Membership of the SDA Church....

[Twilight]

We are here to discuss if there should be tests for membership.

To which you have responded that we only need to know "Jesus".

You have also then offered to share your knowledge of Him with me in a private chat.

To which I have found no reason to engage in as this is the place where the discussion started, so it can continue here, publically.

Now my question to you Woody, is "who" is this Jesus that one just needs to "accept"?

How do you define that Jesus?

Or will any "old version" of Jesus do?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I am just considering the argument that "no standards" are necessary.

I am not quite sure how one would derive that from the Bible?

JESUS is the standard. We are judged by HIS behaviour ... not our own. We are saved by HIS works. Not our own. Jesus is the First and the Last. It's ALL about JESUS. Man made "standards" like the Jews made ... are NOT our salvation. JESUS IS.

THIS is the Jesus I would like to introduce you to.

Yes I understand that Woody, no one is arguing with the general thrust of your point.

But the question is, is your Jesus the same as an "agnostic" Jesus that is just a "wise man" in some agnostics minds for instance?

Or is the Jesus you share with the world different to that?

[Woody]

I give up. I tried. I will not be baited into an argument by you Mark. Continue as you wish.

[Twilight]

I give up. I tried. I will not be baited into an argument by you Mark. Continue as you wish.

I thought it was a discussion Woody.

But I am sure someone else will come and pick up the point.

[Twilight]

The argument that is coming to my mind as I read the points people are making is this:

If we do not define who we believe Jesus is, by using biblical doctrine, how can we share Him with anyone?

If we have defined who Jesus is then ask people to accept Him, are we not asking them to agree with our doctrinal position?

Therefore refusal to agree with that is surely refusal to accept the Jesus we know and love.

An example:

Someone says:

I believe that Jesus will put people in hell and burn them forever.

Is that the Jesus we share with the world?

No!

So then, should we give some permission, to speak on our behalf who teach such a thing?

When we do not believe that is who Jesus is?

[teresaq]

JESUS is the standard. We are judged by HIS behaviour ... not our own. We are saved by HIS works. Not our own. Jesus is the First and the Last. It's ALL about JESUS. Man made "standards" like the Jews made ... are NOT our salvation. JESUS IS.

THIS is the Jesus I would like to introduce you to.

im not sure where the difficulty lies cause i got your point woody...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Woody

JESUS is the standard. We are judged by HIS behaviour ... not our own. We are saved by HIS works. Not our own. Jesus is the First and the Last. It's ALL about JESUS. Man made "standards" like the Jews made ... are NOT our salvation. JESUS IS.

THIS is the Jesus I would like to introduce you to.

im not sure where the difficulty lies cause i got your point woody...

Then maybe you would like to answer the question.

What standards do you use to define who Jesus is?

What makes your Jesus different from the "agnostics" Jesus, who is just a wise man?

[Woody]

Quote:

What standards do you use to define who Jesus is?

I don't use standards to define who Jesus is. Jesus IS the standard.

[Twilight]

Quote:

What standards do you use to define who Jesus is?

I don't use standards to define who Jesus is. Jesus IS the standard.

Which Jesus?

The Catholic Jesus who will burn everyone in hell forever?

Is that Jesus the one you are suggesting is the standard Woody?

Or the "agnostic" Jesus, who is just a "wise man", is that the Jesus you are suggesting is the standard Woody?

What is it about the Jesus you represent, that you think we should all accept as the "standard"?

[Twilight]

Is your Jesus the same Jesus the Catholics believe in Woody?

(The Catholic Jesus as defined by the Catholic Church).

[Woody]

Jesus has different qualities. As many as their are individuals. The Holy Spirit is at work with each individual. And each individual is at a different level in understanding Jesus. The Catholic Jesus will save people just as the 'Adventist' Jesus will.

We are not saved by the amount of knowledge that we have regarding who exactly Jesus is. This is not a contest.

[Woody]

Let me add this:

No One will fully understand JESUS till they get to Heaven. Jesus is FAR more than you can even imagine Mark.

I suspect that in heaven those who believed in the "Catholic Jesus" will outnumber those who believed in the Adventist Jesus.

But again ... this is not a contest.

[Twilight]

So do you think we should teach others that Jesus burns people in hell forever Woody?

Would it be okay for us to share that version of Jesus with the world?

Or would you prefer us to share a Jesus that destroys the wicked in one great event?

Which of these do you think we should share with the world?

[Woody]

Each denomination shares what they think is Biiblical truth. I think each denomination should do just that.

[Twilight]

Or doesn't it matter whether we tell the truth about Jesus and how He deals with the wicked?

Maybe we should just let anyone stand up at the front of the church and preach to everyone that they are all going to burn in hell forever?

Would that be okay?

[Twilight]

But I am talking about our denomination.

This discussion is about membership to the SDA Church.

So, would it be okay for someone to teach that Christ burns people in Hell forever, from our podiums?

Would you think that is okay?

[Twilight]

A politicians answer is not acceptable by the way...

:-)

[Twilight]

No, of course you do not, (I hope). :-)

With that in mind, we now have a "standard" that we have to uphold about who we think Jesus is and what His character is like.

[Woody]

But I am talking about our denomination.

This discussion is about membership to the SDA Church.

So, would it be okay for someone to teach that Christ burns people in Hell forever, from our podiums?

Would you think that is okay?

Let me ask you a question .... is legalism taught and preached from our pulpits? From my observation ... it most certainly IS. And membership has not prevented this. And I view legalism far more serious than whether Christ burns people in Hell or not.

[Twilight]

So now we have another question:

Should we present a Jesus that upholds the Sabbath, or should we present a Jesus that upholds Sunday?

Should we present that to the world as a people?

Does that "matter"?

And would we expect people to agree with that before they joined a church that taught these things?

Would that be reasonable?

Or would it be unreasonable to expect a Seventh Day Adventist to share this view on the Sabbath?

[Twilight]

Quoting is against the rules here Woody.

[Woody]

Quoting is against the rules here Woody.

No it is not.

[Twilight]

So you do have standards then Woody?

You don't think legalism should be preached from the pulpits?

So do you think this "legalistic" Jesus should be allowed to be represented to Gods people?

I do not by the way...

[Twilight]

You are right, I thought I was in the original thought section.

My apologies. :-)

[Woody]

So you do have standards then Woody?

You don't think legalism should be preached from the pulpits?

So do you think this "legalistic" Jesus should be allowed to be represented to Gods people?

I do not by the way...

Who preaches is decided by leadership. I prefer not to listen to legalists. But in some areas and churches ... this is done. I just simply avoid those churches and organizations within our church. But they are certainly entitled to do as they wish.