Life After Death???

[Gail]

I agree... The Bible says that Saul "perceived" the spectre to be Samuel. But God had already refused to communicate with Saul. Samuel was not then, even if he could, to disobey God at the whim of a witch.

[jasd]

>>And then He breathed into Adam the breath of life. When Adam died (note - died) He went back to dust where he came from. His life ended.<<

Synergism: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

You have in your above quote the parts – dust and breath. What then of the mind, the spirit, the animating vitality, the constituent man’, the “burning lamp” of Genesis 15:17, etc, ...when the dust of man’s tabernacle returns to the earth? the constricting remains of his chrysalis tabernacle, as it were...

>>His life ended.<<

Indeed, that thing we might presently identify “life” is "ended" as we understand it, or if you will, removed; that is, from “the face of the earth”, and from “under the sun” – from the company of men – as we know it. Then again,

man, “absent from the body” may better locate (2 Cor 5:8) to a place where a man encounters such as “unlawful to utter” (2 Cor 12:4).

[jasd]

>>The Bible says that Saul "perceived" the spectre to be Samuel.<<

I’m not one to rigorously stand upon this or that exposition of this passage; however, I’d note:

Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

It seems that, as used by Isaiah, “perceiving” is an enlargement upon “seeing” – and a positive declaration.

I also wonder at the fact that should it not have been Samuel but rather, a demonic apparition – how it is that a force of evil knows the hour of a man’s demise. I, rather, expect that knowledge to be the purview of Gd.

>>Samuel was not then, even if he could, to disobey God at the whim of a witch.<<

But, Gd uses even a dumb beast, ie, a donkey – to exact His wishes...

[Gail]

Quote:

But, Gd uses even a dumb beast, ie, a donkey – to exact His wishes...

Yes, He could- but would He, after refusing to? (1 Sam.28:6)

I do also believe that Satan can predict a catastrophe and then make it happen, taking lives. If a fortune-teller predicted that a plane was going to crash, I probably wouldn't get on that plane.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

If there is nothing remaining, then it seems to me that there would be nothing to resurrect. Without God all is vanity, and there is nothing after our mortal life, including resurrection.

You limit God with this statement. You don't think He can remember who you were?

God knows how many hairs are on your head. God knew you before you were conceived. God knows you better than you know yourself. You don't think God can recreate you just the way you were?

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

If there is nothing remaining, then it seems to me that there would be nothing to resurrect. Without God all is vanity, and there is nothing after our mortal life, including resurrection.

Man, you are hard egg to crack.... teehe

Look, what was Adam before he became a living soul. From what did God make Adam of? The dirt of ground! And then He breathed into Adam the breath of life. When Adam died (note - died) He went back to dust where he came from. His life ended.

When God comes back He could simply fashion Adam out of the dust of the ground at the resurrection, but in a moment...in the twinkling of eye....God created Adam once, He can re-create him again....

There are many things God could do, and we can speculate all day about all His possible choices, and never be able to list all of them. I understand that the reverse of creation does seem logical. The body goes back to dust, and the spark of life or the spirit goes back to the creator. Is that correct, or maybe the spirit just ceases to exist? It seems to me that there are a couple of flaws in this logical sounding syllogism.

To start with, Eve was made from a rib. So, why don't women turn into ribs when they die? So the syllogism doesn't follow through logically at that point.

Then there is the breath of life. Does the breath of life just disappear? Or perhaps since there is a creator, maybe it does go to dwell with Him.

God in His resurrection has given us evidence that there is something left after death. His parables often claimed similarities between our finite world and that which is infinite.

But since we are speculating on something about which we really know very little, I would rather accept the few scriptures I quoted, and the many others which present the same view, than accept the logical sounding explanation of scholars who do not want to do an exegesis on the subject because it is to complicated.

I believe the Pagan and nature religions were not correct. I believe most of Christianity is not correct. But I also believe the SDAs and Jehovah Witnesses, who try to use Ecclesiastes 9:5 as a proof text have missed the mark a little bit too. And I'm just basing my belief on the belief of the ancient Hebrew. If at some point the truth is revealed on this doctrine, then I will have no problem at all accepting the present truth.

