Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?

[John317]

Concerning the Sabbath, Luther said: “If Carlstadt keeps on he will have us observing Sunday on Saturday.” So Luther admitted that the fourth commandment had to do with Saturday. But he said that it was not binding on the Christian because it did not belong to the natural law (i.e., you shall not kill, commit adultery, etc.)

Carlstadt was right, and Luther wrong.

The Bible, the Spirit of prophecy, and Jack Sequeira all show that the law of God is the standard of the Christian life. That includes the 7th day Sabbath.

The idea is that you don't only obey God because your "human reasoning" tells you to do it. We walk by faith, not by sight. We don't wait until human reasons confirms the Word before we obey God's commandments. We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Quote:

Now Ellen White said Luther would be in heaven, yet he rejected the Sabbath because he said it wasn't transferred to the NC. You might disagree with him, but apparently the 4th commandment isn't an issue of salvation as you try to make it.

Of course Luther was wrong about that. There is no evidence that the Sabbath was not transferred to the NC.

The Spirit of prophecy takes up that issue about Luther's rejection of the Sabbath and the implications of it. I'm sure you know what it says.

Can we assume that because there are people who will be saved who did not keep the Sabbath, that it doesn't matter?

Quote:

The Sabbath is really an end-time symbol. Until the gospel is fully restored folks will continue to misunderstand the Sabbath on both sides. The Adventist makes it an issue of salvation. Naturally the Sunday-keeper rejects this notion as legalistic.

It's true that the Sabbath becomes important in the end-times because it is the special point of contention. NOW IS THE END-TIMES. You are living in the end-times.

Are you going to wait until the gospel is fully restored before you begin telling people about the Sabbath?

[Reddogs]

If only you dudes pushed agape love (a love without self-love) as much as you pushed the Sabbath.

Gods love gave us the gift of the Sabbath, its like your true love whom you love and adore comes along and says 'keep this gold pin as symbol of my love as you go about your day'. Do we then walk away and toss her gift in the nearest waste bin and go check out the girls at South Beach and see if we can hook up and get a 'gift' from whomever you can pick up, I think not....

Many claim they love Christ, but saying it and actually having true love in your heart that gives you joy and contentment are two different things....

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Why did God rest that first Sabbath?

Because He had completed the creation of the world and mankind.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

If only you dudes pushed agape love (a love without self-love) as much as you pushed the Sabbath.

Gods love gave us the gift of the Sabbath, its like your true love whom you love and adore comes along and says 'keep this gold pin as symbol of my love as you go about your day'. Do we then walk away and toss her gift in the nearest waste bin and go check out the girls at South Beach and see if we can hook up and get a 'gift' from whomever you can pick up, I think not....

Many claim they love Christ, but saying it and actually having true love in your heart that gives you joy and contentment are two different things....

Human feeling...emotions, not what the Genesis' account says. Sorry, try again!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Concerning the Sabbath, Luther said: “If Carlstadt keeps on he will have us observing Sunday on Saturday.” So Luther admitted that the fourth commandment had to do with Saturday. But he said that it was not binding on the Christian because it did not belong to the natural law (i.e., you shall not kill, commit adultery, etc.)

Carlstadt was right, and Luther wrong.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Because He had completed the creation of the world and mankind.

He rested' date=' John, because His work of creation was perfect...it was finished. You just can't get those words out, can you?

[/quote']

Of course God made a perfect world. I had said that already.

See post #186830--

Quote:

When I rest as God rested-- that is, when I rest from my work as He rested from His work-- I am stating that I agree that God created a perfect world. I am also stating that I believe a time is coming when I will have eternal rest in a perfect world of the future.

But the fact that the world is no longer "perfect" does not destroy the meaning of Sabbath as far as its being a memorial is concerned, according to the Bible. The Bible does not teach that anywhere.

When was this idea first conceived as far as you know? How far back in church history can you trace this concept or teaching?

[Woody]

Quote:

That's not the way Luther saw it. He refused Carlstadt's view. Ellen White states he will be in heaven.

Robert ... I looked up my list of those whom EGW says will be saved ... and I don't seem to have Luther on that list. Can you give me the reference so I can officially add him to the Saved List?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Carlstadt was right, and Luther wrong.[/quote']

That's not the way Luther saw it. He refused Carlstadt's view. Ellen White states he will be in heaven.

Of course it is not the way Luther saw it. No one is questioning that.

