Jack Sequeira - Teacher of new light or Teacher of Error?

[debbym]

On 8/17/2016 at 11:13 AM, joeb said:

You are replying to something I have never said.  I have said, repeatedly, that works are the evidence that we have been born again. 

You are correct in that if we are drawn by God's love.  We respond to His drawing, His grace.  He makes the first move, but we must respond by obeying Him.  What other than obedience to Him is it to repent?  He says we must repent, and if we do not, are we saved?   If we do not respond positively to His leading we are rejecting His grace....  Now, if I at one time respond to Christ's grace do I need to keep on responding to His grace for the rest of my life, and giving evidence of that response to Him by a continual process of becoming more like Him every day because I'm doing what He asks of me because I love Him?  Or, can I make a one time response and never grow in grace beyond that initial starting point?  Can I start out a theif and remain a theif?   What about Ezekiel 18?  If an evil man repents and abandons his previous life he will live.  And, just as importantly, if the righteous man abandons his righeousness and begins sinning he will die in his sins if he doesn't repent once more.  The Bible is full of this.  To ignore it is to reject scripture.

There's another way of stating your last sentence that is just as valid.  The only reason Jesus had to die is because God's law is immutable.  There is no difference between God's love and God's law.  They are synonyms.  God's law is love, and God's love is law. 

Joeb,

You say many wonderful things, but i clearly see a thrust in your words that does not place the weight of our salvation upon Jesus but on our efforts in response to Jesus great Labors for us.

The responses of others who have a different emphasis seems to bring from you the concern that they make nothing of our accountability to God.

When we focus on Jesus we focus on the source of every right impulse, of every inclination to Heaven,  He is good seed that brings a harvest of praise and love and submission to God.  Jesus did His Father's will and did bring salvation to every human being that has ever and will ever live.  Not all will receive it.  and the ways to turn from the Holy Spirit be lost are uncountable, but the way to come alive, whatever individual way it is found  is is only in Jesus.

When i stand right before God, i did absolutely nothing to bring this about.  In fact it is completely in spite of everything i am.  let me share some quotes... from dear EGW.

Let the subject be made distinct and plain that it is not possible to effect anything in
our standing before God or in the gift of God to us through creature merit. Should faith
and works purchase the gift of salvation for anyone, then the Creator is under obligation
to the creature. Here is an opportunity for falsehood to be accepted as truth. If any man
can merit salvation by anything he may do, then he is in the same position as the
Catholic to do penance for his sins. Salvation, then, is partly of debt, that may be earned
as wages. If man cannot, by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be
wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in
Jesus. It is wholly a free gift. Justification by faith is placed beyond controversy. And all
this controversy is ended, as soon as the matter is settled that the merits of fallen man
in his good works can never procure eternal life for him. {1888 812.2}
The light given me of God places this important subject above any question in my
mind. Justification is wholly of grace and not procured by any works that fallen man can
do. The matter has been presented before me in clear lines that if the rich man has
money and possessions, and he makes an offering of the same to the Lord, false ideas
come in to spoil the offering by the thought he has merited the favor of God, that the
Lord is under obligation to him to regard him with special favor because of this gift.
{1888 812.3

[joeb]

5 hours ago, debbym said:

Joeb,

You say many wonderful things, but i clearly see a thrust in your words that does not place the weight of our salvation upon Jesus but on our efforts in response to Jesus great Labors for us.

The responses of others who have a different emphasis seems to bring from you the concern that they make nothing of our accountability to God.

When we focus on Jesus we focus on the source of every right impulse, of every inclination to Heaven,  He is good seed that brings a harvest of praise and love and submission to God.  Jesus did His Father's will and did bring salvation to every human being that has ever and will ever live.  Not all will receive it.  and the ways to turn from the Holy Spirit be lost are uncountable, but the way to come alive, whatever individual way it is found  is is only in Jesus.

