Baptized for the dead?

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

HADES

hades(86), "the region of departed spirits of the lost"

Give Bible verses to substantiate this. Where does the Bible call it the place where departed spirits of the lost go?

Please list the verses where this is stated.

No more long monologues, please, Humble. Just give the verses.

AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T READ MY REPLY, DID YOU? IF YOU HAD YOU WOULDN'T KEEP ASKING ME THE SAME QUESTIONS OVER AND OVER AND OVER.. THE ANSWERS ARE ALL THERE. GO BACK AND READ IT.

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL STILL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE...DO YOU??

SEE IF YOU CAN FIND THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

The Hebrew for "hell" in Ps. 9: 17 is Sheol, depth, the abyss, the grave, the realm of the dead. Strongs #7585. [/quote']

Strong??? You are depending upon Strong???? How laughable! Are you serious?

I am giving you the # of the word in Strong's Concordance so you can look up all the occurences of that word in the Bible.

You may also look up the word in any Hebrew lexicon aid and see the definition yourself.

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

I am giving you the # of the word in Strong's Concordance so you can look up all the occurences of that word in the Bible.

NO YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE, YOU'RE GIVING ME THE GREEK WORD TRANSLATED GRAVE. YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

Strong??? You are depending upon Strong???? How laughable! Are you serious? [/quote']

Quote:

AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL STILL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE...DO YOU??

Ps. 9: 17 is not in Greek. It is Hebrew and the word in Hebrew is Sheol. We're discussing the Psalms. In the LXX, it is Hades, also the place of the dead.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Strong??? You are depending upon Strong???? How laughable! Are you serious? [/quote']

I am giving you the # of the word in Strong's Concordance so you can look up all the occurences of that word in the Bible.

Quote:

NO YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE, YOU'RE GIVING ME THE GREEK WORD TRANSLATED GRAVE. YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE?

Do you know what Sheol is? What language is it?

Since we're discussing Ps. 9: 17, why would we be talking about the Greek word for grave? The Psalms are in Hebrew, of course, and not in Greek. Sheol is the Hebrew word from which "hell" is translated in Ps. 9: 17.

[B Humble]

20 reasons why "sheol" is not the grave and neither is hades.

1.While the kabar (to bury) is used in connection with kever it is never used in connection with Sheol. We can bury someone in a grave but we cannot bury anyone in Sheol (Gen. 23:4, 6, 9,19, 20; 49:30, 31, etc.).

2. While kever is found in its plural form "graves" (Ex. 14:11), the word Sheol is never pluralized.

3 While a grave is located at a specific site (Ex. 14:11), Sheol is never localized, because it is everywhere accessible at death no matter where the death takes place. No grave is necessary in order to go to Sheol.

4. While we can purchase or sell a grave (Gen. 23:4-20), Scripture never speaks of Sheol being purchased or sold.

5. While we can own a grave as personal property (Gen. 23:4-20), nowhere in scripture is Sheol owned by man.

6. While we can discriminate between graves and pick the "choicest site" (Gen. 23:6), nowhere in Scripture is a "choice" Sheol pitted against a "poor" Sheol.

7. While we can drop a dead body into a grave (Gen. 50:13), no one can drop anyone into Sheol.

8. While we can erect a monument over a grave (Gen. 35:20), Sheol is never spoken of as having monuments.

9. While we can, with ease, open or close a grave (2 Kings 23:16), Sheol is never opened or closed by man.

10.While we can touch a grave (Num. 19:18), no one is ever said in Scripture to touch Sheol.

11. While touching a grave brings ceremonial defilement (Num. 19:16), the Scriptures never speak of anyone being defiled by Sheol.

12. While we can enter and leave a tomb or grave (2 Kings 23:16), no one is ever said to enter and then leave Sheol.

13. While we can choose the site of our own grave (Gen. 23:4-9), Sheol is never spoken of as something we can pick and choose.

14. While we can remove or uncover the bodies or bones in a grave (2 Kings 23:16), the Scriptures never speak of man removing or uncovering anything in Sheol.

15. While we can beautify a grave with ornate carvings or pictures (Gen. 35:20), Sheol is never beautified by man.

16 While graves can be robbed or defiled (Jer. 8:1,2), Sheol is never spoken of as being robbed or defiled by man.

17 While a grave can be destroyed by man (Jer. 8:1,2), nowhere in Scripture is man said to be able to destroy Sheol.

18. While a grave can be full, Sheol is never full (Prov. 27:20).

19. While we can see a grave, Sheol is always invisible.

20. While we can visit the graves of loved ones, nowhere in Scripture is man said to visit Sheol.

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

Strong??? You are depending upon Strong???? How laughable! Are you serious? [/quote']

Quote:

AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL STILL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE...DO YOU??

