Robert Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 I was about to say, guys, that this thread shoulda ENDED about 18 pages ago..... teehe No, not really. Whether it's football, education, etc the only way to open the self-righteous' eyes is to discuss these things.
Robert Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Yes, they got on this topic during the Superbowl and haven't gotten off it ever since. We ought to take it to a different thread, I s'pose. Why? More folks read here then anywhere else! Moving loses the audience.
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 Well I thought the same thing even when the game was still on, but then today when I saw some things that Gerry and Robert were talking about, I got so interested, I didn't even pay attention to the title of the thread. haha John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 Are you saying, then, that everyone must remain a slave of sin until the Second Coming? That means Paul and John the Baptist and Enoch were all slaves of sin until they either died or, as in Enoch's case, were translated?? Yes? ________________ No?__________________ John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert I do my best (20%) and Christ makes up the difference (80%). Like I said, Roman Catholicism. Where does the Bible contradict Ellen White's statement? Eph 2:4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved [agaped] us so very much, 5 that even while we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's special favor that you have been saved!) 6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ, and we are seated with him in the heavenly realms – all because we are one with Christ Jesus. 7 And so God can always point to us as examples of the incredible wealth of his favor and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us through Christ Jesus. 8 God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so that we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. According to Paul we are 100% righteous "in Christ". You can't add to perfection. All we can do is experience Christ and hence there's no division of credit. It's all Christ's righteousness and nothing of mine.
Neil D Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Are you saying, then, that everyone must remain a slave of sin until the Second Coming? That means Paul and John the Baptist and Enoch were all slaves of sin? Yes? ________________ No?__________________ What ever happened to - Maybe?__________________________ I mean, come on, what's wrong with 'maybe'? Surely, you guys can allow a nebulous phrase like maybe to become a part of the discussion....Do you realize just how much "maybe" maybe sad at the ineffectual useage of the word? You guys maybe hurting "maybe"s feelings! Come on..and live a little....besides, the use of "maybe" may increase the length of this discourse....Which you guys definately are not going to do any sort of abatement.... So, what's a little "maybe" between discourser?s Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 The NT doesn't refer to Spirit-filled and Spirit-led believers as "slaves of sin." It refers to them as slaves of righteousness and of God. Romans 6: 18, 22. Study Romans 6: 15-23 and chapter 8. The man of Romans 7 is still a slave of sin. But he is not Spirit-filled or Spirit-led. He can't help but sin (Romans 7: 15). He practices sin because he is carnal. That's different from the person who is freed from sin, as described in Romans 6 and 8. The Bible doesn't say that the man who is freed from sin never sins. 1 John 1: 5 to 2: 6. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you saying, then, that everyone must remain a slave of sin until the Second Coming? That means Paul and John the Baptist and Enoch were all slaves of sin until they either died or, as in Enoch's case, were translated?? Are you saying they were sinless and that they were walking just as Christ walked? If so did that save them? Being "set free from sin," as Paul uses the phrase in Romans 6: 18, 19, is not a reference to being sinless. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you saying, then, that everyone must remain a slave of sin until the Second Coming? That means Paul and John the Baptist and Enoch were all slaves of sin? Yes? ________________ No?__________________ What ever happened to - Maybe?__________________________ So, what's a little "maybe" between discourser?s Yeah but do you think the Bible gives us evidence that these men were still slaves of sin until the end of their lives on earth? I'm not sure how the answer could possibly be "maybe," if you are using "slave of sin" the way Paul uses it in Romans 6 to 8. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Neil D Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: Neil D What ever happened to - Maybe?__________________________ So, what's a little "maybe" between discourser?s Yeah but do you think the Bible gives us evidence that these men were still slaves of sin until the end of their lives on earth? I'm not sure how the answer could possibly be "maybe," if you are using "slave of sin" the way Paul uses it in Romans 6 to 8. MAYBE it will, and MAYBE it won't. I am sure that the word MAYBE will be glad of it's usages and the more times you MAYBE using it, the more times MAYBe might be glad of it's usage.... Of course, MAYBE automatically inserts the precautionary doubt that causes one to hesitates to answer in such a decisive way.......Indecision is a much better way of prolonging a discussion, especially if you use the word MAYBE...... Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 Are you saying, then, that everyone must remain a slave of sin until the Second Coming? That means Paul and John the Baptist and Enoch were all slaves of sin until they either died or, as in Enoch's case, were translated?? Are you saying they were sinless and that they were walking just as Christ walked? If so did that save them? As far as Enoch is concerned and the word "sinless," it depends on how you use it. But even so, being "sinless" is not what saves anyone. John 2: 1-6 shows that walking as Christ walked is not the reason God saves us. It's the fruit of a faith-based, loving, personal relationship with Christ. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Neil D Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Are you saying they were sinless and that they were walking just as Christ walked? If so did that save them?[/quote'] As far as Enoch is concerned and the word "sinless," it depends on how you use it. But even so, being "sinless" is not what saves anyone. John 2: 1-6 shows that walking as Christ walked is not the reason God saves us. It's the fruit of a faith-based, loving, personal relationship with Christ. Of course, there is the opposite of MAYBE.....that is....MAYBE NOT.... Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Neil D Posted February 14, 2009 Author Posted February 14, 2009 HEY EVERYONE.... it's been 3 minutes since anyone has posted here.... TAKE A DEEP BREATH....... LET IT OUT GENTLY...... ONCE MORE, DEEP BREATH...... ok, we know take you back to your regularly scheduled debate... Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
Moderators John317 Posted February 14, 2009 Moderators Posted February 14, 2009 OK,I get the hint. Lock up time boys. Bye bye. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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