When i stand right before God, i did absolutely nothing to bring this about.  In fact it is completely in spite of everything i am.  let me share some quotes... from dear EGW.

Let the subject be made distinct and plain that it is not possible to effect anything in
our standing before God or in the gift of God to us through creature merit. Should faith
and works purchase the gift of salvation for anyone, then the Creator is under obligation
to the creature. Here is an opportunity for falsehood to be accepted as truth. If any man
can merit salvation by anything he may do, then he is in the same position as the
Catholic to do penance for his sins. Salvation, then, is partly of debt, that may be earned
as wages. If man cannot, by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be
wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in
Jesus. It is wholly a free gift. Justification by faith is placed beyond controversy. And all
this controversy is ended, as soon as the matter is settled that the merits of fallen man
in his good works can never procure eternal life for him. {1888 812.2}
The light given me of God places this important subject above any question in my
mind. Justification is wholly of grace and not procured by any works that fallen man can
do. The matter has been presented before me in clear lines that if the rich man has
money and possessions, and he makes an offering of the same to the Lord, false ideas
come in to spoil the offering by the thought he has merited the favor of God, that the
Lord is under obligation to him to regard him with special favor because of this gift.
{1888 812.3

4 hours ago, debbym said:

Joeb,

You say many wonderful things, but i clearly see a thrust in your words that does not place the weight of our salvation upon Jesus but on our efforts in response to Jesus great Labors for us.

The responses of others who have a different emphasis seems to bring from you the concern that they make nothing of our accountability to God.

When we focus on Jesus we focus on the source of every right impulse, of every inclination to Heaven,  He is good seed that brings a harvest of praise and love and submission to God.  Jesus did His Father's will and did bring salvation to every human being that has ever and will ever live.  Not all will receive it.  and the ways to turn from the Holy Spirit be lost are uncountable, but the way to come alive, whatever individual way it is found  is is only in Jesus.

When i stand right before God, i did absolutely nothing to bring this about.  In fact it is completely in spite of everything i am.  let me share some quotes... from dear EGW.

Let the subject be made distinct and plain that it is not possible to effect anything in
our standing before God or in the gift of God to us through creature merit. Should faith
and works purchase the gift of salvation for anyone, then the Creator is under obligation
to the creature. Here is an opportunity for falsehood to be accepted as truth. If any man
can merit salvation by anything he may do, then he is in the same position as the
Catholic to do penance for his sins. Salvation, then, is partly of debt, that may be earned
as wages. If man cannot, by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be
wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in
Jesus. It is wholly a free gift. Justification by faith is placed beyond controversy. And all
this controversy is ended, as soon as the matter is settled that the merits of fallen man
in his good works can never procure eternal life for him. {1888 812.2}
The light given me of God places this important subject above any question in my
mind. Justification is wholly of grace and not procured by any works that fallen man can
do. The matter has been presented before me in clear lines that if the rich man has
money and possessions, and he makes an offering of the same to the Lord, false ideas
come in to spoil the offering by the thought he has merited the favor of God, that the
Lord is under obligation to him to regard him with special favor because of this gift.
{1888 812.3

So, you agree with Robert that sanctification is legalism....  At least that is what I am assuming from your reply and your failure to reply to my direct questions in this area....  

Sanctification is as much by faith as justification is.  We cannot change our hearts.  The Bible tells us this repeatedly.  What sanctification is is the ongoing surrender of our individual sins to the leading of the Holy Spirit and trusting God to change our hearts.  

Your answer reveals your misunderstanding of what sanctification really is.  It's not us changing our selves by our efforts, but us submitting ourselves daily, moment-by-moment, to God's leading and surrendering all sin that God points out to us that is in our lives.  How this can be interpreted as salvation by works is beyond me.  It is fully trusting God to lead us into a continually deeper relationship with Him.  He progressively points out parts of us that do not reflect Him, and we respond to Him because we love and trust Him.  Each test He brings gives us brings us ever closer to Him if we just keep on surrendering every point of our rebellion against Him.  This is God working the sin out of us, not we ourselves because we don't even have a clue as to where to begin.  We're sinful through and through, and the only way to become more like Jesus is to continually follow His leading.   

