Does God ever not keep His promises?

[LifeHiscost]

#4389825 - Today at 01:4

Your attitude, Shane, reveals a walk with the Lord long before you were aware that He was walking by your side. It is truly miraculous (born from above) that you gravitated toward a loving Creator when your early life had such abusive circumstances from the closest male role model. I will never understand why some who have had so little to grasp re: God's attributes of love, when their earliest memories are so negative, other than the wondrous love of Divine intervention.

May God continue to bless you!

[phkrause]

This is the nub of the whole matter. Has any believer ever starved to death? I would imagine that it's close to certain that many have.

That leaves us with two options: (1) in every case it was the beliver's fault for not believing hard enough. Not the fault of the warlords who caused the famine, for example. That, to me, is a morally repugnant view that does not accord with (my limited understanding of) reality: there must have been truly faithful believers who starved to death.

Or (2) sometimes God does not keep his promises. Perhaps he is prevented by the rules of engagement of the Great Controversy, perhaps there is more going on that we can't see, whatever it is.

I can understand and honour those who say 'From our limited human perspective, it sometimes seems as though God does not keep his promises, but from a divine, universal perspective he does and I have faith enough to wait to understand that in Heaven'.

I can agree and accept the above statements Bravus, but #2 is the only one I have a bit of a problem with. Not sure how much I buy into that one.

[Bravus]

Not even with the following paragraph in that post included? The one that notes the possibility that apparent failures to keep his promises are apparent rather than real?

The alternative seems to me to be that no believer anywhere has ever starved to death (for example), since we are promised that our bread and water will be sure. Is that what you want to maintain?

[phkrause]

Yes there are just as many on the opposite side. But that still doesn't get us any where. People will gravitate to which ever position they believe. And there is plenty of evidence on both sides.

Either side you might be on ... you still have to do a lot of ignoring many quotes.

I would not expect they are from EGW or more importantly from the Bible. The only negatives of the many promises, Woody, would be the way we apply them.

Actually what are we looking for? A easy life if we ask and receive all of his promises? Didn't Jesus who lived on this earth also ask for said promises? I believe one of the ones in my post refers to them and tells us that Jesus tells us that he didn't come to make life easier for those that follow him. He actually promises that if we follow him life will be hard! Did he not? He didn't have it easy either did he? So I would say right as of this moment we have it easy. That is those of us that live in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, etc. Many are right now living in countries that have or are being treating cruelly for there believe in Jesus.

[Overaged]

Not even with the following paragraph in that post included? The one that notes the possibility that apparent failures to keep his promises are apparent rather than real?

The alternative seems to me to be that no believer anywhere has ever starved to death (for example), since we are promised that our bread and water will be sure. Is that what you want to maintain?

[Gerr]

I think God is far more concerned with our heavenly life than our earthly life.

But if He is not just as concerned about the LITTLE things, how then can we have confidence that He is concerned at all about the BIG things?

[Gerr]

Pastor Mike Tucker had a sermon about this not too long ago. He said he had to repent for his concept of God. The only unconditional promise God gives us (as faithful believers) is salvation. If we serve God so that He will give us something, that is selfish service which itself is SIN. We are to serve God because we love Him. That's it. If He blesses us we praise Him. If He doesn't bless us, we still praise Him. It is not about us. It is about Him.

That doesn't make sense. Unconditional for the thing the REALLY matters, and conditional for the LITTLE or INCONSEQUENTIAL things? Incredible!!!

ESV | Ro 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

[Woody]

Quote:

"Prayer does not change our Heavenly Father, but prayer does change our relations to him." RH May 25, 1876 Sparta Camp-Meeting. By Mrs. E. G. White.

This is something I believe prayer is for. A relationship with Him. Not asking for this and getting that. Why bother Him - when we don't qualify. He is more concerned with our relationship with Him than what we have or don't have on this earth.

He is going to do what He is going to do. We can't change that. So, why pester Him with our earthly glory when He want's us to sacrifice and be concerned with Heavenly Glory?

[Woody]

We are also told to answer our own prayers. We should not just try to rely on God.

Quote:

"As you work to answer your own prayers, you will find that God will reveal Himself unto you." Manuscript 85, Aug. 30, 1901

"We answer our own prayers by using the remedies within our reach." EGW April 22, 1884 Effectual Prayer.

"We can speak to him of our real wants; and our earnest petitions will show that we realize our needs, and will do what we can to answer our own prayers." GW92 428

[Gail]

Great discussion!

[Gail]

I am beginning to look at prayer as an extension of my everyday life. I do pray about things big and small, and about things I learn in God's word (every praying God's word itself at times), as well as asking questions and waiting on the Lord. For me it's kind of a sharing of life. And He does share back, which is totally cool. :)

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Allah and Yahweh are the same deity

_________________________

If you have read the Qu'ran , you will notice directly opposing statements about Jesus and Who He is, what His mission is, and what the followers of Allah are commanded to do to unbelievers, else you would not be able to come to that conclusion. But that's

a topic for another thread.

God blesses!

LHC well I think Dwight Nelson disagrees. You can hear him in person regarding this in a 4 min. clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU6-rKqfigM&feature=related

[Woody]

Quote:

"The promise of God to us is on condition of obedience, compliance with all His requirements"..... CH 377

Here is why His promise of an answer to prayers means little. I am not in full compliance. Thus, my prayers will not be answered. That is the bottom line.