Ps. 9: 17 is not in Greek. It is Hebrew and the word in Hebrew is Sheol. We're discussing the Psalms. In the LXX, it is Hades, also the place of the dead.

NEITHER IS SHEOL, READ MY ABOVE REPLY. AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK OR THE HEBREW FOR THE WORD GRAVE, DO YOU?

[John317]

20 reasons why "sheol" is not the grave and neither is hades.

1.While the kabar (to bury) is used in connection with kever it is never used in connection with Sheol. We can bury someone in a grave but we cannot bury anyone in Sheol (Gen. 23:4, 6, 9,19, 20; 49:30, 31, etc.).

2. While kever is found in its plural form "graves" (Ex. 14:11), the word Sheol is never pluralized.

3 While a grave is located at a specific site (Ex. 14:11), Sheol is never localized, because it is everywhere accessible at death no matter where the death takes place. No grave is necessary in order to go to Sheol...

Provide the original source or link for this information.

My friend Humble, all of these point do is show that Shoel is an abstract name for the grave and death. Is "death" localized? Can someone be buried in "death"? Where is "death"?

That doesn't help in proving that soul of man is immortal and burns forever.

Is this one of your best pieces of evidence?

Why not just post all the verses you use in giving a Bible study on the subject of what happens when a man dies?

All I want to see are the Bible verses. If the Bible teaches what you claim, the verses themselves alone should be enough to show it.

[B Humble]

Grave: THE GREEK WORD IS MNEEMA - IT MEANS THE GRAVE. THE HEBREW WORD IS KEVER - IT MEANS THE GRAVE.

1. There is a separate word for grave in both Hebrew and Greek in distinction from Sheol/Hades

2. Sheol is never translated as mneema, which is the Greek word for grave. It is always translated as Hades which meant the underworld.

3. Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever)NOT SHEOL, in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9-10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well.

[John317]

NEITHER IS SHEOL, READ MY ABOVE REPLY. AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK OR THE HEBREW FOR THE WORD GRAVE, DO YOU?

Let's get back to talking about Ps. 9: 17. The Hebrew word is Sheol.

What does Sheol mean?

By the way, Humble, stay on the topic and do not make personal attacks.

Why the reference to 160 years?

Please clear your Personal Messages so I can contact you. It is very important. I need to speak with you.

[John317]

Grave: THE GREEK WORD IS MNEEMA - IT MEANS THE GRAVE. THE HEBREW WORD IS KEVER - IT MEANS THE GRAVE.

3. Isa. 14:19, the king is cast out of his grave (kever)NOT SHEOL, in order to be thrown into Sheol where the departed spirits can rebuke him (vv.9-10). In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well.

So then you must believe Is. 14: 8 is literally true also-- that the trees sing and rejoice.

Ever study literature, such as poetry? These things are obviously personifications. Trees don't sing. Neither do dead men.

Do you believe the dead can sing praises to God?

[B Humble]

Originally Posted By: B Humble

NEITHER IS SHEOL, READ MY ABOVE REPLY. AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK OR THE HEBREW FOR THE WORD GRAVE, DO YOU?

Let's get back to talking about Ps. 9: 17. The Hebrew word is Sheol.

What does Sheol mean?

By the way, Humble, stay on the topic and do not make personal attacks.

Why the reference to 160 years?

Please clear your Personal Messages so I can contact you. It is very important. I need to speak with you.

Ps.9:17 is not going to be any help for you, my friend. According to SDA theology the wicked AND THE RIGHTEOUS GO TO SHEOL.

[John317]

20 reasons why "sheol" is not the grave and neither is hades...

All these examples show is that there is a difference between certain words for "grave" and other words for the grave and death, such as sheol.

We often speak of "death" in the abstract, too. We don't bury you in death, do we? We can't purchase death but we can purchase a grave.

It's the same in Hebrew.

In any case, none of that helps us to understand the nature of man and whether man has an immortal soul or spirit.

[John317]

JOHN3:17-- Why the reference to 160 years?

Please clear your Personal Messages so I can contact you. It is very important. I need to speak with you.