How could we ever know what our sins are on our own?  We are born into sin and it is present in us.  It's the only reality we know.  The only way to learn about ourselves and the sin that dwells within us is to listen to the Holy Spirit's prompts and follow Him wherever He leads us.  This is not us trying to get rid of sin on our own, which is what legalism really is, but us exercising the faith God has given us and Him changing us through that faith in Him.

To be justified we must surrender our will to God and repent of our sins.  Sanctification is nothing more than the putting into continual motion this same process of surrender and repentance on a daily basis.  Remember Paul saying, I die daily?  Justification on a one time basis as taught by Sequira does not require this, but Paul said his salvation depended upon him dying daily to self.  That daily dying is the process of sanctification.  To be justified we must respond affirmatively to God's drawing.  Sanctification works exactly the same way.  

Do you not believe Jesus when He says that he who doesn't follow Him is not worthy of Him?  It doesn't appear that you do.....  You deem yourself worthy of Jesus whether you follow Him whithersoever He leads or not.  This is NOT a Biblical position. 

You start out saying, just like Robert, that works are the proof of our salvation, but then you go on to deny that very statement.  You think salvation exists whether or not there is any proof Christ dwells within you.  This is, logically, very inconsistent and there is one thing I have learned about the Bible.  It's consistency is neverending.  OT through NT it always teaches the same thing.  

I'm always amazed by those who claim to follow Paul yet abandon more than half of everything he writes about....  It just makes my head spin with the cognitive dissonance associated with this behavior.  Am I ever wrong about some theological issue?  I have no doubt I have some misunderstanding somewhere, but I do my very best in incorporate the entire Bible into my belief system, not just a few selected verses that a "special" meaning are applied to, and then anything in the Bible that disagrees with that context is ignored and sneered at.

I just truly don't get it.  As a Christian my entire being is dedicated to finding truth, and one cannot arrive at truth by ignoring one part of the Bible in favor of another part of it.  The entire Bible is truth, not just part of it.  I don't understand why this is not a universally accepted truth among Christians.  Do we not trust God to take Him at His word, all of His word?  If not, why not?

[Robert]

5 hours ago, joeb said:

I just truly don't get it. 

Well, start reading:

http://www.jacksequeira.org/2phases.htm

[Robert]

The danger has been presented to me again and again of entertaining, as a people, false ideas of justification by faith. I have been shown for years that Satan would work in a special manner to confuse the mind on this point. The law of God has been largely dwelt upon and has been presented to congregations, almost as destitute of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and His relation to the law as was the offering of Cain. I have been shown that many have been kept from the faith because of the mixed, confused ideas of salvation, because the ministers have worked in a wrong manner to reach hearts. The point that has been urged upon my mind for years is the imputed righteousness of Christ. I have wondered that this matter was not made the subject of discourses in our churches throughout the land, when the matter has been kept so constantly urged upon me, and I have made it the subject of nearly every discourse and talk that I have given to the people. FW p 18

[Robert]

23 minutes ago, Robert said:

The danger has been presented to me again and again of entertaining, as a people, false ideas of justification by faith. I have been shown for years that Satan would work in a special manner to confuse the mind on this point. The law of God has been largely dwelt upon and has been presented to congregations, almost as destitute of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and His relation to the law as was the offering of Cain. I have been shown that many have been kept from the faith because of the mixed, confused ideas of salvation, because the ministers have worked in a wrong manner to reach hearts. The point that has been urged upon my mind for years is the imputed righteousness of Christ. I have wondered that this matter was not made the subject of discourses in our churches throughout the land, when the matter has been kept so constantly urged upon me, and I have made it the subject of nearly every discourse and talk that I have given to the people. FW p 18

Her point?

