Jack Sequeira - Teacher of new light or Teacher of Error?

[Twilight]

Very funny. The way you read quotes .... it would be impossible to show you. You see through a different filter than what I read in the Gospel.

That is what we have been saying, you have put on a JS' filter and you cannot see anything else.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

As always ... your quotes have nothing to do with the topic and for certain .... do not prove the point. But I do like this part:

Quote:

"Works will never save us"

Exactly what I have been saying and Jack is saying ...

Sanctification will NOT save us. That was done by the doing and dying of Christ.

While sanctification does not save anyone, neither can anyone be saved without it!

Sanctification (holification, if I may coin a word) is the evidence of justification. They go hand in hand, just like faith & works. Works does not save, but it is the evidence that a person's faith is genuine.

That you Gerry. I do believe in what you have said. But as I have been saying .... ALL of us have sanctification. It is not possible to give your heart to Jesus and not start the process. Even the thief on the cross ... had sanctification. And once you start it ... it never stops. It is what it is. And God accepts whatever it is.

[Twilight]

I would also like to apologise for suggesting Redwood and Robert are the same person.

I see now that they had both so fully imbibed JS' teachings, that I assumed they were one and the same person.

Now I understand how they could have such similar theology, it is JS' theology.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

While sanctification does not save anyone, neither can anyone be saved without it!

Sanctification (holification, if I may coin a word) is the evidence of justification. They go hand in hand, just like faith & works.

Now consider this:

Jack: “The gospel of faith plus works, or justification

plus sanctification, is at the heart of Roman

Catholic theology. It is a subtle form of ‘legalism.’

”--Beyond Belief, 25.

I personally don't see any conflict. Jack and EGW and Gerry have all said that 'works' do not save us. Seems consistant to me.

[Guest]

If it can't stop, that's once saved always saved.

[Guest]

You can stop the process.

[Twilight]

If it can't stop, that's once saved always saved.

Exactly!

But if it is not maintained, then it stops!

How is it maintained?

Through obedience given by Christ.

:-)

[Woody]

If it can't stop, that's once saved always saved.

If you believed that your works saved you ... yes.

[Lutz13]

Quote:

Works does not save, but it is the evidence that a person's faith is genuine.

Amen!

"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works is dead. But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."(James 2:17-18) Our works are the fruit of our faith in Jesus. They are not something that is done to glorify ourselves, but Him above.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

If it can't stop, that's once saved always saved.

Exactly!

But if it is not maintained, then it stops!

How is it maintained?

Through obedience given by Christ.

:-)

No matter if it is in neutral or not. It is still the growth process of your lifetime. And we all fall short in that process.

[Woody]

You can stop the process.

The process is not complete till you die. It is the work of a lifetime. It is the total picture of your life.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Exactly!

But if it is not maintained, then it stops!

How is it maintained?

Through obedience given by Christ.

:-) [/quote']

No matter if it is in neutral or not. It is still the growth process of your lifetime. And we all fall short in that process.

But if you step out of the car, it will roll down the hill...

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

But if you step out of the car, it will roll down the hill...

It is still the work of your lifetime.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

You can stop the process.

The process is not complete till you die. It is the work of a lifetime. It is the total picture of your life.

Sanctification is received through obedience...

Not in spite of obedience...

Obedience to the law of God is sanctification. There are many who have erroneous ideas in regard to this work in the soul, but Jesus prayed that His disciples might be sanctified through the truth, and added, "Thy word is truth." Sanctification is not an instantaneous but a progressive work, as obedience is continuous. Just as long as Satan urges his temptations upon us, the battle for self-conquest will have to be fought over and over again; but by obedience, the truth will sanctify the soul. Those who are loyal to the truth will, through the merits of Christ, overcome all weakness of character which has led them to be molded by every varying circumstance of life. {TDG 148.2}

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

No matter if it is in neutral or not. It is still the growth process of your lifetime. And we all fall short in that process.

But if you step out of the car' date=' it will roll down the hill... [/quote']

It is still the work of your lifetime.

Only whilst you are in the car...

And sinning is stepping out of the car.

[Twilight]

Obedience to the law of God is sanctification. There are many who have erroneous ideas in regard to this work in the soul, but Jesus prayed that His disciples might be sanctified through the truth, and added, "Thy word is truth." Sanctification is not an instantaneous but a progressive work, as obedience is continuous. Just as long as Satan urges his temptations upon us, the battle for self-conquest will have to be fought over and over again; but by obedience, the truth will sanctify the soul. Those who are loyal to the truth will, through the merits of Christ, overcome all weakness of character which has led them to be molded by every varying circumstance of life. {TDG 148.2}

Obedience and Sanctifiction are linked with a finality that will endure eternity...

