Woody Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Quote: SDA Minister's Manual .... P. 125 " So while we cannot expect a lot of fruit in the prebaptismal life of the candidate, neverless some fruit must be visible. Surely this fruit should include Sabbath keeping, church attendance, and refraining from the use of harmful substances." These are the pillars for baptism. The fruits listed do not include being free from a gay lifestyle. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted September 20, 2008 Moderators Posted September 20, 2008 Quote: SDA Minister's Manual .... P. 125 " So while we cannot expect a lot of fruit in the prebaptismal life of the candidate, neverless some fruit must be visible. Surely this fruit should include Sabbath keeping, church attendance, and refraining from the use of harmful substances." These are the pillars for baptism. The fruits listed do not include being free from a gay lifestyle. But it does mean wanting to obey Christ in all things. But what if the person does not want to obey Christ in the matter of homosexuality? What if he thinks it is OK and he wants to keep doing that? Should the church baptize a person who says, "I love porn and I don't believe it's a sin. I intend to keep watching it until the day I day"? Does this show a person is ready to be baptized and join the church? Do you see the difference between that and saying, "I am hooked on porn but I want to be free of it. Please pray for me that I can overcome this sin"? It is the same principle with those who want to continue practicing homosexuality and those who acknowledge its sinfulness and want freedom from it. NO ONE SAYING THE PERSON SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE CHURCH FOR WORSHIP. That's an entirely different issue. Of course anyone who wants to come to church should be made to feel welcome. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Quote: But what if the person does not want to obey Christ in the matter of homosexuality? You are like a broken record. But you do wear me down. So, I will abide. John .... Do I need to list the sins that we as sinners do not want to give up. Some would not want to give up thinking that they have something to offer God for their salvation ... such as works. I view that much worse. Some like to gossip. Some like to have more than one wife.King David and Solomon would not be able to be baptized according to your rules. Just think of it. David and Solomon had no intentions of obeying God. Yet ... God winked at them. I think we need to wink at the gays and allow them to come to Christ. Some don't feel the gay person can have victory and will thus banish them from fellowship. I happen to believe that with a good church support system and the power of prayer and inspiration ... the gay person can desire to and overcome this sin. But Jesus invited ALL to come to Him. By banishing the gay person ... you are telling them that they are hopeless and that God is hopeless to help them. I would not limit God in this way. Let them come as they are. Just as Jesus invites all of us to do. Then we can witness and accept them into our fellowship. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Marie Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 It seems like a long time sense this was replyed to. I for one want to say that there is not much to think on this of myself. Regardless of who the person is, how Christian he seems to be, or how beautiful he may or may not sing, the answer to all is the same. We all know what the Bible says about this issue. That is where I stand. It is the begainning and the ending of what we as true Christians should believe. That said, I feel they should be treated with Christian love and be prayed for often, hoping that the Holy Spirit will help these people to see that they need to repent and not live this kind of life style. In His Love, Marie
Moderators John317 Posted September 20, 2008 Moderators Posted September 20, 2008 Quote: But what if the person does not want to obey Christ in the matter of homosexuality? You are like a broken record. But you do wear me down. So, I will abide. John .... Do I need to list the sins that we as sinners do not want to give up. Some would not want to give up thinking that they have something to offer God for their salvation ... such as works. I view that much worse. Some like to gossip. Some like to have more than one wife.King David and Solomon would not be able to be baptized according to your rules. Just think of it. David and Solomon had no intentions of obeying God. Yet ... God winked at them. I think we need to wink at the gays and allow them to come to Christ. Some don't feel the gay person can have victory and will thus banish them from fellowship. I happen to believe that with a good church support system and the power of prayer and inspiration ... the gay person can desire to and overcome this sin. But Jesus invited ALL to come to Him. By banishing the gay person ... you are telling them that they are hopeless and that God is hopeless to help them. I would not limit God in this way. Let them come as they are. Just as Jesus invites all of us to do. Then we can witness and accept them into our fellowship. I have not once said gays should be banished from fellowship. Nor am I limiting God. God is limited by those who believe that God cannot help them change or overcome sin. Again, I am addressing the question of baptism and becoming a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, not simply worshipping in an Adventist Church. Anyone is or should be welcome to come to our churches and worship. I am not saying they are hopeless or that God is hopeless to them. That is the opposite of what I am saying. I am saying that homosexuals can change and overcome by God's Spirit and power. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Amelia Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 *GP* I am seeing things heating up in this thread. If it continues I will move it to Natter Matters. Please remember to act as adults and type with discretion. No name calling or belittling! <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
