Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If being "heavy on the law" is what makes one a "legalist", then that makes ALL the prophets legalists. That also makes Christ a legalist who was also "heavy on the law". That makes God Himself a legalist since His throne is founded not only on mercy but also law.

Gerry

And there's nothing wrong with the law, in and of itself. But when you folks who are heavy on the law bash it over our heads, then there's something wrong with that because you are not yourselves keeping it.

Was Jesus bashing His people over their heads by telling them, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," knowing full well that they "fall short?"

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

And there's nothing wrong with the law, in and of itself. But when you folks who are heavy on the law bash it over our heads, then there's something wrong with that because you are not yourselves keeping it.[/quote']

Was Jesus bashing His people over their heads by telling them, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," knowing full well that they "fall short?"

Gerry

No....

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

No....

Was God bashing people when He said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy?"

When He said, "Honor your father and mother?"

When He said, "Bring the full tithes into the storehouse?"

Gerry

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Ellen early on

When you [Willie] feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. When you do right and overcome wrong feelings, the Lord smiles upon you.

Originally Posted By: Ellen in her later years

“Do not teach your children [such as she taught Willie] that God does not love them when they do wrong

Do I hate Ellen White? No! Do I think she had light? Yes. Did she have all the light? No, she stated that she and the church had only "a glimmer of the light that was yet to come."

I have never said that you "hate" Ellen White, Rob. Nor have I implied it. But it is true that you reject many things the Spirit of prophecy teaches.

Here's what I said, "Given your idea that we may accept or reject the Spirit of prophecy depending on our personal desires, I am not at all surprised that you so easily discard what Ellen White wrote on a subject so central as the the Bible Sabbath."

Quote:

So yes, go ahead and read Ellen White, but first know your Bible inside and out. Who said that?

Quote:

But don’t you quote Sister White. I don’t want you ever to quote Sister White until you get your vantage ground where you know where you are. Quote the Bible. Talk the Bible

Yes, we certainly should know our Bible's.

Personally, I spend many hours studying the Bible for every hour of studying the Spirit of prophecy.

Speaking of quoting Ellen White, Jack Sequeira quotes it dozens of times in each of his books. The last book I read by him has about 35 quotes from her on the last two pages of the book.

Some quotes from Ellen White are misused to make people believe they should never quote her or consider her writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction."

That was not the purpose of her saying what she said there. She said what se did about this, because certain people she wrote to were misquoting her and did not quote the Bible accurately.

That is not the case here, Rob. The case here is that the Bible is being shown to support what Ellen White says about the Sabbath as a memorial of Creation, but Ellen White's writings on it are being rejected out of hand. If you look at my posts, you will see that they are usually full of what the Bible says.

[Robert]

Was God bashing people when He said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy?"

When He said, "Honor your father and mother?"

When He said, "Bring the full tithes into the storehouse?"

No, but the law was "bashing" when it demanded death for my failure. I have been delivered from the law, having died to the law in the body of Christ. [Romans 6:6/7:4,6]

Under the NC I am no longer under law. Under the NC God begins to write agape in the heart of the believer. The Sabbath isn't included in what God writes on the heart or Sunday keepers would be Sabbath keepers. So it's very clear that what God writes on the heart is agape, which in harmony with the last 6 commandments of the moral law.

[Robert]

...the church had only "a glimmer of the light that was yet to come."

Ellen White said that over 100 plus years ago. This means that the church of that time and Ellen White did not have the entire truth. A glimmer is just that - a faint ray of light.

As to Jack Sequeira...all I can tell you is that this man is a modern day Paul. I don't mean that he is on par with the Bible, but he really brings out what the Apostle Paul said in all his letters.

In that respect he has more light than Ellen White had when she died. So I'll take the light shinning from God's word now and not the supposition of her theology 100 plus years old.

Rob

[John317]

Have you told Jack Sequeira what you think on this point? Does he agree with you that he has more light than the Spirit of prophecy?

[Woody]

Have you told Jack Sequeira what you think on this point? Does he agree with you that he has more light than the Spirit of prophecy?

Those who have the light rarely know it nor will they acknowledge it.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Have you told Jack Sequeira what you think on this point? Does he agree with you that he has more light than the Spirit of prophecy?

Those who have the light rarely know it nor will they acknowledge it.

I am sure Jack Sequeira would not want people thinking or saying he has more light than Ellen White.

[Woody]

I don't think it should be a competition. I think both have a great deal of light. We don't need to determine who has the most.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Those who have the light rarely know it nor will they acknowledge it.

I am sure Jack Sequeira would not want people thinking or saying he has more light than Ellen White.

"We [EGW includes herself] have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light [truth] that is yet to come to us."

1] Define a glimmer: "A faint' date=' unsteady light; feeble, scattered rays of light; also, a gleam."

