End of the World

[Bravus]

Will try, but if I'm raptured I'll have to seek out a web cafe in heaven first...

[phkrause]

Will try, but if I'm raptured I'll have to seek out a web cafe in heaven first...

[BobRyan]

Camping is helping raise the subject of "The Judgment" to everyday conversation level. Had another chance to discuss this with my non-SDA neighbor today.

Praise God for every opportunity we can get.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gail]

Someone here was claiming that the end of the world, or some other major event, would happen in April. Haven't heard much from them since then...

There are quite a lot of people claiming that the Rapture will be on May 21, which is a bit over a week away.

Day after tomorrow... We are expecting a baby to be born tomorrow, but he might hit the 21st. What then? Will he be born- and then be gone?

[Doug]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Someone here was claiming that the end of the world, or some other major event, would happen in April. Haven't heard much from them since then...

There are quite a lot of people claiming that the Rapture will be on May 21, which is a bit over a week away.

Day after tomorrow... We are expecting a baby to be born tomorrow, but he might hit the 21st. What then? Will he be born- and then be gone?

I wonder if it will be raptured straight out of the womb?

[phkrause]

I wonder if it will be raptured straight out of the womb?

[Gail]

I wonder if it will be raptured straight out of the womb?

Yes and if the mother doesn't get to go too, we will all be most disappointed!

[teresaq]

Camping is helping raise the subject of "The Judgment" to everyday conversation level. Had another chance to discuss this with my non-SDA neighbor today.

Praise God for every opportunity we can get.

in Christ,

Bob

Yes, I know have an opportunity to talk with some neighbors because of it, so everyone's prayers would be most appreciated. I am so deficient in myself to do justice for God-I need Him to speak through me.

[BobRyan]

Here is an SDA link that goes hand-in-glove with the Harold-Camping open door on the subject of judgment day.

http://www.aftermay21.com/home/judgment-day-facts-page-2.aspx

In Christ,

Bob

[Amelia]

They are spending alot of money on this. Yesterday I saw several billboards that proclaimed "Only 3 more days". and today I saw one of those new digital billboards with "only 2 more days".

[Flyboy]

Gotta say this for these people. Sitting here on my couch I asked myself if I'd have the guts to go out and proclaim such a thing as they are doing. These people TRULY and deeply believe in the Bible. Sure, they are reading it wrong, but they are so committed to what they believe. That is admirable. Let's hope that after May 21 someone can find them and lead them in the right direction. People with energy and enthusiasm for what they believe.... I bet every church pastor in the world wishes for a few more of these kinds of people.

[BobRyan]

Harold Camping makes his case for Judgment Day 2011 05 21

1. http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html

2. TV commercial - http://www.familyradio.com/may21/

3. PDF; http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/judgment/judgement.pdf

CNN scoffs at the judgment day message

1. CNN - reports on this - http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/18/tick-tock-goes-the-doomsday-clock/?hpt=C2

2. CNN – assoc this with Lunatic Fringe. Calls it cult: Duped: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/18/tick-tock-goes-the-doomsday-clock/?hpt=C2

Amazing Facts answer -

http://www.aftermay21.com/home/judgment-day-facts-page-2.aspx

Here is another example of an SDA Pastor with the right idea about sharing the Gospel through the open door provided by the sudden up-tick in interest in Judgment day this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEIuW-nV590

===================my take

Warning for SDAs – be very careful how you lampoon Camping. The entire William Miller 1844 message is the subtext that Satan is trying to drag through the mud here. Do not get caught up in the frenzy and carelessly promote positions that will only come back to bite you.

This is a great opportunity to use the open doors created by Camping and tell people the real truth about Judgment day.

[ClubV12]

In the Great Disappointment during the 1844 "movement" some folks sold all that they had. When the 2nd coming didn't come to pass they were left destitue and dependant on others for the basics of life (like food). History repeats itself...

Many of those who were left destitute were to embarrased, to ashamed, to proud to repent, to humble themselves. It seems SO easy to type these words, but I can relate to the horror they felt, the highest imaginable shame, the utter very real helplessness as they were forced to look to others for their continued existence. Along with that "box of food", having to endure the subtle or even pronounced criticism of how foolish they had been. As if life wasn't hard enough already. Souls were lost forever, and how immeasurably sad must have been those days in heaven as the after ramifications played out. Pride, humility, perhaps the hardest thing we will ever have to face in our life. My heart breaks for those whose rude awakening is about to take place.

