Ray Boltz is gay!

[rush4hire]

We have let down our guard in allowing women to perform baptisms and fill the same role in ministry as men. That's really not how the Lord set it up:

[color:#BF0000]Duet. 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

So the distinctions of the sexes are blurred. Then what next? We show approval of homosexuality, like in many of the Sunday churches? Then next we are performing gay weddings?

You can let anyone come to your church, but you can't baptize someone who is not willing to repent of a sin that people where stoned to death for. To do this is pure blasphemy. It's a perversion of the Gospel. It's taking the Lord's name in vain.

[color:#BF0000]Exo. 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

And coffee has nothing to do with this. It's not a self-evident thing to everyone. No one has ever been stoned to death for coffee. Though I remember taking a vow before baptism, and there may have been something about coffee mentioned. Anyone that really loves Jesus will be willing to give up anything for Him.

[color:#BF0000]Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Especially if it's a sin:

[color:#BF0000]2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

[rush4hire]

Finally like all festering sores it all had to seep out or explode!

And for once in his life he decided to not to hate himself for something he did not wish upon his young child soul.

He accepted it and breathed for the first time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's not very encouraging. The Lord has given advice.

[color:#BF0000]Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Col. 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth ;

Gal. 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Resist the Devil by playing dead. A dead man can't sin. Let the Devil crucify you and believe that Christ will raise you up and give you a great reward for your courage and faith. Be brave. Don't give in to appease his wrath.

If you lose a round, try again. If you're having a struggle, keep it to yourself until you get the victory. Seek help if you have to, but don't just give in and then go about advertising it. That's not going to help at all. That will harden your heart like nothing else.

That's another temptation right there. The Devil wants you to promote sin, and he will promise great rewards of the world:

[color:#BF0000]Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

If you give in, you influence others to give in. If you overcome, you influence others to overcome. A famous man will influence a lot more people. You reap what you sew:

[color:#BF0000]Gal. 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

If he overcomes, he sews victory in a lot of hearts and will give a lot of people hope. If he sews defeat, he will discourage a lot of people, and they will also give in, thinking it's too hard to get the victory if he can't get it. His music will serve as a vehicle to spread either seed.

Homosexuality is a disease that spreads. It is a savage cancer. That's why it had to be contained in Israel by the death sentence. And that's why we do not allow it in our church.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

I don't. nor do I recommend him for baptism. Instead I point out where he differs with accepted church beliefs...and where the bible differs with his beliefs....

OK' date=' you and I are in agreement here. Whew! LOL[/quote']

No worries here, John...

And sorry I didn't get back to you last night. Couldn't keep my eyes open any longer, and was just plain t i r e d....

Originally Posted By: John317

Originally Posted By: Neil D

The problem that I see is that you are so gun-ho on knowing every detail of this person's life....it's impractical...

People change....even if this person became gay after he became an adventist, there is still room to grow....

No, if I gave that impression, I certainly never intended to. I really would be interested in knowing what I said that made you think this, because I am interested in communicating clearly. I wish you would do me the favor of going through my messages and letting me know where I went wrong and communicated that notion. I'll apologize if I did that.

It was the quickness to respond to the question that insisted that people who are still practicing sin should not be baptisted.

Are you aware that EVERYONE is practicing some form of sin? Are you aware that since only pathological liars are perfect, that we [the church] are working on some form of our many sins, and yet, we got baptisted....!

I know of church adulterys that are going on, men and women, separately and single-handedly, married and single, jumping from relationship to relationship, and yet, they are allowed into the church...

I am aware that it is only when you are known and accepted that change can happen....And most of us in church are afraid to be left alone...and vulnerable ....and our change can not happen...

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Gays and alcoholics both really battle with selfishness and self-centeredness.

Don't we all...

Psychologists that have worked with these groups of people say they are the extreme examples of selfishness. So while everyone struggles with self, it seems alcoholics and gays have even a more extreme struggle.

[Neil D]

If you lose a round, try again. If you're having a struggle, keep it to yourself until you get the victory. Seek help if you have to, but don't just give in and then go about advertising it. That's not going to help at all. That will harden your heart like nothing else.