rush4hire Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 I would say that Enoch has a real good relationship with God. And so did Elijah, who got mad at God and uttered things that were not true in his depression. And yet, he was still translated as well.... I cant make a sig with 30 chrs
rush4hire Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 I suppose you've heard of Bradley Fowler who is suing Zondervan Publishing for their Bible reference to homosexuality in 1 Cor. 6:9. The amount he is asking for is $60 million. To watch the lawsuit video click below: http://www.truveo.com/Lawsuit-aimed-at-Bible-reference-to-homosexuality/id/3324621876 I saw a very good presentation by Amazing Facts about gay marriage. I thought it would be boring, but it was really good. An old judge that had been a judge for a long time got fired because he would not marry a gay couple. And two women where sued because they turned a lesbian down as a room-mate. It's gettin' pretty bad. *** deleted as it created a pop up window, try to find it on youtube thanks *** Or download it: .WMV - - - .MP4 - - - .MP3 Or watch it on this page, if that embed doesn't work. I cant make a sig with 30 chrs
Moderators John317 Posted September 20, 2008 Moderators Posted September 20, 2008 An old judge that had been a judge for a long time got fired because he would not marry a gay couple. And two women where sued because they turned a lesbian down as a room-mate. It's gettin' pretty bad.... If you think it's bad now, just wait.... Satan's plan is to make it harder and harder to follow God's ways. He will get it to the point where you will be looked upon as a criminal and an enemy of mankind if you love God and want to serve him. And when that happens, a faithful Adventist's worst enemies-- sad to say-- will be those who were once SDA. See last chapters of GC. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 *GP* I am seeing things heating up in this thread. If it continues I will move it to Natter Matters. Please remember to act as adults and type with discretion. No name calling or belittling! I hope I can say this respectfully ... but who is the moderator over TownHall? When I check ... it says John317. While I thought that John317 was generally the moderator of most all forums ... I would be glad to hear that you also are moderator. But to the uninformed ... it is very confusing. I was not aware that there was any monitoring of the moderator. But if there is ... this would be a good thing. Cool. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Amelia Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Originally Posted By: Amelia *GP* I am seeing things heating up in this thread. If it continues I will move it to Natter Matters. Please remember to act as adults and type with discretion. No name calling or belittling! I hope I can say this respectfully ... but who is the moderator over TownHall? When I check ... it says John317. While I thought that John317 was generally the moderator of most all forums ... I would be glad to hear that you also are moderator. But to the uninformed ... it is very confusing. John317 is indeed moderator of Townhall but not moderator of all forums. I am also a moderator of my own forums and an administrator. If John317 doesn't like what I have posted or wishes to override it, he has just to PM me. I will not say whether he has done so or not. Amelia <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Stan Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 John is the primary moderator on Townhall, he is also a global moderator, as are a couple of other folks. There are 3 administrators. Each moderator has the right to set the tone in the forum they moderate. Global moderators can also delete offensive posts in other areas. AND Redwood, I want to thank you for reporting that one yesterday, If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Stan Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Actually Global Moderators are new, with the last version, I am not sure what all they can do. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 John is the primary moderator on Townhall, he is also a global moderator, as are a couple of other folks. There are 3 administrators. Each moderator has the right to set the tone in the forum they moderate. Global moderators can also delete offensive posts in other areas. AND Redwood, I want to thank you for reporting that one yesterday, Thanks Stan. It is honestly quite confusing to some how things are run. But I do appreciate what Amelia has done here. I was just curious as to how she could do it. And regarding to the reporting I did. Oh my. That still makes me shiver. I've never before seen such things. Do you have problems with that very often? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Stan Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Not sure what you mean by reporting... Amelia has super powers on here to do anything anywhere anytime If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Not sure what you mean by reporting... Amelia has super powers on here to do anything anywhere anytime May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Stan Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 ok that one, some winner posted some porn and you notified us of that.. so zapped it.. