Baptized for the dead?

[John317]

“Modern Language Bible”???? That version of the bible is only exceeded by the JWs Bible and the Clear word bible in corruption of the SACRED texts.

I doubt you've even seen it before or know which translation I am referring to.

Perhaps you are thinking of a different translation. Do you know anything about the history of the Modern Language Bible? It is probably not the one you are thinking of.

Since you make the claim that the Modern Language Bible is so corrupt, it should be easy for you to give two examples of its "corruption."

Read about it here, including the scholarly reviews, etc., then let me know if this is the same translation that you denigrated in your post by saying it is one of the most "corrupt" translations.

Quote:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Language-Bible/dp/1565639316

Editorial Reviews

Product Description

Trustworthy scholarship and contemporary American usage mean that The Modern Language Bible is a useful resource for pastors, students, and laypeople. This thorough revision of the 1959 Berkeley Version is faithful to the original texts, yet it’s clearly expressed in today’s English. Avoiding colloquialisms that quickly date other modern-language translations, it accurately retains the dignity and message of God’s eternal Word.

FEATURES

• Reflects competent evangelical scholarship

• Contemporary American language, yet avoids colloquialisms that would date the translation and limit its use

• Helpful chronological data

• Explanatory footnotes at the bottom of each page offer helpful background and detail, but avoid paraphrasing and personal interpretation

• Weights, measures, and currency references translated into American standards

• 9-point type; paragraph format for easy reading

• Textual accuracy and brevity of expression that make the intent and meaning of the original language clearly understandable

Another review:

Quote:

http://kenanderson.net/bible/html/modern_language.html

The Modern Language Bible

The Modern Language Bible (MLB) is a revision of the Berkeley Version. It is also known as the New Berkeley Version in Modern English.

The Berkeley Version was a project of a Dutch-born American by the name of Gerrit Verkuyl, who served for many years with the Board of Christian Education of the Presbyterian Church. He began work on his translation in 1936, publishing a translation of the NT in 1945. Zondervan Publishing House encouraged him to translate the OT as well. Under his supervision, a staff of 20 translators completed the work in 1959, publishing the collected work as the Berkeley Version in Modern English.

In 1969 the revised edition, known as the Modern Language Bible was published by Zondervan Publishing House, which had retained the rights of publication to the Berkeley Version.

The NT edition of the Modern Language Bible was based on the 8th edition of the Greek text of Tischendorf, although other texts were consulted. For the most part, the translators of the OT tried to remain true to the traditional Hebrew text, but they did not hesitate to correct or amend it when convinced that the text had suffered in translation.

The Modern Language Bible is a completely new translation, and not a revision of earlier versions. The translators endeavored to be true to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

As with the RSV, the text is divided into paragraphs, with the verse numbers provided in small superscript type. Many of the poetic passages in the OT are presented in poetic form, but Job, as well as many portions of poetic text in Isaiah, are printed as prose.

A distinctive feature of the Modern Language Bible is the capitalization of pronouns referring to Diety, a custom among many Christian churches.

Overall, the MLB is a simple, clear, and accurate translation, written in contemporary English. It is a useful tool to use in study, and in comparison with other versions of the Holy Bible.

[John317]

Information On This Highly Regarded Translation, The Modern Language Bible--

Quite a few years before the NIV, Zondervan published a new translation of a New Testament called The Berkeley Version. It would later expanded to the entire Bible, and eventually receive a name change: The Modern Language Bible: The New Berkeley Version in Modern English.

However, even beyond a common publisher, there’s still another connection that the MLB has with the NIV. If history had turned out a bit differently, there’s a strong chance that the MLB--and not the NIV--could have risen to become the English-speaking world’s top-selling translation. Who knows? Perhaps instead of the TNIV, we’d have had Today’s Modern Language Bible (the TMLB!) for critics to be upset over.

Background. But I’m getting ahead of myself. Some may be wondering how the MLB came to be. This translation began as audacious dream of Gerrit Verkuyl, a Presbyterian minister and staff member of the Board of Christian Education of the Presbyterian Church, U.S.A. I say that the dream was audacious for two reasons. First, for Verkuyl, English was not a primary language. Nevertheless, this Dutch-born immigrant to the United States desired to create a Bible translation in modern English. Second, the seeds of this dream had been planted in Verkuyl's spirit during his undergraduate studies at Park College in Missouri where a professor instilled in him a love for Greek, and Verkuyl began comparing the Greek New Testament with the King James Version and the Dutch Bible he was most familiar with. Verkuyl determined that his Dutch Bible was more faithful to the Greek than the KJV, and he longed for a modern and accurate version to be made available in his newly adopted tongue, English. Yet, Verkuyl's career got in the way of his idea for a new translation, and work did not actually begin on it until he reached retirement at the age of 65! But if Moses' most important mission didn't begin until he was eighty, Verkuyl was not about to let his age get in the way of his dream.