A lot of people with wrong ideas, including wrong ideas on the Sabbath, will be among the saved. They will also have some wrong ideas about virtually everything.

That only proves God's grace and love.

It doesn't mean that Bible teachings are not important, least of all that the Sabbath is not important.

If your grandfather thought something, does that mean you should think it-- just because he is perhaps going to be in heaven despite his wrong ideas? That's foolishness, isn't it? The same applies to Luther.

Think how wonderful it would have been if Luther had accepted the Sabbath and taught it at that time.

The important thing that Luther did was he directed people's mind's to Christ and the Word of God, rather than to church traditions, ceremonies, church councils and popes. That is what God had intended him to do and he did it. He will be among the saved because of God's grace and because Luther placed his faith in Christ. Remember that we are held accountable for what we know to be right. You and I know the Sabbath is right, and Luther didn't. That makes a big difference.

[John317]

[John317]

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

.... Can we assume that because there are people who will be saved who did not keep the Sabbath, that it doesn't matter?

IT will become an issue as the gospel is restored.

I believe that if you study the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy on this topic, you will see that the Sabbath is important now. The Sabbath truth is needed in order to have a clear picture and understanding of the gospel. So is the truth about the Investigative Judgment.

For instance, the doctrine of the IJ will keep a person from accepting the false view of "once saved, always saved."

The Sabbath truth is needed because it shows us more clearly who God is-- Creator and redeemer-- and it is a weekly reminded of exactly who God is and what He means in our lives.

The Sabbath, moreover, gives us 24 hours a week devoted totally to our personal relationship with Him and therefore becomes an important part of His writing the law on our hearts and minds. It has to do with sanctifying us, setting us apart for His use throughout the remaining 6 days of the week.

The Sabbath is also the seal of the law of God. It demonstrates true faith because there is no reason to keep the Sabbath except on the basis of God's command. No one would keep it because of human reason alone. You can't arrive at the Sabbath through nature or through human reasoning. It comes from God's word only.

Quote:

JOHN3:17-- It's true that the Sabbath becomes important in the end-times because it is the special point of contention.

Quote:

ROBERT-- No, that's not the issue.

I'm saying the issue is about obedience to God and worship of the Creator, as opposed to obedience to man and worship of the creature. THAT IS THE ISSUE EVEN NOW, TODAY, THIS VERY MOMENT IN TIME.

Quote:

JOHN3:17-- NOW IS THE END-TIMES. You are living in the end-times.

Quote:

ROBERT-- Maybe, but we are not living in the time when the gospel has been fully restored. For example, the gospel you present isn't genuine. Only the "in Christ" truth is the true gospel. The church hasn't accepted it yet. Before the gospel is fully restored there'll be a shaking. The legalists will reject the message and join Babylon, towards who their sympathies have been tending....

The gospel is being restored now. It has been in the process of being restored since about the beginning of the 1800s. It started happening about the same time that the papacy virtually collapsed in 1798. About that same time, people started studying the book of Daniel more intensely and others began to rediscover the Bible teachings on the Second Coming, the Sabbath, and the state of the dead. The Reformation began the process by getting large numbers to accept the doctrine of justification by faith, but that was only the beginning of the full restoration of the gospel. I believe that the Spirit of prophecy is an important part of that restoration process, as is the preaching of the Three Angels Messages, which includes the Pre-Advent Judgment that is going on right now and will end shortly before the Second Coming.

Quote:

JOHN3:17-- Are you going to wait until the gospel is fully restored before you begin telling people about the Sabbath?

Quote:

ROBERT-- Yes...they need the gospel.

It is being restored now and that the Sabbath is an important part of that restoration process. I think it is passing you by because you resist it and refuse to study and accept the Spirit of prophecy. Why did God give the Spirit of prophecy to God's last-day church?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

... God wanted a special time for mankind to rest, consider what the Creator had done, and meet with Him in order to become better acquainted.

Sorry, totally out of context. It simply doesn't say that. Come on John, I thought SDA were above making things up. Apparently not!

The Bible clearly implies this in the language and the Spirit of prophecy states it plainly. But sadly, you apparently only accept the Spirit of prophecy when it supports something you like.

[Woody]

Quote:

But sadly, you apparently only accept the Spirit of prophecy when it supports something you like.

From what I have observed ... the same can be said of you John317.

[John317]

Quote:

But sadly, you apparently only accept the Spirit of prophecy when it supports something you like.

From what I have observed ... the same can be said of you John317.

Tell me where I am doing that. Let's talk about it.

