02-26-85

-AT- Sanctification--The True and the False

-PR- 10

"No one who claims holiness is really holy."

Now wait a minute...how many times have I heard SDA make the claim that not only do they keep the commandments, but they keep all ten? Going by EGW's remark I must conclude that they aren't holy, but rather self-righteous.

"Those who are registered as holy in the books of Heaven are not aware of the fact, and are the last ones to boast of their own goodness. None of the prophets and apostles ever professed holiness, not even Daniel, Paul, or John. The righteous [the just] never make such a claim. The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to him; for their consciences are sensitive, and they regard sin more as God regards it."

Did you get that? "The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to Him ...."

Ultimately, that's why Paul states that the best of Christians "fall short of the glory of God" and that "there's none righteous, no, not even one." And Ellen White adds, "He who says, 'I am holy, I am sinless,' is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, 'I am Christ.' To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves..."

Now how do the self-righteous come to the point of admitting this truth? Well, how did God bring Saul around to becoming Paul the great champion of justification by faith? Answer: The law - the terms of the Old Covenant.

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

[Gerr]

Quote:

If you think that your performance to the law is what gets you into heaven Paul has bad news for you!

And if you think you can make it to heaven by breaking the law, Paul has bad new for you too!!!

[color:red]"...those who practice such things [adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like] WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." Gal 5:21, 19.

If you think that you can make it to heaven while disregarding His commandments, Jesus also has bad new for you!!!

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!" Mt 7:21-23 NKJ

Quote:

If you are to make it into heaven based on works then you must keep all the rules - everyone of them and you must do it perfectly and with the right motive. You must live to serve - that is, you must deny self. Otherwise you've had it....To be cursed means no resurrection for you. You must take "the curse of the law" - the 2nd death.

You turn ALL obedience into legalism!!! Every single time you do something for your wife or children, do you do it to get brownie points?

[color:red]"If you LOVE me, keep My commandments." "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your GOOD WORKS and GLORIFY YOUR FATHER in heaven." Jesus

Gerry

[Gerr]

Quote:

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

She also says:[color:red]"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus ACCEPTS this disposition and effort as MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him and yet are disloyal to His Father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easygoing, accommodating, crossless religion." 1 SM 382.

Gerry

[Robert]

Quote:

If you think that your performance to the law is what gets you into heaven Paul has bad news for you!

And if you think you can make it to heaven by breaking the law, Paul has bad new for you too!!!

Gerry, apparently the law hasn't accomplished what God originally set out for it to do in your life. Do you know what that is? To shut your mouth...to humble you so that you no longer have any confidence in your law performance.

You see the Old Covenant was essential. It was essential because for four hundred years the Jews were in Egypt and the Egyptian religion taught that man is able to save himself. The Old Covenant was given to them for that purpose.

Now didn't God know that the Jews couldn't keep the terms of the OC? Yes! Did the Jews know? What did they say? "All the Lord has said we will do." Did they have confidence in their abilities to keep the terms of the covenant? Absolutely, or else they wouldn't have said we can do it. Then why did God give the Jews the terms of the Old Covenant since He knew they couldn't do it?

Answer: Because they didn't know! They were self-deceived - they were self-righteous - they were blind!

That's why EGW makes those OC statements to SDA. She is being used of God (I believe) to breakdown the legalists within the church. God must rid the church of legalism. How does He do this? By making it impossible for legalists. When you realize how selfish you are...when you realize the marked difference between your self-love and Christ's agape love, then you will be prepared to be clothed with the garments of Christ's imputed righteousness. Then, and only then, will you be able to genuinely experience Christ's imparted righteousness. Until then you remain under the curse!

[Robert]

Quote:

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

She also says: "When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus ACCEPTS this disposition and effort as MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT.

Gerry

Which is it Gerry? "Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience]" or partially your performance and partially Christ's?

Answer: Neither!

You blind man!!! You are not saved partially by your performance and partially by Christ's. This is subtle legalism. Besides, the law doesn't accept partial obedience.