In 1936 Gerrit Verkuyl began working on his modern language New Testament. A year later he moved to Berkeley, California, and in 1939 he retired from the Board of Christian Education so that he could devote his full energies to his translation. Borrowing the name of his new home, Verkuyl published the first edition of The Berkeley Version of the New Testament in 1945. The publishing rights were eventually transferred to Zondervan where there was interest in creating a complementary Old Testament as well. Such a large project as an Old Testament translation was outside the bounds of Verykuyl's abilities, especially at his advanced age. But a team of nineteen Hebrew scholars was put together who worked under Verkuyl's supervision to create a new translation of the Old Testament using the same principles and guidelines that Verkuyl had followed in translating his New Testament. The entire Bible was finally published in 1959 as The Berkeley Version of the Bible in Modern English. Verkuyl's lifelong dream which began when he was in his twenties, and was not commenced until he was in his sixties, was not fully completed until he was 86 years old!

The staff of Old Testament translators for the 1959 edition reads like a who's who of mid-twentieth century evangelical OT scholarship:

Gleason Archer, Fuller Theological Seminary

John W. Bailey, Berkeley Baptist Divinity School

David E. Culley, Western Theological Seminary

Derward W. Deere, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary

Clyde T. Francisco, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

Leonard Greenway, Pastor, Bethel Christian Reformed Church

Howard A. Hanke, Asbury College

S. Lewis Johnson, Dallas Theological Seminary

James B. Keefer, Missionary, United Presbyterian Church

William Sanford LaSor, Fuller Theological Seminary

Jacob M. Myers, Lutheran Theological Seminary

J. Barton Payne, Trinity Theological Seminary/Wheaton College

George L. Robinson, McCormick Theological Seminary

Samuel Schultz, Wheaton College

B. Hathaway Struthers, chaplain, U. S. Navy

Merrill F. Unger, Dallas Theological Seminary

Gerard Van Groningen, Reformed Theological College

Gerrit Verkuyl, Presbyterian Board of Education

Leon J. Wood, Grand Rapids Theological Seminary and Bible Institute

Martin J. Wyngaarden, Calvin Theological Seminary

[John317]

[John317]

Quote:

JOHN3:17-- Isaiah 1: 28-- The destruction of transgressors and of sinners shall be together, And those who forsake the LORD shall be consumed [Hebrew: Kalah, to be finished, to be at an end, to vanish, to cease; to be entirely consumed; Modern Language Bible: annihilated].

Was the wall still a wall after it was "consumed"? It didn't exist as a wall any more, did it?

In the destruction of the wicked as recorded in Malachi 4: 1, 3, what becomes of the wicked? It says they are ashes under the feet of the righteous. They will disappear as far as humans go. They will no longer be humans but ashes. The wicked will be as fertilizer on the surface of the earth. Elsewhere the Bible says they will be "as if they had not been." They will be "no more." They will come to an end, just as that wall came to an end.

This is the process:

Living soul, or nephesh - breath of life= dust

Can you show from the Bible that the breath of life alone is a conscious entity that survives the death of the body and has a will, knowledge and intelligence?

Please do it if you can.

Quote:

HUMBlE-- “Modern Language Bible”???? That version of the bible is only exceeded by the JWs Bible and the Clear word bible in corruption of the SACRED texts.

Would you like to apologize for denigrating the MLB?

By the way, the Clear Word Bible is no longer called a Bible. That was changed. And no one is trying to say it is a translation. It is stated clearly by the author that it is a paraphrase, and he tells the reader to use it as one would a commentary, not as a study Bible. Blanco tells his reader to compare it carefully with a literal translation such as the New American Standard or the King James Version, etc. So it is unfair to call it a corruption.

You may not agree with it, and that is OK. I don't agree with everything in the Living Bible or the New Living Bible, but it has its place, and I am sure that God has blessed its use. Many people have fallen in love with Jesus through reading it. The same with the Clear Word.

[John317]

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Malachi 4: 1-- The Great Day of God For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up ,” Says the LORD of hosts, “ That will leave them neither root nor branch. Study these and later I will post many more such clear Bible statements.

HUMBLE-- Answer: That scripture doesn’t address the immortality of the soul, because it is already implicit. The Prophets taught the immortality of the soul and this scripture only describes the physical destruction of the wicked, their punishment is after this life.

Present the Bible evidence from the prophets which clearly teaches the immortality of the soul.

Which prophets? Cite verses please.

[John317]

Meaning and use of nephish in the Old Testament--

Which ones below do you believe refer to nephish as immortal and conscious after death?

Strong's Number: 5315 #pn

Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling

Nephesh neh'-fesh

Definition

soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

living being

living being (with life in the blood)

the man himself, self, person or individual

seat of the appetites

seat of emotions and passions

activity of mind

dubious

activity of the will

dubious

activity of the character

Translated Words

KJV (753) - any, 3; appetite, 2; body, 8; creature, 9; dead, 5; desire, 4; heart, 15; himself, 8; life, 117; man, 3; mind, 15; misc, 47; person, 29; soul, 475; themselves, 3; will, 4; yourselves, 6;

