The great "Ground Zero mosque" hoax

[jasd]

>>It's naked and raw prejudice.<<

It sounds like an organic dish for the omnivore.

Arrggh!—raw, good—prejudice, better. Nature’s web harness :-(

>>If you look at the reasons given for the objections it's about anger...<<

Bingo!—give this fellow a soda pop.

>>...and fear.<<

...and he goes and diminishes his own argument!—ain no’ got nuthin’ tah do wis fear – thas reto rical alligator dump. It’s about

ANGER!—like, your fellows did it and we’re not bout now – in the forgiving business. Ground Zero is holy ground to us – sanctum sanctorum – and two blocks, three blocks, ...ten blocks away is too close for your bulldust ‘community center’. You’re not welcome – build it further uptown or float it in the river, fer cryin’ out loud! Get smart.

>>Islam is seen as a threat cultural and otherwise. If this was a Buddhist temple, there wouldn't be a whisper.<<

Sheesh!—like the Buddhist was the ones done destroyed our Towers. Sheesh!

>>This is a cultural battle.<<

Ping! Ping! PING! Give this fellow a keg of suds.

>>"Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust museum in Washington."<<

Especially, when it was the US citizens tax dollar$ what paid for the Holocaust museum...

>>"This is demagoguery of the first order,"<<

demagoguery-schemagoguery – pbtpbtpbtpbtpbt – the Bronx razzberry...

[abelisle]

Hey! leave the Bronx out of this!

[Dr. Shane]

[Dr. Shane]

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:Shane

...we forgave the hi-jackers. That doesn't mean we stop hunting them down and holding them accountable.

The ‘tell’ was the paucity of condemnation (mild or vigorous) voiced against the hijackers – by our ‘in country’ Muslim community – post the 911 event. Even CAIR had lockjaw...

Even the ‘esteemed’ Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf will not label Hamas or Hezbollah terrorists; yet, he’s traveling around the world on our nickle (tax dollar$) trying to cadge monie$ for the building of the Ground Zero mosque.

I understand the pressures brought to bear upon them by their peers and by their Quran; however, c’mon, y’alls, theys supposedly, sought adoption by this nation and its good peoples! They’s haves to come down on our side of the fence!—or theys forever labels themselves – suspect.

So, we forgive them, then we hunt them down, and execute them, eh?

Pass the oxycontin... That sounds like a great high! Does it come in Technicolor?

Quote:

Quote:Shane

It means we bury the axe.

Their “axe”, yes?

Quote:

Quote:Shane

I am just amazed that so many right-wingers want to give up religious liberty and private property rights so easily.

“religious liberty”? So, you don’t have a problem with Santarians, Voodoo practitioners, witch doctors, the old Norse religion of Wotan and Thor – a la Hitler, etc..., practicing their beliefs here, whatever they entailed? If you don’t – the sane amongst us dismiss you.

Neither do our laws allow for the ‘laws’ of Islam to supercede our own laws! No “religious liberty” there.

There is property ownership and there are property rights so-called. Ownership does not translate into unfettered ‘rights’. Examp: a farmer in Bakersfield, a number of years ago, was found to have killed a few of a listed ‘endangered species’ – whilst plowing his land.

He lost everything – no property rights and no more property ownership.

The Imam Rauf may legally purchase the Real Estate in Manhattan. That does not necessarily translate to “property rights” – whatever they may be... ‘Legal’, in this instance, is governed by the police powers of the city.

[jasd]

Confederate Flag: it’s about State’s rights in the face of run-amok Federal activism. It’s about honoring the fallen Gray line. It’s about get your stinkin’, freakin’ hands off wha’s mine. It’s about, ETC...

“Republics are slow to defend themselves against enemies that advance, like Caesar, under camouflage. But make no mistake, republics always defend. Groups and categories of men may not be honest or brave, but when they are finally confronted with the truth -- as individuals -- they see no other course. They stand up and fight.” --Cicero (50BC)

“No country for silly men.” --JR Nyquist

“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” --Jesus Christ

And if you can’t even do that – for sheesh, fly the freakin’ Confederate Flag.

[SivartM]

It’s about get your stinkin’, freakin’ hands off wha’s mine.

Ohhh... so it's not about respect and civility?

[phkrause]

Dunno if this has been posted here yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque

No Bravus I don't think so.

This was right on the money. Very good article

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: jasd

It’s about get your stinkin’, freakin’ hands off wha’s mine.

Ohhh... so it's not about respect and civility?

When respect is one sided with no expectation of same from the other it rarely works.

Many immigrants to the US have no respect only expectations of what america will GIVE them.

Then you have the responsible,hard working immigrant that is grateful to be in the US.Works hard,takes care of his family and respects the laws in this country. They have very little patience or desire to interact to the first group.