Quote:

HUMBLE-- Ps.9:17 is not going to be any help for you, my friend. According to SDA theology the wicked AND THE RIGHTEOUS GO TO SHEOL.

Of course. Everyone who dies goes to what the Hebrews called "Sheol."

Have you studied the Hebrew-English Lexicon and lexicon aids? Look in them and tell me what they say is the meaning of Sheol.

Examine carefully every occurrence of the word sheol in the Old Testament. The we can talk about it.

[John317]

In this passage, Sheol and kever are opposites, not synonyms. This distinction is maintained in the Septuagint as well.

Tell me about Is. 14: 7, 8.

Also tell me about how the LXX translates Sheol and what it means there. Give me examples.

[John317]

The Nature of Man

And "God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.'" God did not speak into existence His crowning creation. Instead, He lovingly stooped to shape this new creature from the dust of the earth.

Earth's most creative sculptor could never carve out such a noble being. Perhaps a Michelangelo could fashion a stunning exterior, but what of the anatomy and physiology carefully designed for function, as well as for beauty? The perfect sculpture lay completed with every hair, eyelash, and nail in place, but God was not finished. This man was not to collect dust, but to live, to think, to create, and to grow in glory.

Stooping over this magnificent form, the Creator "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7; cf. 1:26). Realizing man's need for companionship, God made "him a helper comparable to him." God caused "a deep sleep" to come over Adam and, as Adam slept, God extracted one of Adam's ribs and made it into a woman (Gen. 2:18, 21, 22). "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "'Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.'" A garden home more splendid than the finest on earth today was given Adam and Eve. There were trees, vines, flowers, hills, valleys—all adorned by the Master Himself. Two special trees, the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, were there. God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat freely of every tree except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:8, 9, 17).

Thus the crowning event of Creation week was accomplished. And "God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good" (Gen. 1:31).

The Origin of Man

Though today many believe that human beings originated from the lower forms of animal life and are the result of natural processes that took billions of years, such an idea cannot be harmonized with the Biblical record. That human beings have been subject to a process of degeneration is crucial to the Biblical view of the nature of man.1

God Created Man. The origin of the human race is found in a divine council. God said, "'Let Us make man'" (Gen. 1:26). The plural "Us" refers to the trinitarian Godhead—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (see chapter 2 of this book). Of one purpose, then, God began to create the first human being (Gen. 1:27).

Created From the Dust of the Ground. God formed man from "the dust of the ground" (Gen. 2:7), using pre-existing matter but not other forms of life, such as marine or land animals. Not until He had formed every organ and put it in its place did He introduce the "breath of life" that made man a living person.

Created after a Divine Type. God created each of the other animals—fishes, birds, reptiles, insects, mammals, etc.—"according to its kind" (Gen. 1:21, 24, 25). Each species had a typical form of its own and the ability to reproduce its specific kind. Man, however, was created after the divine type, not after a type of the animal kingdom. God said, "'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness'" (Gen. 1:26). There is a clear discontinuity between human beings and the animal kingdom. Luke's genealogical entry describing the origin of the human race expresses this difference simply, but profoundly: "Adam, the son of God" (Luke 3:38).

Man's Exalted Position. The creation of man was the zenith of all Creation. God put man, created in the image of the sovereign God, in charge of Planet Earth and all animal life. L. Berkhof states of Adam, "It was his duty and privilege to make all the nature and all created beings that were placed under his rule, subservient to his will and purpose, in order that he and his whole glorious dominion might magnify the almighty Creator and Lord of the universe, Gen. 1:28; Ps. 8:4-9."2

The Unity of the Human Race. The genealogies in Genesis demonstrate that the successive generations after Adam and Eve all descended from this first pair. As humans, we all share the same nature, which constitutes a genetic or genealogical unity. Paul said, "'From one man he [God] made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth'" (Acts 17:26, NIV).

Furthermore, we see other indications of the organic unity of our race in the Biblical assertions that Adam's transgression brought sin and death upon all, and in the provision of salvation for all through Christ (Rom. 5:12, 19; 1 Cor. 15:21, 22).

[John317]

The Nature of Man--

The Unity of Man's Nature

What are the characteristic parts of human beings? Are they made up of several independent components, such as a body, a soul, and a spirit?

The Breath of Life. God "formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7).

