A Revived Roman Empire?

[Dr. Rich]

Stephen says.

"Many have been mislead to think that they must affiliate..."

I have met few that believe that within the SDA church. It is commonly accepted that salvation is an individual matter and the church affiliation guarentees nothing in that regard. So WHY does God have a church? In the counsel of many we find truth and encourage one another along the way. Being part of a body of believers is Gods way of reaching man kind. All of heaven is organized and orderly, no one angel stands alone.

God does not work by one man alone, apart from the body of believers. When you stand alone, apart from the brethren, it is certain your theology will be confused. Thus confusion reigns in the theology you are presenting here, Stephen.

For those who have been given great light, and rejected it, the darkness will also be very great. As you have had knowledge of Sister White and rejected her counsel, you are in a very dark place.

The corporate group that one must belong to is the Kingdom of Heaven, but each person has a choice to do what it takes to belong to the KOH. You too Club. You have been given 'light' by others and you have refused to even consider it because of what is prophecied in Rev. 2:18-26.

[ClubV12]

I consider the "lesser light" along with the "greater light" Dr. Rich, the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Those that do not hold to these two standards have no light.

[Truth Files]

The Lord's church is composed of those who truly believe and follow Him regardless of one's affiliation

Many organizations and movements of the past and present are apostate to the brim and should be avoided for many reasons

It is the Lord who reveals His prophetic word to the believer and not another .... one either has it or they do not .... and anyone can achieve a high level of knowledge and understanding if they approach Him by His requirements

But, many false teachers and false prophets have and do take advantage for self serving gain

There are no valid prophets except for the Bible prophets and the Lord's Word is finished .... all who claim to be prophets outside of this scope are false prophets and you can evaluate this by their failures [2Peter 1:16-21; Revelation 22:18-19]

And many have come who claim to be christian for the direct purpose of deceiving others [Matthew 24:4-5; 2Peter 2; 3; 2Timothy 3; 4]

How does one know if they are following falsehood?

Seek the Lord's guidance and study thy self approved .... there is no other way .... and the process takes time and effort

Better to know and believe a little truth that to know and believe a truck load of deception

The bottom line is one's relationship with Jesus Christ .... nothing else matters if this is not established first and foremost

And understanding all that there is to know about Bible prophecy is not a requirement for salvation by the way

[Musicman1228]

I consider the "lesser light" along with the "greater light" Dr. Rich, the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Those that do not hold to these two standards have no light.

Is Truth singular and absolute? If it is (and I believe it is) then there can be only one standard of truth, not multiple standards. Saying that there are more than one standard for Truth is an oxymoron.

IF this is true the which of the two standards that you have listed is the one, single source of ALL Truth?

[ClubV12]

How many prophets were there in the bible MM? Many, of course. Ellen White is just another in a long list, all perfectly united in their presentation. And MORE will come after her! The Lord is not done directing, leading, His people. New light will be in perfect harmony with old light. For the most part, new light IS old light with enhanced understanding. NOT changed understanding, enhanced and building on that which was previously presented.

[Musicman1228]

How many prophets were there in the bible MM? Many, of course. Ellen White is just another in a long list, all perfectly united in their presentation. And MORE will come after her! The Lord is not done directing, leading, His people. New light will be in perfect harmony with old light. For the most part, new light IS old light with enhanced understanding. NOT changed understanding, enhanced and building on that which was previously presented.

I disagree that EGW is 'just another' in a long list of true prophets of God, and also that there will be more that come after her.

Jesus gave all of the prophecy we need to be able to not only know what is going to happen during the appointed time of the end, but also the WHEN. He did this through Daniel, through His own prophecies, and through John in Revelation. Jesus is God and His words are perfect and complete in information and scope. There will be NO other prophets because Jesus did not speak of the appearance of additional true prophets of His during the end of time, He only spoke of the appearance of FALSE prophets (John 24:4,5,11 etc.). He could have done this quite easily but He didn't. Therefore, anyone that claims to be an prophet (or anyone makes that claim for someone else) is by default a false prophet and is teaching lies. Jesus either finished His work with His disciples that knew Him while He was here on earth or He didn't. If He didn't then He lied about it because He declared His work to be finished.

Of course, you are free to hold that anyone you like is a prophet of God, and accept their word as valid. But please don't tell me that because you choose to do this that I must as well or I am not a follower of Jesus or an SDA. You may need the extra help (for what it's worth) but I don't. The only thing I will be is what Jesus said to be in Rev. 12:17; ". . . those who keep the Commandments of God, and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ".

