I die daily... Have we misinterpreted this?

[SivartM]

Quote:

Genuine sanctification ... is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity to the will of God.

{ML 248.5}

Guess I don't have it. For I do not die to self daily. I do not daily conform to the will of God.

I slip. I fall. I try. I fail. I invite ... for His delight. But, try as I might. I am a fright.

Original poetry by Redwood!

So, do people who die to self daily involve themselves in pointless arguments?

[Woody]

Quote:

So, do people who die to self daily involve themselves in pointless arguments?

:)

It is rather laughable. Some actually take it serious.

But I do agree with you. It is rather pointless. Each person reads and understands through a certain lense. It is either from a legalistic lense ... or a Grace filled lense. And no matter what ... you can't get someone to change the lense that they are using. So, yes it IS pointless.

And you raise a valid question.

[Guest]

So, do people who die to self daily involve themselves in pointless arguments?

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

[SivartM]

Thank you for posting those verses. Doesn't it seem like trying to make everyone believe everything exactly as you do is sort of... self-centered?

Edit: Not "you" as in anyone in particular.

[Twilight]

Mark, the Bible does not teach we die to self just one time at acceptance of Christ. When we are baptized, that represents our old man of sin as we go under, and then as we come up represents the new life in Christ. It is symbolic of our stated desire to follow Christ.

If there is not an ongoing process of dying to self and putting on Christ, then we will be overcome by sin.

I also don't mean it as as black and white as I say.If we abide in Christ 24/7 it also stands to reason that we crowd out self at the same time.But even when we do that, temptations will still come. By meeting temptation with "it is written," and making the choice not to sin, (hopefully) then we die to self then as well.

The parable of the True Vine illustrates it well:

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Joh 15:3 Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Wholly Sanctified: Body, Soul, and Spirit

The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 {ML 248.1}

The sanctification set forth in the Sacred Scriptures has to do with the entire being--spirit, soul, and body. Here is the true idea of entire consecration. Paul prays that the church at Thessalonica may enjoy this great blessing. "The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23.... {ML 248.2}

True sanctification is an entire conformity to the will of God. Rebellious thoughts and feelings are overcome, and the voice of Jesus awakens a new life, which pervades the entire being. Those who are truly sanctified will not set up their own opinion as a standard of right and wrong. They are not bigoted or self-righteous; but they are jealous of self, ever fearing, lest a promise being left them, they should come short of complying with the conditions upon which the promises are based.... {ML 248.3}

Bible sanctification does not consist in strong emotion. Here is where many are led into error. They make feelings their criterion. When they feel elated or happy, they claim that they are sanctified. Happy feelings or the absence of joy is no evidence that a person is or is not sanctified. There is no such thing as instantaneous sanctification. True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as life shall last. Those who are battling with daily temptations, over-coming their own sinful tendencies, and seeking for holiness of heart and life make no boastful claims of holiness. They are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. Sin appears to them exceedingly sinful.

* * * * * {ML 248.4}

Genuine sanctification ... is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity to the will of God.

{ML 248.5}

I prefer to go with the Bible and the Lord's prophet instead of what man may say.

You must not confuse what I am saying is Justification with sanctification Steven. :-)

[Woody]

Quote:

I prefer to go with the Bible and the Lord's prophet instead of what man may say.

Yes. In this we are agreement. I prefer not to go by your private interpretations. This is a good point that we should all learn from. Some study from the lense of legalism. Some study from the lense of Grace. It is difficult to get one to change lenses unless they receive the Holy Spirit. But if they don't ... their lense will always color what they read.

[Steve Billiter]

Mark, I'm trying not to do that! But even though justification and sanctification was provided at the cross, these are ongoing processes. One can walk away from Christ, he has that right.

We must constantly feed our new nature in Christ or it will die out, at the same time we put away selfish lusts. That is what EGW means as well.

True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as life shall last. Those who are

battling with daily temptations, over-coming their own sinful tendencies, and seeking

for holiness of heart and life make no boastful claims of holiness. They are hungering

and thirsting for righteousness. Sin appears to them exceedingly sinful. {ML 248.4}

Genuine sanctification ... is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity

to the will of God. {ML 248.5}

I choose to accept what the Bible and EGW say.