NAS (458) - Himself, 4; Myself, 3; any, 1; anyone, 1; appetite, 7; being, 1; beings, 3; body, 1; breath, 1; corpse, 2; creature, 6; creatures, 3; dead, 1; dead person, 2; deadly, 1; death, 1; defenseless, 1; desire, 2; discontented, 1; endure, 1; feelings, 1; fierce, 2; greedy, 1; heart, 5; heart's, 2; herself, 12; himself, 19; human, 1; human being, 1; hunger, 1; life, 1; lifeblood, 2; lives, 34; living creature, 1; longing, 1; man, 4; man's, 1; men, 2; mind, 2; myself, 2; number, 1; ones, 1; others, 1; ourselves, 3; own, 1; passion, 1; people, 1; perfume, 1; person, 1; persons, 19; slave, 1; some, 1; soul, 238; soul's, 1; souls, 12; strength, 1; themselves, 6; thirst, 1; throat, 2; will, 1; wish, 1; wishes, 1; yourself, 11; yourselves, 13;

[John317]

Occurrences of nephish in Genesis--

Do you believe that Gen. 35: 18 is in reference to an immortal soul?

Verse Display - Strong's Number: 5315

Original Word Transliterated Word

#pn Nephesh

Translated Words

any, appetite, body, creature, dead, desire, heart, himself, life, man, mind, misc, person, soul, themselves, will, yourselves

The KJV Strong's Version - 39 Verses

Ge 1:20 -

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Ge 1:21 -

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:24 -

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 1:30 -

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Ge 2:7 -

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ge 2:19 -

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Ge 9:4 -

But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Ge 9:5 -

And surely your blood of your lives willI require; at the hand of every beast willI require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother willI require the life of man.

Ge 9:10 -

And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

Ge 9:12 -

And God said, This is the token of the covenant whichI make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

Ge 9:15 -

AndI will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Ge 9:16 -

And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Ge 12:5 -

And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

Ge 12:13 -

Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

Ge 14:21 -

And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Ge 17:14 -

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Ge 19:17 -

And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Ge 19:19 -

Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; andI cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, andI die:

Ge 19:20 -

Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.

Ge 23:8 -

And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,

Ge 27:4 -

And make me savoury meat, such asI love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.

Ge 27:19 -

And Jacob said unto his father,I am Esau thy firstborn;I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

Ge 27:25 -

And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine, and he drank.

Ge 27:31 -

And he also had made savoury meat, and brought it unto his father, and said unto his father, Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that thy soul may bless me.

Ge 32:30 -

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Ge 34:3 -

And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

Ge 34:8 -

And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter:I pray you give her him to wife.

Ge 35:18 -

And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

Ge 36:6 -

And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.

Ge 37:21 -

And Reuben heard it, and he delivered him out of their hands; and said, Let us not kill him.

Ge 42:21 -

And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.

Ge 44:30 -

Now therefore when I come to thy servant my father, and the lad be not with us; seeing that his life is bound up in the lad's life;

Ge 46:15 -

These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.

Ge 46:18 -

These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter, and these she bare unto Jacob, even sixteen souls.

Ge 46:22 -

These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

Ge 46:25 -

These are the sons of Bilhah, which Laban gave unto Rachel his daughter, and she bare these unto Jacob: all the souls were seven.

Ge 46:26 -

All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;

Ge 46:27 -

And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.

Ge 49:6 -

O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

[John317]

Use of Nephish in the Book of Exodus--

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 5315

Nephesh

Translated Words

any, appetite, body, creature, dead, desire, heart, himself, life, man, mind, misc, person, soul, themselves, will, yourselves

The KJV Strong's Version - 15 Verses

Ex 1:5 -

And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

Ex 4:19 -

And the LORD said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

Ex 12:4 -

And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

Ex 12:15 -

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

Ex 12:16 -

And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

Ex 12:19 -

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Ex 15:9 -

The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them.

Ex 16:16 -

This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.

Ex 21:23 -

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Ex 21:30 -

If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.

Ex 23:9 -

Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Ex 30:12 -

When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.

Ex 30:15 -

The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

Ex 30:16 -

And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

Ex 31:14 -

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

[John317]

Meaning and use of Nephish in the book of Psalms--

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Verse Display - Strong's Number: 5315

Nephesh

Translated Words

any, appetite, body, creature, dead, desire, heart, himself, life, man, mind, misc, person, soul, themselves, will, yourselves

The KJV Strong's Version - 141 Verses

Ps 3:2 -

Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah.

Ps 6:3 -

My soul is also sore vexed: but thou,O LORD, how long?

Ps 6:4 -

Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

Ps 7:2 -

Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver.

Ps 7:5 -

Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Ps 10:3 -

For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Ps 11:1 -

, A Psalm of David.] In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?

Ps 11:5 -

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Ps 13:2 -

How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?

Ps 16:10 -

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Ps 17:9 -

From the wicked that oppress me, from my deadly enemies, who compass me about.

Ps 17:13 -

Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:

Ps 19:7 -

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Ps 22:20 -

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

Ps 22:29 -

All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

Ps 23:3 -

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Ps 24:4 -

He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Ps 25:1 -

Unto thee,O LORD, doI lift up my soul.

Ps 25:13 -

His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

Ps 25:20 -

O keep my soul, and deliver me: let me not be ashamed; for I put my trust in thee.

