The secret to victorious living...

[Guest]

Through the sacrifices and offerings brought to the earthly Sanctuary, the children of Israel were to lay hold of the merits of a Saviour to come. And in the wisdom of God the particulars of this work were given us that we might look back to them, and understand the work of Jesus in the heavenly Sanctuary.

At the crucifixion, as Jesus died on Calvary, he cried, It is finished, and the vail of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly Sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with them in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices.

The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be ministered by himself in the heavenly Sanctuary. As the priests in the earthly Sanctuary entered the Most Holy once a year to cleanse the Sanctuary, Jesus entered the Most Holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Dan, viii, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by his mediation, and to cleanse the Sanctuary. {1SG 161, 162}

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Through the sacrifices and offerings brought to the earthly Sanctuary, the children of Israel were to lay hold of the merits of a Saviour to come. And in the wisdom of God the particulars of this work were given us that we might look back to them, and understand the work of Jesus in the heavenly Sanctuary.

At the crucifixion, as Jesus died on Calvary, he cried, It is finished, and the vail of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly Sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with them in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices.

The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be ministered by himself in the heavenly Sanctuary. As the priests in the earthly Sanctuary entered the Most Holy once a year to cleanse the Sanctuary, Jesus entered the Most Holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Dan, viii, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by his mediation, and to cleanse the Sanctuary. {1SG 161, 162}

So the work of Jesus was *not* finished at the cross...

[Guest]

That's correct....

[Guest]

I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. {CET 100}

[Robert]

That's correct....

Hebrews 10:9 Then he [Jesus] said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will [God's will, which was to save the human race]." He sets aside the first [covenant] to establish the second. 10 And by that will [by Christ's doing & dying], we have been made holy [how?] through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest [see verses 2 & 3, which Paul defines as the gospel - the doing & dying of Christ] also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.

Why did God the Father rest from His work of salvation established "in Christ"? Because His work was perfect...it was complete. Nothing could be added to improve on God's work in Christ. Hence "it was finished". In fact that's the only reason given in the NT for NC Sabbath keeping.

If you don't believe that Christ's work was finished and complete then your Sabbath keeping is meaningless for it contradicts Paul in Hebrews chapter 4.

When you rest on the Sabbath you are agreeing that God's work of redemption "in Christ" is complete!!!! Your resting is nothing than an outward sign that you agree with Him....So which is it?

[Guest]

So Seroquell did away with the Heavenly Sanctuary?

That's a doctrine of Satan. You're just drinking from the broken cisterns of babylon...

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]."

Then, given your interpretation, you should be sinless!!!!

That is the Word quoted, you can view it as you please.

I am viewed as sinless as our Father looks at me through the cleansing blood of His Son, seeing only the righteous robes of His Son, Jesus, Who became sin (my sin), which is the privilege of all who accept the promises of the Word, believing Jesus to be true to what He has promised for the believing, confessing, repentant sinner.

" “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:28-30 NKJV

"...just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

“ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”"Romans 4:7,8 NKJV

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. " 2 Cor 5:21 NASB

"...for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him. "2 Cor 5:21 NASB

"And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him;(the robe of Jesus righteousness) and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. "

Luke 15:19-24 KJV words in parenthesis and underlining mine LHC Praise God, this son and his wife have come home.

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"John 11:26 KJV

Blessings!

[Robert]

So Seroquell did away with the Heavenly Sanctuary?

That's a doctrine of Satan. You're just drinking from the broken cisterns of babylon...

Paul said the following, not Jack:

And by that will [by Christ's doing & dying], we have been made [past tense] holy [how?] through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

His doing & dying made all men holy, once and for all....We receive this truth by faith....Faith doesn't make it a reality for it was already established....It merely makes it effective in one's life because God won't force His complete redemption on those who reject it....Nevertheless, the gift is full and complete....You can't add one thing to His perfect work...not even what He does in you....

[Guest]

Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

[Robert]

Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Not a problem....What is Christ doing in heaven, the most holy place? Representing you in Himself....In Him you stand perfect now and in the judgment....You can't add to that, but you can reject it....

[Guest]

So you don't deny that his work is ongoing in the heavenly Sanctuary?

[Robert]

Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross. 21 And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled [where?] in his fleshly body through death [the cross], so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him— 23 provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith

If you continue in the faith Jesus represents you "holy and blameless" in His fleshly body....In Him you are complete!