[Robert]

The body goes back to dust, and the spark of life or the spirit goes back to the creator. Is that correct, or maybe the spirit just ceases to exist?

Metaphors....If I let someone borrow my car and he dies then the car returns to me. Does that mean it drives itself to my house? No, it means it's mine.

All life originates from God. In that context it's His...so you could say it returns to Him. But does it actually go back? No, God is life...He is the author of life. It is His.

Here's the thing, if you think something actually escapes death and returns to God that "thing" is holy. How so? Paul says, "flesh and blood cannot not inherit the kingdom of God". And Paul says, "I know in me dwelth nothing good". There's nothing in me that's naturally good or immortal. So if you say that something good goes back to God at death then there's something good in you. Well, that's legalism...because it denies that salvation is through Christ alone. The only way you can go to heaven is to be restored [glorified] at the resurrection. Until then you, the whole man, is sinful and when you die nothing escapes death.

[Robert]

To start with, Eve was made from a rib. So, why don't women turn into ribs when they die? So the syllogism doesn't follow through logically at that point.

Some translations say "from Adam's side". In other words woman came from man. "In Adam" the whole human race was made. Besides, even if Eve came from a rib that rib was made from the dust of the ground and returns to dust....So your argument is no good....

Rob

[John317]

If there is nothing remaining, then it seems to me that there would be nothing to resurrect. Without God all is vanity, and there is nothing after our mortal life, including resurrection.

Does the God who spoke the world into existence and who made us in the first place need "something remaining" in order to bring us back to life?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Robert

The biggest trick of Satan' date=' to me, will be over the state of the dead.

[/quote']

The only protection from the deceptions of Satan is our faith. Our faith that Jesus is God, and following His teachings, will be the sign of His people.

There are lots of people right now who are following the anti-Christ and they think they are following God. The anti-Christ teaches that the dead go to heaven or hell or purgatory right after death. He doesn't deny that Jesus is God. The anti-Christ mixes truth with error.

The man of sin is in the church. It is not obvious that the anti-Christ is an enemy of Christ. He appears to be a great friend and defender of the church and of Christ. He's been around for so long that the world has gotten used to him and has no fear of him.

There are only two ways anyone will know this: a close study of the word of God and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

[John317]

I understand that the reverse of creation does seem logical. The body goes back to dust, and the spark of life or the spirit goes back to the creator. Is that correct, or maybe the spirit just ceases to exist? It seems to me that there are a couple of flaws in this logical sounding syllogism.

To start with, Eve was made from a rib. So, why don't women turn into ribs when they die?

OK I see your point, but don't forget that the rib itself was made of dust. So even Eve herself-- and certainly all women descended from Eve-- was ultimately and essentially dust the same as the man she was made from.

Quote:

Then there is the breath of life. Does the breath of life just disappear? Or perhaps since there is a creator, maybe it does go to dwell with Him.

Notice that it says "spirit," or breath of life, of all dead people returns to God. That would include the spirit of a criminal as well as that of a "saint." No distinction is made.

The breath of life is not an individual entity. It has no ability to think or talk. It has no will.

We all share the same breath of life. The breath of life is what God breathed through our nostrils that started the life process. It is power or energy. We began breathing and our heart started beating. There's absolutely nothing in the Bible to indicate that this breath of life is itself alive and thinking and aware or that it has individuality or personality.

You only have a living soul when the breath of life and the body are together-- the same way you only have light when the electrical current is in the light bulb.

When the electrical current is removed from the bulb, where does the light go?

It is the same with the person when we stop breathing. The Bible says that when we stop breathing, our thoughts perish and we return to dust (eventually).

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And I'm just basing my belief on the belief of the ancient Hebrew.

The ancient Hebrews did not believe in the immortality of the soul. That was a foreign concept to them. The Hebrews saw the human being as a whole, not as a body that had a spirit in it that could live apart from the body. That was an idea that came from the Egyptians, the Babylonians, and the Greeks.