[Gerr]

Let us compare again:

Jack: “The gospel of faith plus works, or justification

plus sanctification, is at the heart of Roman

Catholic theology. It is a subtle form of ‘legalism.’

”--Beyond Belief, 25.

---------------------------

There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God's Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. . . . Faith and works go hand in hand. . . . Works will never save us; it is the merit of Christ that will avail in our behalf. Through faith in Him, Christ will make all our imperfect efforts acceptable to God. The faith we are required to have is not a do-nothing faith; saving faith is that which works by love and purifies the soul. He who will lift up holy hands to God without wrath and doubting will walk intelligently in the way of God's commandments. {TMK 229.2}

It is not faith PLUS works that we need. IT IS FAITH THAT WORKS!

[skyblue888]

Absolutely, it is the faith that works that we need, the faith that works by love through faith in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. See 1 S.M.354.

My experience for the last 30 years has shown me that many of these debates we are having today over justfication and sanctification are still the same old arguments and counter-arguments which profit very little. As a result we have become a people as dry as the hills of Gilboa, wthout dew or rain. I am convinced that the reason these debates continue to go on and on with little results, if any, is because the simple message the Lord sent to us in 1888 is still ignored and made little of.

In the years that preceded the 1888 General Conference at Minneapolis, the theologians, the ministers, church members, conservatives and liberals alike, had been debating over the same issues "advitam eternam" without ever coming to an understanding of the truth. Among the people there were some who were hungering and thirsting for light. By day and by night, many were asking, What must I do to be saved? They were listening eagerly to popular discourses, hoping to learn how they might be justified before God. But too often they heard only a pleasing speech, an eloquent declamation. There were sad and disappointed hearts in every religious gathering. See Review and Herald, March 8, 1881.

Six years later, in the same Review and Herald of Feb.22, 1887, Mrs. White wrote, "There are many who want to know what they must do to be saved."

The next year, 1888, the Lord sent a most precious message. It was a clear and simple message as to what to do in order to be saved. The message was said to be just as simple as learning or accepting the alphabet.

Months later, on May 11, 1889, Mrs. White wrote,

"There seems to be a cloudy atmosphere that has gathered about the soul of man and that has shut in the mind. It is next to impossible to break through this atmosphere of doubt and unbelief. It is next to impossible to arouse his vital interests so that he may know what he must do to be saved." Manuscript 1, 1889.

On the same day, she wrote, "We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it."

Then on Sept.3, 1889, she wrote, "The present message--justification by faith--is a message from God; it bears the divine credentials, for its fruit is unto holiness." Review and Herald, Sept.3, 1889.

If that message is just as simple as accepting the letters of the alphabet, then why are we continually debating over it as though it was so complicated?

As little children we accepted all of the letters of the alphabet by faith and because we did, we were soon able to use those letters to make words with them and in no time we learned to write sentences with those words. If we had refused to accept these simple letters of the alphabet by faith, we would never have been able to learn the English language and we would have lost all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge of the English language.

If we, as little children, would receive the letters of the spiritual alphabet of God, especially as God sent these letters to us more than 120 years ago, we would be blessed with all the treasures of the wisdom and knowledge of God and we would be united as a people and the Lord could finish the work and cut it short in righteousness.

The problem is that whenever efforts are made to present this message in clear, distinct lines, the enemy casts his shadow across our pathway to intercept every ray of heavenly light.

Shortly after the Minneapolis meeting, Mrs. White wrote:

"When light begins to shine forth to make clear the plan of redemption to the people, the enemy works with all diligence, that the light may be shut away from the hearts of men." Review and Herald, Sept.3, 1889.

These words were penned at a time when God designed that the precious light of truth which He sent in 1888 should come to His professed people as the latter rain. Five years after this illustrious conference, Mrs. White wrote, "We have been in the time of the latter rain since the Minneapolis meeting." 1893 General Conference Bulletin, p.377.

Three years later she had this to say about the message and its reception:

"Satan succeeded in shutting away from our people, in a great measure, the special power of the Holy Spirit that God longed to impart to them. The light that is to lighten the whole earth with its glory was resisted, and by the action of our own brethren has been kept away from the world." Letter 96, 1896.

That same year, she wrote, "Many have listened to the truth spoken in demonstration of the Spirit, and they have not only refused to accept the message, but they have hated the light. These men are parties to the ruin of souls. They have interposed themselves between the heaven-sent light and the people. They have trampled upon the word of God and are doing despite to His Holy Spirit." T.M.91.

Again, that same year, she wrote, "The people to whom God had entrusted eternal interests, the depositories of truth pregnant with eternal results, the keepers of light that is to illuminate the whole earth, have lost their bearings." T.M.397.

How can we find our spiritual bearings back? Simply by accepting that most precious message that the Lord sent to us in 1888.

"The only remedy is belief in the truth, acceptance of the light." T.M.91.