[teresaq]

"No outward observances can take the place of simple faith and entire rununciation of self. But no man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Then the language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart; for I cannot give it. It is Thy property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for Thee. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchristlike self,. Mold me, fashion me, and raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere where the rich currents of Thy love can flow through my soul." C.O.L.159.

this is one of my favorites!!

too bad it takes so long for any evidence to be seen.

but then i notice i am not alone... :-)

[teresaq]

But I have to disagree on the point about "dying daily" being "crucifixion".

Why?

Because I was crucified in Christ once, 2000 years ago.

So then why would I "die daily", if my old man is already dead?

Does he come back to life in the night whilst I am sleeping?

And how does this then balance out with this emphatic statement?

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Mark :-)

do you disagree with paul?

1Co 15:31 ... I die daily.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But I have to disagree on the point about "dying daily" being "crucifixion".

Why?

Because I was crucified in Christ once, 2000 years ago.

So then why would I "die daily", if my old man is already dead?

Does he come back to life in the night whilst I am sleeping?

And how does this then balance out with this emphatic statement?

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Mark :-)

do you disagree with paul?

1Co 15:31 ... I die daily.

Mark, you were not alive 2000 years ago. This sounds like something Jack Sequeria would say.A twist on pantheism.:)

[Robert]

Mark, you were not alive 2000 years ago. This sounds like something Jack Sequeria would say. A twist on pantheism.

You have no idea what you're talking about....This is nonsense....

We all share one life...the fallen life of Adam. You are the multiplication of Adam's life through procreation. His humanity is your humanity....

Christ, as God, took Adam's life into Himself....That life is your life....We all share one life - Adam's life. Hence when that life died, we died to the law in the body of Christ (Rom 7:4)....If this isn't true then you the individual must personally die the 2nd death.

[Guest]

What NONSENSE!

[Robert]

What NONSENSE!

Where did your humanity originate? Answer: Adam....Even Eve was taken from Adam's side....God made the human race in Adam. When Adam fell he polluted the gene pool....Your life substance took a u-turn from selflessness to selfishness. You were born bent to self because you come from Adam. His life is your life....Hence we all share his fallen life and are born under condemnation.

-BC- FW

-TI- Faith and Works

-CN- 11

-CT- Obedience and Sanctification

-PR- 03

-PG- 88

We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

What NONSENSE!

Where did your humanity originate? Answer: Adam....Even Eve was taken from Adam's side....God made the human race in Adam. When Adam fell he polluted the gene pool....Your life substance took a u-turn from selflessness to selfishness. You were born bent to self because you come from Adam. His life is your life....Hence we all share his fallen life and are born under condemnation.

-BC- FW

-TI- Faith and Works

-CN- 11

-CT- Obedience and Sanctification

-PR- 03

-PG- 88

We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression.

I inherited a sinful nature from Adam, but I was not there when he fell. The free gift of Christs sacrifice came upon all men to accept or reject, but I was not there in Christ when He died.

Sequeria even carries this further to say "we obeyed in Christ." I'm not sure what version of the Bible Sequeria uses, Martian maybe?

[karl]

Mark, I'm trying not to do that! But even though justification and sanctification was provided at the cross, these are ongoing processes. One can walk away from Christ, he has that right.

We must constantly feed our new nature in Christ or it will die out, at the same time we put away selfish lusts. That is what EGW means as well.

True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as life shall last. Those who are

battling with daily temptations, over-coming their own sinful tendencies, and seeking

for holiness of heart and life make no boastful claims of holiness. They are hungering

and thirsting for righteousness. Sin appears to them exceedingly sinful. {ML 248.4}

Genuine sanctification ... is nothing less than a daily dying to self and daily conformity

to the will of God. {ML 248.5}

I choose to accept what the Bible and EGW say.

We were not given justification and sanctification at the cross, but these were provided - made available - by the life (blood) of our Lord and Savior.

Genuine sanctification is nothing less than ongoing justification.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Where did your humanity originate? Answer: Adam....Even Eve was taken from Adam's side....God made the human race in Adam. When Adam fell he polluted the gene pool....Your life substance took a u-turn from selflessness to selfishness. You were born bent to self because you come from Adam. His life is your life....Hence we all share his fallen life and are born under condemnation.

