Does God ever not keep His promises?

[Overaged]

Nice: now, rather than protect the poster being abused, the moderator chooses to pile on. Have fun, I'm out of this thread. If I felt I would get fair treatment I'd be happy to respond on substance.

You are nowhere close to being "abused" here my friend, but you are definitely being challenged.

[Overaged]

Sorry, should have been clearer. We're cool, Shane, I read and understood your earlier posts.

Read back over the past half-dozen or so of Overaged posts and my responses, and I think any fair-minded person will see me bending over backward to avoid giving offense and him bending over backward to take offense anyway.

Bravus; this is exactly what I am talking about. If I were to respond to this the way I am tempted to; you would definitely have a point. I am finished with this conversation as you don't seem to be able to accept the fact that this is a discussion forum and that people also have a right to challenge your beliefs. Your strenuous efforts to denounce anyone who challenges you more than once or twice leaves us with only the option to just shut up and listen to whatever you want to dish out. I am not the slightest bit "offended" and you have no right to say I am unless you ask me and I say "yes I am." And believe me; i will say so if I am. I am challenging your ideas because I think they need to be. But you are right. This topic has become very boring. Dare I say what else I think? ah, no. Given your last few posts. No. I am gone. have fun "testing."

[Bravus]

I have not ever said anyone else is not entitled to their beliefs, or to challenge my beliefs.

*All* I have done is to state my own beliefs.

Everything else is in your own head.

Spend a little time reflecting (as will I).

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Shane insinuated that the sort of person who would ask the questions I have been asking is on the side of Satan.

I don't find that offensive. I am quick to admit that I have found myself on the side of Satan way too many times. Whenever anyone admits they are a sinner, that is what they are admitting to. Who on this forum is going to say they are not a sinner? When we sin it is because we are led by the very same spirit that led the rebellion in heaven against Christ.

Read the book of Job. Read it several times if necessary and then tell me it is OK to make accusations against God.

[Gerr]

Then God is/was safe in promising anything & everything, knowing that He doesn't have to keep ANY of them because He knows/knew that NO ONE could keep the law perfectly, and that His promises are just carrots on a stick.

Here's the thing...if you are living Christ's life then you won't ask selfishly, right? You won't ask for riches...for material things for yourself, etc.

Is it selfish to ask for bread? Look at the Lord's prayer.

And I don't recall ever praying for riches. But I have in the past what the wise man had said, don't give me poverty and be tempted to steal & thus profane your name, or riches and then be tempted to forget Him.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I don't find that offensive. I am quick to admit that I have found myself on the side of Satan way too many times.

You may not find it offensive, but most people do. For obvious reasons.

[LifeHiscost]

#438771 - Today at 04:36

I'm just wondering what all this has to do Re: Does God ever not keep His promises?

God blesses!

[SivartM]

Pride. I know. I have been there too. Someone steps on my pride and it offends me.

[LifeHiscost]

Allah and Yahweh are the same deity

_________________________

If you have read the Qu'ran , you will notice directly opposing statements about Jesus and Who He is, what His mission is, and what the followers of Allah are commanded to do to unbelievers, else you would not be able to come to that conclusion. But that's

a topic for another thread.

God blesses!

[phkrause]

GP, here are some interesting comments that EGW makes about God's promises

1-The course of God’s people should be upward and onward to victory. A greater than Joshua is leading on the armies of Israel. One is in our midst, even the Captain of our salvation, who has said for our encouragement, “Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” 111“Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” He will lead us on to certain victory. What God promises, He is able at any time to perform. And the work He gives His people to do, He is able to accomplish by them.—Testimonies for the Church 2:122. {ChS 110.4}

2-Without the Spirit of God a knowledge of His word is of no avail. The theory of truth, unaccompanied by the Holy Spirit, cannot quicken the soul or sanctify the heart. One may be familiar with the commands and promises of the Bible; but unless the Spirit of God sets the truth home, the character will not be transformed. Without the enlightenment of the Spirit, men will not be able to distinguish truth from error, and they will fall under the masterful temptations of Satan.. {COL 408.3}