Ps 26:9 -

Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:

Ps 27:12 -

Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.

Ps 30:3 -

O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave [sheol]: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Ps 31:7 -

I will be glad and rejoice in thy mercy: for thou hast considered my trouble; thou hast known my soul in adversities;

Ps 31:9 -

Have mercy upon me,O LORD, for I am in trouble: mine eye is consumed with grief, yea, my soul and my belly.

Ps 31:13 -

For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life.

Ps 33:19 -

To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.

Ps 33:20 -

Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.

Ps 34:2 -

My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

Ps 34:22 -

The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.

Ps 35:3 -

Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation.

Ps 35:4 -

Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.

Ps 35:7 -

For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul.

Ps 35:9 -

And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.

Ps 35:12 -

They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.

Ps 35:13 -

But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth:I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.

Ps 35:17 -

Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions.

Ps 35:25 -

Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up.

Ps 38:12 -

They also that seek after my life lay snares for me: and they that seek my hurt speak mischievous things, and imagine deceits all the day long.

Ps 40:14 -

Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Ps 41:2 -

The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.

Ps 41:4 -

I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.

Ps 42:1 -

, Maschil, for the sons of Korah.] As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee,O God.

Ps 42:2 -

My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shallI come and appear before God?

Ps 42:4 -

When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude,I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holy day.

Ps 42:5 -

Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.

Ps 42:6 -

O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore willI remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.

Ps 42:11 -

Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope thou in God: forI shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

Ps 43:5 -

Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God.

Ps 44:25 -

For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.

Ps 49:8 -

(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:)

Ps 49:15 -

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Ps 49:18 -

Though while he lived he blessed his soul: and men will praise thee, when thou doest well to thyself.

Ps 54:3 -

For strangers are risen up against me, and oppressors seek after my soul: they have not set God before them. Selah.

Ps 54:4 -

Behold, God is mine helper: the Lord is with them that uphold my soul.

Ps 55:18 -

He hath delivered my soul in peace from the battle that was against me: for there were many with me.

Ps 56:6 -

They gather themselves together, they hide themselves, they mark my steps, when they wait for my soul.

Ps 56:13 -

For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Ps 57:1 -

, Altaschith, Michtam of David, when he fled from Saul in the cave.] Be merciful unto me,O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings willI make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.

Ps 57:4 -

My soul is among lions: andI lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.

Ps 57:6 -

They have prepared a net for my steps; my soul is bowed down: they have digged a pit before me, into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves. Selah.

Ps 59:3 -

For, lo, they lie in wait for my soul: the mighty are gathered against me; not for my transgression, nor for my sin, O LORD.

Ps 62:1 -

, to Jeduthun,A Psalm of David.] Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation.

Ps 62:5 -

My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

Ps 63:1 -

of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah.]O God, thou art my God; early willI seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Ps 63:5 -

My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness; and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips:

Ps 63:8 -

My soul followeth hard after thee: thy right hand upholdeth me.

Ps 63:9 -

But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.

Ps 66:9 -

Which holdeth our soul in life, and suffereth not our feet to be moved.

Ps 66:16 -

Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul.

Ps 69:1 -

upon Shoshannim,A Psalm of David.] Save me,O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul.

Ps 69:10 -

WhenI wept, and chastened my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach.

Ps 69:18 -

Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.

Ps 70:2 -

Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.

Ps 71:10 -

For mine enemies speak against me; and they that lay wait for my soul take counsel together,

Ps 71:13 -

Let them be confounded and consumed that are adversaries to my soul; let them be covered with reproach and dishonour that seek my hurt.

Ps 71:23 -

My lips shall greatly rejoice whenI sing unto thee; and my soul, which thou hast redeemed.

[John317]

Nephish in Psalms (Cont.)

Ps 72:13 -

He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

Ps 72:14 -

He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

Ps 74:19 -

O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.

Ps 77:2 -

In the day of my troubleI sought the Lord: my sore ran in the night, and ceased not: my soul refused to be comforted.

Ps 78:18 -

And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.

Ps 78:50 -

He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;

Ps 84:2 -

My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD: my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

Ps 86:2 -

Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.

Ps 86:4 -

Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul.

Ps 86:13 -

For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell [sheol].

Ps 86:14 -

O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them.

Ps 88:3 -

For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave [sheol].

Ps 88:14 -

LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?

Ps 89:48 -

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [sheol]? Selah.

Ps 94:17 -

Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Ps 94:19 -

In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul.

Ps 94:21 -

They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

Ps 97:10 -

Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Ps 103:1 -

Bless the LORD,O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.

Ps 103:2 -

Bless the LORD,O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

Ps 103:22 -

Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD,O my soul.

Ps 104:1 -

Bless the LORD,O my soul.O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

Ps 104:35 -

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD,O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

Ps 105:18 -

Whose feet they hurt with fetters: he was laid in iron:

Ps 105:22 -

To bind his princes at his pleasure; and teach his senators wisdom.

Ps 106:15 -

And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.

Ps 107:5 -

Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them.

Ps 107:9 -

For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.

Ps 107:18 -

Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death.

