Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Yes...unless the Spirit is really driving something home, yes....How so? I still practice the love of self....It ain't an accident....Yes, less self-seeking, but nevertheless I am sinning....Where you have "self" you have sin....Unless I am totally living for others (as did Christ) I am sinning....You are too, but instead of accepting this reality you limit the law to rules that you can keep....The Pharisees were experts at this.... Then you are not born again by biblical standards Robert. Self has to die in Christ. You cannot serve two masters... Mark Are you fulfilling the following: (And I use EGW) You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439] Notice, you don't seek your own wealth...you don't go to college to satisfy your desires, but instead you live for others....This is how Christ lived....He lived a selfless life with no regard to Himself besides sustaining the body. "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [i.e., own way]; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] "None will think of self"? Everyone in this world, even the Christian, is thinking of himself....Why do you get an education - to serve others or to make big bucks? At best to help others and make big buck so that you might get what your heart desires....This is self-seeking....It won't the that way in heaven....That's why Lucifer couldn't develop his love of self there.... There was not one trace of selfishness in the life of Christ. All who are laborers together with God will have the same spirit as their Master had. They will be continually growing away from selfishness, and renouncing self-indulgence, even in things that had once appeared innocent to them. . . [LHU 325] One trace of selfishness...even once...is enough to disqualify you from entering heaven....Now you can grow "away from selfishness"...you can become less selfish...there can be less "proud self-seeking", but while this is good and shows a mature relationship with Christ it ain't good enough to get you in the gate.... Quote
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 God has given me the victory over sin. So there are times in your walk that you are sinless in performance (note, I didn't say in nature)....? There are times when your performance measures with the life of God? You are in performance perfect as God is perfect? In other words you are meeting the demands of both the letter and the spirit of God's law? Quote
Woody Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 AMEN. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 I am standing in Christ right now, so I am "in Christ". Dude Mark....You're dealing with metaphors....Metaphors are based on a truth. You are not "in Christ" by your performance, or even your faith. You are "in Christ" by God's doing some 2000 years ago: 1 Corinthians 1:30 It is because of him [God - not your performance] that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our justification, holiness and glorification." You already have all 3 in the body of Christ. You have failed to grasp the gospel....You have been wandering in the wilderness of "another gospel" taught to you by well meaning historic SDA....You need to free yourself of this bondage through Christ.... Quote
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 You already have all 3 in the body of Christ. You say you are standing in Christ and you point to your performance to prove this....Well, using the same misguided logic, then you must be in heaven also: Eph 2: 4 God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.... Col 1:12...the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: Quote
Members phkrause Posted December 3, 2009 Members Posted December 3, 2009 Gerry very good response's there I agree with them all, excellent, couldn't have said them any better. I appreciate your views and that you don't cram them down anyone's throat, by saying this is the way it is or else. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
LifeHiscost Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 How about, the children of God cannot but help overcome, as they are now standing in Christ? Could this verify what you have said? "And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."Romans 6:18 NKJV "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight."Luke 10:21 KJV Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 You say you are standing in Christ and you point to your performance to prove this.... "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" Matthew 7:16 KJV "....the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law"Gal 5:21-23 NKJV Regards! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Have you ever considered it this way LHC: When we give God permission, He performs His commands in us... Mark :-) Yes I have, Mark. It was brought to my attention by Paul's letters to the Philippians as he was moved by the Holy Spirit. "...for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure. "Phil 2:13 YLT It is the single most outstanding reason why, in our effort to give God the glory that is rightfully His, we need to lift Jesus' sustaining power as why we find victory in Him, and those victories are not makebelieve, in-the-sky by-and by victories. And I have no doubt you're well aware of that. Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Hey Life..... Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert You say you are standing in Christ and you point to your performance to prove this.... "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" Matthew 7:16 KJV "....the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law"Gal 5:21-23 NKJV Regards! This is "Christ in you", not "in Christ"....Again, failure to see this leads many into a life of legalism Quote
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Proof: John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me [by faith], and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. We are already clean "in Christ". As we remain "in Him" through faith we become less and less selfish.... "In Christ" is what He did 2000 years ago in our corporate humanity. "Christ in you" is the result of accepting the truth as it is "in Christ". Quote
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Are you fulfilling the following: (And I use EGW) You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439] Notice, you don't seek your own wealth...you don't go to college to satisfy your desires, but instead you live for others....This is how Christ lived....He lived a selfless life with no regard to Himself besides sustaining the body. "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure [i.e., own way]; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] "None will think of self"? Everyone in this world, even the Christian, is thinking of himself....Why do you get an education - to serve others or to make big bucks? At best to help others and make big buck so that you might get what your heart desires....This is self-seeking....It won't the that way in heaven....That's why Lucifer couldn't develop his love of self there.... There was not one trace of selfishness in the life of Christ. All who are laborers together with God will have the same spirit as their Master had. They will be continually growing away from selfishness, and renouncing self-indulgence, even in things that had once appeared innocent to them. . . [LHU 325] One trace of selfishness...even once...is enough to disqualify you from entering heaven....Now you can grow "away from selfishness"...you can become less selfish...there can be less "proud self-seeking", but while this is good and shows a mature relationship with Christ it ain't good enough to get you in the gate.... I have all this in Christ Robert. :-) You come across like the man who sold oranges asking the man who sold apples, why do you sell those? You think that only your oranges are the things that people will want to eat. But you do not seem to realise that the oranges and apples all come from the same tree. It is Christ who is responsible for growing the seller who sells the fruit. When you focus is there, instead of on your "oranges", you will be in the place to find the true born again experience. Right now, it is clear you do not have it, as your oranges taste sour my friend. Your oranges are just like the spirit you display to others who do not agree with you. They are bitter to taste... Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight God has given me the victory over sin. So there are times in your walk that you are sinless in performance (note, I didn't say in nature)....? There are times when your performance measures with the life of God? You are in performance perfect as God is perfect? In other words you are meeting the demands of both the letter and the spirit of God's law? No Robert. When I am in Christ, I cannot sin. It is only when I am drawn away from Christ that the option to sin is there... In Christ, I have all these things, because of Him, not because of "my perfomance". But this is not a plaster I stick over a wound to hide it. This is reality. Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight I am standing in Christ right now, so I am "in Christ". Dude Mark....You're dealing with metaphors....Metaphors are based on a truth. You are not "in Christ" by your performance, or even your faith. You are "in Christ" by God's doing some 2000 years ago: 1 Corinthians 1:30 It is because of him [God - not your performance] that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our justification, holiness and glorification." You already have all 3 in the body of Christ. You have failed to grasp the gospel....You have been wandering in the wilderness of "another gospel" taught to you by well meaning historic SDA....You need to free yourself of this bondage through Christ.... My friend, you are correct and incorrect. I am in Christ. When I am in Christ I have the victory over sin. But you say you can be in Christ and sin. Then you are not "in" Christ. You are in something else. You are in the flesh. Because you are sinning. Being in Christ, means my flesh is put to death. It means Christ's victory is mine. It means I do not sin. If I say I am in Christ and it is okay to sin, I am lying. But if I say I am in Christ and not sinning, then it is truth. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight How about, the children of God cannot but help overcome, as they are now standing in Christ? Could this verify what you have said? "And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."Romans 6:18 NKJV "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight."Luke 10:21 KJV Blessings! Indeed it does my friend. :-) Consider also this: The new walk – Abide in Me and I in you… Abide in Me and I in you… Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. What does “abide” mean? It means to “remain”. Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. “Remain in me and I in you.” Abiding in Jesus, is remaining in all the promises of God. Remaining in all the commands of God. Remaining in the accomplished Fact that we have been crucified in Christ. 1Jo 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. That we have been given new life in Christ. That we have been given the power of obedience in Christ. And Him in us, is our remaining in the promise of Jesus to dwell in the heart. Remaining in the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Robert Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert So there are times in your walk that you are sinless in performance (note' date=' I didn't say in nature)....? There are times when your performance measures with the life of God? You are in performance perfect as God is perfect? In other words you are meeting the demands of both the letter and the spirit of God's law? [/quote'] No Robert. Then you contradict yourself....Here's your statement: "But you say you can be in Christ and sin. Then you are not 'in' Christ." So Mark, you are making obedience a condition....That's heresy.... Quote
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight How about, the children of God cannot but help overcome, as they are now standing in Christ? Could this verify what you have said? "And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."Romans 6:18 NKJV "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight."Luke 10:21 KJV Blessings! Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Have you ever considered it this way LHC: When we give God permission, He performs His commands in us... Mark :-) Yes I have, Mark. It was brought to my attention by Paul's letters to the Philippians as he was moved by the Holy Spirit. "...for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure. "Phil 2:13 YLT It is the single most outstanding reason why, in our effort to give God the glory that is rightfully His, we need to lift Jesus' sustaining power as why we find victory in Him, and those victories are not makebelieve, in-the-sky by-and by victories. And I have no doubt you're well aware of that. Blessings! I live in victory in Christ my friend, (I know how much this will scare some people). :-) Praise God. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns' date=' or figs of thistles?" Matthew 7:16 KJV "....the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law"Gal 5:21-23 NKJV Regards! [/quote'] This is "Christ in you", not "in Christ"....Again, failure to see this leads many into a life of legalism It is possible that it is you that is failing to see here Robert... Jesus said abide in me and I in you. There are two "arms" to the experience. Not one... Do you understand this? God bless, Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Proof: John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me [by faith], and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. We are already clean "in Christ". As we remain "in Him" through faith we become less and less selfish.... "In Christ" is what He did 2000 years ago in our corporate humanity. "Christ in you" is the result of accepting the truth as it is "in Christ". Yes... But we also need to add this to the above: 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. If you are "in Christ" you are born of God and you will not sin. If you are "sinning", then you are not "in Christ". Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight Then you contradict yourself....Here's your statement: "But you say you can be in Christ and sin. Then you are not 'in' Christ." So Mark, you are making obedience a condition....That's heresy.... No my friend. You do not understand the gospel. If you are truly in Christ, you will not sin. Obedience is a fruit of that experience. God bless, Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Woody Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Mark. You're selling yo-yo's. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Twilight Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 Mark. You're selling yo-yo's. I am not selling anything my friend. I am pointing to the truth of the gospel. Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
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