3-To the consecrated worker there is wonderful consolation in the knowledge that even Christ during His life on earth sought His Father daily for fresh supplies of needed grace; and from this communion with God He went forth to strengthen and bless others. Behold the Son of God bowed in prayer to His Father! Though He is the Son of God, He strengthens His faith by prayer, and by communion with heaven gathers to Himself power to resist evil and to minister to the needs of men. As the Elder Brother of our race He knows the necessities of those who, compassed with infirmity and living in a world of sin and temptation, still desire to serve Him. He knows that the messengers whom He sees fit to send are weak, erring men; but to all who give themselves wholly to His service He promises divine aid. His own example is an assurance that earnest, persevering supplication to God in faith—faith that leads to entire dependence upon God, and unreserved consecration to His work—will avail to bring to men the Holy Spirit’s aid in the battle against sin. {AA 56.1}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 56.2 (EGW)

Every worker who follows the example of Christ will be prepared to receive and use the power that God has promised to His church for the ripening of earth’s harvest. Morning by morning, as the heralds of the gospel kneel before the Lord and renew their vows of consecration to Him, He will grant them the presence of His Spirit, with its reviving, sanctifying power. As they go forth to the day’s duties, they have the assurance that the unseen agency of the Holy Spirit enables them to be “laborers together with God.” {AA 56.2}

4-God has made the proclamation of the gospel dependent upon the labors and the gifts of His people. Voluntary offerings and the tithe constitute the revenue of the Lord’s work. Of the means entrusted to man, God claims a certain portion,—the tenth. He leaves all free to say whether or not they will give more than this. But when the heart is stirred by the influence of the Holy Spirit, and a vow is made to give a certain amount, the one who vows has no longer any right to the consecrated portion. Promises of this kind made to men would be looked upon as binding; are those not more binding that are made to God? Are promises tried in the court of conscience less binding than written agreements of men? {AA 74.2}

5-When divine light is shining into the heart with unusual clearness and power, habitual selfishness relaxes its grasp and there is a disposition to give to the cause of God. But none need think that they will be allowed to fulfill the promises then made, without a protest on the part of Satan. He is not pleased to see the Redeemer’s kingdom on earth built up. He suggests that the pledge made was too much, 75that it may cripple them in their efforts to acquire property or gratify the desires of their families. {AA 74.3}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 75.1 (EGW)

It is God who blesses men with property, and He does this that they may be able to give toward the advancement of His cause. He sends the sunshine and the rain. He causes vegetation to flourish. He gives health and the ability to acquire means. All our blessings come from His bountiful hand. In turn, He would have men and women show their gratitude by returning Him a portion in tithes and offerings—in thank offerings, in freewill offerings, in trespass offerings. Should means flow into the treasury in accordance with this divinely appointed plan,—a tenth of all the increase, and liberal offerings,—there would be an abundance for the advancement of the Lord’s work. {AA 75.1}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 75.2 (EGW)

But the hearts of men become hardened through selfishness, and, like Ananias and Sapphira, they are tempted to withhold part of the price, while pretending to fulfill God’s requirements. Many spend money lavishly in self-gratification. Men and women consult their pleasure and gratify their taste, while they bring to God, almost unwillingly, a stinted offering. They forget that God will one day demand a strict account of how His goods have been used, and that He will no more accept the pittance they hand into the treasury than He accepted the offering of Ananias and Sapphira. {AA 75.2}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 75.3 (EGW)

From the stern punishment meted out to those perjurers, God would have us learn also how deep is His hatred and contempt for all hypocrisy and deception. In pretending 76that they had given all, Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and, as a result, they lost this life and the life that is to come. The same God who punished them, today condemns all falsehood. Lying lips are an abomination to Him. He declares that into the Holy City “there shall in no wise enter ... anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie.” Revelation 21:27. Let truth telling be held with no loose hand or uncertain grasp. Let it become a part of the life. Playing fast and loose with truth, and dissembling to suit one’s own selfish plans, means shipwreck of faith. “Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth.” Ephesians 6:14. He who utters untruths sells his soul in a cheap market. His falsehoods may seem to serve in emergencies; he may thus seem to make business advancement that he could not gain by fair dealing; but he finally reaches the place where he can trust no one. Himself a falsifier, he has no confidence in the word of others. {AA 75.3}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 76.1 (EGW)

In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, the sin of fraud against God was speedily punished. The same sin was often repeated in the after history of the church and is committed by many in our time. But though it may not be attended by the visible manifestation of God’s displeasure, it is no less heinous in His sight now than in the apostles’ time. The warning has been given; God has clearly manifested His abhorrence of this sin; and all who give themselves up to hypocrisy and covetousness may be sure that they are destroying their own souls. {AA 76.1}

