Does God ever not keep His promises?

[Woody]

What do U think?

[Bravus]

All the time. There are ways to claim he always keeps his promises but they require massive (il)logical gymnastics.

[phkrause]

I think he does Bravus. It might not be the way we think. When God promised something that was conditional, like "if you do this than I will do this." Those are promises also. What promises do you believe he didn't keep?

[Woody]

Some say that ALL of God's promises have conditions to them even though they are not stated.

[Woody]

Some times ... the conditions are so extensive that God would never need to answer them and yet could proclaim that He has kept them.

Actually if one looks up all the excuses for not keeping His promises ... NO one would qualify for them.

So the question begs ... What GOOD R THEY?

[Bravus]

That there would be some of those gymnastics, pk! (I say that with respect and humor, not as an attack!)

How about this one, then? The whole of Psalm 91:

Psalm 91

1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

How many believers succumb to 'noisome pestilence' and violence, let alone dash their feet against stones?

It can all be argued away, but then, as Woody says, what's the point?

If I made promises to my kids but then never kept them and argued myself off on a technicality, would they consider me a trustworthy Father?

[Woody]

From our prophet:

"If we live according to His word, every precious promise He has given will be fulfilled to us. We are undeserving of His mercy, but as we give ourselves to Him, He receives us. He will work for and through those who follow Him. {MH 226.3}

But only as we live in obedience to His word can we claim the fulfillment of His promises. ... If we render to Him only a partial, halfhearted obedience, His promises will not be fulfilled to us.' Ellen White in MH 227

Personally I don't qualify for any of His promises.

[Woody]

If you are really into this subject - here are a few more:

"Precious promises are upon record on condition of our obedience to God's requirements." {RH, January 28, 1875 par. 16}

"The promise of God to us is on condition of obedience, compliance with all His requirements"..... CH 377

All the promises of God are on condition of obedience to Him. {LYL 83.1}

There is a class who say, "I believe, I believe," and lay claim to all the promises which are given on condition of obedience; but they do not the works of Christ. God is not honored by any such faith. It is spurious. {OHC 119.4}

"These promises of God to his people were on condition of their obedience. If they would serve the Lord fully, he would do great things for them. After Moses had received the judgments from the Lord, and had written them for the people, also the promises, on condition of obedience, the Lord said unto him, "Come up unto the Lord ..." {1SP 239.2}

"God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had been enlightened, even if he had, in their days of faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings were always upon condition of obedience upon their part." {RH, January 14, 1873 par. 10}

"God chose Israel as his people, and gave them gracious promises on condition of obedience. He faithfully performed his promises." {ST, October 15, 1896 par. 1}

"It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional." {Ev 695.1}

"God's promises are conditional." {PCP 25.5}

[Bravus]

Interestingly, I don't see that get-out clause in Psalm 91 - or in most of the other Biblical promises either.

[Woody]

Not mine but I have no idea where I got this:

The Bible records several examples of prayers that seemingly were unanswered.

David prayed earnestly for the healing of his sick son. “He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground” (2 Samuel 12:16). But his son died anyway.

Jesus prayed to be spared a violent death on the cross. “’My Father,’” He pleaded, “ ‘ if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me’ “ (Matthew 26:39). But shortly after that He was arrested, tried, and executed.

Three times Paul prayed for relief from a “thorn in my flesh,” but God’s only answer was, “ ’My grace is sufficient for you’” (2 Corinthians 12:7,8). The thorn in his flesh remained.

Unanswered prayer is a perplexing spiritual issue, especially in light of several bold biblical promises for answered prayer. Speaking through the psalmist, God said, “ ‘He will call upon me, and I will answer him’ “ (Psalm 91:15). And Jesus stated simply, “ ‘Ask and it will be given to you’” (Luke 11:9).

Unanswered prayer cerates spiritual distress and confusion. C.S. Lewis expressed this concern when he wrote, “Every war, every famine, every plague, almost every death-bed, is the monument to a petition that was not granted.”

[Gail]

If the situation was not resolved the way you wanted, is it still an unanswered prayer?