[Dr. Rich]

AMEN!

[John317]

The only thing I will be is what Jesus said to be in Rev. 12:17; ". . . those who keep the Commandments of God, and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ".

Rev. 19: 10 defines the "testimony of Jesus Christ" as "the Spirit of prophecy."

19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Compare:

22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Notice that "thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus" (v. 10) are said to be "thy brethren the prophets (v.9)"

When you take into account this evidence, it is clear that one of the marks of the people who keep the commandments of God (Rev. 17: 12) is that they have among them the manifestation of the Spirit that speaks forth in prophetic utterances.

[John317]

...Jesus gave all of the prophecy we need to be able to not only know what is going to happen during the appointed time of the end, but also the WHEN. He did this through Daniel, through His own prophecies, and through John in Revelation. Jesus is God and His words are perfect and complete in information and scope. There will be NO other prophets because Jesus did not speak of the appearance of additional true prophets of His during the end of time, He only spoke of the appearance of FALSE prophets (John 24:4,5,11 etc.). He could have done this quite easily but He didn't. Therefore, anyone that claims to be an prophet (or anyone makes that claim for someone else) is by default a false prophet and is teaching lies.

How can you make this claim and at the same time quote verses in the book of Revelation that prove that the end-time people of God will have the Spirit of prophecy?

The same Jesus who inspired John the Beloved inspired Ellen White. If Christ didn't tell everything to his disciples in 31 AD, you can't possibly be sure that Christ told John in 100 AD everything He has for His Church.

Also, if all the prophets after John would be false, why didn't God simply reveal to the church that they should reject ALL prophets?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Jesus either finished His work with His disciples that knew Him while He was here on earth or He didn't. If He didn't then He lied about it because He declared His work to be finished.

There is absolutely no connection between Christ's words, "It is finished," and God's use of prophecy in communicating to His church. This is proved by the fact that Christ spoke through prophets after His death and resurrection.

If saying "It is finished" is a reference to the end of prophets, God wouldn't have inspired the prophet John about 70 years later.

Jesus' words, "It is finished," refer to Christ's sacrifice. See the context in John 19: 13. He uttered the words just before he died. His work of being the Lamb of God was completed at that point.

Besides, the books of Acts, Ephesians, and 1 Corinthians all speak of genuine prophetic gifts in the church.

I know you reject all of those inspired books but your rejection of them speaks for itself.

Your rejection of them and your rejection of most of the rest of the New Testament is proof that your message is itself false on its face.

[Dr. Rich]

John317, I can't believe you wrote what you did. The "Spirit of Prophecy" is the Testimony of Jesus! (Rev. 19:10) No more and no less! It is the words of Jesus that He gave that is the Spirit of Prophecy. This totally agrees with what MM wrote.

What Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 28:16-20 proves 100% that you are completely wrong John317! If the disciples had needed anything more, than Jesus' ministry was a complete failure. When Jesus said "It is finished" He meant that His testimony was finished becaue He had not yet died! If Jesus had meant that it was finished at His death, Jesus would have told the disicples that after He had come from the grave.

The ONLY thing that Jesus didn't know and He admitted He didn't know what when He was going to come back, and when Jesus found this out from His Father, He then had John write it down so the bondservants living in the last generation would know.

NEVER did Jesus say that there would be any true prophet again except for the ONE "Elijah" type as found in Matt. 17:11 and Matt. 24:45. That is IT! Case closed!

Since you said you needed more, then it is YOU who needs to prove that Jesus' ministry was a failure. What was "IT" that Jesus did not give with His ministry that you think we now need?

[Musicman1228]

John,

Your concept of the Spirit of Prophecy is that it is the work of EGWhite. After all she has been named in Adventism just that. The problem is that the text says it is the words of Jesus that are 'The Spirit of Prophecy'. It does not say another prophet or another apostle. So my thoughts as previously defined are consistent with Scripture; since Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy, and prophecy has already been covered in Daniel, Revelation (which Jesus gave them), and the words of Jesus there is not now and will never be a need for another prophet to come along an give us more information about prophecy because we don't need any other information than that which we already have.

Now there will be another person that comes along and will be able to explain the prophecies we now have perfectly and clearly, with no ambiguity-and that person will be The Faithful and Wise Bondservant as spoken of by Jesus in a prophecy in Matt. 24:45-51. That person will be teaching his fellow bondservants the truth about prophecy and salvation at the time Jesus comes as a Thief in the night, and will be richly rewarded by his Master for doing so. He is the Elijah to come.Don't you think we should be looking for this person rather than worrying about someone that has been dead over 100 years and to whom just (as with Daniel) the meaning of prophecy had not been revealed simply because she was not living during the time of the end?