6-God has called His people to glory and virtue, and these will be manifest in the lives of all who are truly connected with Him. Having become partakers of the heavenly gift, they are to go on unto perfection, being “kept by the power of God through faith.” 1 Peter 1:5. It is the glory of God to give His virtue to His children. He desires to see men and women reaching the highest standard; and when by faith they lay hold of the power of Christ, when they plead His unfailing promises, and claim them as their own, when with an importunity that will not be denied they seek for the power of the Holy Spirit, they will be made complete in Him. {AA 530.2}

7-“And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” The conditions of obtaining mercy from God are simple and reasonable. The Lord does not require us to do some grievous thing in order to gain forgiveness. We need not make long and wearisome pilgrimages, or perform painful penances, to commend our souls to the God of heaven or to expiate our transgression. He that “confesseth and forsaketh” his sin “shall have mercy.” Proverbs 28:13. {AA 552.1}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 552.2 (EGW)

In the courts above, Christ is pleading for His church—pleading for those for whom He has paid the redemption price of His blood. Centuries, ages, can never lessen the efficacy of His atoning sacrifice. Neither life nor death, height nor depth, can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus; not because we hold Him so firmly, but because He holds us so fast. If our salvation depended on our own efforts, we could not be saved; but it depends on the One who is behind all the promises. Our grasp on Him may seem feeble, but His love is that of an elder brother; so long as we maintain our union with Him, no one can pluck us out of His hand. {AA 552.2}

8-There are those who profess holiness, who declare that they are wholly the Lord’s, who claim a right to the promises of God, while refusing to render obedience to His commandments. These transgressors of the law claim everything that is promised to the children of God; but this is presumption on their part, for John tells us that true love for God will be revealed in obedience to all His commandments. It is not enough to believe the theory of truth, to make a profession of faith in Christ, to believe that Jesus is no impostor, and that the religion of the Bible is no cunningly devised fable. “He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments,” John wrote, “is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.” “He that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him.” 1 John 2:4, 5; 3:24. {AA 562.3}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 563.1 (EGW)

John did not teach that salvation was to be earned by obedience; but that obedience was the fruit of faith and love. “Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins,” he said, “and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.” 1 John 3:5, 6. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in the heart, our feelings, our thoughts, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God. The sanctified heart is in harmony with the precepts of God’s law. {AA 563.1}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 563.2 (EGW)

There are many who, though striving to obey God’s commandments, have little peace or joy. This lack in their experience is the result of a failure to exercise faith. They walk as it were in a salt land, a parched wilderness. They claim little, when they might claim much; for there is no 564limit to the promises of God. Such ones do not correctly represent the sanctification that comes through obedience to the truth. The Lord would have all His sons and daughters happy, peaceful, and obedient. Through the exercise of faith the believer comes into possession of these blessings. Through faith, every deficiency of character may be supplied, every defilement cleansed, every fault corrected, every excellence developed. {AA 563.2}

The Acts of the Apostles, p. 564.1 (EGW)

Prayer is heaven’s ordained means of success in the conflict with sin and the development of Christian character. The divine influences that come in answer to the prayer of faith will accomplish in the soul of the suppliant all for which he pleads. For the pardon of sin, for the Holy Spirit, for a Christlike temper, for wisdom and strength to do His work, for any gift He has promised, we may ask; and the promise is, “Ye shall receive.” {AA 564.1}

There are many, many more.

[Gail]

Wow- Thanks, phk! Those are all very encouraging and refreshing words!

I especially like #2:

Quote:

2-Without the Spirit of God a knowledge of His word is of no avail. The theory of truth, unaccompanied by the Holy Spirit, cannot quicken the soul or sanctify the heart. One may be familiar with the commands and promises of the Bible; but unless the Spirit of God sets the truth home, the character will not be transformed. Without the enlightenment of the Spirit, men will not be able to distinguish truth from error, and they will fall under the masterful temptations of Satan.. {COL 408.3}

I wonder if being led by the Spirit or filled by the Spirit has any bearing on whether one can recognize an answer to prayer, just as He makes a difference with one's understanding of spiritual themes found in Scripture.

It's just a thought- I'm not saying that anyone has the Spirit any more than another. We can read the Bible numerous times and find fresh and new truths with every read.

[Sonny]

Is it selfish to ask for bread?

1 Tim 6:7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. 9 But those who want to be rich fall into temptation, a trap, and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Is it selfish to ask for bread?

1 Tim 6:7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. 9 But those who want to be rich fall into temptation, a trap, and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.

But what about our daily bread, in the Lord's prayer?

[Bravus]

This is the nub of the whole matter. Has any believer ever starved to death? I would imagine that it's close to certain that many have.