Ps 107:26 -

They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble.

Ps 109:20 -

Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.

Ps 109:31 -

For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.

Ps 116:4 -

Then called I upon the name of the LORD;O LORD,I beseech thee, deliver my soul.

Ps 116:7 -

Return unto thy rest,O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee.

Ps 116:8 -

For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

Ps 119:20 -

My soul breaketh for the longing that it hath unto thy judgments at all times.

Ps 119:25 -

DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.

Ps 119:28 -

My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word.

Ps 119:81 -

CAPH. My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word.

Ps 119:109 -

My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.

Ps 119:129 -

PE. Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them.

Ps 119:167 -

My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly.

Ps 119:175 -

Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.

Ps 120:2 -

Deliver my soul,O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue.

Ps 120:6 -

My soul hath long dwelt with him that hateth peace.

Ps 121:7 -

The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

Ps 123:4 -

Our soul is exceedingly filled with the scorning of those that are at ease, and with the contempt of the proud.

Ps 124:4 -

Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul:

Ps 124:5 -

Then the proud waters had gone over our soul.

Ps 124:7 -

Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.

Ps 130:5 -

I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word doI hope.

Ps 130:6 -

My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.

Ps 131:2 -

Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

Ps 138:3 -

In the day whenI cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul.

Ps 139:14 -

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Ps 141:8 -

But mine eyes are unto thee,O GOD the Lord: in thee is my trust; leave not my soul destitute.

Ps 142:4 -

I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul.

Ps 142:7 -

Bring my soul out of prison, that I may praise thy name: the righteous shall compass me about; for thou shalt deal bountifully with me.

Ps 143:3 -

For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.

Ps 143:6 -

I stretch forth my hands unto thee: my soul thirsteth after thee, as a thirsty land. Selah.

Ps 143:8 -

Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee.

Ps 143:11 -

Quicken me,O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake bring my soul out of trouble.

Ps 143:12 -

And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant.

Ps 146:1 -

Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD,O my soul.

[John317]

The use the Nephish in the book of Ecclesiastes--

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

- Strong's Number: 5315

Nephesh

Translated Words

any, appetite, body, creature, dead, desire, heart, himself, life, man, mind, misc, person, soul, themselves, will, yourselves

The KJV Strong's Version - 7 Verses

Ec 2:24 -

There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Ec 4:8 -

There is one alone, and there is not a second; yea, he hath neither child nor brother: yet is there no end of all his labour; neither is his eye satisfied with riches; neither saith he, For whom do I labour, and bereave my soul of good? This is also vanity, yea, it is a sore travail.

Ec 6:2 -

A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.

Ec 6:3 -

If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

Ec 6:7 -

All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.

Ec 6:9 -

Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the desire: this is also vanity and vexation of spirit.

Ec 7:28 -

Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.

[John317]

Use of Kal-ah (Kaw-Law), Annihilate, in Old Testament

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 3615 hlk

hlk a primitive root

Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling

Kalah kaw-law'

Verb 982,983,984

Definition

to accomplish, cease, consume, determine, end, fail, finish, be complete, be accomplished, be ended, be at an end, be finished, be spent

(Qal)

to be complete, be at an end

to be completed, be finished

to be accomplished, be fulfilled

to be determined, be plotted (bad sense)

to be spent, be used up

to waste away, be exhausted, fail

to come to an end, vanish, perish, be destroyed

(Piel)

to complete, bring to an end, finish

to complete (a period of time)

to finish (doing a thing)

to make an end, end

to accomplish, fulfil, bring to pass

to accomplish, determine (in thought)

to put an end to, cause to cease

to cause to fail, exhaust, use up, spend

to destroy, exterminate

(Pual) to be finished, be ended, be completed

Translated Words

KJV (206) - accomplish, 12; away, 3; consume, 57; destroy, 2; determined, 4; done, 9; end, 44; ended, 7; fail, 18; fainteth, 2; finish, 20; fulfil, 3; left, 2; misc, 13; spend, 8; waste, 2;

NAS (208) - accomplish, 2; accomplished, 1; annihilate, 1; annihilated, 2; been consumed, 2; been spent, 1; brings to pass, 1; brought, 1; came to an end, 1; ceased, 1; come to an end, 5; complete, 1; completed, 10; completely gone, 1; completion, 1; consume, 6; consumed, 16; decided, 3; demolish, 1; destroy, 10; destroyed, 4; destroyed them all, 1; destroys, 1; destruction, 1; determined, 1; devoured, 1; died, 1; end, 4; ended, 3; ending, 1; exhausted, 2; exterminated, 1; fail, 10; failed, 1; fails, 2; faints, 1; feed, 1; finish, 6; finished, 67; finishes, 1; fulfill, 2; languish, 1; languishes, 1; longed, 1; make an end, 1; over, 1; perish, 1; perishing, 1; plotted, 1; put an end, 2; ravage, 1; settled, 1; spend, 3; spent, 5; terminate, 1; use, 1; used, 1; vanish, 2; vanishes, 1; waste away, 1; wastes away, 1; yearned, 1;

Isa 1:28 -

And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

Isa 29:20 -

For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

Ps 37:20 -

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Ps 59:13 -

Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be: and let them know that God ruleth in Jacob unto the ends of the earth. Selah.

