I used to be a rocker

[Bravus]

Colour is light and light is energy, too. Just sayin'.

[Tom Wetmore]

Since I became a Christian I've always found it interesting that the subject of music and it's attending influence has been such a volatile and divisive topic among Christians. Non-Christians usually have good natured disagreements about which genre is preferable. Most seem to agree that music itself is not objectively good or bad. But take music into the spiritual rehelm and it creates on a whole different attitude amongst Christians. I'd like to see the subject of music treated in an analytical fashion, without all the personal attachments,by a group of Christians. Is it possible or is the baggage too heavy?

Ed Christian wrote a fine book, Joyful Noise that gave a calm and ration view of music in church.

But it seems the more rational and dispassionate the analysis, the more it inflames certain fanatics. Its as if they want music to be divisive.

We could take the approach of the Church of Christ and not allow any instrumental music. They have only a-cappella singing in church. Of course after the secular a-acappella group I went to see yesterday, they might re-think that idea!

[Tom Wetmore]

...Different numbers, colors, or web-browsers have no such affect on our spirituality.

The number 6 vs. the number 7... rather Biblical in fact.

And what about that long cool woman in a black dress...

Look at a woman in a red dress and then the same woman in the same style dress in blue...

Mood lighting is color specific. Color most definitely effects mood, just as much as certain sounds and smells.

We are sensory and emotional to the core. These things are very hard to disentangle and to easily isolate for objective analysis.

When it comes to music efforts have been to made to scientifically isolate the musical tones, etc. to gage their effect on emotions. The result is they cease to be music and are reduced to meaningless noise.

An excellent book on the topic is

This is Your Brain on Music

As for web browsers - Well, Windows Explorer is Satanic and Safari is heavenly... Go Mac!

[doug yowell]

Of course after the secular a-acappella group I went to see yesterday, they might re-think that idea!

Yikes!! I hope they weren't lip syncing any of those songs that Richard,Woody,and I were recording together!!

[doug yowell]

I doubt that as I mature I'll understand, because we are from different generations; your generation saw rock music and such as new, edgy, rebellious. My generation thinks it sounds good. Quite a difference there.

And our generation didn't think it sounded good? You seem to assume that our only reason for our listening to it was to prove that we could be edgy and rebellious.Maybe we liked it for the way it made us feel emotionally.Don't forget that today's music was built on yesterday's music.Each contemporary generation,including yours,tweaks something from the past and presents it as new.

[Stan]

Tom have you gone Mac?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yep!!! And I'll never go back! I've had it about a month.

The GC upgrades our laptops every 3 years. I was never so glad to get rid of the Dell! They stopped buying Dell laptops this year. The one plus of Dell was great service. That is because they have so much opportunity and experience having to provide service.

The GC gave us two options this year, an Lenovo Thinkpad or a Macbook Pro. On the Mac they will install either Windows or Leopard OS but not both. I chose Leopard and am glad I did.

[MariaS]

Originally Posted By: John317

Don't worry- as you mature, you'll understand. :-)

We're talking about the affect of different tones, or differenet beats, and kinds of music, upon the mind and body, i.e., our spirituality.

Different numbers, colors, or web-browsers have no such affect on our spirituality.

I know what you're talking about, I just don't think it's factual. Musical beats can increase heart rate, tones can invoke certain emotions, but I've never seen a correlation between music preferences and spirituality. The most that music does to me is change my mood, and I don't mean into a satanic rebellious rage.

I doubt that as I mature I'll understand, because we are from different generations; your generation saw rock music and such as new, edgy, rebellious. My generation thinks it sounds good. Quite a difference there.

Study the old testamen and see how they use music during the Golden Calf worship at the foot of Mt Sinai while Moses was up on the mountain to receive the commandments of God

Also during Daniel's time, what happen when some music are to be played? They were to bow down to worship the human made god.

If you were to study it carefully, there are lots of connection between religion and music.

[MariaS]

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[Tom Wetmore]

... I know what you're talking about, I just don't think it's factual. Musical beats can increase heart rate, tones can invoke certain emotions, but I've never seen a correlation between music preferences and spirituality. The most that music does to me is change my mood, and I don't mean into a satanic rebellious rage..