First you have to understand the gospel and accept it.  It is the "imputed righteousness of Christ" that saves.  Christ, our Great High Priest, presents us perfect "in Himself".  This is the truth as it is in Christ.  We cannot add to this truth through Christian living.

Now once you are resting in Christ's finished redemptive work, of which the Sabbath is a sign, you'll begin to experience a change in the mind and heart.  This experience is what the Bible terms sanctification.  It is the genuine fruit of justification by faith. These works of faith (as opposed to "works of the law" ) will be used in the judgment, not to prove our righteousness, but to prove that our faith is really "in Christ".  Those whose faith is in their own good works will produce self-righteous fruits.  These fruits will condemn the self-righteous in the judgment. 

[Robert]

Matthew 7:22, 23.  Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity (i.e., works motivated by self-love).  All Christians must consider this text seriously.  Do our works originate from Christ and therefore motivated by agape, or are they the “fair shew in the flesh” [Galatians 6:12]?  Are our works the result of a genuine relationship with Christ (i.e, works of faith) or are we working in His name but we really don’t know Him?  [See also Luke 13:25-28.] [Jack Sequeira]

[debbym]

i can't see that sanctification by faith is legalism.  Exodus 31:13 "I am the Lord that doth Sanctify you."    What the Lord does for us and in us is not legalism.  

but when i depend on my works for sanctification then it is legalism.  i cannot view my own works or behaviors as assurance of my sanctification... i am too easily self deceived.  i am too easily self satisfied with my wonderful good deeds....

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 8/13/2016 at 3:56 AM, Robert said:

Again, when did infants repent?  They didn't...so "repentance" only applies to those who have reached the age where they can be accountable to God. Repentance, my legalistic friend, is not law keeping.  Repentance is admitting that you are a sinner in need of Christ's righteousness because you are a sinner before the law.

 

The word "repent" means to turn around.  You were walking in one direction.  You turn and walk in the opposite direction. 

[Robert]

18 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The word "repent" means to turn around.  You were walking in one direction.  You turn and walk in the opposite direction. 

Yes, that's one definition.  To repent is also to acknowledge that you are a sinner. 

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Yes, that's one definition.  To repent is also to acknowledge that you are a sinner. 

One can say, "I'm a sinner" and still have no intention of changing any behavior. 

[Robert]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

One can say, "I'm a sinner" and still have no intention of changing any behavior. 

Yes, they can boast that they are sinner I suppose....That's not what I had in mind.

[joeb]

On 8/19/2016 at 8:18 PM, debbym said:

i can't see that sanctification by faith is legalism.  Exodus 31:13 "I am the Lord that doth Sanctify you."    What the Lord does for us and in us is not legalism.  

but when i depend on my works for sanctification then it is legalism.  i cannot view my own works or behaviors as assurance of my sanctification... i am too easily self deceived.  i am too easily self satisfied with my wonderful good deeds....

 

 

That is a twisting of what I have said.  How is being drawn into a continually closer relationship with God depending on my good works?  Your assertion is a straw man for I have said again and again that God is the only one who can remove sin from our lives.  Obeying God is not attempting to earn salvation by what we do, it is the heart response to God's leading because we love Him.  It is the foundation of our relationship with Him. 

A relationship between God and a human is NOT a relationship between equals.  He commands and we are to obey.  If I am not obeying God how can I possibly say I love Him.  Can I ignore what my wife asks of me and her not think I do not love her?  Of course she's going to think that.  That's because our behavior shows what is in our heart.  The same exact thing goes for our relationship with God. 

A very famous SDA preacher used to use the following example in discussing righteousness by faith.  He asked the question, which is more important, getting married(justification) or staying married(sanctification)?   If you don't stay married you might as well have not have gotten marrried in the first place.  And if you don't get married staying  married is impossible.  One is just as important as the other.  The question itself is a fallacy, and he pointed it out because of the debate about justification and sanctification.  Righteousness by faith encompasses both.  The analogy is valid because marriage is the same analogy God uses.

