When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[Woody]

Quote:

you get into that Kingdom by becoming righteous, which happens through the process of Sanctification, which comes through the power of the Holy Spirit, and not by faith through grace.

I've heard it all now.

[Richard Holbrook]

The gospel according to Dr. Rich?

Such confusion.

[Richard Holbrook]

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

[Dr. Rich]

Rich4Truth wrote: "The gospel according to Dr. Rich? Such confusion." As I pointed out before and like what God said to Daniel--"Only The Wise will understand (not be confused)" So don't give up, keep searching for the truth--that is what I am doing.

Oh, you have it wrong--what I am and have been writing about is the same thing that Jesus said to build your house upon--and that is the words of Jesus--and NO ONE else! Not even mine!

Actually, I suppose I was a little nieve by thinking that these kind SDA folks here on this forum would be hungry for this 'food being fed at the proper time'-Boy! was I wrong about that!

[John317]

Quote:

you get into that Kingdom by becoming righteous, which happens through the process of Sanctification, which comes through the power of the Holy Spirit, and not by faith through grace.

I've heard it all now.

Justification and salvation come to us by God's grace through faith in Christ's merits. Faith in Jesus makes the believer become "obedient to all the commandments of God." No one can be reconciled to God and at the same time not be reconciled to God's holy law.

Under the New Covenant, the Ten Commandments are ten promises. Under the Old Covenant, they are viewed as ten fear-laden negative burdens.

[Richard Holbrook]

Are you SDA Dr. Rich?

[Richard Holbrook]

Quote:

Justification and salvation come to us by God's grace through faith in Christ's merits. Faith in Jesus makes the believer become "obedient to all the commandments of God." No one can be reconciled to God and at the same time not be reconciled to God's holy law.

I agree

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

You haven't told me a thing....Explain the gospel....For that you need Paul

How absurd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Any body saved before Paul wrote his epistles?

The One who said, "I am the Light of the world" did not have it right?

Moses? Habakkuk? Isaiah? The GOSPEL writers?

So when Christ says, "This gospel shall be preached to the whole world for a witness...." Gerry's reply is "how absurd"?

What was difficult for me to believe you said & find absurd is your statement: "Explain the gospel...For that you need Paul."

Try John 3:16, Lk 15 for starters.

[Richard Holbrook]

Hey Gerry, My people come from North Wilksboro, NC (traphill)

Last name's Holbrook

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Is EGW your pope? You seem to use her as your authority a lot.

No, but on many things she is right....Now, again, since you didn't answer my question, where's the self-love in the following:

"You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth."

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation."

Since you think she is in error in a number of areas, how do you know what you are quoting is the correct one?

BTW, check my response before the above post that I am responding to now.

If she is concerned about self-respect, she must think we are not completely oblivious to self!

[Richard Holbrook]

Who are you talking to? Robert ain't here.

[John317]

Rich4Truth wrote: "The gospel according to Dr. Rich? Such confusion." As I pointed out before and like what God said to Daniel--"Only The Wise will understand (not be confused)" So don't give up, keep searching for the truth--that is what I am doing.

Oh, you have it wrong--what I am and have been writing about is the same thing that Jesus said to build your house upon--and that is the words of Jesus--and NO ONE else! Not even mine!

Actually, I suppose I was a little nieve by thinking that these kind SDA folks here on this forum would be hungry for this 'food being fed at the proper time'-Boy! was I wrong about that!

Your error is to try to drive a wedge between the Paul and Christ and make it appear that Paul is a liar. That can only have one meaning. Gal. 1: 8, 9. Paul also wrote, "If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord." 1 Cor. 14: 37. Therefore when a person says that this is a lie, we do well to take notice.

Christians hear the voice of Christ to their souls as they study the New Testament. It is the Holy Spirit convicting them that they are reading the word of God.

John 10: 27 says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

Those who are Christ's sheep hear the words of their great Shepherd as they read the words of Scripture, and they are convinced that these words are in fact the words of their Lord.