One of the things that This is Your Brain on Music discusses is studies of the effects of subsonic levels of sound on mood. (Subsonic sound is produced by a variety of musical instruments across a variety of musical genre.) The finding is that it serves as a mood intensifier. Consequently it effects different people very differently. A sad person exposed to subsonic sound will become more sad, a happy person more joyful, an angry person more angry. It intensifies the current mood being felt by the person.

Various musical forms do effect mood and have the power to effect ones emotional experience of the moment. But that becomes very much dependent on the state of mind or activity or subject matter being experienced at the same time. So if a person is engaged in a conversation with a good friend with "happy" music in the background the conversation, no matter the topic, is more likely to be upbeat and positive. If melancholy music is in the background, the conversation, no matter the subject, is more likely to get serious and pensive.

When music is combined with words, the musical tone will serve as a punctuation or help to convey the words and embed them into memory with much greater force and effect than if the words are read or heard without music. Music and memory are intimately linked. Completely nonverbal patients with even advanced Alzheimer's have been known to sing old familiar tunes perfectly well from memory. The emotional experience at the time of learning a song will stay in memory with that song.

[Guest]

I doubt that as I mature I'll understand, because we are from different generations; your generation saw rock music and such as new, edgy, rebellious. My generation thinks it sounds good. Quite a difference there.

Wrong Sivart! No real difference at all. BTW, how did you manage to come to a knowledge of "why" we did anything? For one thing rock and roll was not new. I'm not that old. And I listened to it because I thought it sounded good. No other reason. Not because I thought it was new, or edgy, or rebellious. That never even crossed my mind.

So your "Quite a difference" is only in your head, not reality. And when someone told me I would mature and grow out of my taste for music, I thought that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard.

So you see, the experience you have described for "your generation" is very much the same as it was for my generation. We liked it because we thought it sounded good.

There is nothing new under the sun.

[MariaS]

That was great!!! It makes me ashamed of what I posted. I too would like to see more of these. Also I would like to see me do one of these. I have my work cut out.

That little remote comes in handy huh?

Hi Honey,

ohhh you are on the way to make one like what Norman did. I am still very proud of you..not the music but the skill you have on that guitar.

[MariaS]

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[phkrause]

Wrong Sivart! No real difference at all. BTW, how did you manage to come to a knowledge of "why" we did anything? For one thing rock and roll was not new. I'm not that old. And I listened to it because I thought it sounded good. No other reason. Not because I thought it was new, or edgy, or rebellious. That never even crossed my mind.

So your "Quite a difference" is only in your head, not reality. And when someone told me I would mature and grow out of my taste for music, I thought that was the stupidest thing I had ever heard.

So you see, the experience you have described for "your generation" is very much the same as it was for my generation. We liked it because we thought it sounded good.

There is nothing new under the sun.

I agree with Richard, Sivart, and I'm a little older than he is.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

... I know what you're talking about, I just don't think it's factual. Musical beats can increase heart rate, tones can invoke certain emotions, but I've never seen a correlation between music preferences and spirituality. The most that music does to me is change my mood, and I don't mean into a satanic rebellious rage..

One of the things that This is Your Brain on Music discusses is studies of the effects of subsonic levels of sound on mood. (Subsonic sound is produced by a variety of musical instruments across a variety of musical genre.) The finding is that it serves as a mood intensifier. Consequently it effects different people very differently. A sad person exposed to subsonic sound will become more sad, a happy person more joyful, an angry person more angry. It intensifies the current mood being felt by the person.

Various musical forms do effect mood and have the power to effect ones emotional experience of the moment. But that becomes very much dependent on the state of mind or activity or subject matter being experienced at the same time. So if a person is engaged in a conversation with a good friend with "happy" music in the background the conversation, no matter the topic, is more likely to be upbeat and positive. If melancholy music is in the background, the conversation, no matter the subject, is more likely to get serious and pensive.