[Flyboy]

Agreed. Very sad indeed to think of them waking up on the 22nd, still here.

Btw, here in China we are 12 hours ahead of EST, I will keep y'all posted if any early raptures happen here.

[Flyboy]

Question. Harold Camping, if his life were to end on May 22, having led all these people down the path of disappointment, is he better remembered as a good Christian guy who alerted many people to the urgency of the gospel message, or as someone who led a bunch of people down the wrong path? Really what I'm asking is, will he be saved... but I know we can't answer that question. He will be remembered, perhaps, for the response of his followers on May 22. Will this reveal the true spirit of his leading?

Just trying to figure out how God might deal with this guy and whether sorting him out after he's gone would, to some degree, depend on the future choices that his followers would make... reassess and move closer to Christ, or completely reject Him?

[Dr. Rich]

Good question(s). Perhaps Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 might help. Anyone who believes in, practices in and does lie will be thrown in the lake of fire. Therefore knowing the real truth and practicing that must be important to God.

[Dr. Rich]

Oh, and of course if you have read anything about Harold Camping and his ministry you will know that he is nothing but a liar. He has NO CLUE as to what the real truth is.

[fccool]

Dr. Rich, what if you are mistaken... in all sinserity, just like Harold perhaps is mistaken? Would you think it would be a justification for God to fry you alive?

Have some compassion?

[Dr. Rich]

Dr. Rich, what if you are mistaken... in all sinserity, just like Harold perhaps is mistaken? Would you think it would be a justification for God to fry you alive?

Have some compassion?

fccool, there is only ONE single truth. All else are lies/sin. That ONE single truth will be given to the "rest of the servants at the proper time" (Matt. 24:45) and that time has not yet come. As it is right now, I cannot endure evil men (Rev. 2:2) and all lies are evil. God does NOT have any compassion for anyone who refuses to stop practicing lies, repents and seeks the real truth. You will NEVER find anywhere that Jesus said anything about someone being saved by grace!

It would be impossible for the world to end right now because God would be a liar and God and Jesus NEVER lied! The trumpets have not yet even started blowing as found in Rev. 8, so when the Adventists proclaim they are blowing the third angels message they are lying!

Does anyone really want to know the truth? If so, then start practing the truth by seeking the truth. Only those who overcome sin and become righteous will know the truth regarding the prophecy for the end of the World.

[ClubV12]

Again, referrencing the 1844 Great Disappointment. We are told that God held His hand over this issue and ALLOWED it to come to pass. The widely held belief that He was retuning on the given date. Those who were true bible students were not deceived, recognizing the fundamental truth that no man knows the time or the hour. But many other "good christians" prepared for the coming, no doubt some very sincere in their belief. Some acting out of fear. Some making preparation in "good works". Many of those, following the disappoinment itself, were driven not only to their knee's but to their bibles seeking the truth. Trying to understand what happened. Drawing closer to Jesus.

Such is the nature of "trials and tribulation". It can draw us closer, or push us away. It reveals the tares among the wheat, even in your own heart. That WAS a test, allowed by the King of Kings to come to fruition for that time. We will see the same impact again, some will draw closer to Jesus, some will fall away. ALL those who believe in this rapture thing will be put to the test. Scoffers will be hardened in their view, bible students will shrug and note the passing of time as just another day, sincere believers will loose their way and be revealed, some will be driven to their knees and their bible.

Being sincere is NOT enough, many will be sincerely mistaken!!

[Dr. Rich]

Again, referrencing the 1844 Great Disappointment. We are told that God held His hand over this issue and ALLOWED it to come to pass. The widely held belief that He was retuning on the given date. Those who were true bible students were not deceived, recognizing the fundamental truth that no man knows the time or the hour. But many other "good christians" prepared for the coming, no doubt some very sincere in their belief. Some acting out of fear. Some making preparation in "good works". Many of those, following the disappoinment itself, were driven not only to their knee's but to their bibles seeking the truth. Trying to understand what happened. Drawing closer to Jesus.