When God changed the elements of earth into a living being, He "breathed" the "breath of life" into the nostrils of Adam's lifeless body. This breath of life is "the breath of the Almighty" that gives life (Job 33:4)—the spark of life. We might compare it with the streams of electricity that, when they flow through various electrical components, transform a quiet, gray panel of glass in a box into a pulsating splash of color and action—when we flip the switch on a color TV. The electricity brings sound and motion where once there was nothing.

Man—a Living Soul. What did the breath of life do? When God formed the human being from the elements of the earth, all the organs were present: the heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, spleen, brain, etc.—all perfect, but lifeless. Then God breathed into this lifeless matter the breath of life and "man became a living being."

The scriptural equation is straightforward: the dust of the ground (earth's elements) + the breath of life = a living being, or living soul. The union of earth's elements with the breath of life resulted in a living being, or soul. This "breath of life" is not limited to people. Every living creature possesses it. The Bible, for example, attributes the breath of life to both those animals that went into Noah's ark and those that did not (Gen. 7:15, 22).

The Hebrew term in Genesis 2:7 that has been translated "living being" or "living soul" is nephesh chayyah. This expression does not exclusively designate man, for it also refers to marine animals, insects, reptiles, and beasts (Gen. 1:20, 24; 2:19).

Nephesh, translated as "being" or "soul," comes from naphash, meaning "to breathe." Its Greek equivalent in the New Testament is psuche. "Inasmuch as breath is the most conspicuous evidence of life, nephesh basically designates man as a living being, a person."3 When used of animals, as in the Creation story, it describes them as living creatures that God created.

It is important to note that the Bible says that man became a living soul. Nothing in the Creation account indicates that man received a soul—some kind of separate entity that, at Creation was united with the human body.

An Indivisible Unity. The importance of the Creation account for properly understanding the nature of man cannot be overestimated. By stressing his organic unity, Scripture portrays man as a whole. How then do the soul and spirit relate to the nature of man?

1. The Biblical meaning of soul. As we have already mentioned, in the Old Testament "soul" is a translation of the Hebrew nephesh. In Genesis 2:7 it denotes man as a living being after the breath of life entered into a physical body formed from the elements of the earth. "Similarly, a new soul comes into existence whenever a child is born, each 'soul' being a new unit of life uniquely different, and separate, from other similar units. This quality of individuality in each living being, which constitutes it a unique entity, seems to be the idea emphasized by the Hebrew term nephesh. When used in this sense nephesh is not a part of the person; it is the person, and, in many instances, is translated 'person' (see Gen. 14:21; Num. 5:6; Deut. 10:22; cf. Ps. 3:2) or 'self' (Lev. 11:43; 1 Kings 19:4; Isa. 46:2; etc.).

"On the other hand, expressions such as 'my soul,' 'your soul,' 'his soul,' etc., are generally idioms for the personal pronouns 'I,' 'me,' 'you,' 'he,' etc. (see Gen. 12:13; Lev. 11:43, 44; 19:8; Joshua 23:11; Ps. 3:2; Jer. 37:9; etc.). In more than 100 of 755 occurrences in the Old Testament the KJV translates nephesh as 'life' (Gen. 9:4, 5; 1 Sam. 19:5; Job 2:4, 6; Ps. 31:13; etc.).

"Often nephesh refers to desires, appetites, or passions (cf. Deuteronomy 23:24; Proverbs 23:2; Ecclesiastes 6:7), and is sometimes translated 'appetite' (Prov. 23:2; Eccl. 6:7). It may refer to the seat of the affections (Gen. 34:3; S. of Sol. 1:7; etc.), and at times it represents the volitional part of man, as when translated 'pleasure' (KJV) in Deuteronomy 23:24; Psalm 105:22; Jeremiah 34:16. In Numbers 31:19 the nephesh is 'killed,' and in Judges 16:30 (translated 'me') it dies. In Numbers 5:2 ('the dead') and ch. 9:6 ('dead body') it refers to a corpse (cf. Lev. 19:28; Num. 9:7, 10).

"The usage of the Greek word psuche in the New Testament is similar to that of nephesh in the Old Testament. It is used of animal life as well as human life (Rev. 16:3). In the KJV it is translated forty times simply as 'life' or 'lives' (see Matt. 2:20; 6:25; 16:25; etc.). In some instances it is used to mean simply 'people' (see Acts 7:14; 27:37; Rom. 13:1, 1 Peter 3:20; etc.), and in others it is equivalent to the personal pronoun (see Matt. 12:18; 2 Cor. 12:15; etc.). Sometimes it refers to the emotions (Mark 14:34; Luke 2:35), to the mind (Acts 14:2; Phil. 1:27), or to the heart (Eph. 6:6)."4

The psuche is not immortal, but subject to death (Rev. 16:3). It can be destroyed (Matt. 10:28).

