Seeking/arriving at Truth

[Gerr]

We all claim to be seeking the truth. The promise is: "You will seek Me & find Me, when you seek Me with all your heart." And the Holy Spirit was promised to lead us into truth.

How then can we arrive at such diametrically opposed positions?

No way I can believe these Babel of teachings expressed in these discussion threads are all inspired by the same Spirit.

[Musicman1228]

This is a much needed discussion, thanks for starting it.

Gerry, you are absolutely correct when you said that even though we are all seeking truth we are not all coming to the same conclusions. I believe that the Holy Spirit is trying to guide all of us into truth which is unifying, but the problem as I see it is that we don't always listen to the true Spirit of God but listen to the false 'holy' spirit believing that what it is saying is the truth.

Jesus said, "See to it that no one deceive you." Matt.24:4.

Many people on this forum do not believe that they can be deceived. They KNOW they have the truth and everyone that does not believe as do they are spouting lies. I don't doubt for a minute that they are sincere as the day is long, but often (in my experience) sincerity masks hubris, and hubris leads people into believing a lie as if it is the truth.

Therefore, my question: How does one keep from being deceived?

[Woody]

We all claim to be seeking the truth. The promise is: "You will seek Me & find Me, when you seek Me with all your heart." And the Holy Spirit was promised to lead us into truth.

How then can we arrive at such diametrically opposed positions?

No way I can believe these Babel of teachings expressed in these discussion threads are all inspired by the same Spirit.

It's simple Gerry. I always am filled with the Holy Spirit when I search the scriptures and the rest of you are obviously not.

Seriously .... The Holy Spirit realizes that we are all at different walks of life. We all need to be taught different things as a priority in our life. Only the Holy Spirit knows this. Most of what we discuss here is not important. What I mean is that the fact that Jesus Christ came and died for my sins ... that is primiary. The rest .... can be understood as other priorities are clear.

How we treat our neighbor for instance is far more important than knowing most of what we discuss here. The Holy Spirit has a work for us to do. And it just may not be primary to be Biblical scholars. You can worship on Sunday and still be saved. The Holy Spirit just may not have Sabbath worship as a priority for everyone.

[skyblue888]

You can worship on Sunday and still be saved. The Holy Spirit just may not have Sabbath worship as a priority for everyone.

hahahahahaha

Red your a [name deleted by moderator], nothing but a [name deleted by moderator] who thinks that the Gospel is like a wax nose that you can shape any way you wish. hehehe

[Woody]

Quote:

You can worship on Sunday and still be saved. The Holy Spirit just may not have Sabbath worship as a priority for everyone.

hahahahahaha

Red your a [name deleted by moderator], nothing but a [name deleted by moderator] who thinks that the Gospel is like a wax nose that you can shape any way you wish. hehehe

This is being reported to the moderator. We will see if this type of attack on one's character is allowed. I will be very curious. It cetainly is un Christian. It is also against the rules. But will it be tolerated? Let's see. Tune back in.

This should be very instructive to know how we should behave on this forum.

[Guest]

That's right dgrimm, we need to spend time alone with God and his word everyday, praying for guidance from the Holy Spirit.

[skyblue888]

I don't expect there could ever be unity of belief here. This place, like any other adventist forum, is a hodgepodge of a few sincere seekers for truth, many who are not too concerned about finding the truth or not, others who may be here only because they are retired and are bored out of their wits and have nothing else to do, hehehe and yes, thank the Lord, others who are so interested and excited about finding what it is that they must do or believe in order to be saved that at all cost, they must, with all their God-given powers, make sure to make the truth of none effect as soon as it is presented in clear, distinct lines.

So this place, as any other adventist forum, is a battle ground between the forces of good and evil, a battle-ground where eternal destinies are decided.

Because "When light begins to shine forth to make clear the plan of redemption to the people, the enemy works with all diligence that the light may be shut away from the hearts of men." 1 S.M.360.

"Satan is working with all his hellish power to quench that light which should burn brightly in the soul and shine forth in good works. He is working against this all the time. Satan will work to quench the light God has for every soul, by casting his shadow across the pathway to intercept every ray of heavenly light. He knows his time is short." MS 140, 1901.