[Gerr]

Quote:

"Prayer does not change our Heavenly Father, but prayer does change our relations to him." RH May 25, 1876 Sparta Camp-Meeting. By Mrs. E. G. White.

This is something I believe prayer is for. A relationship with Him. Not asking for this and getting that. Why bother Him - when we don't qualify. He is more concerned with our relationship with Him than what we have or don't have on this earth.

Was God just joking then when He gave His promises? knowing that He doesn't/didn't have to keep them? How can you have a relationship with someone who makes promises but has no intention to keep any of them?

[Woody]

Quote:

Was God just joking then when He gave His promises? knowing that He doesn't/didn't have to keep them? How can you have a relationship with someone who makes promises but has no intention to keep any of them?

I have no idea where you get the idea that God does not keep his promises. Blows my mind. What book are you reading? God will keep ALL of His promises if you meet the qualifications for them. He promises to.

[phkrause]

Quote:

"Prayer does not change our Heavenly Father, but prayer does change our relations to him." RH May 25, 1876 Sparta Camp-Meeting. By Mrs. E. G. White.

This is something I believe prayer is for. A relationship with Him. Not asking for this and getting that. Why bother Him - when we don't qualify. He is more concerned with our relationship with Him than what we have or don't have on this earth.

He is going to do what He is going to do. We can't change that. So, why pester Him with our earthly glory when He want's us to sacrifice and be concerned with Heavenly Glory?

I would agree with that. The Jews never ask for anything when praying to God. They mostly praise him for the things he does. I thought that was very interesting. As Christian we should be at the for front praising him for everything.

[phkrause]

We are also told to answer our own prayers. We should not just try to rely on God.

Quote:

"As you work to answer your own prayers, you will find that God will reveal Himself unto you." Manuscript 85, Aug. 30, 1901

"We answer our own prayers by using the remedies within our reach." EGW April 22, 1884 Effectual Prayer.

"We can speak to him of our real wants; and our earnest petitions will show that we realize our needs, and will do what we can to answer our own prayers." GW92 428

That's very interesting and something that I totaling can accept, and it makes a lot of sense.

[Woody]

Therefore - God doesn't answer ALL prayers. Sometimes WE answer our OWN prayers.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Was God just joking then when He gave His promises? knowing that He doesn't/didn't have to keep them? How can you have a relationship with someone who makes promises but has no intention to keep any of them?

I have no idea where you get the idea that God does not keep his promises. Blows my mind. What book are you reading? God will keep ALL of His promises if you meet the qualifications for them. He promises to.

If perfect obedience is the condition for receiving the promised blessing, then WHO can claim ANY of the promises? Since God knows that NO ONE can do that, then what's the point of promising anything unless it's some kind of a joke?

[phkrause]

If perfect obedience is the condition for receiving the promised blessing, then WHO can claim ANY of the promises? Since God knows that NO ONE can do that, then what's the point of promising anything unless it's some kind of a joke?

Makes sense to me.

[Sonny]

If perfect obedience is the condition for receiving the promised blessing, then WHO can claim ANY of the promises? Since God knows that NO ONE can do that, then what's the point of promising anything unless it's some kind of a joke?

Look at what it took to open Job's eyes.....Hence I think God uses these promises to open our eyes to the impossibility of gaining heaven through our righteousness. Then, when our spiritual pride is slammed into the dust of the ground, God can bless us.

When I was self-righteous & legalistic trouble came my way. When my pride was placed in the dust then God began to bless me. That's the function of the law - to make sin exceedingly sinful so our eyes are directed to Christ and His agape love & righteousness!

Ellen White:

None but God can subdue the pride of man’s heart. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot regenerate ourselves. In the heavenly courts there will be no song sung. To me that loved myself, and washed myself, redeemed myself, unto me be glory and honor, blessing and praise. But this is the key-note of the song that is sung by many here in this world. They do not know what it means to be meek and lowly in heart; and they do not mean to know this, if they can avoid it. The whole gospel is comprised in learning Christ, his meekness and lowliness.

What is justification by faith? It is the work of God [how?] in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. When they begin to praise and exalt God all the day long, then by beholding they are becoming changed into the same image. What is regeneration?—It is revealing to man what is his own real nature, that in himself he is worthless. [special Testimonies for Ministers and Workers—No. 9, Page 62]

[Woody]

Quote:

If perfect obedience is the condition for receiving the promised blessing, then WHO can claim ANY of the promises? Since God knows that NO ONE can do that, then what's the point of promising anything unless it's some kind of a joke?

Then your beef is with our prophet and not me for that is exactly what she says. We must strive for perfection Gerry. If we don't get it then our prayers will not be answered.

[Overaged]

quote=Woody]I think God is far more concerned with our heavenly life than our earthly life. /quote]

But if He is not just as concerned about the LITTLE things, how then can we have confidence that He is concerned at all about the BIG things?

Heaven begins on earth, it's in the Bible.

[Overaged]

Then your beef is with our prophet and not me for that is exactly what she says. We must strive for perfection Gerry. If we don't get it then our prayers will not be answered.

You got them special glasses on again Woody; but we love ya anyway!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Then your beef is with our prophet and not me for that is exactly what she says. We must strive for perfection Gerry. If we don't get it then our prayers will not be answered.

You got them special glasses on again Woody; but we love ya anyway!

Well someone needs to stand up for our prophet.

It would seem I am elected.