When music is combined with words, the musical tone will serve as a punctuation or help to convey the words and embed them into memory with much greater force and effect than if the words are read or heard without music. Music and memory are intimately linked. Completely nonverbal patients with even advanced Alzheimer's have been known to sing old familiar tunes perfectly well from memory. The emotional experience at the time of learning a song will stay in memory with that song.

Very interesting. I believe it. Do the studies show that a person's mood can be changed by the music? Does it indicate that music that conveys inappropriate emotions to a given situation is cause for listener cognitive dissonance?

[doug yowell]

[so you see, the experience you have described for "your generation" is very much the same as it was for my generation. We liked it because we thought it sounded good.

There is nothing new under the sun.

...and it's all because your momma don't dance and your daddy don't rock and roll!

[doug yowell]

. I agree with Richard, Sivart, and I'm a little older than he is.

Just a little??

[Guest]

[Tom Wetmore]

Very interesting. I believe it. Do the studies show that a person's mood can be changed by the music? Does it indicate that music that conveys inappropriate emotions to a given situation is cause for listener cognitive dissonance?

I don't recall a specific study, but I do think that there is a general implication that mood could be changed by music. However, if a person is in a strongly bad mood and is subjected to happy upbeat music in a style that they have a decided dislike for, it will not likely override their current mood. The dissonance would likely prove an irritation more likely to worsen the current mood. I would think that there likely has to be some degree of affinity to the music or at least a neutral disposition toward it, and some willingness toward a mood change.

As I recall, the book I have referred to does address cognitive dissonance in music. There is also the effect of musical dissonance, which can serve to heighten interest or to create tension.

The book is very readable even though written by a Phd in neuropsychology. He was also an accomplished musician and music producer before going back for his degree. So he is knowledgeable on all aspects of the topic. He utilized a range of musical genre in his research.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

. I agree with Richard, Sivart, and I'm a little older than he is.

Just a little??

Good one Doug. :)

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Colour is light and light is energy, too. Just sayin'.

Ya but it's not a language as well energy. :)

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Colour is light and light is energy, too. Just sayin'.

Ya but it's not a language as well energy.

Isn't music always referred to as the universal language? Words,like notes, have no communicative value until they are put together in a fashion that can be understood. Words that can be appropriate in a proper context can take on a whole different meaning when used out of context (like most profanity). Even the apostle notes that words must be given a certain sound if they are to be useful. If these principles of language are applied to the universal language then is it out of line to suggest that there are good and not so good forms of music? Or is everything (like my cousin)relative?

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Originally Posted By: Norman

Here's another one I did last night. I'm not so sure I like the effects. I think I like the pure sound of the acoustic better. What do you think?

Norman

Hi Norman,

I am very impressed. You are real good and I like the music.

Perhaps this music is sweeter to be played on classical guitar, however its still very soothing here

Hi Maria, a classical guitar is something that I am looking forward to getting one day, hopefully soon. Some songs can be very beautiful when played on the classical guitar. I have to save up because I do not want to get a cheap one that does not sound good. Praise God that you like the song.

Norman

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Quote:

Norman said- Ya but it's not a language as well energy. Isn't music always referred to as the universal language?

Quote:

Doug said - Words,like notes, have no communicative value until they are put together in a fashion that can be understood. Words that can be appropriate in a proper context can take on a whole different meaning when used out of context (like most profanity). Even the apostle notes that words must be given a certain sound if they are to be useful. If these principles of language are applied to the universal language then is it out of line to suggest that there are good and not so good forms of music? Or is everything (like my cousin)relative?

I don't see communicative value and the effects of ungodly music as the same thing.

I'll put it this way; for a child of God, is there ever a right time to use profanity while rebuking someone? The words themselves are unfit for the true child of God because they are ungodly and their effect is destructive and not redemptive. Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. . Therefore the communications(words) can be corrupt, no? And what about this counsel? Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: AND Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Norman

[Bravus]

You guys are drawing a pretty long rhetorical and inferential bow. The *words* of the song I posted were impeccable. The rest of the argument above relies on the analogy between music and language, and the associated claim that music is somehow different from a wide variety of other human communication systems.