[Guest]

You didn't answer my question. We could be closer than I thought.

[Robert]

So you don't deny that his work is ongoing in the heavenly Sanctuary?

The work is complete....The question is have you accepted that perfect work? If so Jesus represents you "in Himself" perfect before God's law.

The function of God's work in you (imparted righteousness) is not to add to Christ's perfect work. What He does in you is used in two ways:

1] As a witness so that others may see Christ in you and desire Christ by faith

2] These fruits will be used in the judgment not to prove your righteousness, because technically "there is none righteous, not even one", but to prove your faith.....Genuine faith reveals a genuine change of heart/mind....Less self is seen and more Jesus.

[Robert]

2] These fruits will be used in the judgment not to prove your righteousness, because technically "there is none righteous, not even one", but to prove your faith.....Genuine faith reveals a genuine change of heart/mind....Less self is seen and more Jesus.

Jack:

Matthew 7:22, 23. Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity (i.e., works motivated by self-love). All Christians must consider this text seriously. Do our works originate from Christ and therefore motivated by agape, or are they the “fair shew in the flesh” [Galatians 6:12]? Are our works the result of a genuine relationship with Christ (i.e, works of faith) or are we working in His name but we really don’t know Him? [see also Luke 13:25-28.]

[Guest]

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Rev 22:11,12 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

[Robert]

Rev 22:11,12 He that is unjust [unjustified], let him be unjust still: and he that is filthy [not clothed with Christ's righteousness], let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous [in Christ], let him be righteous still: and he that is holy [in Christ], let him be holy still.

[LifeHiscost]

There are those who profess holiness, who declare that they are wholly the Lord's, who claim a right to the promises of God, while refusing to render obedience to His commandments. These transgressors of the law claim everything that is promised to the children of God; but this is presumption on their part, for John tells us that true love for God will be revealed in obedience to all His commandments. {AA 562}

Agreed, and as I examine myself to see whether I am in the faith or not, I make effort also to see others as not lying back making excuse in order to wallow in the pig stye, or to be satisfied that Jesus has no power to deliver from the same.

"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

2 Corinthians 13:5 NKJV

Blessings!

[Woody]

Quote:

I make effort also to see others as not lying back making excuse in order to wallow in the pig stye

I would rather keep my eyes on Jesus ... than my neighbor.

[Stewart (SDA)]

The Secret of Victorious Living.

There is (as I expect others have said already) ultimately one "secret" to victorious Christian living.

"...and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith." (1Jn 5:4)

Obviously we have many examples of faith in action.

"Goliath trusted in his armor, while David's trust was in the Lord. He did not desire to win fame or glory for himself, but that all the earth might "know that there is a God in Israel." Here is the secret of the disastrous overthrow of the one, and the signal victory of the other..."

We have many examples in Hebrews 11 where faith produced realities. By faith Noah built the ark. By faith Abraham left Ur, when he did not know where he was going. By faith Moses' parents hid him for 3 months.

To me, part of the secret of victory is in the understanding that faith produces realities -- definite actions -- in us. By faith, when we are smitten on the one cheek, we offer the other.

But if anyone trusts in the idea that faith means Christ will do everything for them "by proxy", then that person will suffer disappointment.

"The secret of Satan's power over God's professed people lies in the decietfulness of the human heart." Self-deception characterizes our day (Rev 3). There is a tendency in our day, to think that we have a great deal, when the reality is just the opposite (spiritual destitution). That is "the secret" of many of his victories.

But God counter-works the Devil, and heals our eyes that we might see ourselves as we really are, and do something about it.

_________

Stewart

[Guest]

Amen

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I make effort also to see others as not lying back making excuse in order to wallow in the pig stye

I would rather keep my eyes on Jesus ... than my neighbor.

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, (Redwood)for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Matthew 16:17 KJV parenthesis mine LHC

Blessings!

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: olger

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Why doesn't sin have dominion over you? Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law ), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives ? ....6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter....

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor 15:56

Sin kills, but sin is exposed by the law....Since we are not under the law "the wages of sin" (the 2nd death) can't take us under....