That leaves us with two options: (1) in every case it was the beliver's fault for not believing hard enough. Not the fault of the warlords who caused the famine, for example. That, to me, is a morally repugnant view that does not accord with (my limited understanding of) reality: there must have been truly faithful believers who starved to death.

Or (2) sometimes God does not keep his promises. Perhaps he is prevented by the rules of engagement of the Great Controversy, perhaps there is more going on that we can't see, whatever it is.

I can understand and honour those who say 'From our limited human perspective, it sometimes seems as though God does not keep his promises, but from a divine, universal perspective he does and I have faith enough to wait to understand that in Heaven'.

[Gail]

That may be the wisdom right there, Bravus.

Are we any further ahead at the end of the conversation than at the beginning?

[Woody]

Quote:

There are many, many more.

Yes there are just as many on the opposite side. But that still doesn't get us any where. People will gravitate to which ever position they believe. And there is plenty of evidence on both sides.

Either side you might be on ... you still have to do a lot of ignoring many quotes.

[Woody]

This is the nub of the whole matter. Has any believer ever starved to death? I would imagine that it's close to certain that many have.

That leaves us with two options: (1) in every case it was the beliver's fault for not believing hard enough. Not the fault of the warlords who caused the famine, for example. That, to me, is a morally repugnant view that does not accord with (my limited understanding of) reality: there must have been truly faithful believers who starved to death.

Or (2) sometimes God does not keep his promises. Perhaps he is prevented by the rules of engagement of the Great Controversy, perhaps there is more going on that we can't see, whatever it is.

I can understand and honour those who say 'From our limited human perspective, it sometimes seems as though God does not keep his promises, but from a divine, universal perspective he does and I have faith enough to wait to understand that in Heaven'.

Excellent way to summerize this topic.

[Sonny]

But what about our daily bread, in the Lord's prayer?

Clearly to have food [bread] and clothing is a necessity, true?

[phkrause]

I wonder if being led by the Spirit or filled by the Spirit has any bearing on whether one can recognize an answer to prayer, just as He makes a difference with one's understanding of spiritual themes found in Scripture.

It's just a thought- I'm not saying that anyone has the Spirit any more than another. We can read the Bible numerous times and find fresh and new truths with every read.

Good thought though, I think when we get into saying who has the Spirit and who doesn't, we're than in the realm of Judging. We as humans can only observe the outward appearance, but God see's the heart.

[Woody]

I think God is far more concerned with our heavenly life than our earthly life.

[phkrause]

I think God is far more concerned with our heavenly life than our earthly life.

We don't have a heavenly life as of yet. We live here on earth at the moment. I do agree that he wants all of us to live with him for eternity though.

[Dr. Shane]

I imagine that you were taught that the Bible was God's word, and (correct me if I'm wrong) perhaps never seriously exposed to other religious viewpoints until you left the church.

[Dr. Shane]

That leaves us with two options: (1) in every case it was the beliver's fault for not believing hard enough...

Or (2) sometimes God does not keep his promises. Perhaps he is prevented by the rules of engagement of the Great Controversy...

The book of Job certainly tells us that the "rules of engagement of the Great Controversy" do in fact come into play. Why was John the Baptist left to die while Christ Himself was actually within walking distance from him?

Most all of these "Bible promises" are written in the Bible by authors that lived after Job. I simply have to read these promises in light of what I learn in the book of Job. I cannot explain why the Bible authors recorded these promises without placing them in the context of the Great Controversy revealed in Job but as a Bible student, I have to read them in that context.

So I cannot accuse God of not keeping His promises. When I get to heaven, I can ask Him, "God what was going on at this time in my life when You didn't answer my prayer the way I wanted?" and I trust that He will be able to explain it to me in a way that will reveal His character of love.

[Overaged]

You didn't spell summerize right Woody!

[Overaged]

Or (2) sometimes God does not keep his promises. Perhaps he is prevented by the rules of engagement of the Great Controversy, perhaps there is more going on that we can't see, whatever it is.

I can understand and honour those who say 'From our limited human perspective, it sometimes seems as though God does not keep his promises, but from a divine, universal perspective he does and I have faith enough to wait to understand that in Heaven'.

Your point about the great controversy is one that i think may apply quite well here. What I really like about the part of your post I quoted was where you said: "I have enough faith to wait to understand;" now that means something, and it was good to read that!

There is a promise in the Bible about waiting...if you are interested; I will post it.