The light that was sent in 1888 can be summerized in a few simple words:

"Faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin."

These most simple words were penned on November 4, 1890, two years after the Minneapolis conference.

On that same day, Mrs. White wrote, "The only way in which the sinner can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ."

Why? Simply because "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

Daily we are to come to God as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross. Then the Father receives us to Himself and clothes us with the robe of Christ's righteousness which imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, and all the pardon of sins. And His righteousness is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. It accomplishes everything. See F.W.24,27 and T.M.92,93,97.

This is how faith is accounted righteousness and the Father loves us as He loves His only-begotten Son! To all who receive, believe, and act upon this most simple message, the Father says, "This is by beloved son/daughter in whom I am well pleased." And the pardoned soul may go on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light, and from victory to victory, for "When we seek to gain Heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress." F.W.94,100,101.

sky

"Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." F.W.106.

Say, "Lord, I have no goodness or merit within whereby I may claim salvation, but I present before You the all-sufficient merits of the all-atoning blood of the spotless Lamb of God. This is my only plea."

This is the prayer of faith which ascends to God as sweet incense. It is heard in the courts above and great grace is imparted to those who say those words from the heart every day.

[Just*]

Jack: “Justification means all of Christ’s righteousness

that He provided for us so that nothing more is

required of us to qualify for heaven.’’—Beyond Belief,

103.

Jack: “Righteousness ‘in Christ’ [justification] is

the only means of our salvation, and unless we resist

and reject it, it fully qualifies us for heaven both

now and in the judgment.’’—Beyond Belief, 33.

Jack: “The righteousness God, obtained for all humanity

in Christ, is full of merit. It is this alone that qualifies

us for heaven, now and in the judgment. The righteousness

God produced in us, on the other hand,

has no saving value.’’—Beyond Belief, 170.

Jack: “The gospel of faith plus works, or justification

plus sanctification, is at the heart of Roman

Catholic theology. It is a subtle form of ‘legalism.’

”--Beyond Belief, 25.

Jack: “God actually and unconditionally saved all

humanity at the cross.’’—Beyond Belief, 8.

Jack: “All that is necessary for our salvation from

sin is already an accomplished fact in Christ.”—Beyond

Belief, 118.

Jack: “All three of these aspects of our salvation—

justification, sanctification and glorification—have

already been accomplished in the birth, life, death,

and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—Beyond

Belief, 30.

Jack: “Full and complete salvation has already

been obtained in Jesus Christ . . [it is incorrect to

believe that] salvation ultimately depends to some

degree on his or her behavior.”—Beyond Belief, 91.

Jack: “The entire human race is corporately one

‘in Jesus Christ,’ just as we are one ‘in Adam.’ What

Jesus did, we have done, because we are corporately

one in Him. His perfect life and death are considered

to be our life and death as well.”—Beyond Belief,

37.

Jack: “According to Paul, it is impossible for someone

who truly understands salvation by grace, and who

appreciates Christ’s cross, to go on condoning sin.

Righteousness is by faith, and if the faith is there, the

righteousness is sure to be there as well—and there is

no sin in righteousness.

“But that sin no longer has authority to condemn

or control a believer, because such a person is no

longer under the law’s control but under grace.

“A believer is no longer under the law’s authority,

sin can no longer bring upon the believer the law’s

condemnation of eternal death. The believer is delivered

from the power of sin.

Jack: “There is a world of difference between sinning

under the law and sinning under grace. In this

sense, the law and Christ differ radically.”—Beyond Belief,

163-165.

Jack: “We often describe the first aspect of salvation

[justification]—the objective gospel—as the imputed

righteousness of Christ. This is what qualifies

the believer for heaven, both now and in the final judgment.

We describe the second aspect of salvation—

the subjective gospel [sanctification]—as the imparted

righteousness of Christ in the life. It does not contribute

in the slightest way to our qualification for heaven;

it witnesses, or demonstrates, what is already true of

us in Christ. Imparted righteousness does not qualify

us for heaven.”—Beyond Belief, 32.

Jack: “Stumbling under grace, falling into sin,

does not deprive us of justification. Nether does it

bring condemnation.”—Beyond Belief, 166.

Jack: “If a person believes that salvation ultimately

depends to some degree on his or her behavior,

then the faith such a person is able to generate

will naturally be polluted with self-concern.”

Beyond Belief, 91.

Jack: “When Christ died on the cross, all humanity

was legally justified because all humanity died

with Him there.”—Beyond Belief, 43.

Jack: “In Him we lived a perfect life; in Him we

died the penalty for sin.”—Beyond Belief, 48-49.

Jack: “Biblically, the doctrine of substitution is

based on the concept of corporate oneness. God

can legally justify sinners because all humanity corporately

obeyed the law in one Man, Jesus Christ.

