Gods part and our co-operation...

[karl]

Quote:

Comprising with sin till Jesus comes? That's a dangerous notion! I can't do that!

That should read: "compromising with sin....."

Look up, not down.

Press on toward the mark. Forget those things which are behind.

By beholding we become changed. If we are beholding compromise with sin, ....guess what?

[Twilight]

PKRAUSE

yes that is why I could relate to what REDWOOD said

dgrimm60

It is when it is proclaimed as the ONLY POSSIBLE experience of the Christian, that it becomes a problem.

The bible clearly states that this is "abnormal" behaviour of the Christian.

Not the normal behaviour.

Problem is, we are learning to accept our failure, instead of seeking God to find out why we have failed...

Mark :-)

[Woody]

Romans 3:23 " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

1 John 1:7-8 " But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. "

It's always best to be honest with God. If we go about thinking we are sinless ... God is not able to work with us.

[Woody]

Quote:

But to be wavering until Jesus comes? Comprising with sin till Jesus comes? That's a dangerous notion! I can't do that!

But you are. The difference between you and me is that I am honest to admit it .

[Gerr]

Quote:

But to be wavering until Jesus comes? Comprising with sin till Jesus comes? That's a dangerous notion! I can't do that!

But you are. The difference between you and me is that I am honest to admit it .

Hmmmmmmmmm. You're honest and I'm a liar?

Compromising with sin till Jesus comes? To anyone who has that experience when Jesus comes, the Scripture says,

"will not receive anything from the Lord." Maybe you do, but for me that's a false hope. For me the Word is

pretty clear.

[teresaq]

Quote:

But to be wavering until Jesus comes? Comprising with sin till Jesus comes? That's a dangerous notion! I can't do that!

But you are. The difference between you and me is that I am honest to admit it .

i agree with your general thoughts, redwood, in that we are struggling daily. if we would be honest, then yes, there are moments when the HS wins, and times when the natural man wins.

but i personally believe that by the time Jesus comes we will be settled one way or the other. we will know what sin is and we will feel only abhorrence for such thoughts and acts in ourselves, while feeling only compassion for those who "willfully" sin.

course now the problem is, what exactly are we defining sin as? is our view limited and vague? are we being educated daily as to what sin is? or do we prefer to stay limited and vague?

are we resisting knowing what sin is?

[teresaq]

Compromising with sin till Jesus comes? To anyone who has that experience when Jesus comes, the Scripture says,

"will not receive anything from the Lord." Maybe you do, but for me that's a false hope. For me the Word is

pretty clear.

[Gerr]

Romans 3:23 " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

1 John 1:7-8 " But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. "

It's always best to be honest with God. If we go about thinking we are sinless ... God is not able to work with us.

"All have sinned [past tense, so no one can claim to be without sin]....and come short [present tense] of the glory of God."

Just because we have sinned doesn't mean we are obligated to continue living in sin. "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 ESV.

Falling short is NOT = continuing a life of sin. Even sinless being cannot or will ever match up with the glory of God, even given eternity. If you think you can, then I suspect your god is too small and not so glorious after all.

[skyblue888]

What do you make of this statement?

"Do you imagine that you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once! Hate the things that Christ hates, love the things that Christ loves." 1 S.M.327.

Of course this would be possible only if we are one with Christ for out of Christ we are totally helpless in the battle against self and sin.

sky

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

But to be wavering until Jesus comes? Comprising with sin till Jesus comes? That's a dangerous notion! I can't do that!

But you are. The difference between you and me is that I am honest to admit it .

i agree with your general thoughts, redwood, in that we are struggling daily. if we would be honest, then yes, there are moments when the HS wins, and times when the natural man wins.

but i personally believe that by the time Jesus comes we will be settled one way or the other. we will know what sin is and we will feel only abhorrence for such thoughts and acts in ourselves, while feeling only compassion for those who "willfully" sin.

course now the problem is, what exactly are we defining sin as? is our view limited and vague? are we being educated daily as to what sin is? or do we prefer to stay limited and vague?

are we resisting knowing what sin is?

Let me categorically state as clearly as I can. As long as we are in this mortal flesh, sinless perfection is a pipe dream. But there is a kind of sin that I believe every believer must be free of to be in the kingdom. You can find the definition of this kind of sin in Nu 15:22-31, & 1 Jn 3:6-10 (see especially in the Amplified version on this one.}

[skyblue888]

Sinless perfection of the flesh is a pipe dream but not sinless character. Did not Jesus live a sinless life in sinful flesh as we all have?

sky

[Gerr]

What do you make of this statement?

"Do you imagine that you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once! Hate the things that Christ hates, love the things that Christ loves." 1 S.M.327.

Of course this would be possible only if we are one with Christ for out of Christ we are totally helpless in the battle against self and sin.

sky

"The earth produces by itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear." Mk 4:28 ESV.

I have never seen grain come out of a seed overnight.

[Gerr]

Sinless perfection of the flesh is a pipe dream but not sinless character. Did not Jesus live a sinless life in sinful flesh as we all have?

sky

By sinless character, you mean not even unintentional/inadvertent mistakes?

[Twilight]

What do you make of this statement?

"Do you imagine that you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once! Hate the things that Christ hates, love the things that Christ loves." 1 S.M.327.