That's another temptation right there. The Devil wants you to promote sin, and he will promise great rewards of the world:

[snip]

Homosexuality is a disease that spreads. It is a savage cancer. That's why it had to be contained in Israel by the death sentence. And that's why we do not allow it in our church.

Rush,

You scare me...

Whatever happened to "Bear one another's burdens"?

Whatever happened to prayer? Whatever happeded to letting the Lord control? [yes, yes, I know you think that is what you are talking about.] Whatever happened to understanding on our part when someone confesses his sin to you?

Dig deeper in understanding, compassion and kindness. And love might show....

[rush4hire]

After baptism there is a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit to help us better understand truth and to abide in truth. If we fully understood all about what is sin and what is not sin ... and had total victory over all that we understood ...

Then why is there given a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit? After all ... we would already be PERFECT.

[Neil D]

I think you're baptizing too many people, too fast. Everyone knows homosexuality is a sin. It's self-evident.

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: Gail

Quote:

Gays and alcoholics both really battle with selfishness and self-centeredness.

Don't we all...

Psychologists that have worked with these groups of people say they are the extreme examples of selfishness. So while everyone struggles with self, it seems alcoholics and gays have even a more extreme struggle.

Psychologists and psychiatrists I know personally often demonstrate quite a skewed view on reality. Many times the only people they see in a day outside of the family are those in their offices. Additionally, the people they tend to try to help are those who are "extreme" cases to begin with. Generally speaking, p-docs aren't seeing the "milder" cases.

[Dr. Shane]

Which only supports the claim. When psychologist say gays and alcoholics are extreme cases of selfishness that really means they are the extreme of the extreme. It takes a lot to get out of one's self. To try and look at things from another's perspective. "To walk in another man's shoes."

[cricket]

Perhaps. It could also mean that those gays and alcoholics that p-docs see are among the few persons who can't deal with their extreme "selfishness" and turn to alcoholism and homosexuality to cope. Also, it could be that the most extremely selfish people NEVER even end up in a p-doc office to begin with. Consider those with true NPD (Narcissitic Personality Disorder); talk about selfishness! Seriously research it online sometime--you'll see what I mean. They NEVER end up in a p-doc office because of their extreme selfishness.

[darlene]

No, the practise of homosexuality is wrong. When we look at what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, he said "Go and sin no more." So, he would say to the homosexual "Go and sin no more." Did he love the woman caught in adultery? Did he accept her and treat her with love? Yes! He did. So today, we must practise His example with the homosexual person. We must love and accept them and they must "Go and sin no more."

[Gail]

No, the practise of homosexuality is wrong. When we look at what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, he said "Go and sin no more." So, he would say to the homosexual "Go and sin no more." Did he love the woman caught in adultery? Did he accept her and treat her with love? Yes! He did. So today, we must practise His example with the homosexual person. We must love and accept them and they must "Go and sin no more."

Jesus says it very simply, doesn't He?

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: darlene

No, the practise of homosexuality is wrong. When we look at what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, he said "Go and sin no more." So, he would say to the homosexual "Go and sin no more." Did he love the woman caught in adultery? Did he accept her and treat her with love? Yes! He did. So today, we must practise His example with the homosexual person. We must love and accept them and they must "Go and sin no more."

Jesus says it very simply, doesn't He?

And yet we struggle with His commands.....

[rush4hire]

Are you aware that EVERYONE is practicing some form of sin?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: darlene

No, the practise of homosexuality is wrong. When we look at what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, he said "Go and sin no more." So, he would say to the homosexual "Go and sin no more." Did he love the woman caught in adultery? Did he accept her and treat her with love? Yes! He did. So today, we must practise His example with the homosexual person. We must love and accept them and they must "Go and sin no more."

Jesus says it very simply, doesn't He?

Excellent! I only wish I could have seen you both of you on this thread much earlier.

Imagine the woman caught in adultery telling Jesus, "But I'm not sinning."

Or some people saying, "Yeah, but everyone is sinning, no one's perfect, and we can't help it or stop."

It seems to me that's what's happening more and more today.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Niel D

Are you aware that EVERYONE is practicing some form of sin?

