The great "Ground Zero mosque" hoax

[Neil D]

Oh dear. Allah akbar to you too, Neil.

Why do you fear "fear"? Puzzling. Quite.

I fear fear because it makes people think irrationally. I fear fear, because irrational people do irrational things, like kill....

This is not a case of self preservation. The US is a melting pot of racial members...and each of them has contributed to our society. Has Japan destroyed our culture?

So, tell me...why is building a house of worship, that is going to be used as a community center in all of the truest sense of the word, why is that threatening you?

Why is building community in America so bad? Why is it that giving a sense of self worth in a concrete city such a bad thing?

The only reason is that you fear whose is behind it.....you are afraid...and you are thinking irrationally...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Neil, you seem to think you know how I think, what I think, and the reasons behind what I think. You are not God. SURPRISE!!!!!

You are violating the rules of this forum by attacking me. STOP IT.

Allah akbar.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I find that cartoon to be offensive to the memories of those lost on 9/11.

It wouldn't be so funny if the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver BC had been targeted and bombed by Moslem extremists, killing thousands of people, and now a mosque was to be built on *that* site, now would it?

[SivartM]

It wouldn't be so funny if the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver BC had been targeted and bombed by Moslem extremists, killing thousands of people, and now a mosque was to be built on *that* site, now would it?

No. So it's a good thing that nobody's building mosques on Ground Zero either.

[Overaged]

I agree; they should show more respect for the wishes and feelings of all those who lost loved ones at "ground zero."

[Guest]

Neil, you seem to think you know how I think, what I think, and the reasons behind what I think. You are not God. SURPRISE!!!!!

You are violating the rules of this forum by attacking me. STOP IT.

Allah akbar.

Yeah Neil, make yourself small, and quit pestering Pam. All mouth, all the time, is not all that good.

[Overaged]

I fear fear because it makes people think irrationally. I fear fear, because irrational people do irrational things, like kill....

Why is building community in America so bad? Why is it that giving a sense of self worth in a concrete city such a bad thing?

The only reason is that you fear whose is behind it.....you are afraid...and you are thinking irrationally...

Well; if I may offer my 2 cents here??? I didn't see your comments as "attacking" anyone, but it is a bit offensive to be told what you are thinking; when the person has not actually said so.

It is correct to say that fear causes irrationality; but how about the flip-side of what you are saying here? Why do people such as yourself fear so much to admit that something a Muslim person or group is doing can be wrong, or atleast in very poor taste? Some things that are "legal" in this world, are still wrong.

[Dottie]

Why is it said that the building site is not "Ground Zero?" Would it be "Ground Zero" if parts of the airplane, say, the landing gear fell into the top of the building on Park Place? Oh, it did? So wouldn't that be considered Ground Zero, even if no demolition and reconstruction had to be done?

Has anyone actually gone to google maps and looked at where the building is? Try the street level view. Interesting. Not too far from the official site, as a New Yorker would walk.

[bonnie]

Why is it that any opinion that goes against Islam or a refusal to place Islam in a special place of reverence it is labeled fear? Those that do not hold Islam followers above all others is either irrational,a bigot or racist?

[Paula]

My question is this... what would Jesus do?

When speaking of the "Terrorists" of His day (The Romans), Jesus said that

we were to Love our Enemies, Love our Neighbors as ourselves. Jesus taught

that if slapped on the right cheek, we were to give the other cheek.. if forced

to walk a mile, we were to walk a 2nd, if our coat were taken we were to give

our shirt as well...

So again I ask, if this was Jesus' stand in regards to the Terrorists of his

day, what would Jesus Do?

Secondly,

All Muslims are not Terrorists. Just as all Adventists are not Branch Davidians.

Thirdly,

The Bible has just as many references to KILLING and CONQUERING as does the Koran.

The Bible espouses stoning, husbands killing wives who are unfaithful, killing those

who do not convert, and taking their land. In the name of Christianity, this world

was plunged into 1260 years of TERRORISM known as the Middle Ages.

So then, do we now ban all Christian churches????

Fourthly,

There is plenty of evidence out there (including the petition of over 3000

Architects, Engineers, Building Demolition Specialists and Physicists from MANHATTAN)

not to mention a ton of other evidence (much of which is supressed in the USA, that shows that 911

was most probably a US government action, not a Muslim act. At which point, considering

most in US government are either Christian or Jews, I guess we shouldn't have any

churches nor synangogues near Ground Zero.

And Finally,

Are you all Adventists? Do we not believe that we will be persecuted because of our beliefs?

Do you not know that they will distort our beliefs and our truths in order to create mass

hysteria and fear among the masses? Why then would we tolerate this when done to others.

Anyways.. I am wholly with Neil on this. I see nothing of Christ in all the fear-mongering

and political doublespeak that is being used in this case.

Very sad, really

Paula

[Tom Wetmore]

OK, I was right there with you up until the fourth point...

You lost me with that hard turn into the twilight zone.

But you did recover from that brief detour and ended well.