The Biblical evidence indicates that sometimes nephesh and psuche refer to the whole person and at other times to a particular aspect of man, such as the affections, emotions, appetites, and feelings. This usage, however, in no way shows that man is a being made up of two separate and distinct parts. The body and the soul exist together; together they form an indivisible union. The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body. There is no text that indicates that the soul survives the body as a conscious entity.

2. The Biblical meaning of spirit. Whereas the Hebrew word nephesh translated soul, denotes individuality or personality, the Old Testament Hebrew word ruach, translated spirit, refers to the energizing spark of life essential to individual existence. It stands for the divine energy, or life principle, that animates human beings.

"Ruach occurs 377 times in the Old Testament and most frequently is translated 'spirit,' 'wind,' or 'breath' (Gen. 8:1, etc.). It is also used to denote vitality (Judges 15:19), courage (Joshua 2:11), temper or anger (Judges 8:3), disposition (Isa. 54:6), moral character (Eze. 11:19), and the seat of the emotions (1 Sam. 1:15).

"In the sense of breath, the ruach of men is identical with the ruach of animals (Eccl. 3:19). The ruach of man leaves the body at death (Ps. 146:4) and returns to God (Eccl. 12:7; cf. Job 34:14). Ruach is used frequently of the Spirit of God, as in Isaiah 63:10. Never in the Old Testament, with respect to man, does ruach denote an intelligent entity capable of sentient existence apart from a physical body.

[John317]

The Nature of Man-- cont.

"The New Testament equivalent of ruach is pneuma, 'spirit,' from pneo, 'to blow,' or 'to breathe.' As with ruach, there is nothing inherent in the word pneuma denoting an entity in man capable of conscious existence apart from the body, nor does New Testament usage with respect to man in any way imply such a concept. In such passages as Romans 8:15; 1 Corinthians 4:21; 2 Timothy 1:7; 1 John 4:6 pneuma denotes 'mood,' 'attitude,' or 'state of feeling.' It is also used of various aspects of the personality, as in Galatians 6:1; Romans 12:11; etc. As with ruach, the pneuma is yielded to the Lord at death (Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59). Like ruach, pneuma is also used of the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:11, 14; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 2:4; 1 Peter 1:12; 2 Peter 1:21; etc.)."5

3. Unity of body, soul, and spirit. What is the relationship between body, soul, and spirit? What is the influence of this relationship on the unity of man?

a. A twofold union. Although the Bible views the nature of man as a unity, it does not precisely define the relationship between body, soul, and spirit. At times soul and spirit are used interchangeably. Notice their parallelism in Mary's expression of joy following the annunciation: "'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour'" (Luke 1:46, 47).

In one instance man is characterized by Jesus as body and soul (Matt. 10:28) and in another instance by Paul as body and spirit (1 Cor. 7:34). In the former soul refers to the higher faculty of man, presumably the mind, through which he communicates with God. In the latter spirit refers to this higher faculty. In both instances the body includes the physical, as well as the emotional, aspects of a person.

b. A threefold union. There is one exception to the general characterization of man as comprising a twofold union. Paul, who spoke of the twofold union of body and spirit, also spoke in terms of a threefold union. He states, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:23). This passage conveys Paul's desire that none of these aspects of the person be excluded from the sanctification process.

In this instance spirit may be understood as "the higher principle of intelligence and thought with which man is endowed, and with which God can communicate by His Spirit (see Rom. 8:16). It is by the renewing of the mind through the activities of the Holy Spirit that the individual is transformed into Christ's likeness (see Rom. 12:1, 2).

"By 'soul'. . . when distinguished from spirit, may be understood that part of man's nature that finds expression through the instincts, emotions, and desires. This part of one's nature can be sanctified, too. When, through the working of the Holy Spirit, the mind is brought into conformity with God's mind, and sanctified reason bears sway over the lower nature, the impulses, which would otherwise be contrary to God, become subject to His will."6

The body, which is controlled by either the higher or the lower nature, is the physical constitution—the flesh, blood, and bones.