2'] Notice that "that is yet to come" is in the future tense!

How do I read her quote?

We have only faint, feeble, scattered rays of truth compared to that, which is yet to come to us.

Then why do many Adventists make Ellen White the end all be all of human existence? She plainly states she had limited light.

Robert

[Robert]

When you [Willie] feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. When you do right and overcome wrong feelings, the Lord smiles upon you.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Was God bashing people when He said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy?"

When He said, "Honor your father and mother?"

When He said, "Bring the full tithes into the storehouse?"

No, but the law was "bashing" when it demanded death for my failure. I have been delivered from the law, having died to the law in the body of Christ. [Romans 6:6/7:4,6]

Under the NC I am no longer under law. Under the NC God begins to write agape in the heart of the believer. The Sabbath isn't included in what God writes on the heart or Sunday keepers would be Sabbath keepers. So it's very clear that what God writes on the heart is agape, which in harmony with the last 6 commandments of the moral law.

By "delivered from the law", do you mean you don't have to keep it anymore?

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

No, but the law was "bashing" when it demanded death for my failure. I have been delivered from the law, having died to the law in the body of Christ. [Romans 6:6/7:4,6']

Under the NC I am no longer under law. Under the NC God begins to write agape in the heart of the believer. The Sabbath isn't included in what God writes on the heart or Sunday keepers would be Sabbath keepers. So it's very clear that what God writes on the heart is agape, which in harmony with the last 6 commandments of the moral law.

By "delivered from the law", do you mean you don't have to keep it anymore?

Gerry

Hey Gerry...you need a wakeup call: The reason you were delivered from the law in the first place is because you are failing to measure up! Comprehend?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Under the NC I am no longer under law. Under the NC God begins to write agape in the heart of the believer. The Sabbath isn't included in what God writes on the heart or Sunday keepers would be Sabbath keepers. So it's very clear that what God writes on the heart is agape, which in harmony with the last 6 commandments of the moral law.

By "delivered from the law", do you mean you don't have to keep it anymore?

Gerry

Hey Gerry...you need a wakeup call: The reason you were delivered from the law in the first place is because you are failing to measure up! Comprehend?

Please, indulge my lack of comprehension and answer the question with more clarity.

By "delivered from the law," do you mean that you don't have to keep it anymore?

Gerry

[Robert]

If I have to keep it (and none of us are measuring up) am I really keeping it?

Rob

[Gerr]

If I have to keep it (and none of us are measuring up) am I really keeping it?

Rob

Since you are being evasive about your answer and won't give a "yes" or "no" answer, shall I conclude that the answer is "YES"?

If that is so, then your solution:

To the drug/alcohol problem: since many love them or are "not measuring up", therefore legalize them.

Your solution to murder? Since people keep killing other people anyway: don't make murder a crime!

Your solution to the sin problem? Since nobody is keeping the law anyway: DO AWAY WITH OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW!!!

If obedience is no longer required, why would Jesus go to the Cross? So that He could legitimize sin?

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

If I have to keep it (and none of us are measuring up) am I really keeping it?

Rob

Your solution to the sin problem? Since nobody is keeping the law anyway: DO AWAY WITH OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW!!!

Gerry

Again, who told you that you were keeping the law???? To you keeping the law means following how your church interprets the Ten Commandments, but Christ showed the spirituality of the law in His birth, life, death and resurrection.

When you can live Christ's life of self-denial and self-emptying agape love then I'll be the first to call you a commandment keeper. Until then you are a sinner in need of Christ's righteousness. What part of this can't your brain comprehend?

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. [color:#660000]While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition [like Doc Gerry], the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness." [3T 252]

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Your solution to the sin problem? Since nobody is keeping the law anyway: DO AWAY WITH OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW!!!

Gerry

Again' date=' who told you that you were keeping the law???? To you keeping the law means following how your church interprets the Ten Commandments, but Christ showed the spirituality of the law in His birth, life, death and resurrection.

When you can live Christ's life of self-denial and self-emptying agape love then I'll be the first to call you a commandment keeper. Until then you are a sinner in need of Christ's righteousness. What part of this can't your brain comprehend?

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. [color:#660000']While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition [like Doc Gerry], the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness." [3T 252]

If being disobedient, spiritually blind, wretched and poor and naked is AOK with God, then why the warnings against the churches save two? Why the denunciation against it if being disobedient, blind, poor, wretched, and naked is acceptable to God?

Gerry

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Again' date=' who told you that you were keeping the law???? To you keeping the law means following how your church interprets the Ten Commandments, but Christ showed the spirituality of the law in His birth, life, death and resurrection.

When you can live Christ's life of self-denial and self-emptying agape love then I'll be the first to call you a commandment keeper. Until then you are a sinner in need of Christ's righteousness. What part of this can't your brain comprehend?

