Gods part and our co-operation...

[Gerr]

Quote:

Indeed.

Romans 7 is Israel in the "wilderness".

Romans 8 is Isreal in the "promised land".

Mark :-)

Good parallel. Thanks!

[wayfinder]

So your saying that we are to be a sacrifice just as He was. The disciples would not have any idea what He ment by this statement if He was talking about His death on a cross, they continued in the belief that He would establish His kingdom at that time.

Paul is talking about dying to the flesh, Jesus is saying here:

Revelation 2:10 NAS

'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Matthew 10:38 NAS

"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

[Robert]

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should no longer serve sin.

The old man must be kilt!

This points to the cross....Our old life was in Christ when His assumed humanity (which is our humanity) died. We died in Him 2000 years ago.

[Robert]

let him deny himself

You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself.

[Robert]

Quote:

Indeed.

Romans 7 is Israel in the "wilderness".

Romans 8 is Isreal in the "promised land".

Mark :-)

Good parallel. Thanks!

No, it's bad...it's made up...it's bad theology...it's out of context.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

let him deny himself

You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself.

and who of us, in all honesty, is doing that?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love' date=' pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself. [/quote']and who of us, in all honesty, is doing that?

If we are not doing that, then we better examine ourselves whether we are in the faith or not, converted or not, indwelt by Christ or not, indwelt by the HS or not.

Or shall we doubt the Word because our experience does not correspond with it? Sanctification [holification] is the work of a lifetime.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

Richard Holbrook:let him deny himself

Robert: You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself. t: and who of us, in all honesty, is doing that?

If we are not doing that, then we better examine ourselves whether we are in the faith or not, converted or not, indwelt by Christ or not, indwelt by the HS or not.

well if you believe you are living a "a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc" and are perfectly sin-free, so be it.

personally i see where i lack and need to improve.

i have to be honest and say i do not envy your claim. God may not agree with any who make such claims. He seemed to have approved the publicans claim to being a sinner over the pharisees claim to sinlessness.

[Woody]

Quote:

well if you believe you are living a "a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc" and are perfectly sin-free, so be it.

personally i see where i lack and need to improve.

i have to be honest and say i do not envy your claim. God may not agree with any who make such claims. He seemed to have approved the publicans claim to being a sinner over the pharisees claim to sinlessness.

Excellent Point and well stated Teresa

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I am a little bit suspicious that you are still describing the Romans 7 experience Teresa...

Where is the Holy Spirit in your experience?

im not sure you are truly referring to the HS...

but thank you for sharing that.

Still using the same sarcasm Teresa?

Why are you doing that?

[Twilight]

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should no longer serve sin.

The old man must be kilt!

The old man was killed Richard. :-)

Have you ever considered that this is "past tense"?

Mark

[Twilight]

Is there anybody who is able to show me where Jesus taught this, or anything close to this, when He was teaching in Israel?

Please can we not turn this into another "Paul was not inspired discussion" wayfinder?

[Twilight]

Sure,

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Taking up the cross Richard, is taking up the Romans 6:6 experience daily.

This is the conclusion I have come to through much prayer and study.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Quote:

Indeed.

Romans 7 is Israel in the "wilderness".

Romans 8 is Isreal in the "promised land".

Mark :-)

Good parallel. Thanks!

You are welcome brother. :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

let him deny himself

You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself.

Really?

We are to discard Jesus' teaching?

Who told you that?

:-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

If we are not doing that, then we better examine ourselves whether we are in the faith or not, converted or not, indwelt by Christ or not, indwelt by the HS or not.

Or shall we doubt the Word because our experience does not correspond with it? Sanctification [holification] is the work of a lifetime.

Amen brother.

Sanctification is the "increase" of the borders of the "nation of Israel".

Have you ever considered that.

Some think that "sanctification" is fighting sin.

But it is more about the "increase" of Christ in you, than the removal of sin.

Hope that makes sense?

Mark

[Woody]

Really?

We are to discard Jesus' teaching?

Who told you that?

:-)

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

im not sure you are truly referring to the HS...

but thank you for sharing that.

Still using the same sarcasm Teresa?

Why are you doing that?

i truly am not sure that the "spirit" constantly referred to is the HS. no sarcasm intended whatsoever. but thank you for sharing that. :)

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that we should no longer serve sin.

The old man must be kilt!

The old man was killed Richard. :-)

Have you ever considered that this is "past tense"?

these kinds of posts confuse me because they give the impression that the poster believes s/he is no longer sinning, ever, in anything.

is that what is meant?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Sure,

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Taking up the cross Richard, is taking up the Romans 6:6 experience daily.

if our thinking is the same on this then i would agree with you.

but i think we need to be careful to make clear that we do not do it perfectly. we do fail.

unless you are saying we do not ever fail (?)

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Robert

You really don't want to go here....Unless you are living a selfless life...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love' date=' pride, etc...you aren't denying yourself. [/quote']

Really?

We are to discard Jesus' teaching?

Who told you that?

could you be a little more clear as to exactly what it is you are disagreeing with?

who is living a "selfless life"...a life totally free from all self-seeking and self-love, pride, etc.?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Still using the same sarcasm Teresa?

Why are you doing that?

i truly am not sure that the "spirit" constantly referred to is the HS. no sarcasm intended whatsoever. but thank you for sharing that.

Teresa, if you continue to reply to mine and other posts with the sarcastic comment:

"thank you for sharing that"

I will have not choice but to report it to the moderators of this forum.

There is no need for this constant sarcasm and attempts to bait other members of the forum.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The old man was killed Richard. :-)

Have you ever considered that this is "past tense"?[/quote']these kinds of posts confuse me because they give the impression that the poster believes s/he is no longer sinning, ever, in anything.

is that what is meant?

Where did you read that Teresa?

I do not see that claim in the above post anywhere?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Taking up the cross Richard, is taking up the Romans 6:6 experience daily.[/quote']if our thinking is the same on this then i would agree with you.

but i think we need to be careful to make clear that we do not do it perfectly. we do fail.

unless you are saying we do not ever fail (?)

You would have to share your understanding before I could comment Teresa?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Amen brother.

Sanctification is the "increase" of the borders of the "nation of Israel".

Have you ever considered that.

Some think that "sanctification" is fighting sin.

But it is more about the "increase" of Christ in you, than the removal of sin.

Hope that makes sense?

im the first to admit that i can be quite dense...

so could you explain your thinking a bit more?

When Israel entered the promised land, their borders "increased".

Yet the promised land was always theirs, but only to the extent of what they had "possessed".

So as they "grew", they "expanded".

So it is with sanctification.

Sanctification is the increase in "holiness", which comes about when our "perception" of holiness increases.

Jesus reveals something about Himself to us, we receive it, we grow.

He shows us something else, we receive it, we grow.

So we can be fully "in Christ", but yet the capacity to "expand" never stops.

That is "true" sanctification.

That is how we can be "holy" yet "holier still".

Mark