[John317]

The Use Of erx, or charam (utterly destroy, annihilate) In the Old Testament--

The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 2763 erx

erx

Charam khaw-ram'

Verb 744,745

Definition

to ban, devote, destroy utterly, completely destroy, dedicate for destruction, exterminate

(Hiphil)

to prohibit (for common use), ban

to consecrate, devote, dedicate for destruction

to exterminate, completely destroy

(Hophal)

to be put under the ban, be devoted to destruction

to be devoted, be forfeited

to be completely destroyed

to split, slit, mutilate (a part of the body)

(Qal) to mutilate

(Hiphil) to divide

Translated Words

KJV (52) - accursed, 1; consecrate, 1; destroy, 34; devote, 2; flat nose, 1; forfeited, 1; slay, 1; utterly, 10; utterly to make away, 1;

NAS (52) - annihilate, 1; covet, 1; destroy them utterly, 1; destroy utterly, 1; destroyed them utterly, 1; destroying, 1; destroying them completely, 2; destruction, 2; devote, 2; disfigured, 1; forfeited, 1; set apart, 1; sets apart, 1; utterly destroy, 11; utterly destroyed, 22; utterly destroying, 3;

Jer 50:26 -

Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left.

Ex 22:20 -

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

[John317]

Use of 'abad (annihilate, cause to perish) in the Old Testament--

Strong's Number: 6 db)

Original Word Word Origin

db) a primitive root

Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling

'abad aw-bad'

Parts of Speech TWOT

Verb 2

Definition

perish, vanish, go astray, be destroyed

(Qal)

perish, die, be exterminated

perish, vanish (fig.)

be lost, strayed

(Piel)

to destroy, kill, cause to perish, to give up (as lost), exterminate

to blot out, do away with, cause to vanish, (fig.)

cause to stray, lose

(Hiphil)

to destroy, put to death

of divine judgment

object name of kings (fig.)

Translated Words

KJV (184) - broken, 1; destroy, 62; destruction, 1; escape, 1; fail, 2; flee, 1; lose, 10; perish, 98; spendeth, 1; surely, 2; take, 1; undone, 1; utterly, 2; void, 1;

NAS (181) - annihilate, 2; annihilated, 1; been lost, 1; broken, 1; corrupts, 1; destroy, 33; destroyed, 15; destroying, 2; destroys, 2; destruction, 2; dying, 2; fail, 1; fails, 1; give up as lost, 1; lacking, 1; lost, 12; make vanish, 1; makes to perish, 1; no, 2; obliterate, 1; perish, 61; perished, 16; perishes, 7; perishing, 2; ruined, 4; surely perish, 3; take, 1; utterly destroy, 1; wandering, 1; wastes, 1; wiped, 1;

Job 20:7 -

Yet he [the wicked] shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?

Ps 1:6 -

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Ps 37:20 -

But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

[John317]

Strong's #398-- 'akal: "burn up," "devour," "consume," "annihilate."

Nahum 1:9-10

9 What do you conspire against the LORD?

He will make an utter end of it.

Affliction will not rise up a second time.

10 For while tangled like thorns,

And while drunken like drunkards,

They shall be devoured like stubble fully dried.

This last line refers to the end of the wicked on the great day of the Lord.

Compare Malachi 4: 1, 3 and Isaiah 1: 28. Notice that none of these verses refer to a spirit or soul that goes on forever being conscious of suffering.

How does stubble burn? It stops burning only after it burns everything that can be burned. So it will be with the wicked at the end. They are burned up in unquenchable fire. No one will put it out.

Zec 11:9 - NASB

Then I said, "I will not pasture you. What is to die, let it die, and what is to be annihilated, let it be annihilated; and let those who are left eat one another's flesh ."

Job 31:12 -

For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

Eze 28:18 -

By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.

Am 5:6 -

"Seek the LORD that you may live, Or He will break forth like a fire, O house of Joseph, And it will consume with none to quench it for Bethel,

Isa 5:24 -

Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One

[jasd]

QR frame:

Soul? Spirit? let's define our terms.

Jn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Is Gd a soul?

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Umm, 'dividing? like in asunder - soul from spirit?'

And, that happens how? by the receiving of Holy Writ or by the spoken word of Gd?

[John317]

QR frame:

Soul? Spirit? let's define our terms.

Jn 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must

John 4: 24 is best and literally translated, "God is Spirit." God is inherently Spirit. He is not one spirit among many. He is Spirit Itself.

In terms of defining "soul" and "spirit," that is what we've doing throughout this thread. We're presenting Bible evidence either supporting or denying that they are immortal.

To review what has already been said:

The first occurrence of the word for soul, nephish, is in Gen. 1: 20, and it is there used in reference to the animals:

Quote:

Ge 1:20 -

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Ge 1:21 -

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ge 1:24 -

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Ge 1:30 -

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Next, we have nephish as that which man became when God breathed the breath (spirit) of life into dust that had been formed into human body:

Quote:

Ge 2:7 -

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Thus, the process of the creation of human life:

"Dust" + "breath of life"= living soul (or nephish, or being, or creature).

