Common ground

[Stan]

In conversation with other faith groups, both Christian and none, it works best if we find common ground and show some respect for their faith journey..

Yet, many seemed opposed to this...

Is it the right thing or wrong?

What about Wiccas, Muslim, Hindus, aboriginals?

Thoughts?

[John317]

Great topic. Thanks for posting this.

I was just going to bed here on the West coast at 4 am, so I will have to wait to write a reply in a few hours.

Until then, I'm

[Woody]

I agree with you Stan.

But from reading the other threads on this topic ... I see that some are afraid of the other beliefs and don't feel we have anything to learn from them.

It's my belief that we have far more we can learn from them than we realize. And besides .... Jesus wants us to associate with them. How can we witness if we don't?

[bonnie]

I agree with you Stan.

But from reading the other threads on this topic ... I see that some are afraid of the other beliefs and don't feel we have anything to learn from them.

It's my belief that we have far more we can learn from them than we realize. And besides .... Jesus wants us to associate with them. How can we witness if we don't?

That is a little oversimplification.There are those immigrating here that do not want your friendship. They live in the large communities of like minded people and have no use for american friends.They do not assimilate,nor did they seem to come here with that in mind.

[Bravus]

{deleted by poster as inappropriate}

[olger]

I am glad that this issue is being discussed. It has the potential to reveal where people stand.

I was made aware of the Wicca/occult conjunction at Faith House Manhattan by Anne Bjelica. Anne has studied this growing phenomenon for several years and has an excellent presentation on Youtube. She has also spoken at camp meetings along with Kindra Davidson.

Influential men are becoming aware of what is happening and are deeply concerned, including the GC president.

The Bible tells us clearly to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them." We must not excuse ourselves away from this directive.

Question: Why does the Bible associate witchcraft with rebellion?

[bonnie]

Your obsessions are showing, bonnie: that whole post is what you say in every thread and a million miles from on-topic for this one.

[Neil D]

I am glad that this issue is being discussed. It has the potential to reveal where people stand.

I was made aware of the Wicca/occult conjunction at Faith House Manhattan by Anne Bjelica. Anne has studied this growing phenomenon for several years and has an excellent presentation on Youtube. She has also spoken at camp meetings along with Kindra Davidson.

Influential men are becoming aware of what is happening and are deeply concerned, including the GC president.

The Bible tells us clearly to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them." We must not excuse ourselves away from this directive.

Question: Why does the Bible associate witchcraft with rebellion?

If Satan is a defeated foe, why are christians promoting the value of fear?

You can say what you will, Olger, but my Lord has overcome the world. I live in awe of that....And guess what, He leads me...every day....I value that....therefore, I have no fear of where He leads....My job is to be an ambassador for Him and to tell others how good He is ....

Sometimes, that leads me to places that I normally wouldn't go...

....and this life isn't about me saving my life...It's about Him and where He wants me to go...and what lessons He wants me to learn so that I can spread the good news more...

[Woody]

actually ... it's been stated many times on this forum ... that we have nothing to learn from them so why be around them.

and the fear is that some of their beliefs might rub off on us.

how sad

[Woody]

Quote:

If Satan is a defeated foe, why are christians promoting the value of fear?

You can say what you will, Olger, but my Lord has overcome the world. I live in awe of that....And guess what, He leads me...every day....I value that....therefore, I have no fear of where He leads....My job is to be an ambassador for Him and to tell others how good He is ....

Sometimes, that leads me to places that I normally wouldn't go...

....and this life isn't about me saving my life...It's about Him and where He wants me to go...and what lessons He wants me to learn so that I can spread the good news more...

This is excellent. So well articulated Neil. I'm going to save this for further reflection.

You need to write an article on this and submit it to the Review. I am serious.

[Neil D]

Redwood,

that is true if our sight is centered on them.....

But if it were centered on Christ, and His leading, we would go places and have victories that would inspire all of us.....even ourselves...

[Woody]

that is true if our sight is centered on them.....