[Truth Files]

There are no scriptures in the N.T. that tell of any named prophets other than those of the O.T. .... the only discussion in the N.T. is about warning against false prophets and false teachers

Anyone who has or does claim to be a prophet of the Lord apart from the Bible prophets is a false prophet

They are easily detected by their cunningly devised fables and failures

Here are a few: Mohammed, Isaac Newton; Joseph smith, Ellen G. White, Charles Russell, William Branham, George Warnock, Herbert W. Armstrong, Arnold Murray, David Eells; Paul Cain; Peter Wagner; Mike Bickel; Todd Bentely; Harold Camping .... the list is long

2Peter

1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[Musicman1228]

John said, "There is absolutely no connection between Christ's words, "It is finished," and God's use of prophecy in communicating to His church. This is proved by the fact that Christ spoke through prophets after His death and resurrection".

John317,

Jesus gave John the prophecy in Revelation, AND THAT WAS IT! There is no Scriptural evidence that Jesus was going to give or did give prophecy to anyone after that. That is why Jesus warned specifically against FALSE prophets, and did not say He would deliver new prophets to the Kingdom of Heaven. You are trying to make a case using the phrase "Thy brethren the prophets" and again applying your personal interpretation (and that of the SDA church) to it. 'Prophets" are not just people to whom God reveals new truth and/or future events. 'Prophets' are also those that understand the meaning of prophecy that has already been given. This is what the Schools of the Prophets was for during the period of the kings of Israel. The School did not train these people to be conduits of God because God picks His own conduits. They were being trained in how to interpret prophecy, sort of like Andrew U but with greater success.

There will be people like this at the end of time that take the prophecies that have already been given and make them plain to the people who are interested.

I still and will always maintain that Jesus finished His work of prophecy with John and the Revelation. Feel free to believe otherwise.

[Truth Files]

"I still and will always maintain that Jesus finished His work of prophecy with John and the Revelation"

>Stick with it Music .... you are right with no doubt

>And keep standing up for this truth .... many are lost behind the walls of deception brought on by false prophets and false teachers who can and do lead them to their own destruction

[cheddar]

"I still and will always maintain that Jesus finished His work of prophecy with John and the Revelation"

>Stick with it Music .... you are right with no doubt

>And keep standing up for this truth .... many are lost behind the walls of deception brought on by false prophets and false teachers who can and do lead them to their own destruction

[jasd]

Re the terminus that begins the 70-times prophecy – as set forth in

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Note, especially – the condition that triggers the prophecy:

from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

It is impossible to find – in either Holy Writ or in historical fact – an order or commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until such time as it was given unto Nehemiah to ‘build’ Jerusalem, the decree of Ezra 6 notwithstanding – which addressed only the rebuilding and/or the refurbishment of the Temple.

Therefore, 457 BC is a premature and wrested reckoning – or outright falsity.

It was not until 445 BC that the ‘commandment’ to restore the city proper was issued; hence, the prophecy begins in 445 BC (Persia had just lost a major naval engagement with Greece and was forced to abandon their ports in the Mediterranean – necessitating the refurbishment of Jerusalem to serve as a forward post for the Empire) – ending with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ – and leaving a final week which will find its fulfillment when both the Northern and the Southern Kingdoms will be in view – together, per the prayer of Daniel.

One stick – Judah and Ephraim.

It is impossible to find any portion of Writ to sustain or validate a forwarding of 457 BC as reflecting prophecy – never mind the fact that the 457 BC dogma was first asserted far and away before the ‘end of time’ (Dan 12:4) –

“many shall run to and fro, and knowledge will be increased” – when thence the book of Daniel would be unsealed for exposition.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Truth Files

"I still and will always maintain that Jesus finished His work of prophecy with John and the Revelation"

>Stick with it Music .... you are right with no doubt

>And keep standing up for this truth .... many are lost behind the walls of deception brought on by false prophets and false teachers who can and do lead them to their own destruction

Quote:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: Acts 2:17-20

This passage says that there will surely be prophets in the last days.