The law must be answered and its requirements are just. You are either righteous "in Christ" or you are righteous in yourself. No in betweens. No I must do my best and God will make up the rest. Do you know why? Because your motive will be centered in "self". You'll never have the assurance of salvation because you'll never know if you did your best.

Rob

[Robert]

Quote:

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

She also says:"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus ACCEPTS this disposition and effort as MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT.

You see folks, Gerry really doesn't keep the law, but he wants the credit - the glory. And so he waters the law down to rules he can keep and exclaims that Christ will make up the difference - i.e., cover his sinful behavior. He reminds me of the Pharisees of old:

"They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders [they make it hard for you], but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them [they don't even try]. Everything they do is to be seen of men."

Gerry, I teach grace. The only reason I give you law is to open your eyes just as God did with the Jews.

[Robert]

That's why EGW makes those OC statements to SDA. She is being used of God (I believe) to breakdown the legalists within the church. God must rid the church of legalism. How does He do this? By making it impossible for legalists. When you realize how selfish you are...when you realize the marked difference between your self-love and Christ's agape love, then you will be prepared to be clothed with the garments of Christ's imputed righteousness. Then, and only then, will you be able to genuinely experience Christ's imparted righteousness. Until then you remain under the curse!

Who said the above? EGW:

-BC- 20MR

-TI- Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty

-CN- 1446

-CT- Seek God's Will; Distrust Self; Adopt Health Principles; Follow Christ in

Self-denial and Sacrifice

-PR- 03

-PG- 117

What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man [his so called righteousness] in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, hey are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. When they begin to praise and exalt God all the day long, then by beholding [Him] they are becoming [denotes a process] changed into the same image. What is regeneration? It is revealing to man what is his own real

nature, that in himself he is worthless. These lessons you have never learned.

1] You see in the judgment Christ's isn't going to take your works and see if you have fulfilled the law. Why? No one has fulfilled the law as Christ.

2] And Christ won't take your bad works and make up for these with His own merit. That's salvation by faith PLUS works.

3] Then why a judgment? To examine the origin of your works!

Works of iniquity are the fruit of a legalistic gospel...a legalistic relationship. These will condemn the believer in the judgment.

On the other hand works of faith, good works done by Christ, will be the result of accepting the true gospel. They testify that such believers have accepted their justification by faith alone and hence they experience genuine fruit free of self-righteousness.

So yes, fruit bearing is very important, but in order to bear the correct fruit you must have and believe in the correct gospel.

[Robert]

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders [many wonderful works] in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS [iniquity]!" Mt 7:21-23 NKJ

Yes, these are legalists. No agape is seen in their lives. They really practice iniquity - self-centered works - self-righteous work. These works prove, in the judgment, that they have joined themselves to a false gospel of works or faith plus works. They believe they they are wholly or partially justified by their obedience. They have refused the "in Christ" truth.

What's the source of their works? Right, self - the flesh trying to act good either to appease an angry god and/or to receive a reward.

Christ can't defend such legalists against Satan's accurate accusations in the judgment. Why? Only "in Christ" can He defend us and He does this by proving to the universe and Satan that genuine fruit can only come from those standing on the platform of justification by faith alone.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Gerry, I teach grace. The only reason I give you law is to open your eyes just as God did with the Jews.

Teach grace? While you charge blindness, you are so blind that you can't see that your teaching is antinomianism, pure and simple.

If you really understood the gospel, you would be teaching what the Apostle Paul taught, i.e.

[color:red]"Through Christ, God gave me the special work of an apostle, which was to lead people of all nations TO BELIVE ANDOBEY. I do this work for Him." Rom 1:5 NCV.

And to make sure that no one misunderstood the gospel he preached was not a licentious grace, he closed his Roman epistle with:

"It (the gospel) has been made clear through the writings of the prophets. And by the command of the eternal God it is made known to all nations THAT THEY MIGHT BELIEVE AND OBEY." Rom 16:26 NCV.

Gerry

[John317]

...And to make sure that no one misunderstood the gospel he preached was not a licentious grace, he closed his Roman epistle with:

"It (the gospel) has been made clear through the writings of the prophets. And by the command of the eternal God it is made known to all nations THAT THEY MIGHT BELIEVE AND OBEY." Rom 16:26 NCV.