[Robert]

But the fact that the world is no longer "perfect" does not destroy the meaning of Sabbath as far as its being a memorial is concerned, according to the Bible.

You mean according to John?

Again...oh boy...why did God rest? Did He sleep? No! His rest was a perpetual rest. He never started working again until the fall of mankind. His rest on the 7th day is symbolic in the sense that it points to "His rest". Specially "His rest" in a perfect creation. The fact that He stopped resting is proof that the Sabbath of creation no longer is significant.

John 5:16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath [i.e., working for folks who were suffering as a result of the fall] , the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

But the fact that the world is no longer "perfect" does not destroy the meaning of Sabbath as far as its being a memorial is concerned, according to the Bible.

You mean according to John?

No. It is the meaning of the Sabbath according to Exodus 20, Gen. 2: 1-3, the Spirit of prophecy, and the Seventh-day Adventist church. It is also what is said in virtually all systematic theologies. None of the above teach that the Fall meant the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation was destroyed.

So far as I know it is only something that a few people teach, such as Jack Sequeira and some of his followers. Is this true?

Quote:

ROBERT-- Again...oh boy...why did God rest? Did He sleep? No!

I agree with you about the fact that God did not rest because He was tired. I don't know of anyone who says God rested because He got tired. We've been over this point many times.

Quote:

ROBERT--His rest was a perpetual rest. He never started working again until the fall of mankind. His rest on the 7th day is symbolic in the sense that it points to "His rest". Specially "His rest" in a perfect creation.

Even if it is granted that everything you said here is true, it would not show that the Sabbath is no longer a reminder that God created the world and that it was perfect on that first Sabbath. The Fall does not change that aspect of the Sabbath. In fact, if anything it means it is even more important for us to take time every week to remember that perfect world, and to realize that we will have that perfect world again one day.

Quote:

ROBERT-- The fact that He stopped resting is proof that the Sabbath of creation no longer is significant.[size:14pt]

I don't agree. I don't believe that is what the Bible teaches, and it clearly contradicts the Spirit of prophecy, as you well know.

Do you know of other Christians, besides Jack Sequeira and his followers, who believe this about the Sabbath?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

IT will become an issue as the gospel is restored.

I believe that if you study the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy on this topic, you will see that the Sabbath is important now. The Sabbath truth is needed in order to have a clear picture and understanding of the gospel. So is the truth about the Investigative Judgment. [/quote']

Really? You must be thinking through the eyes of Ellen White, right? Well, should I quote her statement that says many things to learn, and many, many things to unlearn? I guess not....

Let's see if you are right about what you said?

"And this [sabbath] of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

No, I think that's wrong for it says, "And this GOSPEL...."

Does that help?

Quote:

The Sabbath truth is needed because it shows us more clearly who God is-- Creator and redeemer-- and it is a weekly reminded of exactly who God is and what He means in our lives.

Totally untrue! The gospel - the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ shows us clearly who Jesus was and is....

He who has seen [the Sabbath] has seen the Father....

Is that what Jesus said? No!

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’? “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me?

Clearly the life of Christ, as witnessed in the NT, is how we learn of Christ.

Quote:

The Sabbath, moreover, gives us 24 hours a week devoted totally to our personal relationship with Him and therefore becomes an important part of His writing the law on our hearts and minds. It has to do with sanctifying us, setting us apart for His use throughout the remaining 6 days of the week.

More fictional, non-Biblical nonsense. We need to, by faith, die daily to self - not just on the 7th day....

Quote:

The Sabbath is also the seal of the law of God. It demonstrates true faith because there is no reason to keep the Sabbath except on the basis of God's command.

Oh boy...Don't think - don't ask God questions, folks! Forget about "come (says the Lord) let us reason together" - instead John presents God thus:

"I'm God! Do as I say or I'll kill you."

No thanks....This is more of George Bush scare tactics.

Quote:

I'm saying the issue is about obedience to God and worship of the Creator, as opposed to obedience to man and worship of the creature. THAT IS THE ISSUE EVEN NOW, TODAY, THIS VERY MOMENT IN TIME.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...and heck no!

Nothing in the Genesis or Exodus account, in dealing with the Sabbath, deals with worship. That false assumption gets old....Repeating it doesn't make it so.

Quote:

It is being restored now and that the Sabbath is an important part of that restoration process. I think it is passing you by because you resist it and refuse to study and accept the Spirit of prophecy. Why did God give the Spirit of prophecy to God's last-day church?

