Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 Dr. Waite, Study the following quote: "The three<powers of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus."—Australian Union Conference Record, October 7, 1907. How many persons/powers have pledged themselves be our strength and our efficiency in our new life in Christ? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Waite Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Give me a simple answer to this question: Can you explain how "the third person of the Godhead" could possibly be the same person as the "second person of the Godhead"? Can the first person of the Godhead be the same person as the second person of the Godhead? If not, then how do you think the second and third persons of the Godhead are the same person? Jesus Christ said: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which art in heaven." Matthew 16:17 According to Jesus Christ, could the first person and third person (of the godhead) be the same person? Quote grw
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 God bless! I hope you're having yourself a blessed Sabbath, pk. And the same to all the other members, including our Catholic friends. My house is full of Catholics today-- all wonderful relatives of mine. I love them all. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 Jesus Christ said: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which art in heaven." Matthew 16:17 According to Jesus Christ, could the first person of the heavenly trio spoken about by EGW also be the same person as the third person? NO. The Father sent the Spirit to the earth after Christ ascended to heaven. The Father did not send Himself to the earth. Nor did the Son send Himself to the earth after the Son ascended to heaven. "There are three living persons in the heavenly trio." Trio=three=trinity The Holy Spirit is a living person. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted July 9, 2011 Members Posted July 9, 2011 God bless! I hope you're having yourself a blessed Sabbath, pk. And the same to all the other members, including our Catholic friends. My house is full of Catholics today-- all wonderful relatives of mine. I love them all. Yes I did have, or am still having a great Sabbath. I do pray and hope that yours is also being blessed. It does seem it is, with family and all. Just got back a little while ago from a after church potluck. Lots of yummy, yummy food. :) Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Dr. Waite Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite Jesus Christ said: "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which art in heaven." Matthew 16:17 According to Jesus Christ, could the first person of the heavenly trio spoken about by EGW also be the same person as the third person? NO. Then, why did Jesus Christ, who never spoke a lie, state "Father" and not "holy spirit"? Jesus Christ obviously taught that there is a part of the "Father" that is NOT "flesh and blood". Quote grw
Pastor_Chick Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 JOHN: Why cannot you just give me a simple answer? Who is the writer of 1 Cor 3:17 referring to when he uses the name "Lord" in this verse? What is your interpretation? Anyone else want to comment on this? ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor. 12:3) Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:17, 18; NASB) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17) Quote Chick
Dr. Waite Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite JOHN: Why cannot you just give me a simple answer? Who is the writer of 1 Cor 3:17 referring to when he uses the name "Lord" in this verse? What is your interpretation? Anyone else want to comment on this? ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor. 12:3) Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:17, 18; NASB) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor. 6:17) My bible says: "The Lord in that spirit" NOT "the spirit" So we have an answer in regard to who the "Lord" is. So, next question is who does the writer refer to as "that spirit"? Quote grw
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 Study carefully the following quotes: Quote: "We are to co-operate with>the three< highest powers in heaven,the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God." Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, 51 and (Evangelism, 617). NOTE: We are to cooperate with the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit will work through us, along with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit will make us workers together with God. None of this can be said of a non-person. Therefore the Holy Spirit must be a person. Quote: The eternal heavenly dignitaries God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin." Manuscript 145, 1901. (Evangelism, 616). NOTE: The heavenly dignitaries, God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are eternal, i.e, everlasting, without beginning and without end. All three of these living persons arm the disciples with more than mortal energy. All three would advance with the disiples to the work and convince the world of sin. Notice it doesn't say two would do it but ALL THREE. Notice that in the above "God" refers to the Father, not because He alone is God but for the sake of distinguishing between the three persons. She also refers in other passages to the Son as God and to the Holy Spirit as God. So do not let this confuse you. Similarly, when I say that "God spoke to Christ," I do not mean that Christ is not God. Quote: "The work of salvation is not a small matter, but so vast that the highest authorities are taken hold of by the expressed faith of the human agent. The eternal Godhead the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghostis involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent." Upward Look, 148. NOTE: Again the Godhead-- consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-- is eternal. What is eternal doesn't change. Ellen White says that these three living persons are "involved in the action required to make assurance to" believers. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Waite Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 John: Ellen G. White was not the writer of 2 Cor. 3:17. Also, Ellen G. White is not the writer of Matthew 16:17 Obviously, you cannot answer the questions I have submitted. Maybe someone else can give me an answer? Quote grw