[Paula]

OK, I was right there with you up until the fourth point...

You lost me with that hard turn into the twilight zone.

But you did recover from that brief detour and ended well.

LOL

Well Tom, I have family in Europe, Brasil, and Canada. You would be suprised to learn that most of these places don't believe the 911 story that is told here. One place you could look at (online) is 911 Coincidences on Youtube. It's a REALLY REALLY long documentary, but it makes one begin to question how so many "coincidences" could have happened without the US government being actively involved in the events of that tragic day.

[bonnie]

My question is this... what would Jesus do?

When speaking of the "Terrorists" of His day (The Romans), Jesus said that

we were to Love our Enemies, Love our Neighbors as ourselves. Jesus taught

that if slapped on the right cheek, we were to give the other cheek.. if forced

to walk a mile, we were to walk a 2nd, if our coat were taken we were to give

our shirt as well...

[Overaged]

My question is this... what would Jesus do?

When speaking of the "Terrorists" of His day (The Romans), Jesus said that

we were to Love our Enemies, Love our Neighbors as ourselves. Jesus taught

that if slapped on the right cheek, we were to give the other cheek.. if forced

to walk a mile, we were to walk a 2nd, if our coat were taken we were to give

our shirt as well...

So again I ask, if this was Jesus' stand in regards to the Terrorists of his

day, what would Jesus Do?

Paula

You should share your "testimony" then about how and when you have "turned the other cheek" to a Muslim terrorist. (or any other terrorist). Armchair religion seems pretty cut and dry until we make it a personal thing

[Overaged]

Bonnie; I must agree with you on this one.

[Paula]

[jasd]

>>Jesus said that we were to Love our Enemies,<<

...that we might heap coals of fire upon their heads.

>>Love our Neighbors as ourselves.<<

When asked who our neighbour was, Jesus Christ answered with a parable of the Good Samaritan. Its denouement was that your neighbour is one who does good Xtian deeds.

>>Jesus taught that if slapped on the right cheek, we were to give the other cheek..<<

And why, would a man strike another upon the cheek?—rather than, let’s say, a knee to the groin? A man strikes another upon his cheek as a demand that a wrong be righted.

>>...if forced to walk a mile, we were to walk a 2nd,<<

I believe the operative word in that teaching was the word “compel”. Jesus Christ would not have taught – that one having the authority to “compel” you to carry a burden – should be resisted.

>>...if our coat were taken we were to give our shirt as well...<<

The antecedent for the above was the condition “If you are sued at law...” Question: given the foregoing, wouldn’t it stand to reason that losing his “coat” ‘at law’ – was because he has been found to have wronged another?

>>So again I ask, if this was Jesus' stand in regards to the Terrorists of his day, what would Jesus Do?<<

Jesus Christ said that should one not have a weapon – that one should sell his garment and buy a weapon. In many cases that application would apply to a very poor person who – having sold his garment to buy a weapon – would then be naked. Nakedness, was a capital offense.

How serious was Jesus Christ about the matter of owning a weapon?—further, in owning a weapon – it follows – to what purpose?

>>All Muslims are not Terrorists.<<

No one is making the case for that. It is fact though, that their Quran adjures violence against the infidel – that’s you (unless you’re Muslim), me, mom, dad, sis, brother, children, relatives near and far, friends and neighbour. Moreover,

a little leaven leavens the whole.

>>Just as all Adventists are not Branch Davidians.<<

Indeed! I recall that the Adventists scurried to remove themselves from being tainted by association with the Davidians.

>>The Bible has just as many references to KILLING and CONQUERING as does the Koran.

The Bible espouses stoning, husbands killing wives who are unfaithful, killing those

who do not convert, and taking their land.<< [ed.jasd]

We might remember that Gd had given that land to Abraham a half-millenium prior.

Yes, the OT was severe and may rightly be condemned by the modernists – were we unable to fully appreciate what was in Gd’s plan away back then – and what precipitated that kind of an economy. Additionally, the difference between that bit of land and the world as envisioned conquered by Muslim teachings

is startlingly large.

However, let it be remembered that ‘Muslim teachings’ are not that of the past – but are current.

[jasd]

>> In the name of Christianity, this world was plunged into 1260 years of TERRORISM known as the Middle Ages.<<

Past. Present. Big factor, big difference.

>>So then, do we now ban all Christian churches????<<

Why? This is our land, our country, our nation, our inheritance, our posterity. NOT theirs! The Supreme Court handed down the decision that this is a Xtian nation. Others are here at sufferance.

The Preamble to the US Constitution:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, [...] and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

>>There is plenty of evidence out there (including the petition of over 3000

Architects, Engineers, Building Demolition Specialists and Physicists from MANHATTAN)

not to mention a ton of other evidence (much of which is supressed in the USA, that shows that 911

was most probably a US government action, not a Muslim act.<<

Some would take issue with your “was most probably a US government action” – and point to the IDF and to the MOSSAD – asking, “Why were there so many IDF and MOSSAD in America during 911?—almost all – explosive experts.... And what of the Israeli citizens caught literally with explosive residue upon and/or near their persons during 911?”

