What is the Gospel?

[Robert]

Here's EGW on man's sinful nature:

"Our earthly life, however long, honored, or useful it may be, is but childhood, frail, imperfect, and undeveloped. Manhood, with its full, perfect, glorious development, will come, when, freed from the taint of sin, we stand among the redeemed throng. Then we shall enjoy a life which measures with the life of God, and through everlasting ages we shall go on increasing in wisdom and knowledge." [sT 6-09-1881]

Note: Until "freed from the taint of sin" we cannot inherit heaven.

"When human beings receive holy flesh, they will not remain on the earth, but will be taken to heaven. While sin is forgiven in this life, its results are not now wholly removed. It is at His coming that Christ is to "change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body"(Phil. 3:21). . . ."[2SM 32, 33]

Note: When we are free of indwelling sin (our bent-to-self in our members) we can and will be taken to heaven. If God takes "indwelling sin" (the sin nature) to heaven, heaven will begin to look like this world.

"Adam sinned, and the children of Adam [you and me] share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression." [FW 88]

Note: Because of Adam's sin you share his guilt. Not because of his sin, but because you received his fallen life from your parents.

[John317]

Didn't Jesus die for us before we were born in order to save us from our ungodliness?

Did Jesus shed His blood only for the righteous?

[Dr. Rich]

Good question John. Since Jesus said He came to save the lost... I could see how one would believe, and be sincere, that Jesus' death did away with sin--that is IF they had no knowledge of HOW Jesus did this. He did this by testifying to the truth so those who were blind could now see.

It is about time. Jesus said that the truth will set one free from sin so He came to testify to the truth in order to save those which were lost to sin in order for them to repent and become righteous.

THEREFORE: Yes, before you were born and were ungodly because you did not know God, Jesus came to testify to the truth in order for you to be able to read what He said and know that it is the truth because His eyewitnesses wrote it down and the Holy Spirit caused those writers to remember what Jesus testified to. One who then is without God (Godless) and blind to the truth, can now have his eyes open to the truth and become righteous.

[olger]

Uhh, the gospel is the good news of salvation. Hope that's not too complicated. :)

[Woody]

You mention the word 'salvation'.

The question IS:

Are we 'saved' by what He did? OR .... Are we saved by what He WILL do?

[John317]

When I talk to people about Christ, I tell them that God loves them and that Christ died for them. I tell them that Christ died for them in order for them to be saved and live eternally with God. He died for them so that they can experience life as God intended it to be.

Do you believe I'm wrong to tell people this?

[Dr. Rich]

Neither--we are saved by what we ourselves do or not do. He said to obey and we are saved by obeying. Simple? ubetcha!

[John317]

We are being saved both by what Christ did in his life and by his death, but also by his resurrection, ascension, and His mediation in heaven NOW.

His work in the heavenly sanctuary is just as essential to our salvation as what He did on the cross. If all Jesus had done was die for us, we wouldn't have any hope of salvation.

Do you believe this?

[Woody]

No. Why wouldn't we have any hope?

I believe that Jesus proclaimed that it was 'finished'.

I trust fully in Him . MY Hope is in Him. Not what "I" do ... but what HE did.

Finished. End of Story.

[Dr. Rich]

No, the true gospel is this: Jesus came to this earth to testify to the truth. His words are truth. The truth shall set one free from sin. Therefore, wise up and read the truth and obey!

Jesus' death only made it possible for those who choose to obey to not pay the penalty for their sins IF they repent and ask for forgiveness and become righteous in order to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now that is THE gospel about the Kingdom that must be preached around the world before Jesus comes.

Do you believe this?

[Robert]

Now that is THE gospel about the Kingdom that must be preached around the world before Jesus comes.

Do you believe this?

No, this is that other gospel that Paul spoke of:

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you [the Galatians] are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people [the Judaizers] are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Here's what the Judaizers taught:

Acts 15:1 Some men [the Judaizers] came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised [one of the requirements of the book of the law], according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." .... 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees [i.e., again the Judaizers] stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

[pnattmbtc]

No, the true gospel is this: Jesus came to this earth to testify to the truth. His words are truth. The truth shall set one free from sin. Therefore, wise up and read the truth and obey!

[John317]

Quote:

Dr. Rich: Neither--we are saved by what we ourselves do or not do. He said to obey and we are saved by obeying.

Did the Israelites save themselves from Egyptian bondage, and did the sick people or the demon possessed get well by their works?

I see those things as illustrations of how God saves us. It requires our cooperation with God, but without God's grace, we can't possibly save ourselves, any more than a dead man can resurrect himself. Before we come to Christ, we are dead in trespasses and sins. How much can a dead man do? Nothing, right? So how can I save myself?

[John317]

Quote:

Woody: No. Why wouldn't we have any hope?

Because 1 Cor. 15: 11-19 says that if Christ wasn't resurrected and gone to heaven, you are without any hope. Our hope is not only in the death of Christ but all of Christ's work, including his perfect life and in what He is doing today. He is a living Christ, not a dead one.

Ellen White is clear that Christ's mediation for us in the heavenly sanctuary is just as essential for our salvation as was His death on the cross.

Quote:

Woody: I believe that Jesus proclaimed that it was 'finished'.

What was finished? What was Jesus talking about? It wasn't the end of His work for our salvation. The book of Hebrews, chapters 7 through 9, talks about the importance of Christ's ministry for our salvation.