Good point. Paul stated the same purpose of the gospel in Romans 1: 5 and in 16: 26. He shows in both verses that the gospel he preaches will result in the kind of obedience to God that is based on trust and faith. It is clear that if it is truly understood, the gospel will not lead people to believe that obedience is unnecessary or that it is unrelated to righteousness and salvation. Paul was not preaching that the law is done away with, or antinomianism.

[Robert]

Quote:

Gerry, I teach grace. The only reason I give you law is to open your eyes just as God did with the Jews.

Teach grace? While you charge blindness, you are so blind that you can't see that your teaching is antinomianism, pure and simple.

I teach, as does the Bible, that the believer is no longer under the law. The law hasn't died, I died in the humanity of Christ. [Romans 6:6/7:4] Because I have accepted that truth there's no condemnation even when I have the man of Romans 7's experience [see Romans 8:1].

In the judgment Satan, my accuser, will reject that I have a right to enter heaven. The reason? Robert is a sinner and your own law says that the soul who sins it shall die.

Christ will then prove my faith in the gospel, not by seeing how good I am, but by proving the origin of those fruits in my life. Since my hope is built on nothing else than Jesus Christ and His righteousness the fruit produced in me will be genuine. These fruits will prove my faith in Christ and will give Him the legal right to present me before God's law complete in Himself.

Rob

[Robert]

Good point. Paul stated the same purpose....

Sorry, but you have yet to answer my question concerning the OC and Ellen White. Cat got your tongue?

Rob

[Robert]

"Through Christ, God gave me the special work of an apostle, which was to lead people of all nations TO BELIVE ANDOBEY. I do this work for Him." Rom 1:5 NCV.

NCV: Nearly correct version

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Good point. Paul stated the same purpose....

Sorry, but you have yet to answer my question concerning the OC and Ellen White. Cat got your tongue?

Rob

I have just not spent much time on the computer for the last several days. I'll get around to responding to your question. I've noticed other people doing the same thing, assuming that if someone does not respond right away, it's because they can't or won't. You have to realize that people have lives outside the computer or CA. I used to spend hour after hour on CA but am no longer able, for reasons beyond my control, to do this. So my responses will probably come more slowly from now on, and not because I want them to. But I'll do my best to get around to all of your questions.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

"Through Christ, God gave me the special work of an apostle, which was to lead people of all nations TO BELIVE ANDOBEY. I do this work for Him." Rom 1:5 NCV.

NCV: Nearly correct version

Romans 16: 26: ".... the message I proclaim... so that all the Gentiles might come to faith and obedience" (TNIV).

Romans 1: 5-- "Through him [Christ] and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith" (NIV).

Romans 16: 26-- "... so men can put their trust in God and obey Him" (New Life Version).

Romans 1: 5-- "We are to preach to the people of all nations so that they should obey Him and put their trust in Him" (New Life Version).

Romans 1: 5-- "... to win men to the obedience that springs from faith among all the Gentiles" (Weymouth).

Romans 1: 5-- "... to urge upon all the heathen obedience inspired by faith" (Williams).

Romans 16: 26-- "... to lead them to obedience and faith" (Goodspeed).

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Robert

NCV: Nearly correct version[/quote']

Romans 16: 26: ".... the message I proclaim... so that all the Gentiles might come to faith and obedience" (TNIV).

Romans 1: 5-- "Through him [Christ] and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith" (NIV).

Romans 16: 26-- "... so men can put their trust in God and obey Him" (New Life Version).

Romans 1: 5-- "We are to preach to the people of all nations so that they should obey Him and put their trust in Him" (New Life Version).

Romans 1: 5-- "... to win men to the obedience that springs from faith among all the Gentiles" (Weymouth).

Romans 1: 5-- "... to urge upon all the heathen obedience inspired by faith" (Williams).

Romans 16: 26-- "... to lead them to obedience and faith" (Goodspeed).

Let me add a few more:

[color:red]"...this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere, so that they too might believd AND obey Him." Rom 16:26 NLT.