And why were so many of the cataloged Muslims who were supposedly on those airliners -- afterwards found – alive and well elsewhere?

>>At which point, considering most in US government are either Christian or Jews, I guess we shouldn't have any churches nor synangogues near Ground Zero.<<

Well, this is our country – and we, as Americans, don’t like to have someone spit in our eye. Witness the jubilance Islam-wide when we lost the WTC.

Per Jews/synagogues: well, theys got bunches of power and influence in this country – like, bunches, Bunches! LOTS!

(Bush Sr had a high in job approval of in the 90s – until Rabin came to town and asked for monie$$$$. Bush Sr told Rabin that he was amenable to the request, but he’d like a quid pro quo. He wanted Rabin and the State of Israel to talk to the Palestinians. Oh-oh! Perhaps,

you’ll remember the Jewish caravans that descended upon Washington DC from as far away as Los Angeles – and all parts – to protest Bush Sr. Needless-to-say, that was finito for Bush Sr. He was vilified and his numbers went through the floor – whilst he and his administration reached room temperature. He became a one-term Pres.)

Power. LOTS!

[jasd]

>>Are you all Adventists? Do we not believe that we will be persecuted because of our beliefs?

Do you not know that they will distort our beliefs and our truths in order to create mass

hysteria and fear among the masses? Why then would we tolerate this when done to others.<<

Who's distorting the beliefs and practices of Muslims in general?

>>Anyways.. I am wholly with Neil on this. I see nothing of Christ in all the fear-mongering<<

To “monger” is to sell. No one’s selling. Just vigorously stating opinions.

>>...and political doublespeak that is being used in this case.<<

Give an example of double-speak, as used here by those opposing the third largest mosque complex in the world to be built at Ground Zero.

This is all about Perception Management by those wishing to build the Córdoba House.

>>Very sad, really<<

Indeed. We need to re-establish the Posse Comitatus, the Citizen Militia, Minuteman, ETC.

[Stan]

Everyone,,,, this is a forum, not every one is going to agree, that does not mean they are attacking you.

IMHO, fresh eyes to the forum would say Neil was treated unjustly. That is my opinion.

If you do not like what someone says, you can put them on ignore so you will not see their posts.

[Neil D]

Neil, you seem to think you know how I think, what I think, and the reasons behind what I think. You are not God. SURPRISE!!!!!

You are violating the rules of this forum by attacking me. STOP IT.

Allah akbar.

First issue, I am not attacking you...I am attacking what you are saying....and what you are saying is coming from a fear based emotion.

And as for what you think, and the reasons behind what you think are all evidenced by what you post, pam....

And if someone says to you, that you are not coming from a love relationship with your Creator, and gives evidence of it from your own words, how are you going to handle those gems of wisdom that God gives in other areas of your life? If you can't handle the truth in over this, how are you going to handle the truth in other areas of your life? Are you going to tell God, "Stop Attacking me, God!"......

And what is this "Allah akbar" stuff? Are you looking to be investigated by homeland security for pushing Islamic phrases that cause others to fear you? or our community because some muslim type person is interacting with the other participants?

I am reminded by Jesus' words of being as wise as serpents but harmless as doves....

[Overaged]

>> In the name of Christianity, this world was plunged into 1260 years of TERRORISM known as the Middle Ages.<<

Power. LOTS!

That wasn't "Christianity." There is lots of power to that putrid lie. But it is a power from beneath; not above.

[Overaged]

Maybe this thread fits the #2 definition?

[Overaged]

My question is this... what would Jesus do?

The Bible has just as many references to KILLING and CONQUERING as does the Koran.

The Bible espouses stoning, husbands killing wives who are unfaithful, killing those

who do not convert, and taking their land. In the name of Christianity, this world

was plunged into 1260 years of TERRORISM known as the Middle Ages.

So then, do we now ban all Christian churches????

Fourthly,

There is plenty of evidence out there (including the petition of over 3000

Architects, Engineers, Building Demolition Specialists and Physicists from MANHATTAN)

not to mention a ton of other evidence (much of which is supressed in the USA, that shows that 911

was most probably a US government action, not a Muslim act. At which point, considering

most in US government are either Christian or Jews, I guess we shouldn't have any

churches nor synangogues near Ground Zero.

Very sad, really

Paula

You accuse the US government of a very serious crime; an absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory, totally unproven by the Bible; you denigrate the sciptures to a second rate sci-fi horror show; yet you purport to want to tell us to "do what Jesus would do?" You have missed the boat because you are waiting for the train!!

[phkrause]

A GP...

By the way that building that Muslims are wanting to put up a Mosque in, has been being used as such before 9/11, if I'm not mistaken! And this Iman that all are jumping on, he's been working with the US government for a number of years already. Doesn't anyone remember that President Bush used him, and/or was getting advice from him!!!!! But now that its Obama, its a bad thing!!!!! Wow talk about fear mongering. lol