Therefore, humans are themselves living souls or living nephish. That is exactly how Gen. 12: 5 and 14: 21 use the word.

The process of death, described in Ps. 104: 30, 29, is the reverse of creation:

Living soul - "breath of life"= dust (or dead nephish, or dead soul)

See Gen. 3: 19 where God told Adam and Eve, "You shall return unto dust."

Numbers 9: 6 refers to a dead body or dead person. The Hebrew is "dead nephish."

Notice below that humans are called nephish:

Quote:

Ge 12:5 -

And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

Ge 14:21 -

And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

The same words used to describe humans as "living nephish" are also used to refer to animals:

Quote:

Ge 2:19 -

And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Ge 9:10 -

And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

Ge 9:12 -

And God said, This is the token of the covenant whichI make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

Ge 9:15 -

AndI will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Ge 9:16 -

And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

"Soul" and "spirit" are used 1700 times in the Bible, and never once are they described as immortal before the Second Coming of Christ.

Nephish and psuche (soul and spirit) never convey the idea of something that lives apart from man's body, that never dies. These are not immortal or indestructible.

When man was first created, he was able to die (Gen 2: 17), but it was not necessary. Man came under the dominion of death only after he sinned. Ezekiel 18: 4, 20: "The soul [nephish] that sins, it shall die."

[John317]

QR frame:

Spirit? let's define our terms.

Strong's #7307-- ruwach

Translated Words

KJV (378) - Spirit or spirit, 232; air, 1; anger, 1; blast, 4; breath, 27; cool, 1; courage, 1; mind, 5; misc, 6; side, 6; vain, 2; wind, 92;

NAS (375) - Spirit, 76; air, 2; anger, 1; blast, 2; breath, 31; breathless, 1; cool, 1; courage, 1; despondency, 1; exposed, 1; grief, 1; heart, 1; inspired, 1; mind, 3; motives, 1; points, 1; quick-tempered, 1; side, 4; sides, 2; spirit, 127; spirits, 3; strength, 1; temper, 2; thoughts, 1; trustworthy, 1; wind, 98; winds, 7; windy, 2; wrath, 1;

Its occurrence in Genesis:

Ruwach

Translated Words

Spirit or spirit, air, anger, blast, breath, cool, courage, mind, misc, side, vain, wind

The KJV Strong's Version - 11 Verses

Ge 1:2 -And darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Ge 3:8 -

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Ge 6:3 -

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Ge 6:17 -

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Ge 7:15 -

And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Ge 7:22 -

All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Ge 8:1 -

And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

Ge 26:35 -

Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah.

Ge 41:8 -

And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.

Ge 41:38 -

And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

Ge 45:27 -

And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:

[John317]

When an individual dies, what happens to his thoughts?

Verse Display - Strong's Number: 6250

Transliterated Word

`eshtonah

Translated Word

thoughts

The NAS Strong's Version - 1 Verse

Ps 146:4 -

His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

Was "the breath of life," which God beathed into the nostrils of Adam, conscious or immortal? No.

Consciousness was the result of the union of breath with the body. That is when man "became a living soul." When this union does not exist, whatever may remain, it is certain that consciousness does not remain. Just as consciousness is the result of God uniting the breath and the body, so when God takes away the breath from the body, the consciousness is gone.

As the above verse says,

Ps 146:4 - NASB

His spirit [breath; ruwach] departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

Ps 104:29 -

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath [ruwach], they die, and return to their dust.

Ec 12:7 -

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [breath; ruwach] shall return unto God who gave it.

What does Ecc. 12: 7 mean?

1) Notice that it speaks of the spirit of all-- both of the good as well as of the wicked.

2) It does not imply that this spirit is conscious or has a will or that it is immortal.

3) But if we compare Ecc. 12: 7 with Gen. 2: 7, it becomes obvious that this spirit, or breath, that God gave us, was not conscious apart from the body. The consciousness ends when God separates the breath and takes it back to Himself and the body returns to dust.

Note Ps. 104: 30, 29--

v. 30-- You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;

And You renew the face of the earth.

29 You hide Your face, they are troubled;

You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.

We depend on God alone for life. We have no innate, inherent life in us apart from Christ. Our dependence must be placed totally in Him. Acts 17: 28 says we owe our every breath and moment of life and our consciousness to God.

The life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind is IN God hand.

John 12: 10 (margin).

[John317]

Quote:

HUMBLE-- The resurrection is the great fulfillment of the end of time' date=' [/quote']

Study the following links:

http://www.worldincrisis.org/Harvestime-Books/Bible%20Readings%20for%20the%20Home%20Circle.pdf

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/pioneerwritings.html

[Lineman]

Norman wrote:

Hi BibleShockers,

the passage is not difficult to understand when you keep it in context. Take it alone as you have posted and it can be confusing.

Here a context verse. 1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Then after proving that Christ is raised from the dead he asks the rhetorical question, Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Co 15:29

The dead in this verse is referring to Christ. I'll reword it: If Christ has not been raised from the dead then why are we being baptized for a dead person?