Such is the nature of "trials and tribulation". It can draw us closer, or push us away. It reveals the tares among the wheat, even in your own heart. That WAS a test, allowed by the King of Kings to come to fruition for that time. We will see the same impact again, some will draw closer to Jesus, some will fall away. ALL those who believe in this rapture thing will be put to the test. Scoffers will be hardened in their view, bible students will shrug and note the passing of time as just another day, sincere believers will loose their way and be revealed, some will be driven to their knees and their bible.

Being sincere is NOT enough, many will be sincerely mistaken!!

One of the lies that I hate the most is that NO MAN can ever know when Jesus is coming back and how it is to be done. Have not you ever read Revelation 1:1? Did not Jesus get the information that HE Himself didn't know about from His own Father? What did Jesus do with NEW information (revelation)? He gave it to an angel to give to John so that John would write it down so that the BOND servants living in the last generation could and would know exactly what Jesus now knew and understood.

Look, if you don't know and believe that you will or everyone can't know the time that Jesus will come, then you MUST be one of the wicked who believes in lies (Dan. 12:10), as it is just that simple! People like Jon Paulien and EGW have done a wonderful job of confusing people into believeing a bunch of lies in regards to Revelation and Daniel's prophecies.

[phkrause]

One of the lies that I hate the most is that NO MAN can ever know when Jesus is coming back and how it is to be done. Have not you ever read Revelation 1:1? Did not Jesus get the information that HE Himself didn't know about from His own Father? What did Jesus do with NEW information (revelation)? He gave it to an angel to give to John so that John would write it down so that the BOND servants living in the last generation could and would know exactly what Jesus now knew and understood.

Look, if you don't know and believe that you will or everyone can't know the time that Jesus will come, then you MUST be one of the wicked who believes in lies (Dan. 12:10), as it is just that simple! People like Jon Paulien and EGW have done a wonderful job of confusing people into believeing a bunch of lies in regards to Revelation and Daniel's prophecies.

So do you have a date for us????? Don't just call others liars and than not put up a date??

[Flyboy]

Good question(s). Perhaps Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 might help. Anyone who believes in, practices in and does lie will be thrown in the lake of fire. Therefore knowing the real truth and practicing that must be important to God.

But this is problematic for many Christians because this guy *is* preaching Jesus. And let's give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does truly love God. He is certainly acting the part of a missionary, following the instructions of Jesus, telling the world, which is probably a lot more than some of us do.

He is wrong. So, where is the line? How wrong can one be and not get thrown into the lake of fire? Can one group spend all their time preaching the Sabbath and forget the real point? Or, can those worshiping on Sunday and believing in the rapture, whenever that may be, still make it? Or, what about those who tear down significant portions of the NT, a collection of writings that Christians everywhere consider the inspired Word of God?

In fact, my guess is no religion has it all correct, so, how is Camping really any different from us when ALL of us rely on our interpretation of the Bible to live our lives? I know, it's a fine line, and I'm not suggesting anything, just offering up food for thought. Heavy stuff, eh?

[Flyboy]

That ONE single truth will be given to the "rest of the servants at the proper time" (Matt. 24:45) and that time has not yet come. As it is right now, I cannot endure evil men (Rev. 2:2) and all lies are evil. God does NOT have any compassion for anyone who refuses to stop practicing lies, repents and seeks the real truth.

Sorry, but must make this query. If the ONE single truth will be given to the servants at a later time, as you point out, then how is it that you can proclaim so surely that everyone is preaching lies and that you are not?

Seems to me that if the truth is not yet revealed (allowing you this assumption) then you are in the same boat with the rest of us and should be a little more compassionate. I reckon men who Jesus cast demons out of would disagree with you about His not having compassion. I guess the thief on the cross would disagree.

[Flyboy]

One of the lies that I hate the most is that NO MAN can ever know when Jesus is coming back and how it is to be done.

Do you think these people are not smart enough to read the same verses that you reference? They put hours and hours, years, of study into this. They DO have Biblical reference which they believe clarifies that the end of time will be revealed in the last day. Have a look at their website, you can find it. They are not stupid people, just perhaps too hopeful (a sin?), and a little gullible (a sin?).