"...to bring about the obedience of faith." NRSV

"...leading to the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH." NASB

"...and by the command of the eternal God it is made known to all nations, so that all may believe AND obey." GNT

"...to bring about the obedience of faith." ESV.

Gerry

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

That's why EGW can be quoted saying,

Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience] is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient [those failing to produce "complete obedience"] He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

She also says: "When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus ACCEPTS this disposition and effort as MAN'S BEST SERVICE, and HE MAKES UP FOR THE DEFICIENCY WITH HIS OWN DIVINE MERIT.

Gerry

Which is it Gerry? "Complete obedience [not partial...not almost holy, but complete obedience]" or partially your performance and partially Christ's?

Answer: Neither!

You blind man!!! You are not saved partially by your performance and partially by Christ's. This is subtle legalism. Besides, the law doesn't accept partial obedience.

The law must be answered and its requirements are just. You are either righteous "in Christ" or you are righteous in yourself. No in betweens. No I must do my best and God will make up the rest. Do you know why? Because your motive will be centered in "self". You'll never have the assurance of salvation because you'll never know if you did your best.

Rob

You claim to teach grace and claim everybody else who teach faith that works and obey are legalists when the fact is, you teach the most abject form of legalism. Paul plainly proclaims that we are not under the law as a way of salvation but under grace. But you turn right around and place the obeying believer under law as the means of salvation!

In whom are the "righteous requirements of the law...fulfilled" in Christ? Those that go on practicing sin? Beware what you are teaching, friend. Paul plainly says that it is fulfilled in those "who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:4.

By your own account, you have come from an extreme form of legalism, only to now swing to an extreme form of antinomianism. Now, come off this other extreme and learn a more balanced view of faith and obedience. The kind of faith that Paul commended the Thessalonians twice:

[color:red]"We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ"... 1 Thes 1:2,3 NKJ.

Gerry

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

Gerry, I teach grace. The only reason I give you law is to open your eyes just as God did with the Jews.

Teach grace? While you charge blindness, you are so blind that you can't see that your teaching is antinomianism, pure and simple.

I teach, as does the Bible, that the believer is no longer under the law. The law hasn't died, I died in the humanity of Christ. [Romans 6:6/7:4] Because I have accepted that truth there's no condemnation even when I have the man of Romans 7's experience [see Romans 8:1].

In the judgment Satan, my accuser, will reject that I have a right to enter heaven. The reason? Robert is a sinner and your own law says that the soul who sins it shall die.

Christ will then prove my faith in the gospel, not by seeing how good I am, but by proving the origin of those fruits in my life. Since my hope is built on nothing else than Jesus Christ and His righteousness the fruit produced in me will be genuine. These fruits will prove my faith in Christ and will give Him the legal right to present me before God's law complete in Himself.

Rob

And what are these genuine fruits that you are talking about that prove your faith in Christ?

Gerry

[Gerr]

Quote:

On the other hand works of faith, good works done by Christ, will be the result of accepting the true gospel. They testify that such believers have accepted their justification by faith alone and hence they experience genuine fruit free of self-righteousness.

So yes, fruit bearing is very important, but in order to bear the correct fruit you must have and believe in the correct gospel.

And the correct gospel is: [color:red]"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Eph 2:8-10 NKJ.

Your problem is that you only believe verses 8 & 9 which is ONLY HALF of the gospel, which is no gospel at all. Read verse 10, Robert! Read verse 10!

Gerry

[John317]

..."We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ"... 1 Thes 1:2,3 NKJ.

Gerry

It's so important to make a distinction between works of the law and works of faith. Christ's works were all works of faith, and the Bible calls us to do the same kind of works that Christ did. He had the kind of faith that produces obedience, based on love and appreciation to God, and that is the same kind faith that Romans 1: 5 and 16: 26, as well as Eph. 2: 10, are speaking of.

But even this kind of faith does not cause us to be sinless and absolutely perfect in the sense of keeping God's law without any failure. That would only be a cause of concern if we were attempting to work our way to salvation by works of the law. But why would we ever want to go back under law?

We are under grace! But does being "under grace" mean that we don't obey God's law? As Paul asks, "Should the fact that we are under grace mean that we are to go on sinning? May it never be!" He is obviously signifying that being under grace means that we will NOT go on sinning.