That is why the Athenians laughed at Paul when he spoke of the resurrection of the body. For them there was no reason for the resurrection of the body since they saw death as another form of existence. But Paul said, in 1 Cor. 15: 18, that apart from the resurrection, there is absolutely no hope whatsoever. That can only mean that there is nothing of us that is in heaven after death. If there was-- if a part of me goes to be with God after my death-- then I do not absolutely require the resurrection in order to have any hope. My hope may well become my knowledge that something of me survives death and goes to be with God after my body dies.

But the statement of Paul denies this clearly and outright. No hope for us without the resurrection of the body. Why? Because we have no existence apart from the resurrection of the body. That is when we return to life. Until then we are not only dead but we have no existence. Our only hope is Jesus Christ. We have life in Christ, but without Him, we have exactly nothing.

[jasd]

>>He doesn't deny that Jesus is God. The anti-Christ mixes truth with error.

The man of sin is in the church. It is not obvious that the anti-Christ is an enemy of Christ. He appears to be a great friend and defender of the church and of Christ. He's been around for so long that the world has gotten used to him and has no fear of him.<<

You'll have to excuse my frowardness, John317 - but the above sounds like just so much doctrinal rote

[John317]

Yes, this was an unusual event. It also goes to prove, as did the story of king Saul and the witch of Endor, that a dead prophet of God is more powerful than a live king.

That is one of the dangers of believing that the dead can really contact the living. This belief leaves people open to all kinds of deceptions of Satan. If I believe that the dead can truly talk to me about life on the other side, I will believe virtually anything they tell me, especially if they can "prove" that they are real and know what they are talking about.

It can also leave me open to their lies about "salvation." In fact, such a belief can eventually cause me to put more trust in what the dead spirits say than in what God's word says. This was Eve's problem. She trusted the talking snake more than the word of God.

Today there are millions who put more trust in those other sources than in the Bible.

If you tell them what the Bible teaches, they will not have any interest; but if you tell them that the spirit of their father or mother delivered a message, they will immediately want to know what "he" or "she" said.

If they deliver a message that says they are happy even though they weren't a believer in Christ, and even though they never repented of their sins-- then it strongly suggests that the Bible is wrong.

In summary, then, the belief that spirits of the dead, such as Samuel, can talk to the living, leads to distrust in God and greater trust in those communications from beyond the grave. We will even believe that the spirit of a faithful, obedient prophet disobeyed God in order to obey the summons of a witch, all so that it could talk to a king whom God forbade the prophet to talk to while the prophet was alive.

[John317]

>>He doesn't deny that Jesus is God. The anti-Christ mixes truth with error.

The man of sin is in the church. It is not obvious that the anti-Christ is an enemy of Christ. He appears to be a great friend and defender of the church and of Christ. He's been around for so long that the world has gotten used to him and has no fear of him.<<

You'll have to excuse my frowardness, John317 - but the above sounds like just so much doctrinal rote

That is what happens to some people when they have lived so close and so long to the snake that they no longer believe that it's deadly or even alive. You've heard the "same ol' same ol'" so long that you no longer hear. There are children who are the same as regards the dangers their parents tell them about. It's like calling wolf. Pretty soon no one responds to the danger signals. The danger is there but many people no longer believe it or respond.

[jasd]

>>That is what happens to some people when they have lived so close and so long to the snake that they no longer believe that it's deadly or even alive. You've heard the "same ol' same ol'" so long that you no longer hear. There are children who are the same as regards the dangers their parents tell them about. It's like calling wolf. Pretty soon no one responds to the danger signals. The danger is there but many people no longer believe it or respond.<<

You'll have to excuse my frowardness, John317 - but the above sounds like just so much doctrinal rote

You know that "antichrist" is found only in the writings of St John - and, as he sets forth its saliency - we are advised that the Catholic pope cannot be the antichrist. You err in two points

when you state that the antichrist "is in the church" - intimating that he is to be found within the .org of Catholicism - and when you do so in direct confutation of St John, you lay, by colour, an unsustainable charge to your brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. The antichrist may be in the church,

but in the guise of other than the Catholic pope; that said, one concedes that the next pope may fit the paradigm re antichrist, which St John established.