If our laws are not to the liking of some it would probably be smart not to come.If there is a desire to heal old wounds quit slapping them in the face and telling them they need to like it

Knowing that there is more than a little wariness about followers of Islam some work hard at letting their neighbors they are not like the ones the blew up the twin towers.

Others really don't care,the chief concern is how much they can get with the least amount of effort expended.

[jasd]

Confederate Flag equals racism. Nonsense.

The US Constitution provided for and guaranteed slavery.

The Civil War was instigated at the behest of European Bankers and businessmen who saw the possibilities in the South.

There were few banks in the South, as business was mostly conducted by the honor system of a Gentleman's word. The South was a fruit

too tempting and ripe to pass.

The agitation for war began in Europe...

and was further precipitated when Lincoln broke faith with ongoing negotiations by initiating his April 15th calling out of the militia and his sending of the US Navy fleet to the Charleston Harbor, which the Southern States viewed as an act of war.

It seemed obvious that Lincoln was not about solving the differences between the perceived sovereignty of the several States and the Federal Govt, but upon War.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:jasd

It’s about get your stinkin’, freakin’ hands off wha’s mine.

Quote:SivartM

Ohhh... so it's not about respect and civility?

You durn tootin’ it’s about “respect and civility”. It’s about keepin’ your hands in your pockets and smilin’ real nice - like when you’re around what’s mine - until I tell you different.

[jasd]

>>If these people can afford to buy the land and build the mosque... so be it.<<

Buy the land, have clear title to it – and you still cannot open that liquor store near a schoolyard or a church.

To use the argument re the ‘rights’ of ownership re the Ground Zero mosque is fallacious.

>>1) Islam does not seek to blow everyone up, and we should stop associating Islam with hijackers.<<

Wishful thinking does not change reality. Born of a Muslim father makes one a Muslim. They, mostly, at times, fall from the ‘true’ path of Islam; however, they remain Muslim.

>>...would be like calling Hitler Christian.<<

Much attributed to Hitler has been done so via history books that have been outrageously untrue – that ‘Publishers’ and the hoi polloi, the regular Joe – may accept them. To simply swallow without tasting displays willful ignorance (not referencing fccool, but the general public).

That is not to say that all that has been laid to Hitler is untrue: it is my opinion that he was party to much evil. (But that evil pales in comparison to the atrocities committed within the USSR.) The Communist Party, and the West, by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles imposed upon the German peoples – made it possible for Hitler to eventually become Führer. Hitler, and the Nationalsozialistische (Nazi) Party, became those viable entities that culminated in Der Führer and the aspirations of the Third Reich.

>>2) This country was built around principles of separation of church and state, with the idea that state should not dictate religion.<<

Indeed, it has come to that; however, originally, it was only Congress that could not dictate – the States reserving the rights not specifically granted to the Federal Govt.

That “principle” of “State v Church” has so mangled the First Amendment that a Church University – accepting the application of one student carrying one dollar of Federal monie$ as payment against his/her tuition – brings the Fed to bear – with the Church having to accede to its mandates.

The Federal Govt now – dictates religion.

>>3) There's no "us" and "them" in this country. It's just us. If you don't like it, feel free to go somewhere mosques are illegal, and Christianity is the sate religion (like Vatican for example).<<

You seem to have blithely soared past such things as zoning laws in your embrace of the issue on the side of the proponents of Córdoba House being built cheek by jowl to Ground Zero.

Tolerance can only be carried so far before becoming noxious and deleterious. ‘Tolerance’, by general application, is itself – prejudice – when it is against the inherent rights of Nativism.

I can appreciate the sentiments expressed by your several posts. Those sentiments might obtain in the best of times; however, no one can forswear Gd. He promised!—that we, the entire world (and other forces), will take the civilization of man – to the abyss of darkest horrors. The thinking man or woman

can only forestall, ameliorate, and prepare his or her own (Tribalism). The promise and expectation of coming catastrophe is the conscience the dictates and/or allows.

That it is coming – one only has to see that it is so – by the aggressive posture practiced by the new wave of emmigrants to Europe. Soon, it may be that the Caucasians of Europe will, by necessity, become refugees upon our own and Canada’s shores...

Let it be remembered that it is not we who are driven to dominate the world through terror by The Sword of Islam. It is not for nothin’ that the sword is reverenced by placement upon Islam’s banners. Why?

No amount of PC rhetoric can disannul the words of the Quran, the Imams, and the jihadists – to engulf the entire world in war and terror.

Tolerance be dinked.

It is so sad, as so many Muslims are absolutely the salt of the earth. Islam is just greater than they, individually.

