Step to Apostasy

[Stan]

The first step of apostasy is

to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe.

The second is,

to make that creed a test of fellowship.

The third is

to try members by that creed.

The fourth is

to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed.

And fifth,

to commence persecution against such. - J. N. Loughborough

(Special thanks to Pastor Charles for this)

[Tom Wetmore]

So, are we just beyond the half-life of a heretic...

[Gerr]

Was he right?

[Stan]

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. "

[antcreations]

Amen Stan! And thank you for creating a portal for people to experience Romans 14.1.

[Woody]

Quote:

(Special thanks to Pastor Charles for this)

Who is Pastor Charles?

[Stan]

he is one of my heros

http://antcreations.com/

[Woody]

Cool. Oh Okay. You mean the Magician.

[Stan]

?

[Woody]

He's a member of the International Association of Christian Magicians. http://antcreations.com/

[Stan]

both him and his bride rank among my heros.

[LifeHiscost]

The first step of apostasy is

to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe.

The second is,

to make that creed a test of fellowship.

The third is

to try members by that creed.

The fourth is

to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed.

And fifth,

to commence persecution against such. - J. N. Loughborough

(Special thanks to Pastor Charles for this)

Probably the first step is something like the first bite of the fruit by Eve in the garden. Once it has been established as necessary, all the others automatically fall in place.

Jesus is definitely the first initiator of salvation.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”" John 8:32 NKJV

"Jesus said to him, 'I am...“the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.' " John 14:6 NKJV

However, in our freedom received from Jesus, if used to receive darkness, we will suffer the bondage of that darkness unless and until we again receive the Truth to the exclusion of the darkness. It is impossible for Light and darkness to dwell together.

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16 KJV

My point being, there is no salvation without freedom of choice. Praise God! But the choice to sin will lead us to unwilling servitude to the master of deception.

Regards!

[Gerr]

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. "

"If anyone shows up who doesn’t hold to this teaching, don’t invite him in and give him the run of the place."

[Jeannieb43]

The first step of apostasy is

to get up a creed, telling us what we shall believe.

The second is,

to make that creed a test of fellowship.

The third is

to try members by that creed.

The fourth is

to denounce as heretics those who do not believe that creed.

And fifth,

to commence persecution against such. - J. N. Loughborough

(Special thanks to Pastor Charles for this)

This is worth framing, and hanging on a wall, where everyone can see it.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Perhaps in this day and age, he would head the list with the church adopting an "anything goes" position.

We do no one any favors by confirming them in sin. And I am not talking about lifestyle choices, or straining at gnats and swallowing camels. What comes to my mind in this issue is the action taken by the GC strengthening the church's definition of marriage to be between one man and one woman. There were those there who wanted to change it to read two consenting adults. They feared the chosen language would alienate the gays and lesbians among us.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

[Gerr]

Perhaps in this day and age, he would head the list with the church adopting an "anything goes" position.

We do no one any favors by confirming them in sin. And I am not talking about lifestyle choices, or straining at gnats and swallowing camels. What comes to my mind in this issue is the action taken by the GC strengthening the church's definition of marriage to be between one man and one woman. There were those there who wanted to change it to read two consenting adults. They feared the chosen language would alienate the gays and lesbians among us.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

Well said.

"If anyone shows up who doesn’t hold to this teaching, don’t invite him in and give him the run of the place. That would just give him a platform to perpetuate his evil ways, making you his partner. " 2 Jn 10-11 Message.

[fccool]

Gerry... sigh ... CONTEXT!!!

Quote:

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house (church assembly) or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him (considering his theology) shares in his wicked work.

Who is the antichrist? Someone who is joining the community to deceive people in regard to who Christ is. It does not refer to people who have difference of opinions on doctrinal matter.

On top of that, you have to enterpret the Bible as a whole, instead of picking what supports your particular view... as we tend to do often. One thing is clear, that church should welcome unbelievers:

Quote:

So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

The verse you quote would warrant these people to kick them out , but Paul specifically trying to create atmosphere that would be peaceful enough for such people to sit, listen, ask and understand.

[Gerr]

Did you ask for the context of "welcome with open arms......?"

[fccool]

Gerry,

Let's see... after all it's the guideline for this forum discussion.

Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with

– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.

Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1

The context of the "welcome with open arms ...." is the discussion between believers. What you are quoting is addressing unbelievers coming to destroy and to preach that Christ did not come in flesh.

It's clearly not what is being discussed here.

I hardly think that the original topic is dealing with issues such as whether Christ came in flesh or he did not.

It deals with issues such as Catholic church first excommunicating, then persecuting and torturing the heretics.

[Gerr]

But the one's John was addressing were, I believe, Christians but were gnostics. To them Christ only seemed to appear in the flesh, but they were Christians nonetheless. So should they not have been welcome with "open arms" per Paul in Rom 14:1? They just were not seeing eye to eye with the other Christians on the matter of the nature of Christ.

[Stan]

what gets me, is when a new believer is trying to figure things out, and they get question over some of the questions.

It is similar to a previous thread, if a Scientist comes to Church, be better be convinced of a 6 day creation, before anything else is brought up.

There were folks who walked with Jesus for 3.5 years and more, and they did not fully understand everything.

If we are going to experience Grace, we better be Gracious.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Amen, Stan!

[Gerr]

I think you know me enough by now that I would always side on side of mercy whenever possible. On minor points of theological differences, let everyone have their own opinion. Let's welcome them with open arms as Paul said. On the other hand, he also said in Galatians of the Judaizers, "anyone preaching another gospel, let him be 'anathema', accursed." Or as the Apostle John pointed out, do not let the dissenters on major issues come in and have "run of the house".

[GreatLakesGramma]

With a new believer, the best thing to do is wait for them to ask questions. Let God do the convicting. He knows what he is doing. We often don't.

[pindoc]

We do no one any favors by confirming them in sin. And I am not talking about lifestyle choices, or straining at gnats and swallowing camels. What comes to my mind in this issue is the action taken by the GC strengthening the church's definition of marriage to be between one man and one woman. There were those there who wanted to change it to read two consenting adults. They feared the chosen language would alienate the gays and lesbians among us.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

Yeah, the GC wasted our time and $ re-defining what they've already defined, for no reason I can find but political gain. But planned ahead of time to skip addressing women's ordination. Sad.