In 1 Timothy 5: 18, Paul calls the words in Deut. 25: 4 and those of Jesus in Luke 10: 7 "scripture." This shows how early the writings included in the NT were placed on the same level of authority as those of the Old Testament.

[Dr. Rich]

Rich4Truth, I have been a staunch SDA for over 60 years. And I would never change because the 144,000 come from this group also known as the Kingdom of Heaven now on this earth as found in Matthew 25. Please know that the message I preach and teach will NEVER go away for it is the one that will be preached around the world--and then Jesus will come. I don't expect many to receive it kindly and if you have even taken a peek at Revelation you will notice that it is the deeds (works) of the saints (the 144k) who get killed because of what they teach and preach.

However, I have accepted the position of being a bondservant for Jesus since He was the one that 'bonded' me out of the payment for sin. NO, I have not been set free from sin yet. And no, I have not yet been born again as a spiritual being, being a brother of Jesus. Actually, no one has as far as I know.

The one thing I most certainly know is that every prophecy Jesus has given us regarding the end days is and will come true. The prophecy about the wheat and the tares was so truthful that I am finding that the tares (those who built their house upon Paul’s gospel) are refusing to turn themselves into wheat even when they have the information presented to them. How sad! But, I am willing to do anything for them, even die for them if this is what it would take to get them to change.

Try this: Next time when in church, look around at the friends you have and then split them in half. Then try to think how you will feel about them being part of the five foolish maids who will not be with you in heaven. This is forever too! Perhaps then you will understand why Jeremiah pulled his hair out. From what I read in these posts I don’t think many of you have any idea what is about to ‘hit the fan’!

[wayfinder]

There wasn't a "New Testament" until the first council of Nicaea convened and decided what would be included in the Christian Canon. in 325 AD, this was long after Paul was dead.

[Richard Holbrook]

Dr. Rich, thanks for sharing, but I don't know where you get this belief. I think I know what you believe from reading your posts, but I don't know why. It seems to come from nowhere.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And please notice also what she says: "we must be governed by heavenly principles HERE." So if your interpretation is correct, you should/must give ALL your goodies to your neighbor here and now, not wait till heaven where it is meaningless to give someone what you have because no has lack of anything there.

That's just another way of saying agape will be seen in the life of the believer. That's why she said "less self-seeking", etc....All of us are falling short of God's agape love, yet in the life of the believer a change will be seen. This couldn't be possible under law.

And how is this change manifested? How do we know there has been a change?

[Gerr]

Hey Gerry, My people come from North Wilksboro, NC (traphill)

Last name's Holbrook

Steve and and Sylvia are good friends. I think we're having them over for Sabbath dinner. How are you related?

[John317]

There wasn't a "New Testament" until the first council of Nicaea convened and decided what would be included in the Christian Canon. in 325 AD, this was long after Paul was dead.

The books which make up the New Testament were written long before 325 AD and they were accepted by the churches as Scriptures. The truth is that the councils did not decide what books were Scripture but they merely accepted what the various Christians congregations had already decided. Christians had been making these decisions for a long time before the councils met.

[Dr. Rich]

John, you have posted some great stuff, but when you call me a liar or that I error-I will dare you like I have everyone else to prove it from the words of Jesus--not from Paul's! Now there is a real rock to build your house upon!

May I also point out that the way you think, John, is the same way people think about Joseph Smith and Mohammed—they are darned toot’n stubborn! As what Jesus was attempting to tell all of you who built your belief house upon others—the storm is coming—wake up or He will come when you are sleeping and be forever left out of the sheep fold.

Come on John, Paul was no Jesus even if he said that Jesus didn't suffer enough so that he had to finish the suffering in Colossians 1:24. What he wrote or said about him being an apostle is only his word against mine. Test the words of Paul and you will find they are NOT the same as what Jesus wrote. Paul’s gospel was alleged to be for the gentiles—but the gentiles are NOT the Kingdom of Heaven—they are the kingdom of the world—and the king of this world is Satan!

If you would do your homework, you will see that Jesus told only his disciples to go to the whole world. Please read Matthew 28:18,19,& 20. Now if that is not plain enough, what is it that will get your attention?