[jasd]

>>But Paul said, in 1 Cor. 15: 18, that apart from the resurrection, there is absolutely no hope whatsoever.<<

! Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Tense.

>>That can only mean that there is nothing of us that is in heaven after death.<<

...tandem a numinous premise.

>>If there was-- if a part of me goes to be with God after my death--<<

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never (double negative) die ... Jn 11:26

So, the emphatic double negative is Jesus Christ misspeaking? If not, where then indeed does the living believing saint "go ... after death"?

>>...then I do not absolutely require the resurrection in order to have any hope. My hope may well become my knowledge that something of me survives death and goes to be with God after my body dies<<

Hypothesis. Besides, Jesus Christ risen is marked

'paid' – for, priorly, both the hopeful and the hopeless.

[John317]

>>That is what happens to some people when they have lived so close and so long to the snake that they no longer believe that it's deadly or even alive. You've heard the "same ol' same ol'" so long that you no longer hear. There are children who are the same as regards the dangers their parents tell them about. It's like calling wolf. Pretty soon no one responds to the danger signals. The danger is there but many people no longer believe it or respond.<<

You'll have to excuse my frowardness, John317 - but the above sounds like just so much doctrinal rote

You know that "antichrist" is found only in the writings of St John - and, as he sets forth its saliency - we are advised that the Catholic pope cannot be the antichrist. You err in two points

when you state that the antichrist "is in the church" - intimating that he is to be found within the .org of Catholicism - and when you do so in direct confutation of St John, you lay, by colour, an unsustainable charge to your brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. The antichrist may be in the church,

but in the guise of other than the Catholic pope; that said, one concedes that the next pope may fit the paradigm re antichrist, which St John established.

I'm amazed that you could be aware of SDA doctrines and still think that saying what I did is a "charge to" brothers and sisters in Christ.

The word "anti-christ" is indeed found only in the writings of Saint John, but that is not of any real importance. What's important is that the concept is found also in the books of Daniel and in 2 Thess, as well as in other portions of Scripture. The antichrist is the same power as the little-horn power and the man of sin. These are all speaking of the same system or power that seeks to take the place of Christ and to stamp out the truth of the gospel.

I'd like to know how you arrive at the conclusion that the Pope cannot possibly be the antichrist.

It's fairly easily sustainable if a person is willing to look at history and at the books of Daniel and Rev.

AS a matter of fact, there is no other power in history that fits all the characteristics (about 11 of them) the Bible gives us.

I have family who are Catholics. What I say is not an attack on them because I am not talking about individuals. I am talking about a system of beliefs and doctrines. The Catholics I know aren't even aware of these things, and therefore God does not hold them accountable the way He would me if I gave my support to that system.

As for doctrinal "rote," I can't help how it sounds to you. I am expressing what I believe after studying this issue intensely for over 35 years.

It may sound that way to you for all sorts of personal reasons. I do not know. All I am saying is that there are very good, solid reasons, both biblical and historical, for believing what I am saying. There was a time, as you know, when practically the entire Protestant world believe what I'm saying on this topic. Guess who and what changed-- not the Catholic church or the papacy, and certainly not the Bible or the facts of history.

The books of Daniel and Revelation as well as the Gospels show that we can't expect that everyone who hears the Third Angels Messages will believe them or accept them. In fact, on the contrary, it tells us that very few can be expected to believe and put them into practice. If someone is unwilling to do that, they could conceivably have the truth taught to them year in and year out and they would not "hear" it even though they have good ears. Sadly and tragically they might even come to the point where they would laugh at it. But consider how many laughed at Noah, at Jesus and at Elijah and Elisha. The Bible shows that majority of the people are wrong most of the time. You can't go by the numbers or by whether something is believed by many people.

[oldsailor29]

There are lots of people right now who are following the anti-Christ and they think they are following God. The anti-Christ teaches that the dead go to heaven or hell or purgatory right after death. He doesn't deny that Jesus is God. The anti-Christ mixes truth with error.