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Back to the topic at hand. What concerns me is the following attitude: Quote: "Could it be that we will also see many of the church members supporting those who are openly gay inside the church? " "There are gays who enter into the Christian churches and have no intention of changing or overcoming the sin of homosexuality because they do not believe it is a sin. They believe it is OK to have homosexual partners. It is different if someone repents of sin and wants God to help them overcome sin. But today we have many people who have no plan to stop their sins but want to be accepted IN their sins. They do not plan to be faithful to God. They think that their sins make no difference. They do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. " Why does this concern me? Because I believe we SHOULD give love and "support"to those who are gay. And I do hope they are 'INSIDE' the church. Inside the church is where they can get the best help I would hope. I happen to believe that gays can realize and overcome this sin. But if they don't realize it ... where do you think they will be able to come to this point? It is INSIDE the church where this can best happen. Being gay should not exclude you from being "supported" INSIDE the church. Yet some here seem to think that their particular sin of homosexuality would poison our church. Well to them I would say that my God is more powerful than that. Can you imagine someone coming to our church and having no intention of overcoming a particular sin? I can. But many do this and it is not just the gays. We should support ALL those who come into our midst. If we can't help them ... then who can? Lastly let me say that if someone is not repenting of a particular sin ... where would you suggest we put them? If not the church then where? What would you call it? Purgatory? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted September 20, 2008 Moderators Posted September 20, 2008 Back to the topic at hand. What concerns me is the following attitude: Quote: "Could it be that we will also see many of the church members supporting those who are openly gay inside the church? " "There are gays who enter into the Christian churches and have no intention of changing or overcoming the sin of homosexuality because they do not believe it is a sin. They believe it is OK to have homosexual partners. It is different if someone repents of sin and wants God to help them overcome sin. But today we have many people who have no plan to stop their sins but want to be accepted IN their sins. They do not plan to be faithful to God. They think that their sins make no difference. They do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. " Why does this concern me? Because I believe we SHOULD give love and "support"to those who are gay. And I do hope they are 'INSIDE' the church. Inside the church is where they can get the best help I would hope. I happen to believe that gays can realize and overcome this sin. But if they don't realize it ... where do you think they will be able to come to this point? It is INSIDE the church where this can best happen. Being gay should not exclude you from being "supported" INSIDE the church. Yet some here seem to think that their particular sin of homosexuality would poison our church. Well to them I would say that my God is more powerful than that. Can you imagine someone coming to our church and having no intention of overcoming a particular sin? I can. But many do this and it is not just the gays. We should support ALL those who come into our midst. If we can't help them ... then who can? Lastly let me say that if someone is not repenting of a particular sin ... where would you suggest we put them? If not the church then where? What would you call it? Purgatory? There is nothing in anything I have said that indicates I am opposed gays going to church. I am talking about the church baptizing and making members of homosexuals who do not believe it is a sin to have sex with members of their own gender and who want to keep doing those things. I am not talking about whether gay people should be able to come to church and worship, etc. Of course ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SHOULD BE ABLE TO COME TO CHURCH. I have been writing for years now about this subject, that God is able to help us overcome. I am not saying God does not have the power. In fact, that has been my point all along. God has the power! Gays can resist and overcome!! YES. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Amelia Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Oh great, now you've gone and made John go all bold on us. Thanx. <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Okay. Let me clearly understand this then ... You are now saying that they are able to "enter into the Christian churches and have no intention of changing or overcoming the sin of homosexuality" But there is a big 'but'. You don't want them to be a member. You would have them be an outcast of some sort or another. Kinda like how the Jews were labeled by Hitler? Why have this different class of sinners just reserved for Gays? I doubt that many would want to come and be classified as such. Refusing them membership is not the way to 'support' them but perhaps that is your method and we will just have to agree to disagree. But, why do you feel that withholding "support" would be of any help or witness? And why do you do this just for those who are gays? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 Oh great, now you've gone and made John go all bold on us. Thanx. Amelia ... He is always bold. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 May I ask??? What does membership mean to you? Which sins do you feel one must have overcome before coming to Christ? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Amelia Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 OK, none of us know what ALL gays are thinking. Red, John is offering a hypothetical senario. A "what if"? "What if" a gay wanted to join the church but did not intend to stop having sex with other gays? What would/should the church do, given their currant "rules" of baptism? Should the church rewrite the rules? Should the church redefine how it has read the Words of God? Should the church turn it's back on this hypothetical person? What should the churches ministry be towords gays who love Jesus but still have sex with other gays? I believe, and John tell me if I am wrong, these are the questions he is posing. We are talking about the church here, not what gays think or don't think. <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Recommended Posts