So folks like yourseld could gloat and get all self-righteous with us regular folks (sinners). I especially love how you legalists hit folks over the head with those "little red books". I started wearing a helmet.

You know, when I get to the gate (figuratively speaking), St. Pete isn't going to ask me if I read Ellen White or if I obeyed Ellen White. Nope, he's going to ask me what I did with Jesus Christ. And I'll say, "by faith this old sinner accepted His righteousness." And Pete will say, "Come on in."

Rob

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Sorry, totally out of context. It simply doesn't say that. Come on John, I thought SDA were above making things up. Apparently not!

The Bible clearly implies this in the language[/quote']

No, more like your theology implies it....

Quote:

and the Spirit of prophecy states it plainly.

The SOP must be your Bible, huh? Can you say, "cult"? I can....

Quote:

But sadly, you apparently only accept the Spirit of prophecy when it supports something you like.

Yeah, like the Bible!

[Robert]

No. It is the meaning of the Sabbath according to Exodus 20, Gen. 2: 1-3, the Spirit of prophecy, and the Seventh-day Adventist church. It is also what is said in virtually all systematic theologies. None of the above teach that the Fall meant the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation was destroyed.

[Robert]

...the question may be raised, “What about Sabbath and Sunday?” You know, we talk of Sabbath as the seal of God, and we talk of Sunday as being the mark of the beast.

There are some facts that we must be clear on. These two days represent two different systems. And we must be clear that those two systems are not yet clearly separating the world today. Let me explain what I mean. We have seen that righteousness by faith is God’s way of salvation. Righteousness by works is man’s way. Now, the Sabbath is not yet the seal of God and Sunday is not yet the mark of the beast because these two days have not as yet been linked with these two concepts. There’s still confusion.

There are today many Sunday-keeping Christians who are resting in Christ. And there are Sabbath-keeping people who are resting in their works, too. So there is still confusion today. But when the Three Angels’ Message is clearly presented, and linked with these two days, then folks, then only will these two days represent two systems. So, firstly, please don’t ever accuse the Sunday-keeping people today of the mark of the beast. Secondly, please remember that those days simply represent a truth. It’s the truth that is at issue.

But before the end comes, the Sabbath will be clearly linked with righteousness by faith and Sunday will clearly represent those who are resting in their own works. That is not yet true today. Today there is confusion. There is misunderstanding.JS

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

No. It is the meaning of the Sabbath according to Exodus 20, Gen. 2: 1-3, the Spirit of prophecy, and the Seventh-day Adventist church. It is also what is said in virtually all systematic theologies. None of the above teach that the Fall meant the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation was destroyed.

Wow, you must be right....I mean look at your list:

1] The Bible

2] Ellen White

3] The SDA church

As if all these are one and the same. I think not! The Bible, and the Bible only....Well, you know the rest of that good quote. Not the SDA church...not Ellen White, but the Bible. Comprehend?

The Bible alone does not teach that the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of Creation was destroyed. The only one you can quote on that subject to mean what you are saying is Jack Sequeira. He concludes that it was destroyed but you yourself know that there is not a single verse in Scripture which says that.

But I guess we'll just have to leave it at that. We can agree to not agree. We have so many other things that we agree on.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

So far as I know it is only something that a few people teach, such as Jack Sequeira and some of his followers. Is this true?

Oh, I get it....Your list is bigger than mine? How childish, John.....

Since when are questions of the origin of theological concepts and teachings "childish"?

Why don't you answer the question about this?

If you asked me a question of this kind, I would be glad to tell you. For instance, if you asked me about who believes in the Investigative Judgment or where the idea came from, who were the first to have these views-- I would answer them. Why don't you?

Quote:

JOHN3:17-- Do you know of other Christians, besides Jack Sequeira and his followers, who believe this about the Sabbath?

Quote:

ROBERT-- Oh, back to the numbers game? "I have more people who believe like I do then you....Na, na, na....."

Again, childish questions, John.

OK. It is obvious you either don't know or can't answer or just won't answer-- for whatever reason.

It's not a number's game, however. It is a question that anyone interested in theology would want to know, because it has to do with the origin of a teaching. In this, there are virtually no Christian theologians or serious students of the Bible who agree that the Fall destroyed the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation. I am giving you opportunity to show evidence that this is wrong if you know of any.

But I can fully understand why you'd want to make it appear it's a "childish number's game."