I'm pretty disappointed in your responses for you have evaded answering my direct questions time and time again.  Why?  You also have not addressed a single text I have quoted on this thread, and I have posted a lot of them, showing that the Bible clearly teaches what I've been saying.

The ultimate in legalists, the Jews of Christ's day, pretended to obey but in reality did not.  They claimed to obey but Jesus told them they did the very things that their father the devil did.  Why?  Because they had no relationship with God.  They didn't know who He is.  All a person who has no relationship with God can do is pretend to obey for only God can change the heart.  When He changes the heart the life changes.  It is a fundamental fact of human nature.   If new principles, new ideas, do not live in our hearts then we have not been born again.  It's as simple as that.  And, if the new life from Christ is in the heart then our behavior shows the change. 

But, just because the above is true, does not mean that God has somehow removed our will to at any time choose to end our relationship with Him and once again live in rebellion against Him.  David is a prime example of this.  God called him a man after His own heart, yet David wandered so far from Him he was willing to commit murder to gain a beautiful woman as his wife.  Was David living daily with God when he had Uriah murdered?  Not in the least.  But, because he was a man after God's own heart he repented.  Psalm 51 shows all of this very clearly.  David recognized how he had wandered away from God and his desire was for God to renew the right princples, God's principles, within him once more.  This shows two things.  One, David had once lived by God's principles.  Two, he was no longer living by those principles.  He had abandoned them because he had abandoned his walk with God.  His only way back was through repentance and reformation. 

Do you really think David, if he had not repented, was worthy of eternal life?  The entire 18th chapter of Ezekiel says no.  For the righteous man who leaves his righteousness behind and once again lives by the principles of this world and never again repents will die in his sins.  This is a clear example of how the Bible demonstrates that sanctification is a must. 

[Robert]

18 hours ago, joeb said:

A very famous SDA preacher used to use the following example in discussing righteousness by faith.  He asked the question, which is more important, getting married(justification) or staying married(sanctification)?   If you don't stay married you might as well have not have gotten married in the first place. 

More subtle legalism....

Marriage is not to be equated with justification.  To be justified is to stand before God's law "in Christ" holy & blameless.  "We are complete in Him".

Sanctification is what we experience as we rest in the finished work of Christ.

Anything outside this truth is a ruse so that one might place one's confidence in one's performance.   

 

 

[debbym]

Not all minds are alike.... We do not live or die to one another but to the Lord. Joeb, I am simply not in a debate with you... I am not fighting point by point... Sorry if this disappoints. I am simply responding to this thread from my walk, my understanding, and sharing what is clear in my mind... We do not have to have the same view to be walking with God in the light he has given us.  In this world we all only see in part. Corinthians 13. I think we all find the balance of faith and our expressions of service and love and obedience... The obedience of faith is something different than the obedience of earning brownue points with God... That is all.

 

 

 

[CoAspen]

debbym said.....

Quote

I think we all find the balance of faith and our expressions of service and love and obedience... The obedience of faith is something different than the obedience of earning brownue points with God... That is all.

[joeb]

On 8/24/2016 at 8:20 AM, debbym said:

Not all minds are alike.... We do not live or die to one another but to the Lord. Joeb, I am simply not in a debate with you... I am not fighting point by point... Sorry if this disappoints. I am simply responding to this thread from my walk, my understanding, and sharing what is clear in my mind... We do not have to have the same view to be walking with God in the light he has given us.  In this world we all only see in part. Corinthians 13. I think we all find the balance of faith and our expressions of service and love and obedience... The obedience of faith is something different than the obedience of earning brownue points with God... That is all.

 

 

 

So, your experience says that it is OK to just ignore God's leading and do whatever the carnal heart desires?  Where does the Bible say that?  I've never seen such a thing.    How do you explain all of Ezekiel 18?  Do you just ignore it? 