>>This is quite true, yet it can not and will not happen in an environment where we think that Muslim religion is "un-American".<<

Yumpin’-yiminy! Do you think a Muslim push for Shariah law in America is American? No? News Flash: they do push for Shariah – hence, the “Muslim religion, by and large, is UN-AMERICAN! Everywhere they’ve gone – they push, they agitate, etc – until the indigen is diminished...

That is not to say that they should not have their mosques. It is to say that - let’s not be idiotic about the entire issue of ‘tolerance’.

A European examp: Tolerance is German laws re illegal immigration. The Muslims are aware of these laws, and by every means – infiltrate the German State; whereupon, the State is obligated to support them and their needs until they are run through the system, which takes five years – a free ride, a pass for five years!

My kind of tolerance would dump them in the Rhine and bid them auf Weidersehen!—come back when you want to abide by our mores, and work!

The ones who truly attempt to assimilate are given jobs, and assistance needed to assimilate – and/or treated more or less benignly.

[jasd]

>>I don't think it has ever come up but would you tell me how you feel about the confederate flag?

Seems I remember at different times quite a hizzy fit was thrown by african americans because of what they claimed it represented. I don't believe it was illgeal so what was the problem again<<

[jasd]

>>And most of the prominent Jews have already forgiven there oppressors.<<

Are you certain? Let me ask, “Was Wagner a Nazi?” Why is Wagner in such a class by himself – that his works are not performed in State of Israel? ‘Tis pity, as his compositions are truly among the

greatest works of art.

>>...but he does tell us to forgive.<<

Disabuse me should I err, but wasn’t Jesus Christ’s caveat ‘to forgive those who ask...?

>>That's why so many who can not let go, are in such turmoil in there lives.<<

Sometimes, a greater understanding of events – lessens turmoil...

[jasd]

Have I kibitzed? Oh my!

In defense of the fervored voice...

Vigoricity is its own reward

[Dr. Shane]

Buy the land, have clear title to it – and you still cannot open that liquor store near a schoolyard or a church.

This is a house of worship we are talking about.

[jasd]

>>This is a house of worship we are talking about.<<

Coupla things: 1) no, it's about property "rights" and zoning. 2) so, is it a "house of worship", or a cultural complex?

Last I heard it was a conglomeration of residential units (restricted, of course), offices, amphitheatre, mosque, etc.

"You cannot fight the enemy who has outposts in your head." --Sally Kempton

[Dr. Shane]

I am just so surprised that so many people would give up their private property rights and religious liberty because of their fear of Muslims. Some day it will be fear of Sabbath-keepers that will make them give up freedom.

[phkrause]

I am just so surprised that so many people would give up their private property rights and religious liberty because of their fear of Muslims. Some day it will be fear of Sabbath-keepers that will make them give up freedom.

You see that too, I've seen that coming for years. Our Lord says to be awake and not sleeping. And if EGW is correct the Sabbath issue will be the the mark at some point in time.

[jasd]

>>I am just so surprised that so many people would give up their private property rights and religious liberty...<<

Wrong!-it is not about giving up our "private property rights and religious liberty" - it is about denying thiers, should any obtain - by means legal (zoning), that they build elsewhere than where they propose to build.

>>...because of their fear of Muslims.<<

The mantra is beginning to sound awfully silly - as though parroted - as issued from Media Central...

>>Some day it will be fear of Sabbath-keepers that will make them give up freedom.<<

Aww, fear future: indeed! there will soon be fear as compounded and synergized - that "Sabbath-keepers" will be but an insignificant part of the whole.

According to Writ - freedom will not, so much, be given up, but forcibly and terribly removed...

[Dr. Shane]

The same fear of Muslims that now drives men and women to oppose this mosque will one day call for the death of Sabbath-keepers.

[bonnie]

>>...because of their fear of Muslims.<<

The mantra is beginning to sound awfully silly - as though parroted - as issued from Media Central...

It has to be fear.It is unthinkable that there are many that just plain don't think it should be built in that spot for any other reason.

I listened to local radio programming today. Numerous call ins were from muslims and ex-muslims.

Many were much harsher concerning the building of the mosque there and the intent.

[jasd]

>>The same fear of Muslims...<<

Four-letter words are so, so, so..., what?-monosyllabic, yes?

I suppose that's why the jejeune gravitate so readily to them, eh?

[jasd]

>>...muslims and ex-muslims. Many were much harsher concerning the building of the mosque there and the intent.<<

Oy! by faith and Begorrah!-sanity emerges within our very own Muslim community!

[Dr. Shane]

I will praise the Lord Jesus if they build this mosque. It will mean there still is some love and tolerance in this world. I am all about love. I think God is that way too.