[Robert]

In this, there are virtually no Christian theologians or serious students of the Bible who agree that the Fall destroyed the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation.

So I am not a serious Bible student? Hmmm, how nice that you can just discount me that way. Well, the truth still stands and you can not refute my point.

The Genesis account undeniably states that God rested because His work was perfect and complete. When Adam fell the Sabbath wasn't done away with, but the reason why one kept it changed.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

....Even if it is granted that everything you said here is true, it would not show that the Sabbath is no longer a reminder that God created the world and that it was perfect on that first Sabbath.

Quote:

ROBERT--But...our resting as God rested becomes a contradiction. He rested because His work was perfect/complete. If I rest the Sabbath, as it points to creation, I then outwardly agree that God's work is perfect. Well, it is not for it is fallen. So my Sabbath rest is both a contradiction and meaningless.

Does it say you must rest because it is still a perfect world? Does it say you must rest for exactly the same reason that God rested at that time?

It talks about ceasing from your works, as God did from his. Heb. 4: 10. It means "like" or "similarly," not "identically."

Compare the use of "as" or "just as" in Hebrews 4: 2. "For good news came to us just as to them." It says that we have had the good news preached to us "just as" the children of Israel had it preached to them. Does that mean it was preached in every detail just exactly the same way? No-- that is foolishness.

Also Hebrews 4: 3 and 7-- for we do enter into the rest -- we who did believe, as He said, `So I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest -- ;' and yet the works were done from the foundation of the world,

7again He doth limit a certain day, `To-day,' (in David saying, after so long a time,) as it hath been said, `To-day, if His voice ye may hear, ye may not harden your hearts..."

Now look at Hebrews 4: 11. It obviously means that we can enter into God's rest right now. In fact, it does not put it in the future but in the past: "have rested," not "will rest." That proves clearly that the Sabbath's meaning was not changed by the Fall. It doesn't matter that the world is no longer perfect. We can still enter God's rest in the present. We don't have to wait until the world is perfect before we can enter God's rest as He did from His. How do we enter? It is by faith. Faith does not require that the world be in perfect condition before you accept God's invitation to enter God's rest. It is waiting even now for us to enter it. The ultimate fulfillment of God's rest that we enter will be in heaven and in the earth made new, but we certainly need not wait until that time in order to enter His rest by faith even today, NOW.

What does this show? It shows that it's ridiculous to take "as" or "just as" to mean the Fall destroyed the reason for keeping the Sabbath because the world is no longer perfect. Nowhere does the Bible say the meaning of the Sabbath was changed by the Fall. That argument is without valid Bible evidence, and this is the reason that it is not accepted.

I believe the teaching that the Fall destroyed the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of our Creator does not come from God but from the other power.

Consider that this doctrine flatly contradicts both the Word of God and the prophet of God whom the Lord sent to the church.

If you want to accept the word of a mere man, who does not even claim to be a prophet-- and if you want to accept his word over that of the clear meaning of Scripture as well as the plain words in the Spirit of prophecy-- well, all I can say is that we need to think very carefully before making that step. It's a slippery slope that can only lead down, not up.

Quote:

ROBERT--

Again (and you can't get this through your thick skull) the Sabbath always points to a finished work. Is God's creation finished? I hope not for right now it's a blooming mess.

Yes, the world that made and finished was invaded by sin. But where does the Bible say that this destroyed the meaning of the Sabbath? It actually made it more meaningful as it reminds us of that perfect world and of the future perfect world. It points us to the Creator God who made us. That cannot reasonably or Biblically be denied.

But I know the devil wants us to deny it. He hates Christ and God and would like humans to forget God is our creator. I am sure you agree with this.

Quote:

ROBERT-- The fact that He stopped resting is proof that the Sabbath of creation no longer is significant.[size:14pt]

I don't agree. I don't believe that is what the Bible teaches, and it clearly contradicts the Spirit of prophecy, as you well know.

Quote:

ROBERT-- Look, the SOP isn't the end all be all of truth. It isn't the measuring stick of truth. To make it so makes you and the church one huge cult.

Is that why you like to quote it? Is that why Jack Sequeira quotes it?

And you want me to accept Jack's and your word for it, above the plain Word of God and the Spirit of prophecy?

As for Ellen White, I know she was prophet of God, but as for this Jack S., I do not know him except as a man who teaches that Ellen White was a prophet of God.

So let us take the Bible and the prophet of God.