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. [color:#660000']While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition [like Doc Gerry], the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness." [3T 252]

If being disobedient, spiritually blind, wretched and poor and naked is AOK with God, then why the warnings against the churches save two? Why the denunciation against it if being disobedient, blind, poor, wretched, and naked is acceptable to God?

Gerry

Gerry...stop talking in circles.....You are in a sad deception if you think you are living Christ's life. Start comparing and you'll see what I mean.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Again' date=' who told you that you were keeping the law???? To you keeping the law means following how your church interprets the Ten Commandments, but Christ showed the spirituality of the law in His birth, life, death and resurrection.

When you can live Christ's life of self-denial and self-emptying agape love then I'll be the first to call you a commandment keeper. Until then you are a sinner in need of Christ's righteousness. What part of this can't your brain comprehend?

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. [color:#660000']While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition [like Doc Gerry], the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness." [3T 252]

If being disobedient, spiritually blind, wretched and poor and naked is AOK with God, then why the warnings against the churches save two? Why the denunciation against it if being disobedient, blind, poor, wretched, and naked is acceptable to God?

Gerry

Gerry...stop talking in circles.....You are in a sad deception if you think you are living Christ's life. Start comparing and you'll see what I mean.

If the good news is that we don't have to obey God anymore and still be saved, why don't you proclaim it on the housetops without evasion or equivocation?

Paul, to whom you attribute this devilish theology, has these to say:

[color:red]"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and thing like these. I WARN YOU, AS I WARNED YOU BEFORE, THAT THOSE WHO DO SUCH THINGS WILOL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD." Gal 5:19-21 ESV.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: NEITHER THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL, NOR IDOLATERS, NOR ADULTERERS, NOR MEN WHO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY, NOR THIEVES, NOR THE GREEDY, NOR DRUNKARDS, NOR REVILERS, NOR SWINDLERS WILL INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And such WERE som of you. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 9:9-11 ESV

Is there any sin that he missed?

Gerry

[Woody]

Quote:

While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition

Rob. I think your point about Christians exalting their spiritual condition is well taken. I was just studying about Adam and Eve at the fall. And they tried the same approach. They even tried to blame God for their sins in order to build up themselves. Some will stop at nothing to make themselves 'look' good.

[Woody]

Quote:

If the good news is that we don't have to obey God anymore and still be saved, why don't you proclaim it on the housetops without evasion or equivocation?

Gerry. Every opportunity I get ... I do just this. I love to proclaim that Jesus took my place. We are saved not based upon on US obeying God. But we are saved based on Jesus obeying God. HE is my substitute. To hear someone say that they are saved based on obeying God ... makes me sad for them. They will die with no hope and no assurance.

[Gerr]

Quote:

If the good news is that we don't have to obey God anymore and still be saved, why don't you proclaim it on the housetops without evasion or equivocation?

Gerry. Every opportunity I get ... I do just this. I love to proclaim that Jesus took my place. We are saved not based upon on US obeying God. But we are saved based on Jesus obeying God. HE is my substitute. To hear someone say that they are saved based on obeying God ... makes me sad for them. They will die with no hope and no assurance.

Red, you will NEVER find in any of my over 1000 posts where I ever claimed that I am saved based on my obedience!!! Let me unequivocably state again as I have done many times before. I do not find assurance of salvation in what I have done or am doing now or in the future. My assurance alone is in the righteousness that comes from God through faith. Yes, I love to proclaim too that Jesus as my Substitute took my place. But if by saying that you mean that I now don't have to obey God, then that's where we part 180 degress apart. Are you of the same mind as Rob that God no longer require obedience? Paul is unequivocal when he said that those who keep on sinning will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, see Gal 5:18-21; 1 Cor 6:9,10. The Bible is very explicit in telling us that faith without works is dead. The faith that saves is the faith that works. A theory is of no use unless it works.

Disobedience got us in the predicament we're in. There is NOTHING in Scripture that I know of that gives me assurance that I can keep on living a life of sin and still enjoy the assurance of salvation. If you know of one, please, show it.

Gerry

[Woody]

Quote:

There is NOTHING in Scripture that I know of that gives me assurance that I can keep on living a life of sin and still enjoy the assurance of salvation. If you know of one, please, show it.

Try John 3:16 .

We all will sin until the day we die. That is clear. We WILL continue to live a life of sin. We will also have victories. The power is there. There is NO excuse to sin as Ellen White puts it. But we are sinners. And Jesus died for sinners. He did not die for those who have achieved a life without sin. He died for those who 'believe' in Him.

So, we DO have the assurance that even though we keep living a life of sin ... we "still do enjoy the assurance of Salvation".

Good works are just fine. I have no problem with them. But as soon as you tie them to salvation. I have an issue with you.