Quote:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Here's Jack Sequeira:

And now I come to a very important point, and I want you to be clear on this. Paul is not dealing in Romans 6 with performance; he is dealing with attitude towards sin. I want you to keep this in mind. Paul is not dealing with performance, he’s dealing with attitude. I’ll tell you why.

You may have said good-bye to sin in your heart, but does that mean that you don’t fall? Does it mean that you don’t have struggles? If I said, “You have no more struggles,” I would be lying to you. You know very well that you are still struggling and that you still fall. But a Christian’s performance must never be because he condones sin. In other words, our attitude towards sin must always be negative, even though in performance we fall many times.

... I want you to be clear that Paul is not dealing here with performance. He’s dealing here with attitude towards sin. Can a Christian say in his mind, “It’s okay to sin”? The answer is, “No!”

Why? Because you died to it. There is another reason, but that is for the study after next. But the reason we are looking at today is, “How can you who died to sin say that it is okay to sin?” So please remember, Paul is dealing here with attitudes, not performance.

I do not think Jack is understanding Paul here at all.

This is the gospel of "your best effort is good enough".

When the real gospel is "Gods effort is good enough and Gods effort will give you victory".

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Hey my friend, did you know you have to receive Romans 6:6 before we can claim Romans 6:11?

Mark :-)

Thank you for the tip, Mark.

It's interesting to note that YLT refers to "the sin", as has been alluded to somewhere recently, not without some dispute.

"The sin" seems to be addressing a specific, leading me to believe it's referring to cherished sin, that is sin being held onto with an unwillingness to relinquish, or perhaps even sin in general that one has been convinced, by someone other than our Father, sin, impossible to lose.

Because both are conditions I don't knowingly find myself in, I give them very little room to trouble my mind.

"...so also ye, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to the sin, and living to God in Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:11 YLT

OTOH, if a condition exists in which something must be prevailing before the other can become a reality, and I cannot clearly see what might be obvious to another, I wait upon the Holy Spirit to intensify the conviction to the point where the light shines bright enough in that direction to take decided steps toward it.

I don't hold to the premise of very many "musts" in the Word, except these two.

"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”" Acts 4:12 NKJV And___

"Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above)."John 3:7 AMP Brackets parenthesis theirs LHC

As to____"For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, [so] also we shall be of the rising again;

this knowing, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin. "Romans 6:5-6 YLT

Notice the wording tense as underlined above, which is consistent with many other translations, and the different tense in the preceding bold. It allows me opportunity to pray this prayer with peace,

"Have patience with me, God isn't finished with me yet."

"....looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith....and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."Hebrews 12:2 NKJV

Blessings!

Here is the point:

We were crucified in Christ.

Our "old man" has been nailed to the Cross.

Our new man had been given to us.

Now, we still have "sin" in our members, which calls for us.

But our "base" position is that we are abiding in Christ, because God has commanded it.

So "temptation" and "sin", is now trying to bring us out of that covenant relationship.

Does that make sense?

Mark

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Why doesn't sin have dominion over you? Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law ), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives ? ....6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter....

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" 1 Cor 15:56

Sin kills, but sin is exposed by the law....Since we are not under the law "the wages of sin" (the 2nd death) can't take us under....

Quote:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Here's Jack Sequeira:

And now I come to a very important point, and I want you to be clear on this. Paul is not dealing in Romans 6 with performance; he is dealing with attitude towards sin. I want you to keep this in mind. Paul is not dealing with performance, he’s dealing with attitude. I’ll tell you why.

You may have said good-bye to sin in your heart, but does that mean that you don’t fall? Does it mean that you don’t have struggles? If I said, “You have no more struggles,” I would be lying to you. You know very well that you are still struggling and that you still fall. But a Christian’s performance must never be because he condones sin. In other words, our attitude towards sin must always be negative, even though in performance we fall many times.

... I want you to be clear that Paul is not dealing here with performance. He’s dealing here with attitude towards sin. Can a Christian say in his mind, “It’s okay to sin”? The answer is, “No!”

Why? Because you died to it. There is another reason, but that is for the study after next. But the reason we are looking at today is, “How can you who died to sin say that it is okay to sin?” So please remember, Paul is dealing here with attitudes, not performance.

[/quote']

I do not think Jack is understanding Paul here at all.

This is the gospel of "your best effort is good enough".

When the real gospel is "Gods effort is good enough and Gods effort will give you victory".

Mark :-)

AMEN!!!