Parade Orange Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 JOHN317 thanku for fleshing out those few statements! i agree i dont understand why people miss it JESUS called the HOLY SPIRIT 'HE' a male gender and a person or an ENTITY a BEING we call babys 'IT' untill we find out the gender when born [back in the day] JESUS could have called the SPIRIT 'IT' ...a thing -some nebulus object that cant be defined it makes me think that some peeps dont want to see it its right there in black and white we dont understand what it is to be an eternal being with cosmic ultimate power! so why do we pretend we do? its ludicris! why do ignorant people think they can define GOD as only one thing [or two if push comes to shove]? we go by our fallen finite intellect! JESUS WORDS ARE CLEAR PAULS WORDS ARE CLEAR DAVIDS WORDS ARE CLEAR so why do people ignore plain statements of WHO JESUS is? why do people ignore plain statements of WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT is? and BTW im a vegan! not cause of adventism but cause of health Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Pastor_Chick Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 John:Ellen G. White was not the writer of 2 Cor. 3:17. Also, Ellen G. White is not the writer of Matthew 16:17 Obviously, you cannot answer the questions I have submitted. Maybe someone else can give me an answer? God has a people who will preserve their fidelity to his truth, who will make the Bible, and the Bible alone, their rule of faith and doctrine, (ST 02-19-94) Why should not the Seventh-day Adventist and Seventh-day Baptist harmonize? Why not co-operate? Why not unite in the work and become one without compromising any principle of truth, and without damage to any interest worth preserving? Both are in defense of the law of God. The Bible and the Bible alone is to be the rule of our faith, the sole bond of our union, and they who evade the truth of the Bible will not desire more intimate relationship. (SSW 10-01-86) Quote Chick
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 Then, why did Jesus Christ, who never spoke a lie, state "Father" and not "holy spirit"? Jesus Christ obviously taught that there is a part of the "Father" that is NOT "flesh and blood". In Matthew 16: 17,--- "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which art in heaven"-- the Father is said to have personally revealed this truth to Peter. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Waite Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 John: Thank you for your straight and truthful answer. Quote grw
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 John:Ellen G. White was not the writer of 2 Cor. 3:17. Also, Ellen G. White is not the writer of Matthew 16:17 Obviously, you cannot answer the questions I have submitted. Maybe someone else can give me an answer? Of course she did not write those passages of Scripture. I did answer your questions about those verses. Please see the posts above. However, if you like, I can say more. Ask me any questions you like. I will do my best to answer them straightforwardly. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BobRyan Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 What Ellen White said about the eternal Godhead: 3 Holiest Beings 3 Living Persons 3 Eternal Heavenly Dignitaries 3 Highest Powers 3 Great Worthies 3 Divine Agencies 3 Distinct Eternal Persons 3 Distinct Personalities 3-fold Name of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit Heavenly Trio All true. Ellen White was United Methodist - and never ceased to be anything but Trinitarian. James White on the other hand - may never have been Trinitarian - starting with his "Connection" days. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 God has a people who will preserve their fidelity to his truth, who will make the Bible, and the Bible alone, their rule of faith and doctrine, (ST 02-19-94) The fact that the Bible and the Bible alone is our rule of faith and doctrine does not mean that Seventh-day Adventists should not study and know the writings of Ellen White. She also is an authority. The reason for this discussion thread is in order for people to study and decide what Ellen White believed and taught on the topic. It is not for the purpose of replacing the Bible with Ellen White. God raised up His prophet among us so that we would be without excuse, for Ellen White wrote in our modern English language that needs no translation. She and the Bible are in perfect harmony on the subject of the Godhead. She says clearly that "there are three living persons in the heavenly trio." If someone does not understand that sentence, it is because they don't want to understand it. Obviously the Holy Spirit is a living person, as much of a person as the other two persons in that heavenly trio. WHO ARE THE THREEE LIVING PERSONS IN THE HEAVENLY TRIO? Please name them. The Bible also names them in Matt. 28: 19; 3: 16-17; 2 Cor. 13: 14; etc. Notice that Matt. 28: 19 names them in such a way that it is impossible for them to be one and the same person. Nor can they be two persons. The rule of Greek grammar makes it impossible for there to be less than 3 distinct persons in that sentence. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 My bible says: "The Lord in that spirit" NOT "the spirit" So we have an answer in regard to who the "Lord" is. So, next question is who does the writer refer to as "that spirit"? Dr. Waite, the original Greek is "the Spirit," [Gk to pneuma], not "THAT Spirit." "The" is a definite article, whereas "that" is a demonstrative pronoun." The NKJV, NASB, NIV, NRSV, the ESV all translate it correctly. As I said in my previous post, "the Lord" could refer to Christ or to Yahweh [Lord] of the Old Testament. Since Christ is often called Yahweh in the Old Testament, it doesn't really matter which of these the writer has in mind. It applies equally well to both. Can you parse the clause? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor. 12:3) If Christ and the Holy Spirit are one and same person, the above sentence would mean that no one can say Jesus is Lord except by Christ Jesus. Is this what Paul was inspired to say? I seriously doubt it. John 16: 14 says that the Holy Spirit will glorify Christ. If they are one and the same person, it would mean that the Holy Spirit is glorifying Himself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Moderators Posted July 9, 2011 :-) Thanks, friend. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 JOHN317 thanku for fleshing out those few statements! i agree i dont understand why people miss it JESUS called the HOLY SPIRIT 'HE' a male gender and a person or an ENTITY a BEING we call babys 'IT' untill we find out the gender when born [back in the day] JESUS could have called the SPIRIT 'IT' ...a thing -some nebulus object that cant be defined it makes me think that some peeps dont want to see it its right there in black and white we dont understand what it is to be an eternal being with cosmic ultimate power! so why do we pretend we do? its ludicris! why do ignorant people think they can define GOD as only one thing [or two if push comes to shove]? we go by our fallen finite intellect! JESUS WORDS ARE CLEAR PAULS WORDS ARE CLEAR DAVIDS WORDS ARE CLEAR so why do people ignore plain statements of WHO JESUS is? why do people ignore plain statements of WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT is? and BTW im a vegan! not cause of adventism but cause of health Sure glad that John317 was standing there when Jesus called the Holy Spirit "he"! This is totally nuts! You and I don't have the original words written by John do we? I can show you where ALL PEOPLE, both male and female were called "MEN", so please get off your soapbox! Perhaps you need to sink your teeth into some real meat! Quote
Members phkrause Posted July 9, 2011 Members Posted July 9, 2011 Originally Posted By: Parade Orange JOHN317 thanku for fleshing out those few statements! i agree i dont understand why people miss it JESUS called the HOLY SPIRIT 'HE' a male gender and a person or an ENTITY a BEING we call babys 'IT' untill we find out the gender when born [back in the day] JESUS could have called the SPIRIT 'IT' ...a thing -some nebulus object that cant be defined it makes me think that some peeps dont want to see it its right there in black and white we dont understand what it is to be an eternal being with cosmic ultimate power! so why do we pretend we do? its ludicris! why do ignorant people think they can define GOD as only one thing [or two if push comes to shove]? we go by our fallen finite intellect! JESUS WORDS ARE CLEAR PAULS WORDS ARE CLEAR DAVIDS WORDS ARE CLEAR so why do people ignore plain statements of WHO JESUS is? why do people ignore plain statements of WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT is? and BTW im a vegan! not cause of adventism but cause of health Sure glad that John317 was standing there when Jesus called the Holy Spirit "he"! This is totally nuts! You and I don't have the original words written by John do we? I can show you where ALL PEOPLE, both male and female were called "MEN", so please get off your soapbox! Perhaps you need to sink your teeth into some real meat! So I'm guessing than that you were there? Right? Not! So you really don't know either, but yet you tell others that they don't have the slightest idea what was said. I'm now trying to decide who is on the higher horse! You or anyone else of your choosing. Sorry but others have a right to there opinions just like you do. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Parade Orange Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 was standing there when JESUS called HOLY SPIRIT 'HE'? are u kidding me with that logic? was i standing there when JESUS said I AM WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE? noooooooooooooooooooooo u are not serious? is that how u roll? and if thats the crux of your point i would be delighted if THE HOLY SPIRIT was a woman in the GOD FAMILY HE may mean man or woman ? i have no problem with that HE means PERSON is the point [scroll up to former post] Howbeit when SHE, the Spirit of truth, is come, SHE will guide you into all truth: for SHE shall not speak of HERself; but whatsoever SHE shall hear, that shall SHE speak: and SHE will shew you things to come. JOHN 16:13 that would still scream with a soprano voice TRINITY heaven needs a women's touch anyway Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
Parade Orange Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 BTW i must confess to something here i read this thread in the beginning more or less then got a lil annoyed/frightened/giddy/bored/fatigued/excited/ and enchanted so i skipped it and now i see we have 12 pages now! so i maybe a lil ignorant of who said what and what was said to who so on that framework u can address me Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.
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