Common ground

[GreatLakesGramma]

This thought came to my mind as well Bob.

Jesus was very direct on truth and error.

Which gives us a clear example that there is nothing wrong with saying, "you have it wrong", as long as it is Spirit led.

I would NOT put it that way. That doesn't usually go over too well. Better to say, "I believe differently."

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

This thought came to my mind as well Bob.

Jesus was very direct on truth and error.

Which gives us a clear example that there is nothing wrong with saying, "you have it wrong", as long as it is Spirit led.

I would NOT put it that way. That doesn't usually go over too well. Better to say, "I believe differently."

That was not Jesus' approach with the Samaritan woman as Bob posted above. :-)

[Gail]

In keeping to the discussion, I would be interested in reading some accounts of success stories in dealing with non-SDA and non-Christians. What have YOU found works?

Inwardly I have a hunch that each instance needs to be taken individually, that much wisdom is needed, and that there is not any one-size-fits-all answer.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

This thought came to my mind as well Bob.

Jesus was very direct on truth and error.

Which gives us a clear example that there is nothing wrong with saying, "you have it wrong", as long as it is Spirit led.

I would NOT put it that way. That doesn't usually go over too well. Better to say, "I believe differently."

Oh. If ONLY that was put into practice. Excellent point.

[GreatLakesGramma]

That was not Jesus' approach with the Samaritan woman as Bob posted above. :-)

And you aren't Jesus, either. He already knew all about her and knew exactly what would work with her. Could you have told her that she had had 5 husbands and the man she was currently living with was not her husband?

I have used the "you are wrong" approach, and I've learned better. All it did was create hostility. If you don't care what results you get, you can do whatever you want. I'd rather plant a seed that will get them thinking and investigating for themselves whether there is any Biblical support for what I've told them.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

That was not Jesus' approach with the Samaritan woman as Bob posted above. :-)

And you aren't Jesus, either. He already knew all about her and knew exactly what would work with her. Could you have told her that she had had 5 husbands and the man she was currently living with was not her husband?

I have used the "you are wrong" approach, and I've learned better. All it did was create hostility. If you don't care what results you get, you can do whatever you want. I'd rather plant a seed that will get them thinking and investigating for themselves whether there is any Biblical support for what I've told them.

But you have just used the "you are wrong" approach with me here...

:-)

[GreatLakesGramma]

Different subject matter, and you know it.

[Twilight]

Different subject matter, and you know it.

Please consider your last two posts.

Do they not break the rules that you have just been arguing for?

I ask this in Christ Sister, not in condemnation. :-)

Mark

[Bravus]

Let's actually take a look at Jesus' approach.

Was he always unfailingly quiet and meek and non-confrontational? Nope: he slung some of the finest invective I've ever read, on occasion. But was he always strong and tough and confrontational? Nope: he was incredibly kind and gentle with those who needed it, even those who had sinned.

We don't have his discernment to decide which approach to use when, but we need to prayerfully seek it.

But as a rule of thumb he was gentle with those who were lost and hurting and seeking, and confrontational with those who were self-satisfied and thought they already knew all they needed to know.

[BobRyan]

In keeping to the discussion, I would be interested in reading some accounts of success stories in dealing with non-SDA and non-Christians. What have YOU found works?

Here is a first hand testimony of an atheist, evolutionist science professor who came to the point of rejecting evolution, accepting the Bible and Accepting the Adventist understanding of the Gospel and end time events.

Notice how it was done?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0i1aGiBsxg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8LrQdwSEU&feature=related

It is in 5 parts - each section is about 9 minutes to 13 minutes.

in Christ,

Bob

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

And you aren't Jesus, either. He already knew all about her and knew exactly what would work with her. Could you have told her that she had had 5 husbands and the man she was currently living with was not her husband?

I have used the "you are wrong" approach, and I've learned better. All it did was create hostility. If you don't care what results you get, you can do whatever you want. I'd rather plant a seed that will get them thinking and investigating for themselves whether there is any Biblical support for what I've told them.

But you have just used the "you are wrong" approach with me here...

:-)

Since when does stating a fact, asking a question, and sharing my own experience constitute telling you that you are wrong, anyway? You are the one that read in the "you are wrong." I didn't put it in there. My intent was more along the line of "I disagree with you." It was in the same vein as my previous post where I said "I would not...."

I am not going to get into a nitpicking session with you. I have better things to do with my time, and very little to spend here. So I'm done on this thread.

You go right ahead and use the "you are wrong" approach with anybody you choose. I don't care what you do, but I will never use that approach again.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I've been thinking about this, Twilight. In real life we all hang out with people we are compatible with, who have similar discussion styles with ourselves. The people I hang out with get highly offended with the "you are wrong approach." Probably the people you hang out with don't.

God made us all different, and that is good. But we have to be aware of the kind of person we are dealing with. I just hope you're careful not to ever use the "you are wrong" approach with the wrong people. Otherwise, you'll make enemies for the church.

[John317]

Soon after being baptized, my wife on two separate occasions met two women at the bus stop and simply struck up conversations with them and invited them to the Spanish-speaking church in Loma Linda where she was attending. Those women came and eventually were baptized and became Seventh-day Adventists. One of them is still one of my wife's best friends. It is often simply a matter of showing yourself friendly and inviting them to church or to study.

It's fairly easy to find people who are interested in studying. One way of doing it is to pray that God will lead you to someone who wants to know the Bible and then go knocking on doors and ask people if they are interested in studying the Bible once a week. Then you can leave a small piece of literature with them. On any Sabbath afternoon, if someone does this they're certain to find at least one or two people who have an interest.