But if it were centered on Christ, and His leading, we would go places and have victories that would inspire all of us.....even ourselves...

[bonnie]

actually ... it's been stated many times on this forum ... that we have nothing to learn from them so why be around them.

and the fear is that some of their beliefs might rub off on us.

how sad

I have only seen that said concerning the occult. And that may be attractive to someone vulnerable. I am not sure we are to spend a great deal of time in the midst of that.

But More to the point why always indict "the others"?

As a chruch and as indivduals there is a lot of help,friendship,and witness being accommplished by "those others". You know the ones,those that have nothing to learn and are afraid

[Stan]

One of the best things to say is, with anyone who is 'different' I am an Adventist, and we have a lot in common. And then state some of the common ground.

[Woody]

One of the best things to say is, with anyone who is 'different' I am an Adventist, and we have a lot in common. And then state some of the common ground.

Excellent. I would probably state that I am simply a Christian with both similar and different beliefs. But either way.

I do like your suggestion of starting off with similar beliefs and having the emphasis on that.

[Woody]

Yes. Right now on the Hope Channel ... there's a Catholic Bishop speaking on a panel of Adventists. Cool.

[Woody]

The Mission of the Church is to bring in both good and evil into the Church.

When this is accomplished then the judgment will seperate them.

See COL 122-3

[Paula]

I think it's very easy to say things "theoretically"... but when dealing in reality sometimes we see things more clearly (which is probably why Jesus used parables so much)... so here are a couple of real life examples that can maybe shed some light:

1). We once had an evangelist come to our church from Brazil (I go to a Brazilian Church in the Miami area). He told of how he had been conducting 3 prayer weeks simultaneously once... he'd be at one church from 6-7, another from 7:30-8:30, and another from 9-10.. he said he was speeding through town in order to reach all the churches on time... then one day he arrived at the last church with about 10 minutes to spare and he was DYING of thirst. Well, next door to the church was a bar. There had been lots of problems through the years between the bar and the church (church complained about the loud bar music, drunken fights that spilled over, bar complained about the church music & programs).. the pastor though, was very thirsty and the water fountain at church only had warm water... so he decided to quickly run in, buy some water & head on to church...

Well, when he walked through the always open double doors in his suit, bible under his arm, every one stopped. The regulars had all seen the flyers for the prayer week w/ the pr. picture they knew who he was! And they started teasing him about being in the bar. He took it all in stride & asked for a water... as he was waiting some guys playing pool called him (teasing) to come play pool.. he declined... this went on for a while and then the guys had an impossible shot in front of them... smirking one said, Pr., we'll make you a deal... if you can sink this shot, we'll close down the bar for the night & we'll all come to church w/ you... but if u miss you'll have to play a game of pool w/ us.

Now, the pastor said it was really a nearly impossible shot. But he was REALLY tempted! I sink one ball and you ALL come to church? He sent up a quick prayer, and said ok! He took his coat off, and just as he grabbed the pool stick that had been thrown to him, a couple of church members walked by the open double doors, "PASTOR!! What are you doing!?!?!" "Oh, I'm just gonna sink this one, go on ahead, I'll be right there!" LOL.. He said the poor member looked like he was going to pass out... Anyways.. what the people in the bar didn't know was that before converting he had been a pool shark.. but he said it'd been 20 years since he'd played, and even in his prime this would have been nearly impossible... well suffice it to say, he nailed the shot!! They closed the bar, and everyone EXCEPT the guy who'd made the bet, went to church!! Many went the whole week, and at the end, several asked for Bible studies and were baptized!!

Now the pastor himself made it a point of saying that he hasn't been to a bar since, and he doesn't go around playing pool and placing bets to get people to go to church. He felt God had led him into that situation, had sunk the shot for him, and that God knew that there were several people there who were just waiting for the harvest!

We are to allow God to move in us and to guide us, and we should be open to that.

[Paula]

On the other hand...

