Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo If she is wrong where you don't agree with her' date=' how do you know that you are not wrong also where you do agree with her? Gerry [/quote'] Gerry...again...I use EGW in talking to Adventist. She isn't my pope. You have no credibility whatsoever when you take only the ones you agree with and disregard those that contradict your views. That's dishonesty of the grossessed kind. Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 What Christ is doing now in the heavenly sanctuary is just as essential for our salvation as was his death. And what is He doing? Col 1:21 And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, [Eph says the same: "we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath...."]verse 22 "but He has now reconciled us [where?] in his body of flesh by his death, [why?] in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before Him [God], 23 provided that you continue [to keep the whole law...No?] 23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. Notice that "in Christ" you are "holy and blameless"! By faith Christ presents you perfect in Himself. And what does "continue in the faith" mean? Same old life of sin? Here is what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians: "We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, remembering without ceasing your WORK OF FAITH, LABOR OF LOVE, and patience of hope..." 1 Thes 1:2,3 NKJ. Faith is not just some mental assent to propositional truth. Faith like love is a living, breathing, working truth. Then Paul adds: "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, LIKE the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter.....For God did not call us to uncleannness, but in HOLINESS [same Gk word for sanctification]. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given as His Holy Spirit." 1 Thes 4:3-8 NKJ. So, what does continueing in the faith mean? According to Paul in this letter, it is continueing in a faith that works, a faith that abstain from immorality and uncleanness of any kind. If a believer is doing this, he/she would have to be keeping the law!!! Legalism, huh? And horrors!!! Paul tells the Thessalonians, "...work with your own hands, as we commanded you, that you may walk PROPERLY toward those who are outside, AND THAT YOU MAY LACK NOTHING!" 4:11,12 NKJ. What? Work so that they won't lack anything instead of "so your neighbor won't lack anything?" Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: John317 Would you like to discuss the subject of the atonement in depth? It's an important one. No, it's not important to me. I have assurance because by faith I stand complete "in Christ"! I have received the atonement. I have been reconciled to the Father by Christ's doing and dying. By faith I have accepted the truth as it is "in Christ". At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ". Right now I am both a sinner, but "in Christ" 100% righteous. At the resurrection I will actually be righteous. One is by faith the other is by reality. I am waiting for the reality. In the meantime as long as my faith remains in the Beloved I am saved. But I am also being saved because ultimately, until I actually receive my glorified life, I have yet to fully receive the benefits of Christ's complete atonement. Therefore I was saved "in Christ" some 2000 years ago. I received that truth and as long as I have Christ I am saved. But I must keep my faith in Him and therefore I am being saved, while saved, until I receive what is true of me "in Christ." All the while practicing selfishness? Haven't you been preaching that there will be NO selfishness in heaven? Do you have some special dispensation to practice selfishness but yet allowed to go in? Gerry Quote
Robert Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: Robert I have assurance because by faith I stand complete "in Christ"! I have received the atonement. I have been reconciled to the Father by Christ's doing and dying. By faith I have accepted the truth as it is "in Christ". At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ". Haven't you been preaching that there will be NO selfishness in heaven? If you would have read what I said above we wouldn't be having this conversation. Here it is again: "At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ"." Gerry, face it - you are selfish...you are falling short of God's love. He gave up everything...even heaven...so that you could have it without Him. That love was revealed at the cross. So please don't lie and tell me you are living His life. Do not let Satan convince you that you are Holy and selfless....Repent! Quote
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 Quote: When men venture to criticize the Word of God they venture on sacred, holy ground and had better fear and tremble and hide their wisdom as foolishness. God sets no man to pronounce judgment on His Word, selecting some things as inspired and discrediting others as uninspired. The testimonies have been treated in the same way; but God is not in this. {5MR 55.2} Nobody believes everything EGW wrote. And this is one of those to not believe. It is rather self serving isn't it? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 Could you please precisely define what a cult is? It is very easy to throw stigmatized names around but we need to define exactly what is meant. It was earlier posted that we cannot understand God's agape love. I find the Bible says different. Quote: 2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. Agreeing that you can use sister White's writings when they agree with your position and reject them when you don't like what they say completely destroys any credibility. If she was not inspired then she has no credibility at all! From your position you then are using a non credible source as verification of your position! This is the problem with some SDAs. They want to place her as an infallible guide. She was inspired to give certain messages to us. She was not inspired to say every word that came out of her mouth or written down to any and every individual for her entire lifetime. NO prophet has ever been put in that position. And EGW should not be either. In with the good ... out with the bad. Robert's approach is exactly the correct one. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 Quote: "At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ"." Gerry, face it - you are selfish...you are falling short of God's love. He gave up everything...even heaven...so that you could have it without Him. That love was revealed at the cross. So please don't lie and tell me you are living His life. Do not let Satan convince you that you are Holy and selfless....Repent! AMEN. And praise God we will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye and be fit for heaven . Ellen puts it in a beautiful way. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: praise Him Quote: When men venture to criticize the Word of God they venture on sacred, holy ground and had better fear and tremble and hide their wisdom as foolishness. God sets no man to pronounce judgment on His Word, selecting some things as inspired and discrediting others as uninspired. The testimonies have been treated in the same way; but God is not in this. {5MR 55.2} Nobody believes everything EGW wrote. And this is one of those to not believe. How do you know? What if you are wrong? Gerry Quote
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 Quote: How do you know? What if you are wrong? IF I am wrong ??? The blood of Jesus saves me ... not my knowledge or my works. I will stick with what I find in the Bible. I think I am safest with that. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: Gerry Haven't you been preaching that there will be NO selfishness in heaven? If you would have read what I said above we wouldn't be having this conversation. Here it is again: "At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ"." New birth by and by? "I tell you the truth, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jn 3:3 NIV. "TODAY, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." Conversion at the Second Coming? Guys, if I am wrong I have nothing to lose. If you are mistaken in thinking that you can hang on to willful/deliberate sin until the Lord comes and believing that you will be separated from it at that time, you have everything to lose. Gerry Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted April 20, 2008 Moderators Posted April 20, 2008 Quote: How do you know? What if you are wrong? IF I am wrong ??? The blood of Jesus saves me ... not my knowledge or my works. I will stick with what I find in the Bible. I think I am safest with that. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" 1 Cor 10:12 NIV Gerry Quote
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 Quote: if I am wrong I have nothing to lose I have good news for you Gerry. This is the first time I agree with you. You have nothing to lose for you are saved. Praise God. Even despite your understanding of God ... at the second coming ... He will fill you in with the blessing of the full knowledge of Salvation. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted April 20, 2008 Author Posted April 20, 2008 BTW Gerry ... you had asked for more of Tom Hughes .... So I posted a "Part 2 " in a new thread. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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