Only when we identify the humanity of Jesus with the

corporate fallen humanity He came to redeem can we

teach an ethical gospel that is unconditional good

news.”—Beyond Belief, 48.

Jack: “All that is necessary for our salvation from

sin is already an accomplished fact in Christ.”—Beyond

Belief, 118.

Jack: “God did not give us His only-begotten Son

so that we could copy Him, but so that we could receive

Him . . God is not looking at us to see how

good we are or how hard we are trying to keep His

law.”—Beyond Belief, 98.

AMEN!!!

[Just*]

Faith and Good Works--1895.--Our acceptance with God is sure only through His beloved Son, and good works are but the result of the working of His sin-pardoning love. They are no credit to us, and we have nothing accorded to us for our good works by which we may claim a part in the salvation of our souls. Salvation is God's free gift to the believer, given to him for Christ's sake alone. The troubled soul may find peace through faith in Christ, and his peace will be in proportion to his faith and trust. He cannot present his good works as a plea for the salvation of his soul.

But are good works of no real value? Is the sinner who commits sin every day with impunity, regarded of God with the same favor as the one who through faith in

Christ tries to work in his integrity? The Scripture answers, "We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works.

It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works in and of themselves have no merit. When we have done all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures.

The Lord has bidden us to draw nigh to Him and He will draw nigh to us; and drawing nigh to Him, we receive the grace by which to do those works which will be rewarded at His hands.--Review and Herald, Jan. 29, 1895. {3SM 200.3}

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Let us compare again:

Jack: “The gospel of faith plus works, or justification

plus sanctification, is at the heart of Roman

Catholic theology. It is a subtle form of ‘legalism.’

”--Beyond Belief, 25.

---------------------------

There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God's Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. . . . Faith and works go hand in hand. . . . Works will never save us; it is the merit of Christ that will avail in our behalf. Through faith in Him, Christ will make all our imperfect efforts acceptable to God. The faith we are required to have is not a do-nothing faith; saving faith is that which works by love and purifies the soul. He who will lift up holy hands to God without wrath and doubting will walk intelligently in the way of God's commandments. {TMK 229.2}

It is not faith PLUS works that we need. IT IS FAITH THAT WORKS!

AMEN brother .... AMEN. Finally someone else who will defend Jack. A follower?

[Woody]

Quote:

Only whilst you are in the car...

Please provide a quote for that. I have never heard EGW refer to a car. That's a new one on me. Actually sanctification has no reference to a car. In or Out.

Sanctification is our entire life's work. It includes our ups and downs. Sanctification is the growth of a life time. But we don't all have consistant growth. And no ... we don't fall out of God's car when we fail in some particular growth at one point in our life. Sanctification goes on for our life time.

Praise God for His mercy towards us sinners.

[skyblue888]

In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works.

It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works in and of themselves have no merit. When we have done all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures.

The Lord has bidden us to draw nigh to Him and He will draw nigh to us; and drawing nigh to Him, we receive the grace by which to do those works which will be rewarded at His hands.--Review and Herald, Jan. 29, 1895. {3SM 200.3}

This is actually my favorite statement. It is complete in itself. It is the whole counsel of God on the faith that works the works of God in the life. God rewards us for the works that His grace, His Spirit, enables us to do and yet these works in and of themselves do not play a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit. God accepts them only through the merits of Christ and we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. We deserve no thanks from God and yet in the day of reckoning the Lord will say to the faithful, "Good and faithful servants. Enter in through the everlasting gates and take possession of the kingdom which has been prepared for you even before the foundation of the world."

What an amazing God! Praise be to Him for ever and ever!

sky

[Robert]

What????  Where was I during all this Jack bashing????  I just noticed this thread....

I can't find any error between Jack's ministry and what the Apostle Paul states.  Paul, besides Christ, is my main man.  I back Jack because He backs Paul.  It's just that simple!

[Buzzards]

On 8/24/2009 at 4:39 PM, Twilight said:

He also teaches that the "Sunday Law" is not the test, but rather that "being in Christ" is the test to come on God people.

The Sunday Law is not """THE TEST""" Sunday is  ""A SIGN""" like any other sign

when driving down the Freeway and you see a large Yellow Shell sign; what type of Business is that

how about a red and white pole going round and round  = yep; the sign tells you that is a Barber Shop

all business have a sign to tell you what you will find inside that place of Business

Peter says

.......... there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,

even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:

So; what should you expect to find in that place of Business ?????

Yep  ===""""Damnable Heresies""" are the stock in trade, ie: merchandise for sale by these Merchant Men

So; What is the SIGN of Apostacy  ????????????????????

Posters; these things are so simple to see when you just let Scripture speak;

you don't need to be a PHD of Divinity;  nor be a Mathematical genius to figure out the number 666