Of course this would be possible only if we are one with Christ for out of Christ we are totally helpless in the battle against self and sin.

sky

Amen!

[Twilight]

Sinless perfection of the flesh is a pipe dream but not sinless character. Did not Jesus live a sinless life in sinful flesh as we all have?

sky

Indeed, our sinful flesh will be with us until the second coming.

But the part of us that responds to the sin in our flesh has been crucified and we have been raised in newness of life.

So as long as we stay in the promises of God, appropriated through our awareness of our spiritual poverty and through our great need of Jesus' merits, then we can consider ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God...

Mark :-)

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Sinless perfection of the flesh is a pipe dream but not sinless character. Did not Jesus live a sinless life in sinful flesh as we all have?

sky

By sinless character, you mean not even unintentional/inadvertent mistakes?

Romans 7 is an example of sinless character....

[Woody]

Quote:

but i personally believe that by the time Jesus comes we will be settled one way or the other

I agree with you teresa. But, I don't qualify. I will be dead before that happens. If not ... I am ready for Jesus to perform a miracle if He so desires.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

By sinless character' date=' you mean not even unintentional/inadvertent mistakes?

[/quote']

Romans 7 is an example of sinless character....

Far from being an example of sinless character, the man of Romans 7 is lamenting his spiritual condition that no matter how he wills to do good he always ends up doing the evil that he hates. Now if that is an example of sinless character, then there is no hope for us ever overcoming.

No Romans 7 is the experience of someone who has been a member of the church in good standing perhaps for many years even and yet is not overcoming and that is why he cries out, Who shall deliver me?

The deliverance is found in Christ by trusing wholly in the all-sufficient merits of His infinite sacrifice.

sky

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i agree with your general thoughts' date=' redwood, in that we are struggling daily. if we would be honest, then yes, there are moments when the HS wins, and times when the natural man wins.

but i personally believe that by the time Jesus comes we will be settled one way or the other. we will know what sin is and we will feel only abhorrence for such thoughts and acts in ourselves, while feeling only compassion for those who "willfully" sin.

course now the problem is, what exactly are we defining sin as? is our view limited and vague? are we being educated daily as to what sin is? or do we prefer to stay limited and vague?

are we resisting knowing what sin is? [/quote']

Let me categorically state as clearly as I can. As long as we are in this mortal flesh, sinless perfection is a pipe dream. But there is a kind of sin that I believe every believer must be free of to be in the kingdom. You can find the definition of this kind of sin in Nu 15:22-31, & 1 Jn 3:6-10 (see especially in the Amplified version on this one.}

not sure but it looks like youre disagreeing with me somehow, maybe not.

not real sure about the two passages put together and how you understand them either. but it does look like that is how you put 2 and 2 together to come up with whatever number you come up. i cant say which number that is because i dont know. :)

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

We are to surrender our hearts to God, that He may renew and sanctify us, and fit us for His heavenly court. We are not to wait for some special time, but today we are to give ourselves to Him, refusing to be the servants of sin. Do you imagine you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once! Hate the things that Christ hates, love the things that Christ loves. Has He not by His death and suffering made provision for your cleansing from sin? When we begin to realize that we are sinners, and fall on the Rock to be broken, the everlasting arms are placed about us, and we are brought close to the heart of Jesus. Then we shall be charmed with His loveliness, and disgusted with our own righteousness. We need to come close to the foot of the cross. The more we humble ourselves there, the more exalted will God's love appear.(1SM 327)

What a great quote!

[teresaq]

Quote:

We are to surrender our hearts to God, that He may renew and sanctify us, and fit us for His heavenly court. We are not to wait for some special time, but today we are to give ourselves to Him, refusing to be the servants of sin. Do you imagine you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once! Hate the things that Christ hates, love the things that Christ loves. Has He not by His death and suffering made provision for your cleansing from sin? When we begin to realize that we are sinners, and fall on the Rock to be broken, the everlasting arms are placed about us, and we are brought close to the heart of Jesus. Then we shall be charmed with His loveliness, and disgusted with our own righteousness. We need to come close to the foot of the cross. The more we humble ourselves there, the more exalted will God's love appear.(1SM 327)

What a great quote!

agreed!!

i also like Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

luke understood that to mean Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

but the top statement tells us how to "get there".

[teresaq]

Quote:

but i personally believe that by the time Jesus comes we will be settled one way or the other

I agree with you teresa. But, I don't qualify. I will be dead before that happens. If not ... I am ready for Jesus to perform a miracle if He so desires.

i dont have to push you into my belief, my brother, because i aint going to get too far in trying.

but the way i have come to understand it is possible, but not the way it has been taught. maybe youll come across that understanding and see the possibility, maybe not. either way it seems like such a silly thing to argue over.

[SivartM]

A lot of people take Matthew 5:48 out of context to support perfectionism, but what Jesus is talking about in that passage is loving your enemies. Most perfectionists just thrash their enemies.

[Woody]

Quote:

When we begin to realize that we are sinners

Yes. As simple as it might seem .... so many are deceived by Satan into thinking that they are not sinners.

We need to loudly proclaim WE ARE SINNERS SAVED BY GRACE.

[Woody]

A lot of people take Matthew 5:48 out of context to support perfectionism, but what Jesus is talking about in that passage is loving your enemies. Most perfectionists just thrash their enemies.

And that certainly makes them less than perfect.