-BC- FW

-TI- Faith and Works

-CN- 11

-CT- Obedience and Sanctification

-PR- 03

-PG- 88

We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ' date=' by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression.

[/quote']

I inherited a sinful nature from Adam, but I was not there when he fell.

Sure you were...not as an individual, but as his life substance....If Adam had died would you be here? NO! Why? You would have died with him....That wasn't so hard, was it?

[Robert]

We were not given justification and sanctification at the cross, but these were provided

No, "in Christ" you already (even before you accept it) stood justified, sanctified and glorified in Him. See 1 Cor 1:30

[Robert]

Sequeria even carries this further to say "we obeyed in Christ." I'm not sure what version of the Bible Sequeria uses, Martian maybe?

Yes, we obeyed "in Christ" because your life from Adam was "in Him"....So when He defeated your love of self He did it in YOUR humanity....Therefore you obeyed in Him....

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

Sequeria even carries this further to say "we obeyed in Christ." I'm not sure what version of the Bible Sequeria uses, Martian maybe?

Yes, we obeyed "in Christ" because your life from Adam was "in Him"....So when He defeated your love of self He did it in YOUR humanity....Therefore you obeyed in Him....

No way, we can have the robe of Christ righteousness, but to say "we obeyed in Him" is taking it too far.The next logical step from that is He obeys in all that WE should obey, like keeping the commandments for us so we don't need to? No way.

Did someone say 1Cor.1:30?

30 And of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This simply says as we connect with Christ, through sanctification, we progress to these attainments.

This does not mean we "obeyed in Christ." Not even close.

There is no text that says that.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: karl

We were not given justification and sanctification at the cross, but these were provided

No, "in Christ" you already (even before you accept it) stood justified, sanctified and glorified in Him. See 1 Cor 1:30

No, the Bible does not teach the whole world is saved. One must meet all the conditions for salvation first. Acceptance, confession of sin, and repentance, without which no one will see the Lord.

Did someone say 1Cor.1:30?

30 And of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This simply says as we connect with Christ, through sanctification, we progress to these attainments.

This does not mean we "obeyed in Christ." Not even close.

There is no text that says that. If you are reading Sequeria or 1888 MSC, I would find the nearest trash can to make a deposit.

Can you take a chance regarding your eternal life to be wrong?

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you shall be no priest to me: because you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.

[Woody]

Quote:

If you are reading Sequeria or 1888 MSC, I would find the nearest trash can to make a deposit.

If you are reading Billiter I would find the nearest trash can to make a deposit.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But I have to disagree on the point about "dying daily" being "crucifixion".

Why?

Because I was crucified in Christ once, 2000 years ago.

So then why would I "die daily", if my old man is already dead?

Does he come back to life in the night whilst I am sleeping?

And how does this then balance out with this emphatic statement?

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Mark :-)

do you disagree with paul?

1Co 15:31 ... I die daily.

Allow me to add: Luke 9:23 "And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me."

[pnattmbtc]

The fruit reveals the tree. Mean-spirited remarks depict an empty theology.

Some of the things one reads on this forum are shocking. Aren't we, in some manner of speaking, brothers?

[pnattmbtc]

Regarding the world being saved, in a number of places Christ is referred to as "the Savior of the world" or "the Savior of all men." Ellen White writes:

Quote:

Christ was tempted by Satan in a hundredfold severer manner than was Adam, and under circumstances in every way more trying. The deceiver presented himself as an angel of light, but Christ withstood his temptations. He redeemed Adam's disgraceful fall, and saved the world.(YI 6/2/98)

To individual receive eternal life, one must respond to the Holy Spirit (or, equivalent, no resist/reject Him), but corporately, Christ saved the entire world. As 1SM 343 puts it, he restored "the whole race of men to favor with God."

Quote:

He arose from the tomb enshrouded with a cloud of angels in wondrous power and glory--the Deity and humanity combined. He took in His grasp the world over which Satan claimed to preside as his lawful territory, and by His wonderful work in giving His life, He restored the whole race of men to favor with God.

[Gerr]

The fruit reveals the tree. Mean-spirited remarks depict an empty theology.

Some of the things one reads on this forum are shocking. Aren't we, in some manner of speaking, brothers?

Would you kindly give the reference where I made a mean-spirited remark?

Thanks.