Look carefully at Hebrews 4:7-12 and see if the context or the language clearly means the Sabbath as a memorial is changed due to the Fall:

Quote:

7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:

“Today when you hear his voice,

don’t harden your hearts.”[a]

8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. 10 For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.

12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

Footnotes:

a) Hebrews 4:7 Ps 95:7-8.

Hebrews 4:9 Or a Sabbath rest.

New Living Translation (NLT)

Also compare Robert Young's Literal and the New American Standard Bible.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

In this, there are virtually no Christian theologians or serious students of the Bible who agree that the Fall destroyed the meaning of the Sabbath as a memorial of creation.

So I am not a serious Bible student? Hmmm, how nice that you can just discount me that way. Well, the truth still stands and you can not refute my point.

It was just done on the immediately preceding post.

The Bible is clear and so is the Spirit of prophecy, which Jack Sequeira likes to quote in other contexts-- that is, when he needs support for his favorite beliefs. When he doesn't, he throws the Spirit of prophecy overboard. That is becoming a popular way of avoiding what it says. If you don't like it, just dismiss it. Don't study it to see how you might be wrong and need to change your life, etc. This is particularly so with regard to the Investigative Judgment. People dislike it because it calls for them to overcome sin, and there are people who believe that is either not possible or that it doesn't matter. They also want to do away with the IJ because it denies once saved, always saved.

Quote:

The Genesis account undeniably states that God rested because His work was perfect and complete.

I completely agree that when God rested on that first Sabbath day, the world was perfect.

Could God have made an imperfect world?

Everything God does is perfect. So of course everything God creates is perfect. That really goes without saying. Do you agree?

That being the case, God rested because he was finished with the work of creating the world. Of course the world was very good when God got done making it. But you will notice that you and Jack MUST add that God rested because His work was perfect. Does the Bible itself say that? No. The Bible does not say that. If it does, now is the time to produce it as evidence. Find the verse that says, "He rested because His creation was perfect." You say that-- the Bible does not. The Bible simply says God rested because He finished making the world. The fact that it was perfect, while true, is not the reason for the resting. The reason for the resting was that God had completed the world and made human beings to enjoy it. That is the Bible reason for the Sabbath.

It's a nice trick to say the meaning of the Sabbath was destroyed because of the Fall when the Bible does not say it, and when it blatantly contradicts the Spirit of prophecy.

Given your idea that we may accept or reject the Spirit of prophecy depending on our personal desires, I am not at all surprised that you so easily discard what Ellen White wrote on a subject so central as the the Bible Sabbath.

Quote:

ROBERT--When Adam fell the Sabbath wasn't done away with, but the reason why one kept it changed. That is exactly what the text says at Gen. 2: 1-13.

I assume you mean Gen. 2: 1-3. If so, where does the text there say the reason for keeping the Sabbath changed? It completely agrees with the fourth commandment right in the center of God's moral law.

By the way, Deut. 5 does not contradict Ex. 20 in terms of the reason for the keeping of the Sabbath. It is an additional reason, not a contradiction. Besides, as I've said before, the most ancient manuscript copies of Deut. prove that Moses' review of the law included the Sabbath as a memorial of creation. I know that is not welcome news but it is true nevertheless.

But for the sake of the discussion, let us assume that we know nothing of the Dead Sea Scroll's Bible. Let's suppose all we have is Ex. 20 and Deut. 5 as those verses appear in the Masoretic text. Does the fact that that they are different prove that there was a change or that there is a contradiction?

Moses was talking to the second generation of Israelites. It was their parents, now dead, who had heard the law proclaimed. Moses is telling them things that they need to know before entering into the Promised Land. One of those is that they needed to remember that the Israelite people had been freed from slavery where they did not have the freedom to keep the Sabbath. Moses says when they themselves have servants or slaves, to remember what it was like in Egypt as a slave.

If you look at the tenth commandment in Deut. 5, you will see that Moses also added "the field" to that commandment in view of their going into the Promised Land.

The same God who made the world was the one who saved them out of slavery. Those two teachings are actually complementary rather than contradictory. In the the same way, there is no contradiction between Gen. 2: 1-3 and Hebrews 4.

In order for us to say there was a change made, we would need for Moses or some other prophet of God to rescind the blessing on the seventh day of the week or to tell us that the words of Ex. 20: 8-11 are no longer valid. So far no prophet of God ever said such a thing. In fact, God sent a prophet of God named Ellen G. White, who has plainly and clearly confirmed and supported the words of the commandment and Gen. 2:1-3. It is time to accept that fact.