Isn't that precisely what both James 2 and 1 John 3 teach?

Notice that they are not teaching that believers never sin but that believers confess their sins and are cleansed of them, and then do not go back to practicing them, like a dog returning to its vomit. It is not a matter of trying to obey the law in order to be saved. Rather, it's a matter of obeying God because He is in the process of saving us!!!

[John317]

We are all sinners but we are all Predestined to be saved. We can except that or reject it.

Are there conditions of salvation? If so, what do you believe them to be?

[John317]

Quote:

Excellent questions. I think it is disingenuous to quote a person as authority only when she backs up one's position and then reject those that are contrary.

This is simply ridiculous. No one person has ALL the answers nor is one person Perfect.

In with the good ... out with the bad.

No author is placed in this position that I know of. Since when is there a rule that states you have to agree 100% with an author in order to quote said author?

Never heard of that one ....

I would be interested in what you think of the following:

Ellen White wrote to G. W. Amadon in 1906: “The evening after the Sabbath I retired, and rested well without ache or pain until half past ten. I was unable to sleep. I had received instruction [by heavenly Guide], and I seldom lie in bed after such instruction comes. There was a company assembled in ____, and instruction was given by One in our midst that I was to repeat and repeat with pen and voice. I left my bed, and wrote for five hours as fast as my pen could trace the lines. Then I rested on the bed for an hour, and slept part of the time.

“I placed the matter in the hands of my copyist, and on Monday morning it was waiting for me, placed inside my office door on Sunday evening. There were four articles ready for me to read over and make any corrections needed. The matter is now prepared, and some of it will go in the mail today.

“This is the line of work that I am carrying on. I do most of my writing while the other members of the family are asleep. I build my fire, and then write uninterruptedly, sometimes for hours.”

[John317]

-PC- ST

-PT- The Signs of the Times

-DT- 02-26-85

-AT- Sanctification--The True and the False

-PR- 10

"No one who claims holiness is really holy."

Now wait a minute...how many times have I heard SDA make the claim that not only do they keep the commandments, but they keep all ten? Going by EGW's remark I must conclude that they aren't holy, but rather self-righteous.

"Those who are registered as holy in the books of Heaven are not aware of the fact, and are the last ones to boast of their own goodness. None of the prophets and apostles ever professed holiness, not even Daniel, Paul, or John. The righteous [the just] never make such a claim. The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to him; for their consciences are sensitive, and they regard sin more as God regards it."

Did you get that? "The more nearly they resemble Christ, the more they lament their unlikeness to Him ...."

"The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God," (5 T 211).

Study the entire chapter, "The Seal of God," in 5 T 207-216. Do you believe all of it? I do. I pray you do also.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

[color:blue]

Has it occurred to you that she made that statement 100 some yrs ago? You don't think any progress has been made since then?

Not from Ellen White....She died with limited light according to her own quote.

Now "yes" progress has been made thanks to folks like Jack Sequeira, Morris Venden, Robert Wieland, etc.

But did any of those men have Ellen White's experience as she wrote it here? Did any of those men ever even CLAIM that they were given dreams and visions directly from God, and awakened by an angel of God and told to write, write, write?

What do you think of what she says here?

Ellen White wrote to G. W. Amadon in 1906: “The evening after the Sabbath I retired, and rested well without ache or pain until half past ten. I was unable to sleep. I had received instruction [by heavenly Guide], and I seldom lie in bed after such instruction comes. There was a company assembled in ____, and instruction was given by One in our midst that I was to repeat and repeat with pen and voice. I left my bed, and wrote for five hours as fast as my pen could trace the lines. Then I rested on the bed for an hour, and slept part of the time.

“I placed the matter in the hands of my copyist, and on Monday morning it was waiting for me, placed inside my office door on Sunday evening. There were four articles ready for me to read over and make any corrections needed. The matter is now prepared, and some of it will go in the mail today.

“This is the line of work that I am carrying on. I do most of my writing while the other members of the family are asleep. I build my fire, and then write uninterruptedly, sometimes for hours.”