Paul's sequence of first the spirit, then the soul, and finally the body is no coincidence. When the spirit is sanctified, the mind is under divine control. The sanctified mind, in turn, will have a sanctifying influence on the soul, i.e., the desires, feelings, and emotions. The person in whom this sanctification takes place will not abuse his body, so his physical health will flourish. Thus the body becomes the sanctified instrument through which the Christian can serve His Lord and Saviour. Paul's call for sanctification is clearly rooted in the concept of the unity of human nature and reveals that effective preparation for Christ's second advent necessitates the preparation of the whole person—spirit, soul, and body.

c. An indivisible, sympathetic union. It is clear that each human being is an indivisible unity. The body, soul, and spirit function in close cooperation, revealing an intensely sympathetic relationship between a person's spiritual, mental, and physical faculties. Deficiencies in one area will hamper the other two. A sick, impure, or confused spirit or mind will have a detrimental effect on one's emotional and physical health, as well. The reverse is also true. A weak, sick, or suffering physical constitution will generally impair one's emotional and spiritual health. The impact the faculties have on each other means that each individual has a God-given responsibility to maintain the faculties in the best possible condition. Doing so is a vital part of being restored into the image of the Creator.

Man in the Image of God

The living beings that God created on the sixth day of Creation were made "in the image of God" (Gen. 1:27). What does being created in God's image imply?

Created in the Image and Likeness of God. It is frequently suggested that human moral and spiritual dimensions reveal something about God's moral and spiritual nature. But since the Bible teaches that man comprises an indivisible unity of body, mind, and soul, man's physical features must also, in some way, reflect God's image. But isn't God a spirit? How could a spirit being be associated with any form or shape?

A brief study of the angels reveals that they, like God, are spiritual beings (Heb. 1:7, 14). Yet they always appear in human form (Gen. 18:1-19:22; Dan. 9:21; Luke 1:11-38; Acts 12:5-10). Could it be that a spiritual being may have a "spiritual body" with a form and features (cf. 1 Cor. 15:44)?

The Bible indicates that some people have seen parts of God's person. Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the seventy elders saw His feet (Ex. 24:9-11). Although He refused to show His face, after covering Moses with His hands God revealed His back to him as He passed by (Ex. 33:20-23). God appeared to Daniel in a judgment-scene vision as the Ancient of Days seated on a throne (Dan. 7:9, 10). Christ is described as "the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15) and "the express image of His person" (Heb. 1:3). These passages seem to indicate that God is a personal being and has a personal form. This should come as no surprise, for man was created in the image of God.

Man was created a "little lower than the angels" (Heb. 2:7), an indication that he must have been endowed with mental and spiritual gifts. Although Adam lacked experience, insight, and character development, he was made "upright" (Eccl. 7:29), a reference to moral uprightness.7 Being in the moral image of God, he was righteous, as well as holy (cf. Eph. 4:24), and was part of the Creation God pronounced "very good" (Gen. 1:31).

Since man was created in the moral image of God, he was given the opportunity to demonstrate his love and loyalty to his Creator. Like God, he had the power of choice—the freedom to think and act according to moral imperatives. Thus he was free to love and obey or to distrust and disobey. God risked man's making the wrong choice, because only with the freedom to choose could man develop a character that would fully display the principle of love that is the essence of God Himself (1 John 4:8). His destiny was to reach the highest expression of the image of God: to love God with all his heart, soul, and mind and to love others as himself (Matt. 22:36-40).

[John317]

Quote:

AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL STILL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK WORD FOR GRAVE...DO YOU??

Ps. 9: 17 is not in Greek. It is Hebrew and the word in Hebrew is Sheol. We're discussing the Psalms. In the LXX, it is Hades, also the place of the dead.

Quote:

NEITHER IS SHEOL, READ MY ABOVE REPLY. AFTER 160 + YEARS YOU ALL DON'T KNOW THE GREEK OR THE HEBREW FOR THE WORD GRAVE, DO YOU?

As the moderator, I need to contact you and I can only do it if you clear your Private mail box. Please do it as soon as possible. I tried several times to send you a private message.

[John317]

My friend, Humble,

Why not just post all the verses you use in giving a Bible study on the subject of what happens when a man dies?

If the Bible teaches what you claim it teaches, the verses themselves alone should be enough to show it.

Would you care to study the verses in the Bible which teach the non-immortality of the wicked and that we sleep unconsciously in the grave until God resurrects us?

It seems to me that your whole reason for wanting the soul to be immortal is so that the wicked can be tortured endlessly. Is this true?