This is your weird theory. To support it, you have to change the definition of sin, which is an attack on God's law. Those who believe this have been found to also teach the "Original Sin" doctrine, and an species of "Immaculate Conception". In fact we know that the Left Behind theology comes from the Jesuits. Putting this information together, it wouldn't surprise me if the Jesuits where behind the New Theology movement.

But when you make statements like this, you break the 9th commandment.

[darlene]

Hey, come on you guys! Is that loving and accepting one another or one another's ideas and beliefs? What about courtesy? Yes, granted, you may have some valid points but, the way they are stated is going beyond courteous. I just don't see Jesus responding to another's person's ideas in that fashion, do you?

[Dr. Shane]

It could also mean that those gays and alcoholics that p-docs see are among the few persons who can't deal with their extreme "selfishness" and turn to alcoholism and homosexuality to cope.

Alcoholism and homosexuality are part of their selfishness, not a result of it.

[Neil D]

Hey, come on you guys! Is that loving and accepting one another or one another's ideas and beliefs? What about courtesy? Yes, granted, you may have some valid points but, the way they are stated is going beyond courteous. I just don't see Jesus responding to another's person's ideas in that fashion, do you?

Awww, Darlene...

We've seen this before....We let the religious tikes in here and they start quoting their version of EGW and they forget what tolerance is all about. Forum members are nice to them, and they get bolder and bolder and start quoting EGW and expecting you to tow their religious lines for them...If you don't smack them up side the head with a reality check [aka telling them that their brand of religion is as offensive to the rest of us as it is to God] from time to time, they start thinking that they are God's new prophet.

It's been modeled for them on how to be nice...[and you do such a good job of it], but sometimes you gotta let them know that no matter who they represent, thier brand of religion is stinketh to high heaven.

[darlene]

Yes, Neil, I knoweth but, it embarasseth to come here and see some of that stuff. God knoweth where we cometh from and it is He who judgeth, not us. Anyone can come to Townhall without even signing in. What kind of message are we giving? It it a correct image of the God we love or is it our own kind of brew?

And if we use Ellen White quotes, it depends on how we use her writings. I do believe in her writings and that she was a prophet of God. And her writings are there to shine a light on God's Word. We all know that but, there are times when we don't want to believe it and we reason it away. So sad!

[Kevin H]

Part of the problem here is we have arguments from Bible believers, both groups wanting to be fair to the Bible but who's honest study have lead them to opposit conclusions.

The basic conflect is between the proof texts we pull out and how they have been traditionally interpeted and what is being pointed out about the context of this text both in the Bible and in it's historical context and possible translation problems. There is also the issue that there are people like me who find this topic gross and can't comprehend how people can be gay.

But they are those people, many of them with a very religious orientation that loves God, the Bible and even Mrs. White and it's been in the shadows but people have been trying to deal with this issue, as well as in Biblical studies here is the debate over those who want to hold to the proof texts and the traditional interpetation of the proof texts and those who argue that we are taking our proof texts out of context and are thus unfair to what the Bible is actually talking about, and that we are doing the same thing as people who take certan fire texts in the Bible to teach a traditional hell, or those who take Paul's absent from the body and pressent with the Lord as proof that the dead go to heaven when they die.

[darlene]

Yes, Kevin, H. I think you are correct. There are two sides and they have each studied the Bible well and come to conclusions. I have no problem with that. What I am intending to say is that when things get a little heated, we need to remember to be courteous and kind in what and how we say things. For quite a while in this thread most of them have done that.

[Jeannieb43]

I know of church adulterys that are going on, men and women, separately and single-handedly, married and single, jumping from relationship to relationship, and yet, they are allowed into the church...

The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.

[John317]

//www.sdakinship.org/about.htm

[Peace]

I suppose you've heard of Bradley Fowler who is suing Zondervan Publishing for their Bible reference to homosexuality in 1 Cor. 6:9. The amount he is asking for is $60 million.

To watch the lawsuit video click below:

http://www.truveo.com/Lawsuit-aimed-at-Bible-reference-to-homosexuality/id/3324621876