"With all possible deception he will manifest his power, calling to his aid all the fallen angels of his realm." G.C.398.

So if we are serious about our eternal destiny, we cannot afford not to be wide awake. Mrs. White was shown that the "latter rain" would be falling all around us and many won't even know that it is falling.

"It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it." T.M.507.

sky

[Stan]

You can worship on Sunday and still be saved. The Holy Spirit just may not have Sabbath worship as a priority for everyone.

hahahahahaha

Red your a [name deleted by moderator], nothing but a [name deleted by moderator] who thinks that the Gospel is like a wax nose that you can shape any way you wish. hehehe

I want to make this very plain and very clear.

Cease calling people names. No warning just cease.

It is my opinion that those with little substance have to use attacks.

Answer me this My Skyblue.

You don't worship on Sunday? I do, I also worship on Monday and every other day during the week.

Re read the fourth commandment, it is not about worship it is about rest. Reread it. It does not say go to Church for 1-2 hours is keeping the Sabbath.

As much as Redwood likes to find my remaining nerves somedays, it is wrong to call him silly names.

It is even more wrong to cause this admin, who is in route between two cities, to have to pull over and deal with issue.

[Gail]

Ditto what Stan said.

Remember what Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang on: the two big commandments- You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul, and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.

The character of God is love. His followers shall be known by their love for each other.

What good is all the knowledge you have if you don't have this vital element.

That means dealing with others with courtesy and dignity.

[skyblue888]

"Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain." "He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain."

In the East the former rain falls in the sowing time. It is necessary in order that the seed may germinate. Under the influence of the fertilizing showers, the tender shoot springs up. The latter rain, falling near the close of the season, ripens the grain and prepares it for the sickle.

The Lord employs these operations of nature to represent the work of the Holy Spirit. As the dew and the rain are given first to cause the seed to germinate, and then to ripen the harvest, so the Holy Spirit is given to carry forward, from one stage to another, the process of spiritual growth. The ripening of the grain represents the completion of the work of God's grace in the soul.

By the power of the Holy Spirit the moral image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ." e.g.w

TO BE CONTINUED

[skyblue888]

"The latter rain, ripening earth's harvest, represents the spiritual grace that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man. But unless the former rain has fallen, there will be no life; the green blade will not spring up. Unless the early showers have done their work the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection.

There is to be 'first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.'

Many have in a great measure failed to receive the former rain. They have not obtained all the benefits that God has provided for them. They expect that the lack will be supplied by the latter rain. When the richest abundance of grace shall be bestowed, they intend to open their hearts to receive it. They are making a terrible mistake. The work that God has begun in the human heart in giving His light and knowledge must be continually going forward. Every individual must realize his own necessity. The heart must be emptied of every defilement and cleansed for the indwelling of the Spirit.

Only those who are living up to the light they have will receive greater light. Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it." Testimonies to Ministers, p.506,507.

sky

[skyblue888]

Ditto what Stan said.

Remember what Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang on: the two big commandments- You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul, and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.

The character of God is love. His followers shall be known by their love for each other.

What good is all the knowledge you have if you don't have this vital element.

That means dealing with others with courtesy and dignity.

Wow!!! Gail!!! Its been a long time since I heard from you! Don't worry I was only kidding. I took pain to make sure he understood I was only teasing him by adding smilies. I really thought he was just goofing around as he often does. hehe

How are you?

sky

Hey Stan, how are you? long time no see! I wasn't calling Red names! I was only saying that he was acting like a clown with a wax nose and I said it with a smile. Honest to God! I just noticed today that there are people really calling other people names like "wimps" or whatever and I don't hear anybody complaining to the moderators about that. I don't know what happened to Red this time. I guess I hit a raw nerve eventhough I was only laughing at what I thought was a joke he made about the Sabbath. You can rest assured that from now on I will refrain from teasing him. I thought he had a good sense of humour. But I guess I was wrong. Sorrrri! God bless,

sky

[Musicman1228]

Wow, this is very interesting in light of what I wrote earlier about a lying spirit masquerading as the real Holy Spirit. If you have not seen evidence of this happening before you now have all the evidence you need in what skyblue888 so ineloquently said to Redwood. And even with an attempt at an apology the hurt can linger a long time.