[Stan]

Soon after being baptized, my wife on two separate occasions met two women at the bus stop and simply struck up conversations with them and invited them to the Spanish-speaking church in Loma Linda where she was attending. Those women came and eventually were baptized and became Seventh-day Adventists. One of them is still one of my wife's best friends. It is often simply a matter of showing yourself friendly and inviting them to church or to study.

It's fairly easy to find people who are interested in studying. One way of doing it is to pray that God will lead you to someone who wants to know the Bible and then go knocking on doors and ask people if they are interested in studying the Bible once a week. Then you can leave a small piece of literature with them. On any Sabbath afternoon, if someone does this they're certain to find at least one or two people who have an interest.

This is a great example, thanks for sharing. I wonder what the results would have been if she would have been confrontational?

[John317]

This is a great example, thanks for sharing. I wonder what the results would have been if she would have been confrontational?

That would be predictable.

But there are times when it is necessary to be "confrontational."

When I was going to PUC, a bunch of us students went down to the SDA church in Berkeley every Sabbath, and after church we would all go to the univeristy campus and talk to people and give out literature and invite them to a vesper program at the church. There would be a short devotional program and then we'd have something to eat. But on the street and in the campus, we would meet all kinds of people, and some of them would publicly and very vocally attack Christianity and the Bible. Some of the PUC students preached and they would be harrassed by students who were opposed to belief in God or opposed Christ, and it was necessary to show that they were wrong. There was often a large crowd waiting to see the response to those accusations against the Bible and against Christians, and it was impossible to ignore them. It would have made it seem that Christians had no answer.

But that was a different situation than when we're simply out talking to people. At that time, it is definitely not a good idea to be confrontational. In fact, it's best to be just the opposite-- the main thing is to show yourself friendly and interested in them. But we never want to say we agree when we don't, yet at the same time, it's not necessary to offend people by telling them all the truth at one time. There's a time for them to learn those truths, but it's better for them to see them on their own with their own eyes as the Bible is opened to them.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

This is a great example, thanks for sharing. I wonder what the results would have been if she would have been confrontational?

That would be predictable.

But there are times when it is necessary to be "confrontational."

When I was going to PUC, a bunch of us students went down to the SDA church in Berkeley every Sabbath, and after church we would all go to the univeristy campus and talk to people and give out literature and invite them to a vesper program at the church. There would be a short devotional program and then we'd have something to eat. But on the street and in the campus, we would meet all kinds of people, and some of them would publicly and very vocally attack Christianity and the Bible. Some of the PUC students preached and they would be harrassed by students who were opposed to belief in God or opposed Christ, and it was necessary to show that they were wrong. There was often a large crowd waiting to see the response to those accusations against the Bible and against Christians, and it was impossible to ignore them. It would have made it seem that Christians had no answer.

Was there ever any success? Berkeley is like Athens/Mars Hill.

[Twilight]

Being direct is not the same as being confrontational.

But there are times also to confront error, as Christ did quite adamantly.

The danger is when we start to make "rules" about doing it this way, or doing it that way.

We are to be Spirit led people.

And the Spirit will deal with different people in different ways...

Mark :-)

[Woody]

and some are more Sprit lead than others.

thus lies the problem.

[olger]

Ok, that was negative.

Happy Sabbath and blessings to all.

g

[LifeHiscost]

In conversation with other faith groups, both Christian and none, it works best if we find common ground and show some respect for their faith journey..

Yet, many seemed opposed to this...

Is it the right thing or wrong?

What about Wiccas, Muslim, Hindus, aboriginals?

Thoughts?

Not at all to indicate that all other faiths but the one which is the apple of God's eye, should be avoided, but a question comes to mind.

When we sleep with the devil, can we expect not to be burned?

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

John 10:16 NKJV

"For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock."

Acts 20:29 NKJV

"“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. "Matthew 10:16 NKJV

"For thus says the LORD of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye."

Zechariah 2:8 NKJV

God blesses!

[Bravus]

I don't think anyone's talking about sleeping with them.

[John317]

When I was going to PUC, a bunch of us students went down to the SDA church in Berkeley every Sabbath, and after church we would all go to the univeristy campus and talk to people and give out literature and invite them to a vesper program at the church. There would be a short devotional program and then we'd have something to eat.

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Was there ever any success? Berkeley is like Athens/Mars Hill.

Street work like that is very difficult and it's always hard to measure the success you're having. It's like counseling juvenile delinquents in that way, which I did for a long time. Change is slow-- and sometimes it is one step forward and two back and then two forward and one back-- but in the meantime a lot is happening under the skin that you don't always see. We were also going door to door handing out literature, and doing the same in the street and on the campus. Just making friends with people and sitting talking to them about Christ and the Bible. Of course we were surrounded by Hare Krishna devotees and militant atheists and many others.

We had success in bringing people to the vesper services where they heard messages about the gospel. They asked a lot of questions and had answers given to them from the Bible. But I don't recall anyone being baptized or becoming a member of the church through that work.

We really didn't do it with an eye to making members but rather our purpose was really only to share Christ and give people the opportunity to learn the Adventist message. When we do that kind of work, we have to realize that while God uses us to plant seeds or water the seed that someone else helped to plant, we will probably only see the final result when we get to heaven.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

We are to allow God to move in us and to guide us, and we should be open to that.

"But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’"Jeremiah 7:23 NKJV

God Blesses!

[SivartM]

I don't think anyone's talking about sleeping with them.

And "they" are not the devil, either.

[Stan]

ok.... let's get back on track....

YOu have a co-worker, and dedicated, thinking atheist. ( not someone who says they are an atheist, just because they are lazy and have not really thought deep about anything)

You say

We have a lot in common, mainly _________________________

What goes in that blank?