[Woody]

If the situation was not resolved the way you wanted, is it still an unanswered prayer?

I don't know ... but since I don't obey as I should ... I can't expect them to be answered anyways so why ask?

[Overaged]

What do U think?

Yes; God always keeps His promises; if a given promise applies to us at a given time. That's about as "complicated as I prefer to make the subject. Sometimes, when we pray to God and "claim" a promise; God will give us an answer that we don't like - like yes, no, maybe, or wait.

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: Gail

If the situation was not resolved the way you wanted, is it still an unanswered prayer?

I don't know ... but since I don't obey as I should ... I can't expect them to be answered anyways so why ask?

Why aren't you obeying as you should? Don't you want to?

[Woody]

Quote:

Sometimes, when we pray to God and "claim" a promise; God will give us an answer that we don't like - like yes, no, maybe, or wait.

It has already been shown that unless you keep all of His commands perfectly ... that He will not answer your prayers and keep His promises. So, unless you do that ... how can you claim to get ANY kind of answer whether it be yes no or wait?

[Woody]

Quote:

Why aren't you obeying as you should? Don't you want to?

Oh YES Gail. I certainly do. I pray to the only one who can give me the strength to do so. But so far He has not answered my prayers. It's a vicious circle. I can't DO it in my OWN power. But He will not do it unless I keep His commands. So, U tell ME WHY He won't give me the power to obey?

I place the blame on Him if you ask me.

Right square on HIS lap.

[Gail]

I don't think the key is in strength. It's a combination of His life, His mind, His grace. I don't know if there is a trick to it...

Remember, stop looking at YOU and keep your eyes on HIM. Never mind what your performance is. If you are discouraged with it, take it to Jesus and surrender it. I don't know of any other way.

[Gail]

And instead of glumming yourself out, see if praising Him doesn't help give you a lift.

If all else fails, I'll send over a group hug:

[Woody]

And instead of glumming yourself out, see if praising Him doesn't help give you a lift.

If all else fails, I'll send over a group hug:

Good Suggestion Gail.

And thanks for the hug. I always appreciate your hugs.

[Overaged]

It has already been shown that unless you keep all of His commands perfectly ... that He will not answer your prayers and keep His promises. So, unless you do that ... how can you claim to get ANY kind of answer whether it be yes no or wait?

Well; it's simple. I disagree that "it has been shown." It has not been shown; only claimed. it is not even close to being "shown."

[Gerr]

Interestingly, I don't see that get-out clause in Psalm 91 - or in most of the other Biblical promises either.

So Bravus, how can/do you worship and pledge allegiance to a God who cannot/would not keep His promises?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Interestingly, I don't see that get-out clause in Psalm 91 - or in most of the other Biblical promises either.

So Bravus, how can/do you worship and pledge allegiance to a God who cannot/would not keep His promises?

Gerry. Worship is not for getting. Worship is for giving. It's all about Him not us. We go to church to honor our God. We don't have a relationship with God just to GET but to GIVE. He has already given. (He has give us life) It's our turn to do the giving.

[Gerr]

So Bravus, how can/do you worship and pledge allegiance to a God who cannot/would not keep His promises?

Gerry. Worship is not for getting. Worship is for giving. It's all about Him not us. We go to church to honor our God. We don't have a relationship with God just to GET but to GIVE. He has already given. (He has give us life) It's our turn to do the giving.

Woody, read the question again.

[Woody]

I did

[Igakusei]

It seems like some of you guys have a double standard here.

When God doesn't appear to keep his promises, it's easily explained because "we're not living up to his full potential yet."

When God does appear to keep his promises, it's easily explained because "God keeps his promises."

I mean, how many Christian babies died in the aftermath of Katrina? Were their parents not living up to God's standards and therefore their bread and water wasn't assured?

But if you lost a paycheck and couldn't figure out how you were going to get groceries, but then your employer wrote you a new one or gave you an advance on the next... wouldn't you be tempted to claim that God was providing for your bread and water, even though you readily admit that you aren't perfect yet?