[Richard Holbrook]

Originally Posted By: Rich4truth

Hey Gerry, My people come from North Wilksboro, NC (traphill)

Last name's Holbrook

Steve and and Sylvia are good friends. I think we're having them over for Sabbath dinner. How are you related?

Steve is my uncle.

[Dr. Rich]

Rich4truth wrote: “Dr. Rich, thanks for sharing, but I don't know where you get this belief. I think I know what you believe from reading your posts, but I don't know why. It seems to come from nowhere.”

You are welcome. Your last statement strikes me with laughter since that is the same thing the Jews told Jesus. If you will check out some of my past posts then you will see that this did not just come out of nowhere—but form an intensive 15 years study put together by intellects from the Calimesa SDA Church because of errors they found with Ellen White. The two places that caused the problems were Dan. 12:10 and Rev. 1:1-3.

Knowing that only the ‘wise’ living in the last generation would actually understand end times prophecy and believing that we are the last generation, we determined that we wanted to be among the wise and among the bondservants-them being the same group. Also knowing that what was being preached and taught in all of our churches and schools was the same old thing given to us by people who have long been dead, and God said they could not have been right, our study was the most eye-opening thing I have ever seen! Many dropped out. We were told many times that there is nothing new to learn, but almost every week that went by we were learning new things by first studying the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses.

We didn’t find that Paul was a false apostle until we discovered the test. I fought this one, because I came back into religion because of Paul’s writings. But being as honest as I could, I prayed and promised to follow only what Jesus’ words testified too. So hang in there and keep up searching for the truth seekers will not be disappointed.

[wayfinder]

John: Read the history. There were many "Christian" scriptures, among these were, Gnostic gospels, Messianic gospels, Coptic gospels, Acts of John, Acts of Paul, Acts of Peter, Acts of Pilate, Acts of Thecla, Acts of Thomas, 1 Clement, 2 Clement, 3 Corinthians, Correspondence of Paul and Seneca, The Didache, Epistle of Barnabas, Letter to the Laodiceans, Letter of Peter to James and its Reception, Letter of Ptolemy to Flora, The Preaching of Peter, Pseudo-Clementine Literature, Pseudo-Titus, Treatise on the Resurrection, Apocalypse of Paul, Apocalypse of Peter, Epistle of the Apostles, Gospel according to the Hebrews, Gospel of the Ebionites, to name a few! The first Ecumenical council of Nicea convened by order of Constantine I to get control of the plethora of Christian material and determine what was Canon (Kanon-Greek word meaning measuring line or ruler). Constantine did this so he could control what was "authoritative" Christian teaching.

[Robert]

>>"He was made under the law (condemned)"<<

Rob: Precisely what do you mean by this statement?

Are you saying that the law condemned Him or that He somehow broke the law and was condemned by it or didn't break it yet was condemned by it?

Before I answer this let me ask you a question: Does the Holy Spirit, who is Deity, stand condemned for being in you?

[Dr. Rich]

John, you are good, but you are way out of your league with this issue. You state what you think is truth but history proves you are wrong. Why? because I used to think like you at one time until I got into the research on all of the writings that were being passed around in the groups who were called 'churches' between when Paul wrote and the council of Nicea. I doubt it very much if ANY of our SDA bible teachers or college theology teachers have read what we have in our little study group. Why? they had/have ONE agenda and that was to teach what they learned--just so they could bake a bunch more little cookies. (And so they could keep getting a pay check.)

Now here is a real fact: I challenge anyone in the world to debate and argue over the issues in regards to the bible! I am saying this now so that everyone will know that I mean business here! I am not a bondservant for nothing! No, I don't know everything, but I do know the ONE that does. But--I also know that the time is not yet here for this to get out so all of you here on this forum are the first to be presented with this information. Enjoy

[Robert]

If Paul is the one that supplies the details about the gospel that is to be preached in all the world before the end will come and we are still here on earth after nearly 2000 years of preaching the gospel of Paul then it is apparent that we have been preaching THE WRONG GOSPEL.