Cheddar,

Here is an example of a prophecy of the end time that is specifically for Israel, and does not apply to the current Kingdom of Heaven. This prophecy is actually found in Joel 2:28-32 and was a prophecy about what would occur in Israel IF they were obedient to the will of God. Israel WAS NOT obedient, did not fulfill what God had asked them to do in Dan. 9:24 so at the end of the 490 years in this very prophecy Israel became like any other nation of the world, and was no longer God's Kingdom of Heaven. Therefore, that is one of the prophecies that will never happen because other conditional prophecies about the end time for Israel were not fulfilled. There are a lot of these in the OT prophecies that have been replaced by prophecies in both Daniel and Revelation that are only for the Kingdom of Heaven at the 'appointed time of the end'.

Incidentally, if you look closely at the prophecy in Joel and how Peter quoted it in Acts 2 you will see that he either accidentally or deliberately change some of the words to make the meaning of the ancient prophecy fit the current situation in which he found himself. In other words he misquoted prophecy to serve his own purpose. Does that sound like something that God would ask one of his disciples to do?

[ClubV12]

How did the date change from 1843 to 1844?

Simple actually, the bible was accurate, man's reckoning was off. The decree to rebuild, BC 457 (a solid date, no problem there), started in the MIDDLE of a year!

Therefore, the end date, 2,300 years later also had to end in the MIDDLE of a year. They lost a few months at the beginning and lost a few months on the end. Which put their calculated time at 1843. Once Snow realized the fundamental mistake in math, the accounting error was corrected to arrive at 1844. Further investigation, after 1843, enabled Snow to come to the exact date, October 22, 1844. Which William Miller concured was correct. This was not a "one man" operation, there were actually many men involved with this, Miller was the prominent figure. The math on this is solid as a rock, there is no question the various dates line up with known historical events along the way, for over 2,000 years. It's quite remarkable from a history stand point alone.

Miller set NO dates beyond 1844, ever. Popular opinion took over from there and many other people started setting all kinds of dates. But the early believers, who were disappointed but not shaken out, were sure of their foundation, 1844, and ignored any date setting after that.

[jasd]

Re: day/year formula in prophecy...

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin

Why did Gd elect to write 'those' words when, being the linguist He obviously is, He might have simply written, to effect, “Listen-up, goodfella, tonight you will, justifiably, lose both your life and the kingdom”, or some other equally well-expressed sentiment.

Were Gd to have written, “Mene, Tekel, Upharsin”, with an implicit meaning in the Aramaic, ‘number(ed), weigh(ed), division(s)’, --would that have sufficed? --without the redundant "Mene"? to convey

what Gd intended that it should convey - to both Belshazzar and - to those for whom the book of Daniel would eventually be unsealed? In other words,

how is the intent of the message better served by repeating “Number(ed), Number(ed),…”? that is, “Mene, Mene,…”? unless…

Aramaic

Mene

Mene

Tekel

Upharsin

Hebrew

Minah = 1000 gerahs

Minah = 1000 gerahs

Shekel = 20 gerahs -- (shekel, a fiftieth part of a thousand)

Peres = 500 gerahs -- (peres, a half part of a thousand)

_______________________________

'seven times' = 2520, which is equivalent to the 'seven-times curse' of Leviticus 26.

The ‘coinage’ in the two columns above and the redundancy of "Mene" (without which there would have been only a configuration, in the Hebrew, of 1520 - best defined as meaningless) suggests to me the use of a form [Hebrew] within a form [Aramaic] by Gd; its meaning readily apparent to Daniel. Also,

given what I have suggested in the above, Gd apparently, took some care in composing the message, which was written on the wall at the feast of Belshazzar… Otherwise,

if Gd had employed straightforward language, much of what Gd meant concealed (per Dan 12:4 …shut up the words, and seal the book…) should have been readily understood, without the need of sending for Daniel to interpret the writing.

(It might be of interest to those unawares, that the Babylonians used a sexagesimal number system, that is, their base [number] was 60; whereas, we tend use a decimal system. That may have been why

they could not decipher the ‘numbers’, which appeared on the wall) Anyway,

note that Belshazzar asked Daniel for an interpretation -- not a translation. Daniel acceded and provided Belshazzar with the sense of the writing. That being said,

Daniel interpreted (paraphrased) the writing utilizing, according to the KJV, twenty-nine words where there had been but four written upon the wall. Though we have had the ‘sense’ of the writing on the wall per Daniel 5:25-28, we’ve really not had what might be a literal translation (or transliteration) of the writing on the wall…

Is the meaning of Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin/Peres important?

Indeed, it tends to substantiate a day/year formula re certain prophecies...