But what was finished on the cross was the shedding of his blood. At that point, Christ proved Satan wrong and exhibited the love of God for sinners. He finished the work that He was sent here to do. But if it had ended on the cross, and there was nothing else that Christ did, we would still have no hope. For us to have hope of eternal life, Christ had to be resurrected and begin His work as our High Priest. He can't come again until that work is finished.

This is the teaching of both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy. It's the good news.

[John317]

Quote:

Dr. Rich: Jesus' death only made it possible for those who choose to obey to not pay the penalty for their sins IF they repent and ask for forgiveness and become righteous in order to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Even if you did not commit a single sin from here on out, it wouldn't be sufficient to save you from the condemnation of the law.

God doesn't offer us salvation on condition that we ourselves obey the law perfectly. That would be comparable to Moses telling the Israelites that they will be freed from Egyptian slavery as soon as they become righteous. Is that what happened?

Were they told that they would be able to enter into the Promised Land once they obeyed God perfectly?

Jesus Christ obeyed the law perfectly for us, and He puts to the repentent believer's account all of Christ's perfect righteousness. If it was up to us to offer God perfect righteousness, would you be able to do it? I know I wouldn't be able to. When are you going to be good enough to merit everlasting life?

Do you have eternal life now, Dr. Rich? If you do have it, how did you obtain it?

[olger]

You mention the word 'salvation'.

The question IS:

Are we 'saved' by what He did? OR .... Are we saved by what He WILL do?

Yes.

Next question please !

g

[Woody]

Quote:

Our hope is not only in the death of Christ but all of Christ's work, including his perfect life and in what He is doing today. He is a living Christ, not a dead one.

Our prophet makes it clear that Christ didn't die. Jesus the man died. But divinity did not.

[Woody]

Jesus knew what was needed. He did it. Salvation is secured for all that want it. It's a done deal. But, Jesus can do whatever He feels is necessary. And He has done it. But to say that if Jesus didn't do something there is no Hope is wrong. With Jesus ... there is always Hope. He has the power to do what is needed for us. And He has.

We can always back on the power of Jesus.

[John317]

Quote:

John 3: 17: Our hope is not only in the death of Christ but all of Christ's work, including his perfect life and in what He is doing today. He is a living Christ, not a dead one.

Quote:

Woody: Our prophet makes it clear that Christ didn't die. Jesus the man died. But divinity did not.

The Bible very clearly says that the Lord Jesus Christ died. Who but Jesus Christ said, "They will put me to death and I will rise again"? That could not have happened if Christ did not first die.

Could you give the quote which says "Christ didn't die"?

If Mrs. White says Christ did not die, she would be a liar. But she says no such thing. If you tell people Ellen White said Christ didn't die, you would be making her out to be a liar. That is the same thing that Mary Baker Eddy beleived-- that Christ didn't die but was meditating inside the tomb.

To say that divinity did not die is not the same thing as claiming Christ never died. The former is true whereas the latter is a lie. If Christ did not die, you and I are totally lost. Why? Because only a dead Christ could be resurrected from the dead, and the Bible says we have no hope apart from the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[Musicman1228]

Quote:

Our hope is not only in the death of Christ but all of Christ's work, including his perfect life and in what He is doing today. He is a living Christ, not a dead one.

Our prophet makes it clear that Christ didn't die. Jesus the man died. But divinity did not.

Your prophet, not mine thanks. Jesus was God and man. When the human being (physical body) died so did the part that was God; unless, of course, you believe that the soul of Jesus went back to Heaven to be with the Father while His body was in the grave 3 nights and 3 days. I thought we took care of this topic on another thread.

[Gerr]

Your prophet, not mine thanks. Jesus was God and man. When the human being (physical body) died so did the part that was God; .....

God dies/died? Hmmmmmmmm. An old pagan teaching reborn?

[Robert]

Could you give the quote which says "Christ didn't die"?

-BC- 5BC

-TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5

-CN- MAR2

-CT- Mark

-PR- 04

-PG- 1113

When the voice of the angel was heard saying, "Thy Father calls thee," He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died , but Christ now proclaims over the rent sepulcher of Joseph, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In His divinity Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that He had life in Himself to quicken whom He will.

[Robert]

-BC- 7BC

-TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7

-CN- HEB8

-CT- Hebrews

-PR- 03

-PG- 927

By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself . Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption. (RH April 5, 1906)

Note: Christ as God took humanity (the fallen race) into Himself. Hence His assumed humanity died, not His divinity. After all the law doesn't condemn sinless Deity. The law condemns sinners and by assuming "the fallen race" at the incarnation Christ qualified Himself to the Savior of the world.

[Robert]

Deity did not die. Humanity died.

Not only did Deity not die, but God's nature did not perish. What perished was humanity and indwelling sin - the nature of man.

-BC- LHU

-TI- Lift Him Up

-CN- 3

-CT- Lift Him Up as the Son of Man

-PR- 02

-PG- 76

Was the human nature of the Son of Mary changed into the divine nature of the Son of God? No; the two natures were mysteriously blended in one person--the man Christ Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died . Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible.

[Robert]

"Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible"

Why? It's impossible for God to die. Death is linked with sin while eternal life is linked with immortality. Since God cannot lie then God would never fake His own death. Hence the humanity that Christ assumed at the incarnation (our life from Adam) died.

That's why Paul could say, "You died to the law in the body of Christ" and "our old self was crucified with him".....We died "in Christ" because the life Christ assumed was the same life we receive from Adam through procreation.

All these truths are at the heart of the gospel.