I have an uncle who is a SPIRITIST... he is my fathers brother... He once complained that my dad would talk to him about coming to God, becoming a Christian, reading the bible, etc.. but had never even read the book of their religion (the gospel according to Alan Kardec.. so my dad got the book, and read it. But after my dad had read the book, it still wasn't enough... My uncle would have services at the spiritist center where they would conjure up his (and my fathers) dead mother.. did my dad go to that in order to "witness" to him? To win him over?!?!? Absolutely not!!!

On the other hand, we've gone to church with our mormon friends, our pentecostal friends, baptist and catholic friends, and they in turn came to ours sometimes. No one was ever converted from this, but they know more about us, and we know more about them...

In the end, the truth is that no one is EVER going to be converted because we asked them to pray at our church, or because we went to their church or read their book, or were tolerant. WE do not convert people!!! GOD DOES!! He converts them through his Holy Spirit and he DOES NOT need, nor ask us to compromise our faith, and our truths in order to do so. We are to love and embrace, and befriend EVERYONE... we are not however, to corrupt our faith for ANYONE!!

[phkrause]

If Satan is a defeated foe, why are christians promoting the value of fear?

You can say what you will, Olger, but my Lord has overcome the world. I live in awe of that....And guess what, He leads me...every day....I value that....therefore, I have no fear of where He leads....My job is to be an ambassador for Him and to tell others how good He is ....

Sometimes, that leads me to places that I normally wouldn't go...

....and this life isn't about me saving my life...It's about Him and where He wants me to go...and what lessons He wants me to learn so that I can spread the good news more...

Excellent post Neil. If our faith is well grounded in the Lord and his word the Bible we have absolutely nothing to fear at all.

[GreatLakesGramma]

What is the point of talking about looking for common ground with those of other or no faiths, if forum members aren't even willing to look for common ground with each other? I see it again and again here, and it came into this thread right at the beginning, people have each other pegged, and as soon as one certain individual joins in, someone else starts in on them.

People, if you can't find something positive to say about someone's post, or if they're just saying "the same thing they say every time," don't answer them at all! I'm so tired of so many threads deteriorating into one of the same few discussions that have already been beaten to death here again and again and again. I have better things to do with my time.

[phkrause]

One of the best things to say is, with anyone who is 'different' I am an Adventist, and we have a lot in common. And then state some of the common ground.

Stan my wife's cousin who is married to John McGee, I believe that's the way he spells his name, has done many seminars on just this topic of our common ground with Muslims. Sure there are many things we don't have common ground, but for the most part we have quite a bit.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

In conversation with other faith groups, both Christian and none, it works best if we find common ground and show some respect for their faith journey..

Yet, many seemed opposed to this...

Is it the right thing or wrong?

What about Wiccas, Muslim, Hindus, aboriginals?

Thoughts?

I was previously informed that on this forum no wiccan/witchcraft beliefs or quotes would be tolerated. Is that not now the case? If not, then everybody grab your athames and hold out your arms. Prepare for your initiation into the realm of the occult and meet your new master. He's a very nice gentleman, very charismatic, warm and friendly...does many good things for people. Lots of followers. Would love new disciples. Would love to have a chance to tell you about himself. You will be able to do things you never thought possible. New powers to heal; new powers to control what happens in your life; new powers to control others, if you so choose. It's exhilarating! Come one, come all! Join up! Open the door, and learn of him; learn the truth of the occult. It is not dangerous; nay, it will take you on an unforgettable journey. Learn new words -- the hidden power of the spoken word and new body language. Dance to the tune of a different drummer. Come on. Try it. You'll like it.

Samhain is about to come upon us. This is the perfect time for you to become involved. Talk to the spirits. They can tell you what to do, who to talk to, what to say, and when, and how. You don't need a ouija board. A simple piece of hedgegreen will suffice. Do you like velvet? Buy some, and make yourself a nice, warm cape. Snuggle up with your new master. Like candles? They can be used for wonderfully eye-opening ceremonies too. Like rocks? Rose quartz is very fine for runes; get some, and try it! Just imagine the power you will receive! Ahhhh. So inviting!!! The energy will surge through your body, and you will feel on top of the world! No need for psychedelic drugs! Your new master doesn't need them, and neither will you.