I know some churches teach that sinners burn in hell forever when they die. Some churches teach that the righteous go to heaven when they die. And of course everybody knows the Catholic church teaches that most people go to purgatory when they die. I don't believe any of those doctrines.

I started to type out some Biblical exegesis on the beliefs of the Hebrews, but wisely decided all that effort would be wasted. Sheol is used over 60 times in the Old Testament, translated as "hell," "pit," and "grave." In most cases it is referring to the underworld realm of the dead. Where the dead sleep. And it is not a physical place. It is a place where the souls of the dead, both righteous and sinners, go to await resurrection and judgment. This was the belief of the ancient Hebrews.

I feel like I have been falsely accused of advocating contact with spirits of the dead. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was raised in the SDA church, and the Lord has blessed me on many occasions. I was once present in a house where the occupants were trying to use an ouija board. It didn't work for them while I was there, but I didn't stay very long. Later they told me it started working after I left. Guarding against having other gods is very important to me. I have read horoscopes, but I haven't read one in many years, and many times do not even open a fortune cookie. I do not by any stretch of the imagination condone consulting mediums, necromancers, witches, or any other satanic ritualist. I do not use good luck charms, or forward e-mail that promises blessings. To do so would be having other gods. I have faith that God will protect me from the curses which are called for because I don't forward the e-mails. But if He doesn't, I will serve Him anyway. I know what spiritualism is, and I know that existentialism is part of the theology of spiritualism, and Satan is the founder of both. And those who hate me are not servants of God.

However, the Bible does not say a demon posed as Samuel for the witch of Endor and Saul. So I have to just take it as it reads, with the knowledge that sometimes God gives us what we ask for even though it might be an unwise request.

[John317]

>>But Paul said, in 1 Cor. 15: 18, that apart from the resurrection, there is absolutely no hope whatsoever.<<

! Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Tense.

Yes, the apostle is talking about the dead-- those who have died. He is not talking about those who are alive. He is talking about anyone who died between the time of Adam and the last person who died maybe a few seconds before Paul wrote the sentence. He is talking about anyone who is dead. That includes thousands who had died after the death and resurrection of Christ.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

There are lots of people right now who are following the anti-Christ and they think they are following God. The anti-Christ teaches that the dead go to heaven or hell or purgatory right after death. He doesn't deny that Jesus is God. The anti-Christ mixes truth with error.

I feel like I have been falsely accused of advocating contact with spirits of the dead. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was raised in the SDA church, and the Lord has blessed me on many occasions.

My post about the dangers of belief in the immortality of soul merely summarizes the problems involved in it and isn't directed at any one individual.

The same dangers would face me, too, if I started believing that the dead are conscious and can contact the living. So it isn't intended as a personal criticism, and certainly not an accusation, of anyone.

[John317]

... the Bible does not say a demon posed as Samuel for the witch of Endor and Saul. So I have to just take it as it reads, with the knowledge that sometimes God gives us what we ask for even though it might be an unwise request.

According to the narrative, who was Eve talking to? (See Gen. 3: 1-15.)

My point is that just because the Bible does not come out and plainly identify the culprit does not mean we should assume it wasn't Satan who was behind the scenes. He is a little bit like a puppeteer in some ways. There are many examples of his work and influence that way in the books of Daniel and Revelation, to say nothing of the historical narratives and the prophets. For instance, remember the king of Tyre and how the Bible suddenly shifts the focus to the one who is behind the king of Tyre and using him.

[oldsailor29]

My post about the dangers of belief in the immortality of soul merely summarizes the problems involved in it and isn't directed at any one individual.

The same dangers would face me, too, if I started believing that the dead are conscious and can contact the living. So it isn't intended as a personal criticism, and certainly not an accusation, of anyone.

When I am quoted, and then your post says that Satan believes the same thing, then I am being identified with Satan. That is an attack on me.