I'm trying to figure out how you come to your conclusions, to understand your thinking. 

Also, please explain how a contiually growing and deepening relationship with God is trying to "earn brownie points with God"?  That response just boggles my mind.  I simply cannot understand it.

Is it not a law of relationships that they are either growing or they are dying?  A living relationship cannot be static for a static relationship is a dying relationship.  That truth right there is the cause of the ending of many marriages. 

[joeb]

How do those of you who disagree with me explain Hebrews 11?  A very concise paraphrase of it would be, By faith they acted.  Here's an entire chapter by Paul pointing out what faith does in the life.  If faith does that in the life how can we say we have faith if the works do not exist?  Faith produces good works.  Lack of faith produces no good works.  James says exactly the same thing.  He says I show my faith by what I do.  The reverse is also true.  I show my lack of faith by my lack of good works.

Robert basically says, by faith we do nothing.  I've never seen Paul, or any other Bible writer, say the same thing.

[debbym]

The obedience of faith is a deepening and growing relationship with God, obedience as in "all the Lord has said we will do" is not what God has asked of us. the Children of Israel were impeccable in their obedience, but it was not an obedience that relied on God's strength, it was an obedience that relied on their strength.... When Jesus divided the goats and the sheep the Goats said, "we did great things on your Name!! (this was great obedience) and Jesus turned to them and said depart from me i never knew you. Not all obedience is equal in the eyes of God. They thought they had earned points with God for their works and it availed them nothing. Your response to me seems argumentative and divisive and i cannot even understand where you are coming from. How can you imagine the obedience of faith to be ignoring God's leading and doing whatever your carnal heart desires. BY faith we recognize God's leading, and by faith we draw from heaven the strength to do His will and not our own.... by faith... not in our own strength and devising. the Jews were so religious read isaiah 58 and you will read how the religiosity of the Jews was a stench to God while they fasted and prayed and denied the needs of those around them... those whose hearts were crying out to God. The human heart is deceitful above all things desperately wicked who can know it. we cannot rest in our works for assurance of heaven but only in Jesus name and His righteousness.

[Robert]

On 9/1/2016 at 10:45 AM, joeb said:

Robert basically says, by faith we do nothing.  I've never seen Paul, or any other Bible writer, say the same thing.

Robert says that we can't add to Christ's redemption culminated at the cross..  Works of faith do not add to Christ's finished work.  If faith & works are part of the salvation equation then fallen humans can merit salvation. 

 

[Green Cochoa]

1 minute ago, Robert said:

Robert says that we can't add to Christ's redemption culminated at the cross..  Works of faith do not add to Christ's finished work.  If faith & works are part of the salvation equation then fallen humans can merit salvation. 

 

You won't get to heaven by your works--but you won't get there without them either.  There are certain works which man must do, and that God does not do for us.  These include: confession, repentance, resistance against temptation, and faith.  "But without faith, it is impossible to please God." (Hebrews 11:6)  And James helps us understand that we are justified by works. (See James 2:20-26.)

 

[Robert]

Here's what the RCC teaches on this subject:

Quote

 

Paul tells us: "For [God] will reward every man according to his works: to those who by perseverance in working good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. There will be . . . glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality" (Rom. 2:6–11; cf. Gal. 6:6–10). 

In the second century, the technical Latin term for "merit" was introduced as a synonym for the Greek word for "reward." Thus merit and reward are two sides of the same coin. 

 

 

[Robert]

9 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

There are certain works which man must do, and that God does not do for us.  These include: confession, repentance, resistance against temptation, and faith.  "But without faith, it is impossible to please God." (Hebrews 11:6)  And James helps us understand that we are justified by works. (See James 2:20-26.)