Do you believe God was unwise enough to make rebels and killers immortal so that their rebellion and hatred for God will never end?

The Bible does not teach this, but it teaches that God will finally bring a total end to sin and rebellion. He means to have a completely clean universe with no death or suffering or sin, and where total harmony reigns once again.

Don't you consider this better than having a universe where there will always be billions of people who hate God and curse Him and cry out in pain and agony?

Does God experience any pleasure from torturing billions of his intelligent creatures? Why do you believe He does it?

Explain in your own words and give Bible evidence.

[John317]

About Tyndale, Thomas More, himself a martyr said, "searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea", and charged Tyndale's translation of Obedience of a Christian Man with having about a thousand falsely translated errors.

Do you know the history of the Reformation and the history of how Tyndale translated the Bible?

Do you read the King James Version?

Thomas More was the man responsible for William Tyndale's being burned at the stake. Do you know who Thomas More was?

Quote:

Even at that, I would say that Tyndale himself, would pass out and die over the errors in the Clear Word bible.

The Clear Word bible is only outmatched by the JW's version. Well, maybe not outmatched, it's too close to call which is the most abominable.

The Clear Word, Humble, is a paraphrase, and the Introduction to the Clear Word explains that it is a paraphrase and is not intended for serious study of the Scriptures. It is similar to the Living Bible. They are like commentaries on the Bible.

The difference between the Clear Word and the New World Translation is that the latter claims to be the most accurate translation of the Bible, and the Clear Word does not. As I said, the Clear Word has a note at the beginning which tells the reader it is not a translation but a paraphrase. It is important to know the difference between a true translation and a paraphrase.

[B Humble]

The Nature of Man-- cont.

"The New Testament equivalent of ruach is pneuma, 'spirit,' from pneo, 'to blow,' or 'to breathe.' As with ruach, there is nothing inherent in the word pneuma denoting an entity in man capable of conscious existence apart from the body, nor does New Testament usage with respect to man in any way imply such a concept. In such passages as Romans 8:15; 1 Corinthians 4:21; 2 Timothy 1:7; 1 John 4:6 pneuma denotes 'mood,' 'attitude,' or 'state of feeling.' It is also used of various aspects of the personality, as in Galatians 6:1; Romans 12:11; etc. As with ruach, the pneuma is yielded to the Lord at death (Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59). Like ruach, pneuma is also used of the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:11, 14; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 2:4; 1 Peter 1:12; 2 Peter 1:21; etc.)."5

3. Unity of body, soul, and spirit. What is the relationship between body, soul, and spirit? What is the influence of this relationship on the unity of man?

a. A twofold union. Although the Bible views the nature of man as a unity, it does not precisely define the relationship between body, soul, and spirit. At times soul and spirit are used interchangeably. Notice their parallelism in Mary's expression of joy following the annunciation: "'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour'" (Luke 1:46, 47).

In one instance man is characterized by Jesus as body and soul (Matt. 10:28) and in another instance by Paul as body and spirit (1 Cor. 7:34). In the former soul refers to the higher faculty of man, presumably the mind, through which he communicates with God. In the latter spirit refers to this higher faculty. In both instances the body includes the physical, as well as the emotional, aspects of a person.

b. A threefold union. There is one exception to the general characterization of man as comprising a twofold union. Paul, who spoke of the twofold union of body and spirit, also spoke in terms of a threefold union. He states, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:23). This passage conveys Paul's desire that none of these aspects of the person be excluded from the sanctification process.

In this instance spirit may be understood as "the higher principle of intelligence and thought with which man is endowed, and with which God can communicate by His Spirit (see Rom. 8:16). It is by the renewing of the mind through the activities of the Holy Spirit that the individual is transformed into Christ's likeness (see Rom. 12:1, 2).

"By 'soul'. . . when distinguished from spirit, may be understood that part of man's nature that finds expression through the instincts, emotions, and desires. This part of one's nature can be sanctified, too. When, through the working of the Holy Spirit, the mind is brought into conformity with God's mind, and sanctified reason bears sway over the lower nature, the impulses, which would otherwise be contrary to God, become subject to His will."6

The body, which is controlled by either the higher or the lower nature, is the physical constitution—the flesh, blood, and bones.

