Sonny Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 If every single incident is God's will and we are not meant to act/intervene, we might as well sit at home and not work--if it's God's will that we eat, manna will fall for us. See where that line of thinking leads? No, that's stupid. It's bad logic. The issue is to love your enemy as yourself. Would you kill yourself...then don't kill your enemy even if he kills you. As Christians we are not to render evil for evil. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 28, 2011 Moderators Posted January 28, 2011 Moderator to all participants: Help make this discussion less personal and confrontational. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
LifeHiscost Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 You do not have the intelligence or the ability to know where anyone else's conclusions come from. It would appear a reason can be found to lay to rest, every promise given by God. This allows the person who believes they have to use their own perceived might and power to save themselves and those who have been entrusted to their care, to slay the enemy in the process. "I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors,for you have given me wisdom and strength.You have told me what we asked of you and revealed to us what the king demanded.”" Daniel 2:23 NLT "And know and understand His will and discerningly approve the better things and have a sense of what is vital, because you are instructed by the Law;" Romans 2:18 AMP However I would admit, as long as you are highly satisfied with the successful tenor of your life and seeing no need to regret or change, it is the Holy Spirit alone Who has the ability to discern the true needs of your soul, hopefully with the Word but with other means as it becomes necessary and/or desired. I believe that is a reason why the preacher. "...seeing in the wisdom of God, the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing." 1 Corinthians 1:21 YLT "I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:1-4 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 ANYONE THAT STANDS BY AND LET'S SOMEONE,ESPECIALLY A CHILD BE HARMED OR WORSE IS AS EVIL AS THE ONE COMMITTING THE CRIME If a child dies innocent, with limited ability to protect their self, they will not lose their eternal home though they had never met Jesus. However, one having learned the difference between God's call to reveal His love, and believes the way to show that love is by taking the life of a lawbreaker, has only to explain to God their good intentions, Who then will set the record straight. Many are convinced God will do nothing to save the innocent unless we take the law into our own hands to help God. I choose to rest in the Word. "For we know Him Who said, Vengeance is Mine [retribution and the meting out of full justice rest with Me]; I will repay [i will exact the compensation], says the Lord. And again, The Lord will judge and determine and solve and settle the cause and the cases of His people." Hebrews 10:30 AMP brackets their's LHC However I do see the wisdom of standing between the malefactor and the child, while pleading in the name of Jesus, that one's own life be taken rather than the child's. I'm convinced that when lifting up the name of Jesus as reason for another's safety, or even for one's own safety, Jesus will make Himself responsible for the end result of the circumstance, as I have experience personal circumstances in my own life. This is the promise I acted upon, believing the principle applied to all who would walk in God's will as they understood it. Jesus was true to His Word and did not disappoint me in my trust. "“Why don’t you talk to me?” Pilate demanded. “Don’t you realize that I have the power to release you or crucify you?” Then Jesus said, “You would have no power over me at all unless it were given to you from above. So the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.”"John 19:10-12 NLT God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Sonny Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 In reality, Bonnie - because I live in a fallen world - I would protect my wife if someone tried to do her harm. I might die trying.... The thing is I don't have any guns. I just don't feel the need of one. If I felt that I needed a gun I would probably move out into the country instead. Let's say someone busted the door down and pulled a gun on my wife and me. If I had a gun at this point it wouldn't help. If I knew (and you don't always know) that he was going to kill us I would probably try to wrestle the gun from his hand. If I did and he fought back, in my flesh, I would probably shoot him. I just hope that never happens; so I ask God daily for His love and protection. I still believe that unless God doesn't intervene my time will not come - I will continue to live. Quote
bonnie Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 In reality, Bonnie - because I live in a fallen world - I would protect my wife if someone tried to do her harm. I might die trying.... Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sonny Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 As God’s children, Satan or the world cannot touch us unless God permits it. All power is given to Christ. “Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.” (1 John. 4:4) If God says, “No,” nobody can touch you. They tried to touch Christ, but as long as His hour had not yet come, nobody could touch Him. Again, if God doesn’t want you to die nobody can touch you. If He wants you to die, thank Him, for all your worries will be over. You will go to sleep until He comes. Hence, we can say with Paul, “For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.” (Phil. 1:21) Quote
bonnie Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 As God’s children, Satan or the world cannot touch us unless God permits it. All power is given to Christ. “Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.” (1 John. 4:4) If God says, “No,” nobody can touch you. They tried to touch Christ, but as long as His hour had not yet come, nobody could touch Him. Again, if God doesn’t want you to die nobody can touch you. If He wants you to die, thank Him, for all your worries will be over. You will go to sleep until He comes. Hence, we can say with Paul, “For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.” (Phil. 1:21) That means you/wife or children have never seen a DR or had a life threatening illness.Or if you should in the future you will not seek help from a DR as satan is the cause. If he wants a loved one of yours to die today please rejoice. Be happy when or if you lose a child. For me, I do not believe God wants any of us to die. Satan causes death and illness. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 For me, I do not believe God wants any of us to die. Then why do we die? Quote
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 That means you/wife or children have never seen a DR.... What does this have to do with guns? Quote