Then he goes on to explain the futility of living if Christ in not raised fro the dead.

1Co 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die.

It's really not too difficult to understand if we use truth as a foundation and match it with the plan of salvation.

Norman

This may be the best I have ever heard on this topic. Norman wrote, “The dead in this verse is referring to Christ. I'll reword it: If Christ has not been raised from the dead then why are we being baptized for a dead person?” This same thing can be worded just a little differently by saying, “If Christ has not been raised from the dead then why are we being baptized in the name of a dead person?”

B Humble wrote:

The fact is: Adventism teaches that the soul is dormant or unconscious and has no self awareness and unable to be aware of anything, which is THE VERY SAME THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE "DESTROYED" or annihilated. There is not one whit of difference between the two. So for all your discussion of Greek words, it doesn't make a hill of beans. There is not one whit of difference between being annihilated and being so "soul sleeped" that you have no awareness. Accordingly, any mean spirited man can do exactly what Christ can do to you...send you to a place where you have no self awareness.

B Humble wrote, “There is not one whit of difference between the two.” I beg to differ; there is a BIG difference between the two. I see the soul as being like a blue print of each person. As long as God has that blue print HE can recreate each and every one of us. When God destroys that blue print, IOW when the soul, is “destroyed or annihilated”, there is no chance to recreate anyone.

Later you wrote: “The soul is an image of the body”. Like a blue print of the human body?

B Humble wrote:

I'm glad to see that you admitted there is no difference for all practical purposes between Christ's punishment and the punishment of man, except that Man's torment could afflict pain upon a man for a very long, while Christ's punishment will scarcely be felt.

I did not read any such belief by John, but I notice that you keep talking about the destruction of the wicked as being “scarcely” felt. It is not the Bible’s teaching, nor SDA teaching (and I am sure not John’s beliefs either) that God will destroy the wicked in an instant. In fact, it is believed that Satan will suffer the longest and will not be consumed for a very long time. Doesn’t sound like he will scarcely feel any pain to me.

B Humble wrote:

I would not expect a darkened mind with teachings of soul sleep originated in atheism to find "truth" in what I teach. Darkness does not like the light and seeks to shut it out.

“What I teach”? Are you upset because we do not appear to listen to you? And where in the world did you get this idea: “with teachings of soul sleep originated in atheism”? It certainly did not come from the Bible.

B Humble wrote:

More Reasons why Sheol can't be the grave:

Conscious Emotions in Sheol

God's judgement on the wicked does not cease when the wicked die in their sins. Thus some of the spirits in Sheol experience the following

a. God's anger (Deut. 32:22): According to Moses, the wicked experience the fire of YHWH's anger in the "lowest parts of Sheol." This passage would make no sense if the wicked are nonexistent and Sheol is the grave.

b. Distress (Ps. 116:3): The Hebrew word matzar refers to the distress that is felt when in the straits of a difficulty. It is found in this sense in Ps. 118:5. Also, the word chevel, which is the poetic parallel for matzar, means "cords of distress" (2 Sam. 22:6; Ps. 18:6).

c. Writhing in pain (Job 26:5): The Hebrew word chool means to twist and turn in pain like a woman giving birth.

It is obvious that nonexistence can hardly experience anger, distress or pain. Thus, there are hints in the above passages that not everyone experiences blessedness in the afterlife. Beyond these three passages, the Old Testament does not speak of torment in the intermediate state. While it speaks of the "everlasting humiliation and contempt" which awaits the wicked after the resurrection (Dan. 12:2), the Old Testament tells us very little about the intermediate suffering of the wicked in Sheol. (Death and The Afterlife, Robert Morey, p. 78-80)

Job 26:5-6 "The departed spirits tremble Under the waters and their inhabitants. "Naked is Sheol before Him. And Abaddon has no covering. pain

The spirits of the dead are twisting and turning in pain. Exactly like Luke 16 and the rich man It appears my friend that we have the same understanding of what will happen in hell. The wicked will be twisting and turning in pain, but once the fire goes out and the 2nd death comes that all will stop.

I hate to do this because I have only read the first 15 pages of posts so far, but I have to leave and so will post my comments so far. (That’s what happens when you don’t keep up on what is being said I guess.) Sorry.

Blessings to all,

Dan

[createsjg]

sorry for the delayed response but they had a BIG baptismal--beyond that we didn't get graphic details

[createsjg]

Get out your Strong's and do a word search and read the texts in context. Better yet read the Bible through and do it yearly and you will see the themes. You not only need to know how some words like "nephesh" and "ruach", "peuma" are translated and used but also need to understand words like "consume". When we read things in English we can put our own meanings to the words. When we read them out of context we can put our own spin on them. It is best to remember that we are reading ancient texts written for a different society. That doesn't change the fundamental principles in the Bible but sometimes digging deeper brings better understanding for today. It may mean understanding the time of the recipients of the Word of God but also the constraints of the translators and their social bias.

[createsjg]

sorry for the delayed response but they had a BIG baptismal--beyond that we didn't get graphic details

This was in response for a previous post on Mormon baptism of the dead.