 

I'll let Jack answer the above:

Adventists traditionally belong to the Wesleyan Arminian school of theology.  Unlike the Calvinists, who believe that Christ saved only the elect on the cross, hence “limited atonement,” the Arminians believe that Christ only “potentially” or “provisionally” saved all of mankind on the cross.  For this provisional salvation to become a reality, one must repent and believe in Jesus Christ.  Only then will God place that person into Christ and the provision will become a reality.  Thus, traditionally, we Adventists have limited the in Christ motif only to believers.

The main argument that has often been used to prove that the in Christ motif applies only to believers is Romans 16:7.  In this chapter of greetings Paul makes this statement:  “Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison on with me....  They were in Christ before I was” (NIV, emphasis mine).  Clearly, what Paul is implying is that these two men accepted the truth as it is in Christ and were converted before Paul himself.  To build a whole theology on this one text while ignoring all the other in Christ texts Paul uses (some 64 times) is very poor exegesis, to say the least.

Further, this conclusion is a subtle form of legalism, salvation by works, since repentance and faith contribute towards ones salvation.  Whereas, according to Paul, it is the goodness of God (the reality phase or objective facts of the gospel) that leads one to faith and repentance (Romans 2:4).  Hence, faith is not allowing God or giving Him permission to put us into Christ but accepting with grateful hearts what God has already accomplished for mankind in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30-31; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Ephesians 1:3-4).

It is here where I disagree with the teachings of the Biblical Research Institute (BRI) of the GC, as well as some of the Independent Ministries.  I believe that the true everlasting gospel, which God raised the Advent Movement to proclaim to the world in its global mission, is neither the limited atonement of Calvinism nor the provisional salvation of Arminianism.  Rather, it is the incredible good news that on the cross the entire human race was actually or objectively redeemed, justified, and reconciled to God by the death of His Son (John 3:17; 17:4; 19:30; Romans 5:5-10,18; Ephesians 2:5, 6, 8, 9; 2 Corinthians 5:19).

[Green Cochoa]

Robert,

I'll address just one point at a time.  Let's start with the works.  You quote Jack, I'll quote Ellen.

Some may say it is exalting our own merits to expect favor from God through our good works. True, we cannot buy one victory with our good works; yet we cannot be victors without them. The purchase which Christ recommends to us is only complying with the conditions He has given us. True grace, which is of inestimable value, and which will endure the test of trial and adversity, is only obtained through faith and humble, prayerful obedience. Graces that endure the proofs of affliction and persecution, and evidence their soundness and sincerity, are the gold which is tried in the fire and found genuine. Christ offers to sell this precious treasure to man: "Buy of Me gold tried in the fire." The dead, heartless performance of duty does not make us Christians. We must get out of a lukewarm condition and experience a true conversion, or we shall fail of heaven.  {4T 89.1}

 

[Robert]

6 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

Robert,

I'll address just one point at a time.  Let's start with the works.  You quote Jack, I'll quote Ellen.

Some may say it is exalting our own merits to expect favor from God through our good works. True, we cannot buy one victory with our good works; yet we cannot be victors without them. The purchase which Christ recommends to us is only complying with the conditions He has given us. True grace, which is of inestimable value, and which will endure the test of trial and adversity, is only obtained through faith and humble, prayerful obedience. Graces that endure the proofs of affliction and persecution, and evidence their soundness and sincerity, are the gold which is tried in the fire and found genuine. Christ offers to sell this precious treasure to man: "Buy of Me gold tried in the fire." The dead, heartless performance of duty does not make us Christians. We must get out of a lukewarm condition and experience (i.e.,  Laodicean experience)* a true conversion, or we shall fail of heaven.  {4T 89.1}

 

"Self-righteousness is not the wedding-garment. A failure to follow the clear light of truth is our fearful danger. The message to the Laodicean church reveals our condition as a people."  [RH December 15, 1904, par. 9]

* my edition

[Robert]

7 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

 You quote Jack, I'll quote Ellen.

Jack mostly quotes Paul.  So I'll quote Paul and you quote Ellen.  Ellen, BTW, doesn't have a chapter in the Bible.  She is the lesser light.  Just saying...