bonnie Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie That means you/wife or children have never seen a DR.... What does this have to do with guns? No we are talking about interfering with the day God has planned or wants you to die.Is it only interferring if their is violence against another. My two sisters were killed by a drunk.I understand that to you God meant that day for them to die.Passerby's saved the life of my dad,did they interfere with God's plan for him to die too? Why would you even concern yourself with medical attention.If God does not want you to die the Dr's are unnecessary .If he wants you to die that day if they save your life they must be interfering with God's plan for your death You sound a great deal like a previous member. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie For me, I do not believe God wants any of us to die. Then why do we die? To me, to believe God wants any to die is a perverted vision of God.We live in a world with sin.Most understand that.Sin caused the man that killed my sisters to get drunk and behind the wheel of a car.GOD DID NOT I don't believe that God micro-manages this world and HE does allow death. If he did not allow the bad with the good this would be like heaven and I don't think it is. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 To me, to believe God wants any to die is a perverted vision of God.We live in a world with sin.Most understand that.Sin caused the man that killed my sisters to get drunk and behind the wheel of a car.GOD DID NOTI don't believe that God micro-manages this world and HE does allow death. If he did not allow the bad with the good this would be like heaven and I don't think it is. That didn't answer my question. Quote
Members phkrause Posted January 31, 2011 Members Posted January 31, 2011 Read the book of Job, Sonny and you will have your answer as to why! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 No we are talking about interfering with the day God has planned or wants you to die. I don't think that I've said God plans or wants us to die. Nevertheless, we live in a world saturated in iniquity. Because of this danger lurks at every corner. If God didn't intervene most of us would be dead. However, there are many times He doesn't intervene. The reason? Only God knows. The issue is do we trust Him? If we see Him as "agape" (as in God is love) then yes we can trust Him. I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard or that our faith wouldn't take a setback, but in the end we either trust God or not. Is He Sovereign or not? Ask Job when his family was wiped out. Ask the moms who lost their male infants by the hands of King Herod. The list goes on. Could God have prevented it? Yes, but He didn't, why? One of the big questions goes back to origin of our problems. If God is omniscient (as He is) He knew that Lucifer would rebel against God's agape and bring in sin (agape, bent back to self). Then why did God create Lucifer? That's the big question! What's the answer? "We see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." Quote
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Read the book of Job, Sonny and you will have your answer as to why! The answer to what? Quote
Members phkrause Posted January 31, 2011 Members Posted January 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: pkrause Read the book of Job, Sonny and you will have your answer as to why! The answer to what? What you already forgot your question????? "Why do we die?" Did you not ask that question? And you can add Genesis to that also. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I don't think that I've said God plans or wants us to die. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I am not sure which question you are referring to. But if it why do we die then? we die because of sin . Did God want my sisters to die? NO A friend of mine since our teenage years,seemingly healthy just died of a massive stroke. Did God want her to die? NO My cousin that had so much to live for passed away recently.Did God want her dead? NO I am thankful that even with what my parents must have been going thru they had a firmer grip on their faith. If there is a God that wants people to die,you can have him,I am not interested Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 What you already forgot your question????? "Why do we die?" Did you not ask that question? Yes, but you didn't give an answer. You just said "read the book of Job". That's not an answer.... Quote
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Sonny said....Again, if God doesn’t want you to die nobody can touch you. Okay...I see. It's not that God wants you to die, but sometimes dying brings life - eternal life. God does everything out of agape. It's not always easy to see I'm sure. Quote
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Again, if God doesn’t want you to die nobody can touch you is a hideous thought as far as I am concerned. I know of a woman whose husband was questioning God. He was going down a path of unbelief...he was slowly hardening his heart. So the woman prayed to God, "please God, do not allow my husband to be lost." Not long after this he died...I think in car accident. Did God kill him? No! God doesn't kill. Then what happened? God didn't intervene. He allowed the natural progression of what would have occurred without Him. Death is a result of Satan's kingdom, but in love & mercy God allows us to pass on from time to time. Quote
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 A friend of mine since our teenage years, seemingly healthy just died of a massive stroke. Did God want her to die? NO Quote
bonnie Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: bonnie A friend of mine since our teenage years, seemingly healthy just died of a massive stroke. Did God want her to die? NO Apparently God, who is Sovereign, didn't intervene. God could have stopped this, but out of love He didn't. Otherwise God isn't in control and everything happens by chance.... Quote: My cousin that had so much to live for passed away recently.Did God want her dead? NO I say this respectively: You don't know the future....God does. Everything He allows is out of love. That doesn't mean we don't question God or get angry with Him.... The underlined has little to do with you general tone and theme throughout this topic. Reading your other posts mesh with your view on this. Everyone is rotten,there is no one that does anything without a selfish motive,regardless of what they do it is wrong. There are children that are reared hearing these words while growing up, some end up doing some pretty hideous things. Think there is a connection to that type of thinking? Tell someone long enough how worthless they are by throwing bible texts at them to prove it you will see results I don't think God intended with the biblical words. For me,I don't think God wants anyone to die. Why some do so tragically I don't know.But neither does anyone else. I will stick with my parents beliefs. At the end of any prayer it was "God,help me to face whatever may come". That doesn't mean we don't question God or get angry with Him.... Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Sonny Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Since God is Sovereign, Lord of the universe, nothing happens without His permission. It is for this reason that God assumes the blame for all the bad things that have happened and that are happening in this world. In the fulfillment of the Day of Atonement, however, the blame will be put on Satan, the one who is really responsible for the sin problem. This is whom the scapegoat represents, the one who truly deserves the blame for our sin problem. Quote
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