You will become much healthier with your new master. Vegetarianism is encouraged, though sometimes blood will be drunk, but that's just a small inconvenience, really.

Begin to write your own Book of Shadows...this will enhance your experience in your quest to understand the occult. Your master will help you.

I can't tell you enough about how kind this master is. He will let you have your own goddess to pray to; she will be with you forever, to guide and help you. She's even talked about in the Bible. Oh, and you can keep reading your Bible. That's okay, because your new master knows it by heart, too. But he can add so much more to your understanding of it. Prepare for enlightenment.

You won't have to do evangelism anymore. Your new master doesn't need that type of thing to gain new followers. Join up with a coven of like-minded people...they are good people; they may have even more knowledge that you can use and relate to. It's all good. Relax and enjoy the ride...

To hell.

[Woody]

What is the point of talking about looking for common ground with those of other or no faiths, if forum members aren't even willing to look for common ground with each other? I see it again and again here, and it came into this thread right at the beginning, people have each other pegged, and as soon as one certain individual joins in, someone else starts in on them.

People, if you can't find something positive to say about someone's post, or if they're just saying "the same thing they say every time," don't answer them at all! I'm so tired of so many threads deteriorating into one of the same few discussions that have already been beaten to death here again and again and again. I have better things to do with my time.

Some good points GLG.

Personally ... I try to give people credit when they speak 'truth'. The more positives we can give each other ... the better. Just as you have said.

[Paula]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

In conversation with other faith groups, both Christian and none, it works best if we find common ground and show some respect for their faith journey..

Yet, many seemed opposed to this...

Is it the right thing or wrong?

What about Wiccas, Muslim, Hindus, aboriginals?

Thoughts?

I was previously informed that on this forum no wiccan/witchcraft beliefs or quotes would be tolerated. Is that not now the case? If not, then everybody grab your athames and hold out your arms. Prepare for your initiation into the realm of the occult and meet your new master. He's a very nice gentleman, very charismatic, warm and friendly...does many good things for people. Lots of followers. Would love new disciples. Would love to have a chance to tell you about himself. You will be able to do things you never thought possible. New powers to heal; new powers to control what happens in your life; new powers to control others, if you so choose. It's exhilarating! Come one, come all! Join up! Open the door, and learn of him; learn the truth of the occult. It is not dangerous; nay, it will take you on an unforgettable journey. Learn new words -- the hidden power of the spoken word and new body language. Dance to the tune of a different drummer. Come on. Try it. You'll like it.

Samhain is about to come upon us. This is the perfect time for you to become involved. Talk to the spirits. They can tell you what to do, who to talk to, what to say, and when, and how. You don't need a ouija board. A simple piece of hedgegreen will suffice. Do you like velvet? Buy some, and make yourself a nice, warm cape. Snuggle up with your new master. Like candles? They can be used for wonderfully eye-opening ceremonies too. Like rocks? Rose quartz is very fine for runes; get some, and try it! Just imagine the power you will receive! Ahhhh. So inviting!!! The energy will surge through your body, and you will feel on top of the world! No need for psychedelic drugs! Your new master doesn't need them, and neither will you.

You will become much healthier with your new master. Vegetarianism is encouraged, though sometimes blood will be drunk, but that's just a small inconvenience, really.

Begin to write your own Book of Shadows...this will enhance your experience in your quest to understand the occult. Your master will help you.

I can't tell you enough about how kind this master is. He will let you have your own goddess to pray to; she will be with you forever, to guide and help you. She's even talked about in the Bible. Oh, and you can keep reading your Bible. That's okay, because your new master knows it by heart, too. But he can add so much more to your understanding of it. Prepare for enlightenment.

You won't have to do evangelism anymore. Your new master doesn't need that type of thing to gain new followers. Join up with a coven of like-minded people...they are good people; they may have even more knowledge that you can use and relate to. It's all good. Relax and enjoy the ride...

To hell.

Excellent post!!!