[jasd]

I repeat the following - as it is impossible for the honest expositor to gainsay... To cling to obvious error is simple fancy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Note, especially – the condition that triggers the prophecy:

from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

It is impossible to find – in either Holy Writ or in historical fact – an order or commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until such time as it was given unto Nehemiah to ‘build’ Jerusalem, the decree of Ezra 6 notwithstanding – which addressed only the rebuilding and/or the refurbishment of the Temple.

Therefore, 457 BC is a premature and wrested reckoning – or outright falsity.

[cheddar]

Joel chapter 2 is definitely talking about the last days!

Whenever the day of the Lord is mentioned - it is a reference to the last days.

The flaming horses and riders are the same ones that are described in Rev. 9

The 5th trumpet is when Satan and his angels are released and the 6th trumpet is when Jesus's angels are released.

If we can imagine thousands of flaming angels flying thru the skys, we can begin to understand how terrifying those days will be.

Elisha was given a small glimpse of this when Elijah was taken up to heaven - the last generation will be given a much larger glimpse.

Quote:

Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Luke 21:26

[Musicman1228]

jasd said, "It is impossible to find – in either Holy Writ or in historical fact – an order or commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until such time as it was given unto Nehemiah to ‘build’ Jerusalem, the decree of Ezra 6 notwithstanding – which addressed only the rebuilding and/or the refurbishment of the Temple.

Therefore, 457 BC is a premature and wrested reckoning – or outright falsity."

Please recheck your reading of the decree and the facts found therein. At the time of the decree of 457 BC the Temple had already been completed. We see in the decree (Ezra 7:12-26) that money for furnishings and decorations were to be supplied, a Priesthood re-established, and most importantly magistrates and judges were to be appointed. This latter indicates that the decree also granted national authority to Israel to rule themselves.

Ezra finishes with praise to God for having Artaxerxes do all these things:

Blessed be the LORD, the God of our fathers, who put such a thing as this into the heart of the king, to beautify the house of the LORD that is in Jerusalem, Ezra 7:27.

This does not speak of the building of the Temple but of 'beautifying' it.

457 BC IS the correct starting date for the 70 weeks prophecy in Dan. 24. It is in the middle of the final week of this time period (the Wednesday year of 30 AD) that Jesus was crucified at Passover, just as the prophecy in Daniel foretold. The 490 years ended in 33 AD without Israel ever coming back to God, and therefore God took the Kingdom away from them to much later give it to another people who would bear the fruit of the Kingdom (Matt. 21:43).

When God removed Israel as His Kingdom He also sealed up any prophecies of the end time for Israel that had not yet been fulfilled, because now that Israel was no longer His Kingdom they would NEVER be fulfilled, which is why they were sealed.

[John317]

And by the Way the 2300 evenings and mornings are 1150 24 hour days ..... not 2300 years [Daniel 8:14; 8:26]

This time frame is part of the second 1260 days of the future 70th week decreed for national Israel

Please show how this is true based on clear Bible evidence.

Do you believe the 1150 days were fufilled in the past?

[John317]

...Since you said you needed more, then it is YOU who needs to prove that Jesus' ministry was a failure. What was "IT" that Jesus did not give with His ministry that you think we now need?

It's absurd to assume that if the gift of prophecy continues, Christ's ministry was a failure. There's nothing in the Bible which teaches this. Christ never said that all prophecy will cease after His death. He obviously needed another prophet almost 70 years after His ascension. And the Bible teaches that the gift of prophecy is for the "equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ until we come into the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive..." (Ephesians 4: 11-16; cf 1 Cor. 12: 10.)

There is absolutely nothing in Christ's teaching while on earth that contradicts Eph. 4: 11-16. You are proving once again that you reject 2/3 of the New Testament, which is why you teach so many false doctrines. When people reject most of the New Testament, they become like someone trying to take a canoe upstream using only one paddle. It won't work. As long as you do this, and refuse to accept all of God's special revelation, you will continue to go around in vicious circles and to teach blasphemies such as that it was Satan rather than the Holy Spirit who inspired the disciples on the Day of Pentecost.

[John317]

"I still and will always maintain that Jesus finished His work of prophecy with John and the Revelation"

>Stick with it Music .... you are right with no doubt

The following Scripture says that Christ intended the gift of prophecy to be in the church after His death and resurrection:

2 Thess. 5: 20, 21 teaches us:

5:20 Despise not prophesyings.

5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Ephesians 4: 11-16:

4:11 And he [Christ] gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.