I spoke with a good friend this morning about this new thread and told him how excited I was that we on the forum were actually going to talk about seeking and arriving a Truth. It is a very important subject because truth is much more difficult to find than lies. Lies are everywhere, in virtually everything and everyone. You have to dig for the Truth, it just doesn't come easily. Yet there are people that take the search for truth so personally that when someone disagrees with them they react with disrespect and anger, and go immediately into the personal attack mode. It is my experience that when someone cannot answer a pointed question where they would be forced to give and answer they do not like or agree with they try to deflect the topic from that question to you as a person. This is the identifier of the working of the spirit of lies.

None of this need be personal. Even though we may disagree with each other I believe that we could sit down over lunch together and have a wonderful time. It is only those who are insecure in what they know to be true that must resort to personal attack when they are challenged on their view of Truth. My vote is that we keep this discussion on a higher plain.

[skyblue888]

Wow, this is very interesting in light of what I wrote earlier about a lying spirit masquerading as the real Holy Spirit. If you have not seen evidence of this happening before you now have all the evidence you need in what skyblue888 so ineloquently said to Redwood. And even with an attempt at an apology the hurt can linger a long time.

I spoke with a good friend this morning about this new thread and told him how excited I was that we on the forum were actually going to talk about seeking and arriving a Truth. It is a very important subject because truth is much more difficult to find than lies. Lies are everywhere, in virtually everything and everyone. You have to dig for the Truth, it just doesn't come easily. Yet there are people that take the search for truth so personally that when someone disagrees with them they react with disrespect and anger, and go immediately into the personal attack mode. It is my experience that when someone cannot answer a pointed question where they would be forced to give and answer they do not like or agree with they try to deflect the topic from that question to you as a person. This is the identifier of the working of the spirit of lies.

None of this need be personal. Even though we may disagree with each other I believe that we could sit down over lunch together and have a wonderful time. It is only those who are insecure in what they know to be true that must resort to personal attack when they are challenged on their view of Truth. My vote is that we keep this discussion on a higher plain.

You should not judge my motives musicman. I just explained that I used smilies when I said those words to Red. I thougth he was goofing around. So please lets leave it at that. Thanks

sky

[Bravus]

I've said it before here, but it's relevant to this thread:

"Trust those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

[skyblue888]

I've said it before here, but it's relevant to this thread:

"Trust those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

There is truth in this saying because there are many voices within Adventism claiming to have the truth for these last days. This is how the enemy would have it, simply because he knows that amid the confusing voices a special testimony will be borne, a special message of truth, which is appropriate for this time. He knows too well that if this special message of truth is received, believed, and acted upon, his power will be broken and the Holy Spirit will be able to do a wonderful work in and through the merits of Christ.

"Christ looked forward to the time when the Holy Spirit, as His representative, should come to do a wonderful work in and through His merits." T.M.402.

sky

[Stan]

Hurtful humour. Even with a 1000 smokies generally does not transfer well using text.

[skyblue888]

Hurtful humour. Even with a 1000 smokies generally does not transfer well using text.

Stan, Red misinterpreted what I said and overeacted. I did not see his reply until after I saw your message and Gail's message. He obviously thought I wrote my comment to hurt him. You have to admit that Red makes the funniest comments at times. I thought this one took the cake. That's all. Thats what made me think of a clown who can twist his nose wax. I borrowed this image from the writings of Luther who used it to describe some who were twisting the words of Scriptures in the days of the Reformation. We have become so sensitive. We could not have lived in the days of Luther as opponnents on both sides called each other the worse names and yet no one seemed to be offended by it.

sky

[Twilight]

Seeking and arriving at truth does not justify condoning error.

So many times we fall into the trap of "post-modernism", (your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth rubbish).

It is almost a crime to point out error nowadays.

------------------------------

I am constantly seeking truth and light, I know that there are things I do not understand, lots of them, but there are posters on this board I can learn from.

Other posters get a quick glance and quick response:

"Yep, usual load of rubbish that will just confuse and mislead."

-------------------------------

Seeking truth and turning a blind eye to error is not one and the same thing.

For instance, the constant nonsense on this board currently focuses around three errors:

1. The bible is only partially inspired.

2. SOP is only partially inspired.

3. We are saved in our sins.

This is nonsense and needs to be challenged and shown as nonsense.