Paul's sequence of first the spirit, then the soul, and finally the body is no coincidence. When the spirit is sanctified, the mind is under divine control. The sanctified mind, in turn, will have a sanctifying influence on the soul, i.e., the desires, feelings, and emotions. The person in whom this sanctification takes place will not abuse his body, so his physical health will flourish. Thus the body becomes the sanctified instrument through which the Christian can serve His Lord and Saviour. Paul's call for sanctification is clearly rooted in the concept of the unity of human nature and reveals that effective preparation for Christ's second advent necessitates the preparation of the whole person—spirit, soul, and body.

c. An indivisible, sympathetic union. It is clear that each human being is an indivisible unity. The body, soul, and spirit function in close cooperation, revealing an intensely sympathetic relationship between a person's spiritual, mental, and physical faculties. Deficiencies in one area will hamper the other two. A sick, impure, or confused spirit or mind will have a detrimental effect on one's emotional and physical health, as well. The reverse is also true. A weak, sick, or suffering physical constitution will generally impair one's emotional and spiritual health. The impact the faculties have on each other means that each individual has a God-given responsibility to maintain the faculties in the best possible condition. Doing so is a vital part of being restored into the image of the Creator.

Man in the Image of God

The living beings that God created on the sixth day of Creation were made "in the image of God" (Gen. 1:27). What does being created in God's image imply?

Created in the Image and Likeness of God. It is frequently suggested that human moral and spiritual dimensions reveal something about God's moral and spiritual nature. But since the Bible teaches that man comprises an indivisible unity of body, mind, and soul, man's physical features must also, in some way, reflect God's image. But isn't God a spirit? How could a spirit being be associated with any form or shape?

A brief study of the angels reveals that they, like God, are spiritual beings (Heb. 1:7, 14). Yet they always appear in human form (Gen. 18:1-19:22; Dan. 9:21; Luke 1:11-38; Acts 12:5-10). Could it be that a spiritual being may have a "spiritual body" with a form and features (cf. 1 Cor. 15:44)?

The Bible indicates that some people have seen parts of God's person. Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and the seventy elders saw His feet (Ex. 24:9-11). Although He refused to show His face, after covering Moses with His hands God revealed His back to him as He passed by (Ex. 33:20-23). God appeared to Daniel in a judgment-scene vision as the Ancient of Days seated on a throne (Dan. 7:9, 10). Christ is described as "the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15) and "the express image of His person" (Heb. 1:3). These passages seem to indicate that God is a personal being and has a personal form. This should come as no surprise, for man was created in the image of God.

Man was created a "little lower than the angels" (Heb. 2:7), an indication that he must have been endowed with mental and spiritual gifts. Although Adam lacked experience, insight, and character development, he was made "upright" (Eccl. 7:29), a reference to moral uprightness.7 Being in the moral image of God, he was righteous, as well as holy (cf. Eph. 4:24), and was part of the Creation God pronounced "very good" (Gen. 1:31).

Since man was created in the moral image of God, he was given the opportunity to demonstrate his love and loyalty to his Creator. Like God, he had the power of choice—the freedom to think and act according to moral imperatives. Thus he was free to love and obey or to distrust and disobey. God risked man's making the wrong choice, because only with the freedom to choose could man develop a character that would fully display the principle of love that is the essence of God Himself (1 John 4:8). His destiny was to reach the highest expression of the image of God: to love God with all his heart, soul, and mind and to love others as himself (Matt. 22:36-40).

Would that be your version of a "monologue" ?

[B Humble]

My friend, Humble,

Why not just post all the verses you use in giving a Bible study on the subject of what happens when a man dies?

If the Bible teaches what you claim it teaches, the verses themselves alone should be enough to show it.

Would you care to study the verses in the Bible which teach the non-immortality of the wicked and that we sleep unconsciously in the grave until God resurrects us?

It seems to me that your whole reason for wanting the soul to be immortal is so that the wicked can be tortured endlessly. Is this true?

Do you believe God was unwise enough to make rebels and killers immortal so that their rebellion and hatred for God will never end?

The Bible does not teach this, but it teaches that God will finally bring a total end to sin and rebellion. He means to have a completely clean universe with no death or suffering or sin, and where total harmony reigns once again.

Don't you consider this better than having a universe where there will always be billions of people who hate God and curse Him and cry out in pain and agony?

Does God experience any pleasure from torturing billions of his intelligent creatures? Why do you believe He does it?

Explain in your own words and give Bible evidence.

[Stan]

B Humble?

Why do you call your self Humble? Is that your actual last name?

You come across as arrogant and all things not humble.