John says he saw the souls of the martyrs under the altar, crying to God for vengeance on their murderers. That does not sound like unconsciousness to me. Isaiah says chiefs and kings in Sheol rise up and speak to the dead oppressor as he descends into Sheol. That doesn't sound like unconscious to me either. And there are many other texts to which I could refer, that depict souls of the dead as being somewhat conscious. God Himself taught object lessons using a parable which had a dead rich man speaking from the grave. Unconscious? Not there. Now tell me, where is the danger in believing that souls of the dead are sleeping in Sheol awaiting resurrection?

Having said this, I would advise, do not try to contact any soul of the dead. God strictly forbids doing that. And do not be deceived, the souls of the dead are sleeping, and will never try to contact anyone who is living. But I believe we must acknowledge that God can awaken the dead, and have them deliver a message, if He wants to do so. But as He said to the rich man in the parable, even if Moses came back from the grave and preached the gospel, those who don't believe a modern prophet would not believe Moses either.

And finally, in the grand scheme of things, whether souls of the dead are slightly conscious or not, does not have anything to do with our salvation. So, we face no danger of losing salvation even if we do not believe as you do. And you face no danger of losing salvation for believing souls are unconscious. As long as we have no other gods, abide by the golden rule, and follow Jesus, we will be saved.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

And do not be deceived, the souls of the dead are sleeping, and will never try to contact anyone who is living. But I believe we must acknowledge that God can awaken the dead, and have them deliver a message, if He wants to do so.

You contradict yourself. Also, why would God EVER use the dead as a means to send a message? He strictly forbids having anything to do with the dead.

Something you must keep in mind. We are mortal!!

"Shall mortal man be more just than God Shall a man be more pure than his Maker?" --Job 4:17

"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. " --Rev 16:3

Souls can die....

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. " --Ezek 18:4

The sinning soul will die...

What is a soul?

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. " --Gen 2:7

It is a combination of dirt and Gods breath. That is it. That makes a soul...

This whole immortal soul garbage is another one of Satan's satanic doctrines that he is fooling the world with. I am already seeing a fulfilled prophecy given by EGW...

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The saints must get a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead, for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them that the Sabbath has been changed, also other unscriptural doctrines. --EW 87

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundations of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. --GC 588

All these people who claim our Creator needs to grab our floating "soul" needs to take a better look. You may not think this is important but it is very important. If you are confused on this, Satan will use it against you any way he can.

Don't limit our Creator. He remembers everything about you. Can put you back together from nothing. He doesn't need to reach down into "hell" to grab some floating soul...

He knew us before we were conceived. Does that mean our souls were floating around somewhere?!

I can't stress this enough...

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Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. --Eccl 12:7

[speaking of God] Who only hath immortality... --1 Tim 6:16

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. --Eccl 9:5

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. --Eccl 9:10

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. --Psalms 115:17

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

--1 Tim 4:1

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:" --Rev 6:9

If you are taking that as literal. Was there also a huge Pale horse running around murdering people and creatures of the earth? It is a metaphor my friend.

[BobRyan]

BTW - "and every living soul in the sea" dying has to do with animal life - a case where the soul does die at the first death. No "second death" for animals.

But in the case of humans "The soul the sins IT shall die" Ezek 18 points to the soul that does NOT sin - LIVING because the context is the SECOND death - not the FIRST death.

Furthermore - in Matt 10:27 "Do NOT fear those who KILL the body but are UNNABLE to kill the SOUL" - that is to say that the soul survives the first death for humans -- albeit in a dormant state.

So Peter says in 2Peter 1 that his about to lay down this "earthly tent" this "earthly dwelling" -- he does not say "I am about to cease to exist". The dwelling is something he HAS - not something he IS. You see the same thing in 1Cor 15 and 2Cor 5 -- the earthly body, the earthly dwelling is something we HAVE not something we ARE.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

BTW - those groups that do teach "immortality of the soul" do NOT teach that the soul is in a dormant unconscious state between the first and second death - and do NOT teach that "Both soul AND body are Destroyed in fiery hell" the Lake of Fire event of Rev 20.

Just for context and perspective.

in Christ,

Bob