So let us not confuse a person searching for light, with someone constantly trying to present error...

--------------------------------

Let us seek the truth and call error by its right name...

But let us also guard against those that seem to want to belittle the gospel in any way possible at every opportunity...

For that we need discernment, and that is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Mark :-)

[Guest]

Amen

[John317]

I spoke with a good friend this morning about this new thread and told him how excited I was that we on the forum were actually going to talk about seeking and arriving a Truth. It is a very important subject because truth is much more difficult to find than lies. Lies are everywhere, in virtually everything and everyone. You have to dig for the Truth, it just doesn't come easily. Yet there are people that take the search for truth so personally that when someone disagrees with them they react with disrespect and anger, and go immediately into the personal attack mode. It is my experience that when someone cannot answer a pointed question where they would be forced to give and answer they do not like or agree with they try to deflect the topic from that question to you as a person. This is the identifier of the working of the spirit of lies.

I agree with you, Musicman. Let me tell you that I appreciate very much that I have never seen you use those tactics, and based on what I've seen of you, I'm sure I never will see you use them.

Quote:

None of this need be personal. Even though we may disagree with each other I believe that we could sit down over lunch together and have a wonderful time. It is only those who are insecure in what they know to be true that must resort to personal attack when they are challenged on their view of Truth. My vote is that we keep this discussion on a higher plain.

Agree again, and would really enjoy doing that again some time.

[skyblue888]

Seeking and arriving at truth does not justify condoning error.

So many times we fall into the trap of "post-modernism", (your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth rubbish).

It is almost a crime to point out error nowadays.

------------------------------

I am constantly seeking truth and light, I know that there are things I do not understand, lots of them, but there are posters on this board I can learn from.

Other posters get a quick glance and quick response:

"Yep, usual load of rubbish that will just confuse and mislead."

-------------------------------

Seeking truth and turning a blind eye to error is not one and the same thing.

For instance, the constant nonsense on this board currently focuses around three errors:

1. The bible is only partially inspired.

2. SOP is only partially inspired.

3. We are saved in our sins.

This is nonsense and needs to be challenged and shown as nonsense.

So let us not confuse a person searching for light, with someone constantly trying to present error...

--------------------------------

Let us seek the truth and call error by its right name...

But let us also guard against those that seem to want to belittle the gospel in any way possible at every opportunity...

For that we need discernment, and that is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Mark :-)

And all the people said, Amen! :)

[Robert]

No way I can believe these Babel of teachings expressed in these discussion threads are all inspired by the same Spirit.

And there's part of the problem....You think your theology is the only correct one....Well, I've got some bad news....

As for me, I don't think I know it all, but what I know...I know....And that is the foundation for everything else....

Your theology is built on legalism....It law based, performance based, old covenant based....That's your foundation. Hence the house is built on sand...sinking sand.

My foundation is built on "the truth as it is in Christ"!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

No way I can believe these Babel of teachings expressed in these discussion threads are all inspired by the same Spirit.

And there's part of the problem....You think your theology is the only correct one....Well, I've got some bad news....

As for me, I don't think I know it all, but what I know...I know....And that is the foundation for everything else....

Your theology is built on legalism....It law based, performance based, old covenant based....That's your foundation. Hence the house is built on sand...sinking sand.

My foundation is built on "the truth as it is in Christ"!

I disagree with your summation.

Every time you have presented something that is part of your doctrince of "anti-legalistism", posters have corrected your position with clear biblical examples.

So I do not accept your position is what you claim...

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

And there's part of the problem....You think your theology is the only correct one....Well' date=' I've got some bad news....

As for me, I don't think I know it all, but what I know...I know....And that is the foundation for everything else....

Your theology is built on legalism....It law based, performance based, old covenant based....That's your foundation. Hence the house is built on sand...sinking sand.

My foundation is built on "the truth as it is in Christ"! [/quote']

I disagree with your summation.

Every time you have presented something that is part of your doctrince of "anti-legalistism", posters have corrected your position with clear biblical examples.

So I do not accept your position is what you claim...

Actually, no, they've attempted to correct me, but their theology is full of holes....